Main > Everything Else

UPDATE: Started Kick-boxing MMA yesterday

<< < (11/18) > >>

ChadTower:

That's pretty sweet.  As with anything else in MA, if you wanna do it, you gotta pay through the nose.

Xiaou2:
Well, I have to put in my 2 cents   heh

 On Fight Science,  Those results were not very accurate to describe relative
arts forces.

 For one reason, the chinese guy was short and not hugely bulked.  Whereas the
boxer was much bigger, taller, bulkier.   

 The chinese guy threw a 'short range punch'  from about only 7" back...  whereas
the boxer threw a full-cockback strike.   

 The Kungfu guys power supposed was arroung 600lbs of  force.  The boxers 1000.
However, what would have happened should the KungFu guy been as big as the
boxer in mass?  My guess is that the Kungfu Strike would have been superior
if not the same as the boxers strike.    One thing about short range power,
is that is more usefull and less likely to be blocked,  because its not
"Telegraphic".  You cant see it comming like you can with some wind-up
swing motion.

 The ninjitsu guys 'Dim Mak' strike is also a close range strike, and they failed to mention the
forces at work.  They simply stated that the forces were that of a 35mph car
crash.    KungFu also has Dim Mak, tho maybe this guy didnt do it, or they chose
to only show the ninjitsu guys version.   

 ***

 As for Shaolin Goju..  I did a search quickly.   It looks like BS to me.   For one,
Shaolin is from China.   The site that showcased this style.. was Japanese!
(Karate)   

 From www.gallopskarate.com/about_shinjimasu.html

Brief Timeline of Events
1890    Kanryo Higaonna introduces Naha-Te and a breathing exercise called Sanhin
1927    Chojun Miyagi founds Goju Ryu Karate
1930    Gogen Yamaguchi establishes Japanese Goju Ryu headquarters in Tokyo
1953    Shaolin Goju is founded by Grandmaster Charles Dixon
1959    Peter Urban introduces Goju Ryu to the United States
1960    Anthony Mirakian brings Okinawan Goju Ryu(Meibukan) to the United States
1973    Ron Van Clef forms Chinese Goju
 
 To me, This is sad.   The art was formed at 1973,  by a non asian... whos credentials
in ANY system cant seem to be found.    Most likely a westerner, who tried to
learn some chinese are overseas.. and was most likely, given the dillluted
and incorrect versions of the Real techniques.  Chinese were not big on
sharing thier secrets to forigners.   If forced, or were trying to be nice,
they gave out litteral BS.  Some functional stuff, and some that was all
wrong.  And missing the very potent  'Keys'  to making things
powerfull and effective.

  In fact, I believe much of Karate was formed by this method.  Japenese
trying to watch and learn KungFu stylist, and figure out what they were
doing...  OR,  were actually taught (forced), and gave out the BS. 
As Karate is super watered down BS compared to Any version of
KungFu.

 ***

 Next, I will comment on your Schools (kickboxing) training methods...

 To throw a person into sparring the first day..  seems ultra BS.

 That lacks any responsibility at all.  Its mindless, and shows poor
skill levels in teaching and depth of knowledge.  A student needs
a proper foundation before going into battle mode.  Id be willing
to bet that there are countless injuries that occur when newbies
arrive.  Some of these poor guys will walk away, try to heal,
and never return.

 That and the way thay they conditioned is not good.    Its better
to 'gradually' condition rather than to just smash limbs.
(thats later)

 Improper conditioning can be a real problem.  Can cause much more pain
and complications as the bone may get built up unevenly.

 ***

 BJJ is good for certain situations..  however, not in many real
fights.    For example,  for multple attackers, it will fail very
quickly.  As you cant roll on the ground with one guy when the
others will be  there stomping thier feet into your head.

 It also lacks a 'Safe'  and skilled entry system.   It goes on
the principle that you should be able to dive in past a
strike.     The problem is, is that a human strike can move
faster than a Cobra strike (Fight Science)  at something like
40 feet per second.   Basically, its a split second.

 However, to move your entire body and dive at them
requires much longer than a split second.  As you cant
accelerate that much mass that quickly.  It opens the
possibility that youll take a Serious blow to the head or
neck.. which can be severe to fatal.

 ***

  For a workout, getting in shape and losing weight.. I think
boxing would probably be better.   Less sensless injuries overall,
and maybe more usefull skills learned.

 However, I personally chose to learn  Wing Chun.   A
Chinese close range combat system.   It uses an
advanced system of developement that allows one
to have a 'Safe' entry.   

 Some big Features in the style:

- Combination of Soft and Hard techniques, that you adjust on the fly.
   (able to defeat larger stronger people by using soft techniques)

- Use of "Dual hand" Simultainious techniques. 
Can Even attack with 3 limbs at once.
 (IE:  One hand Intercepts(Blocks),  other punches, and one leg Kicks
low twords the attackers legs or knees)

- Incredibly Fast and Effecient.   Over 2 hits per sec,  and each
strike over well 200lbs of force each.  Very little energy needed
or expended.. as it uses economy of motion. (not so
good for weight loss  heh)

- Insane Offensive and Defensive ability.  Use of two hands to
breakdown gaurds, trap limbs, and enter smart and safe. 
Ability to intercept attacks and attack at the same time.  If
a limb gets by, its intercepted with the rear 'backup' hand.


 Ive gained quite a strong ability of WC in my past.  Ive long
since been out of it tho, as I have too many interest, and not
enough time.   

 At my highest level,  I was able to take on high level
belts, even instructors, and make them look bad.  They
barely could touch me.. and I was scoring constantly.

 The style is so much more advantageous...  that I was
able to defend myself very well with a single hand at times,
when I got board of the lack of challenge.

 The accuracy, speed and power generation were insane.
I was able to stop my fist from a full speed attack, when a
poor attacker was accidentally charging in twords it,
thus great control of accuracy. 

 As for power..   I tried not to utilize it.. unless someone
got too cocky and or used too much power against me.  I also
always warned them many times.    I was able to Dizzy
3 highly skilled artist with a short range strike, at only
liike 1/10 the power available.   Upon which time, they
needed 5 mins to recover.
( 2 jujitsu grappplers, and one Capoera/Kook Sul Wan  guy)

 Also, a really persistent --I'm attempting to get by the auto-censor and should be beaten after I re-read the rules-- pushed me too far, and
after too many warnings,  I decided to give him a little
'''taste"  of what I was capable of. 

 He would always rush into my strikes, then plow me into
the ground.   I always told him,  those strikes would have
knocked him out, or broken his legs.  He never yeilded.

 One day, we sparred..   "Fight" ..   and he takes one
step twords me.  I immediately target his Knee with my
Knee Stomp Kick.   The kick is send, and lands as soon
as his leg touched the floor.   I added just a tiny bit
of Snap force.    He went down.  The fight lasted exactly
1 second.

  He Stayed on the ground
grasping his knee in Tears.  Didnt get up for 7 minutes...
and then hobbled the entire night.   Told me it was even
worse after his adrenalin wore off later that night..  almost
hospital worthy.   We are still on good terms however,
and he now is very carefull of knee strikes :P  As well
as now using the strike himself   heh.


 Lutus, After you get to a decent level of shape and want
to progress in a much more skilled fashion,  I highly suggest
looking to take up some Wing Chun classes.   There are
a few branches..  Some are called  Ving Tsun... and some
have other alternative but simular sounding names.


clanggedin:
OK.. I have to chime into the last commet about BJJ. Yes, being on the ground is the last place you want to be in a fight with multiple attackers, but BJJ does have stand up techniques. It is Jui-jitsu and does have throws and locks from the standing position. As for it not being street effective, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu was developed on the streets of Brazil and is very effective. If it wasn't so good they wouldn't be teaching it to police pofficers and military forces. It is what they teach Navy SEALs currently.

I have also witnessed hundreds of MMA and Street fights and have never seen one person receive a sever blow to the head or neck during the take down. When someone is charging at you it is very difficult to hit them in the head and prevent their force from hitting you.

Wing Chun is a great style and I have even incorporated sticky hands into my training regimen, but it is not "the end all be all art". You will sooner or later need to incorporate ground skills or you will be in trouble if the fight goes to the ground against an grappler with high school wrestling experience.

As for being thrown into sparring one day one... When I first started in BJJ I sparred on day 1. It's nothing like full contact sparring in TKD or other arts, but you learn techniques as you spar . It's the reason why I stayed with that art til for 10+ years.

BTW.. Royce Graice fought Jason Delucia a Wing Chun "master" in UFC 2 and won by armbar.

BJJ 1 WC 0 lol

BJJ FTW!!!

ChadTower:

So does it count that Royce Gracie lost so easily to Matt Hughes this year?   ;)

Xiaou2:
 
 This is what little kids reply. (clanggedin)  They chose to alter the real truth behind thier
corrupt version of it...  mostly due to personal Ego.

  BJJ may have come from jiu jitsu,  but now, its rare to see anyone use that
aspect of it.  I bet its not even trained to any degree of its former art.  A
watered down version of it for sure.

 And, even so..   A grappler has to get past a strike range.   Jiu-Jitsu's strike ability
is Nil..  Its why they have to sit on top of thier opponents, and after 20minutes,
might do enough damage to knock them out... maybe.   

 Thier blocking ability? Non existent... to Severely poor.
This is the worst of all weaknesses in real combat.   Especially when
more than one opponent attacks!

 I have also witnessed hundreds of MMA and Street fights
and have never seen one person receive a sever blow to the head or neck
during the take down.

 Just because you havent seen it, doesnt mean Squat.   Ive done it several
times.   Most these SPORT fighters are Poorly trained.  Thier accuracy is Crap. 
Thier power is lost before it even gets to the strike... if it even lands at all.

 These fighters are trained wattered down arts.  Yeah, they learn many
techniques from many arts...  and yet,  they never fully master any of
them!   You can see from thier poor ballance, sloppy clumbsy and
slow kicks, poor power and misses in strikes..   how Horrifically
crappy they are.

  According to a recent documentary, a KungFu strike travels faster
than a Cobra strike.   Something like 40ft per second.      Being that
anyone in the WC system, and other styles such as Snake, can throw
over two of these strikes per second says a lot.   A lot about how
fast youd have to be to get past them unharmed.  Can you move
your 'entire' body 40ft in a sec of time?

Thats not even counting the speed and damage of properly thrown front
snap kicks, Shaolin Toe Stab Kicks, and Knee Stomp Kicks. 
Properly thrown means fast as a quick jab, competely ballanced,
and powerfull enought to break bones.

 Jiu-Jitsu's record on the streets?  I doubt very well.   BJJ,
even less.   Brazils never been known for massive
violence either.   Yet somewhere like Indonesia...
thats a different story.

 Try KungFu's record in the battlefeilds and wilderness,
for THOUSANDS of years worth of time to develop.
 
  Thousands of years of wars, personal fights, thug attacks
and robberies, personal gaurd trainings, shaolin
temple trainings, and much more.

 Wing Chun is a great style and I have even incorporated
sticky hands into my training regimen

 Yes, it is a great style.  Tho a bit cut down from its deeper KungFu roots,
its very effective in its speed of development and usable attributes in
real combat. 

 I have a hard time believeing your using WC, let alone know it
well to any degree.   Mostly from your descriptions.   

 Also, I never said WC was the end of all arts.  I said it was best
in real combat.  Thats my opinion, and my personal experience
with many fights against various styles. 

 I never said 'Do not learn BJJ or Grappling'  Did I?     Having
more arts under ones belt is always an advantage.   If you
do manage to get tossed to the ground, Bjjs a good ability to
have.   However, Diving right to the concrete, is Not a good
plan.. again, esp when theres the possibility of other
attackers.   You know... real life and death stuff.

 Also, if you realized what sticky hands was.. and how its really
used, you would know  that its basically
"combat speed standup grappling'.    Feeling and gaining advantage
mechanically, and exploiiting weakness in order to safely diffuse
energy and strike targets.  Yes, its limited compared to other
grapppling styles.  Theres very little to no locking and throwing.
Only temporary traps to cause openings in defenses.   However,
its Core, is a grappple type of system.   It simply illiminates
the less deadly throws and locks and opts for strikes instead.

 "ground against an grappler with high school
wrestling experience"

 This indicates your level of understanding of a True Street fight.

 There are plenty of thugs arround here, and maybe 1 in 2000 will
get on the ground and roll arround with you on purpose.   No...  instead,
most will box your head arround untill you fall on your own accord.   
Then, they will stomp kick your head arround like a soccor ball.

 My high school had us do some wrestling durring a portion
of gym class every year.  However, I, like many..  didnt like it
nor cared for it.   And, like many others, dont remember any
of it.   As for the people who actually took it seriously out
of gym class...   that 'group'  was the minority.   wrestling wasnt
a huge thing.  Most people prefered to take things like Soccor and
football.

 Furthermore, everyone pretty much knew that wrestling wasnt
real fighting.    The huge majority of fights are won and lost from
the standup position.   
*
 When someone is charging at you it is very difficult
to hit them in the head and prevent their force from hitting you

  Heh,  you really dont get it.   A full throttle Run?!   How many people
have confrontations from 50ft away..   and the guy sprints at you?!

 And, IF that happened, it VERY easy to sidestep the attack safely.  At
high momentum, a body can not change direction quickly.

 You do not HIT a charging target full on.  Instead, you either hit when
they have been evaded/redirected, from the side.  Or,   you do not hit them at all,
and just sidestep... then rush into a followup.

 BUT...

  YOU CAN hit a person square on from thier short burst forwards.   In fact,
Ive done it over and over again.    If you are getting plowed over, it was cause
you lacked the power in your strike, and you do not have good ballance,
strength and leverage gained from proper training excercises.   You must also
remember to use footwork as well as sensativity. Also,  Once the strike lands,
if that guy in big and moving fast, you need to get out of the center... because
his mass will still move forwards even after struck.   Yeah, hes probably
out cold from the strike..if not worse...  but still falling twords you.
That is where proper footwork & chi sao come into play.

"It's the reason why I stayed with that art til for 10+ years."
 
 Wow, you needed 10yrs of that?! 

 Sparring alone will not help you to learn.  In fact, it can hinder progress..
as you can not repeat the technique over and over when you are under
pressure of time and pain... and spots where no oppertunity exists.
 
 This is why WC, and many other Chinese arts use a 2 person
drill set.   Instead of hazzardously battleing,  you practive
contact constanty.  You apply speed and power when you
progress in skills.  Full contact Sparring is done, later when
both fighters are actually competent and skilled.  This prevents
sensless training injuries... and speeds up the learning process.

  BJJ is known to be one of the most high injury arts...   That is,...
durring Training Injuries!   People seem to want to hurt each other
to proove a point.   They will stress your spine and joints to unhealthy
levels, just to proove Ego.    One training injury can take you out
of the arts for half a years time.  By that time, your skills will have dulled
and maybe fogotten...  and you may not wish to play again.

 And why waste your body away getting injured in training?! 
Most likly getting permanent injuries for no good reason!  WHat
a joke.

 
 BTW.. Royce Graice fought Jason Delucia a
Wing Chun "master" in UFC 2 and won by armbar.


 The only WC guy that fought in those sport comps was not a
master in my opinion.   I saw his actions, and they were a joke.
I fight better than him any day of the week.

 Also, this is again the argument of a little kid.  One who
doesnt understand the basic realities.   Or does, but
chooses to ignor them, favoring to retort to a
low level grade school mud slinging.


 One fighter does Not represent the art of WC.   One Master
does not mean they ARE in fact the best or even correct.

 A few fights do not give accurate results against one style
vs another.   

 Sport fight victories never portray real fights.  So thier results
dont even count twords Anything.  These fights are limited in
their rules and overall potentials of situations.   IE: There
are over 40 rules regaurding where you can not strike
in the UFC. (and soon to climb)

  Your BJJ does not represent an art that is based on real
combat.  It has no weapons training, no standup range,
no blocking, no strike training, no conditioning, no
multiple attacker training or validity.   Its an immature
and limited system..  much like the people who claim its
superioity.

 


 

Navigation

[0] Message Index

[#] Next page

[*] Previous page

Go to full version