Nail Guns... Suggestions?

[DigDreams]

Well, my new house is under construction, and once it is done I will be setting up a workshop (finally).  Some of the projects I have planned are additional raised wood decks, crown molding, some shelves, a desk / book case, and of course - another MAME cabinet (I currently have a Bartop and want a stand up as well).

After watching many hours of DIY, HGTV, etc. I see the advantages of having a nail gun - but know virtually nothing about them.

Can someone recommend a good, decently priced nail gun that is versatile enough to be used on all the different types of projects I have planned?  I see many types, some electric, some use compressors, different sized nails, angles, etc.

Any suggestions or advice on this subject would be appreciated.  I plan to purchase a table saw, miter saw, scroll saw, and a nail gun - so the lower the price the better.

- DigDreams

[DrewKaree]

Bostich makes one of the most commonly purchased nailers in the industry.  The real issue you need to consider is what type you want.

A framing nailer is a decent all-around nailer, but won't be suitable for some of the stuff you want to do. 

Sounds like you need the three common types for what you're wanting to do:  framing nailer, pinner (brad gun), and roofing (coil) nailer.  The framing nailer will prolly allow you to do a good amount of what you want to do.

DO NOT buy a "set".  They usually skimp with one or the other of the two products, sometimes in all areas.  Generally, the compressor's will be just enough to run the nailer, or the nailer will be of a lesser quality.  They may also throw in a hose that you will soon want to replace.  Buy 'em separately.

Porter Cable also makes some decent nail guns, the fuel cell guns from Paslode are something far more expensive than you need, and I can't recall any electric guns other than brad guns or a cordless gun like a Ryobi.  If that's what you're referring to by an "electric" gun, those are suitable for light assembly and finish work, but nowhere near what you'll want for a deck.

[daywane]

I just bought a framing nailer.
( I way over paid) (dewalt 250.00)
Harbor freight has em just as good for $80.00
I made my first mistake with my nails. My gun uses 20 to 25 degree angle round head.
store told me to buy these nails. ( turned out the nails the stock person sold me were 30 degree nails) ( box of 2000 nails $30.00 ) I built a wood porch
double nailled a bunch jammed about every 10 min. The store was 2 hour drive away and It was labor day weekend.

I took the gun back and the right person showed me the mistake. Gave me my $$ back on the nails even though 400 nails was used. I bought 5000 nails for $60.00
very happy now.

Harbor Freight has a Brad stapler for $25.00
works like a Champ. I used the heck out of it

[DrewKaree]

I just bought a framing nailer.
( I way over paid) (dewalt 250.00)
Harbor freight has em just as good for $80.00

I have no problems with buying Harbor Freight due to cost on some things, but there's flat out NO WAY the chinese-made Harbor Freight tools equate to the same QUALITY as DeWalt (or equivalent name brand).  They do the same JOB, they use the same MATERIALS, but barring a manufacturing problem that managed to get through, there is NO WAY they are "just as good".

"They'll work for my needs" might be a better way to phrase it, because if the cost was the same, there's NO WAY you'd be buying the Harbor Freight tool; that cost translates to SOMETHING better in quality of the tool, it's just up to the individual to decide if it's WORTH that extra cost.

[prOk]

Just FYI,  Pinner and a Brad gun are two different guns entirely.. 

And, Harbor Freight is cheap.... that's about it.  There is absolutely nothing in that store that is Quality.   For the weekend warrior or the budget minded person they may 'do the job' but they are garbage compared with real quality tools.

[NiteWalker]

Get a small compressor and a senco or porter cable brad that can handle 2" brads. Do some searching and you'll find some good deals. amazon.com is my fav place to shop for power tools.

[DigDreams]

Thanks for all the input everyone...  I'm going to take  a look at Lowes and Home Depot, pick something out, then post it here to see if it loosk like the right solution.

- DigDreams

[emerica]

I used a harbor freight framing nailer to finish my basement which included 2 bedrooms, family room, bathroom and laundry room. I did not have any problems with the gun. I do not believe that cost equals quality. I have a ryobi drill that I would take over my makita drill anyday.

For the everyday home user, I think that harbor freight will suit his or her needs but maybe for commercial use it might be better to buy the more name brand stuff. Although my father in law is a upholsterer and all he uses is harbor freight nailers and says that he has ever had a problem with any of them.

[DrewKaree]

I do not believe that cost equals quality.

For the everyday home user, I think that harbor freight will suit his or her needs but maybe for commercial use it might be better to buy the more name brand stuff.

The second sentence does not jive with your first sentence.  If you truly believe the first sentence, the second sentence would never be uttered.

Cost may not be an iron-clad guarantee of quality, and doesn't guarantee a perfect tool for each and every customer, but it's a darned good indicator of where to START looking for higher quality tools. 

And no one's said "cost equals quality", the advice given here is that Harbor Freight doesn't equal quality, or that cost translates to something better in quality.

Whether the strikers used are of a higher quality steel, the safety mechanisms use a better quality spring or materials, whether the materials for the tool itself to create the body for the tool - SOMETHING is going to be of a lesser quality than a higher cost or "name brand" tool.  It's simply the way the industry works.  Cost DOES equal some SORT of indicator of quality, the level you're comfortable accepting is relative to your needs and wants.

A good example of this is the difference between pine plywood, birch plywood, and oak plywood.  Same item, right?  Plywood.  Then why is there a higher cost for birch, and an even higher cost (generally) for oak?  Quality.  And the cost differential between 3 separate types of oak plywood?  Again, cost.  One with the thinnest veneer to be able to call it oak plywood and numerous voids, one with a lot thicker veneer and not as many voids, and one with a decent veneer and no voids equates to three different costs.  They're all materials used to make something, they all have different costs, and they darned sure equate to the quality.

[Gambit]

I am not sure that cost = quality anymore.

Is dewalt made in America?  If so then the price is going to be 10 times what it would cost if made elsewhere for the same quality.

I woodwork as a hobby, but consider myself very good as I have been doing it for 20 years.  I have never bought a dewalt because the cost is just too great compared to other high quality hobby tools such as porter cable.

But since dewalt is aimed at the professional construction worker who uses his tools all day every day, and I only buy tools for occasional use, I do not think anyone who uses tools for anything other than hobby use should consider my opinion worth more than $0.02.

Dewalt/Harber freight, neither is better or worse, they are made for different circumstances. Professional and hobby use are completely different.

But first check out all the horror pictures of nail gun accidents. It might convince you to purchase a higher quality brand just for fear of a cheap one breaking and injuring you.

[Jetto Funk]

Jump on craigslist and look around, I just put my nailgun up for 150$ and it's new, it's retail price is 350$
Just be very careful when using one, they're touch sensitive and can easily lead to a severe or fatal accident.

[NiteWalker]

Cost does NOT equal quality. The quality is in the brandname (to an extent considering most major tool brands are allunder a few parent companies). Many of HF tools are just replicas of big label tools but made to cheaper specs (cheaper parts, less quality control, etc.). What does this mean? Most tools today are made overseas. A tool being made in the USA does not mean it's a better tool. The things to look for when purchasing a tool is the brand, first of all, and it's reputation. Amazon.com is a great place for tool reviews. Also, ask on here

The second thing to look for when purchasing a tool is the manufacturer's warrenty. Some are only 1 year while some are 5 and even some are lifetime. Tools with good warrenties are the kind you want.

All in all, I think the most important factor in making a tool purchasing decision is the particular tool's reputation. If a tool by a major manufacturer looks great in it's specs but you see numerous negative reviews would you buy it? I wouldn't. Tool quality varies from manufacturer to manufacturer and even from tool to tool within the same brand. I don't rely on brand as much as I do on the particular tool's reputation. A brand name is a general indication of the overall quality IMHO.

I am not sure that cost = quality anymore.

Is dewalt made in America?  If so then the price is going to be 10 times what it would cost if made elsewhere for the same quality.

I woodwork as a hobby, but consider myself very good as I have been doing it for 20 years.  I have never bought a dewalt because the cost is just too great compared to other high quality hobby tools such as porter cable.

But since dewalt is aimed at the professional construction worker who uses his tools all day every day, and I only buy tools for occasional use, I do not think anyone who uses tools for anything other than hobby use should consider my opinion worth more than $0.02.

Dewalt/Harber freight, neither is better or worse, they are made for different circumstances. Professional and hobby use are completely different.

But first check out all the horror pictures of nail gun accidents. It might convince you to purchase a higher quality brand just for fear of a cheap one breaking and injuring you.

[daywane]

my dewalt only has a year warranty
I could have bought 3 harbor freight guns for that.
Father in law has a craftman brad gun
Min is harbor freight , Mine will do staples his will not, mine will do 2 inch brads his will not
Mine cost something like $25.00 his...much more
we are not pros by any means.... weekend projects...
I am off Thursday to buy a cement mixer. Harbor freight here I come. $180.00
maybe if I made my living I would buy better stuff but for some porches to build here and there or a arcade here and there Harbor freight will do just fine
My saws all from there will keep up with the saws all from dewalt at work anyday
done tested it out.
Not a real fare test. Works is 18volt Very high dollar but runs out of juice way to fast.
I brought mine in because I was wanting to test it out. worked all day long opening up crates from Japan . One blade. Maint quit laughing at me for Harbor Fraught now and are starting to buy there home tools there also

It is like all stores. Father inlaw liked My black and decker quantum pro hammer drill
Harbor Fraights one for $25.00 sucked but mine is also 2 times the size
They do sell some junk. but if you pay a bit more they also sell some fine tools

[NiteWalker]

Yeah HF does have some gems among the junk ( a lot of people on the woodnet forums swear by them) and that's great for people trying to save money. The school of thought I follow though is buy once for life. I'd rather spend a few extra $$ on a tool that I know is reputed to last a long time without problems. I'm not bashing HF tools at all; they're great for your purposes (and probably most aracde cabinet builders) and probably serve you very well. I've had a few bad experiences with cheap tools though (ryobi router, b&d drill), so now I just spend the extra few $$ up front and have a tool that will probably outlast me. After having some cheap tools and now having some very high quality tools the difference is very apparent to me.

[Stingray]

I don't own a nail gun, but I borrow my father in laws guns when I need them. His are Porter Cable and seem to be of good quality.

-S

[Dervacumen]

Not specifically limited to nail guns, but I used to manage a DeWalt factory service center and we fixed every brand of tool that was out there.  What I learned is that just about everything breaks or stops perfectly working at some point.  One thing to consider when making your tool purchase, is what are you going to do when it breaks.

If you get something that is not a main stream brand, getting compatible parts to fix it is going to be a problem, if even possible.  In other words, you end up buying a new one.

Usually buying a mainline brand (Proter Cable, DeWalt, Milwaukee, etc.) makes it easier to get it serviced.  Repair costs should be no more than about 50% of the cost of a new replacement.

For me it's totally a price / utility issue.  If I'm only building one deck, I don't see the point in spending $250 for a framing nailer.  I've got a one now that I built ONE 10'X10' shed with, and it's been sitting there ever since.

[Gambit]

This is an excellent discussion. I enjoy reading everyones thoughts on this.

[prOk]

As a tool reseller myself, I see soooo much conversation about Harbor Freight and how people accept what they are simply because they are cheap.   Strange what the mind will let you think is acceptable when the price is right.  It's shocking how many people go out and buy that junk and then come back later saying man, I wasted money on that stuff, I should have bought a decent tool to start with.

Next time you want to go to harbor freight and buy just about anything, do a real side by side comparison with even a low end reputable brand equivalent.  Ask questions.   Tools are not toys and for the most part you buy them once and keep them for generations sometimes.  The stuff made by harbor freight is generally poorly made, does not live up to safety standards  and generally if it breaks you're out of luck.  Even the lowest end decent name brand is of vastly better quality and will serve you for many years.   Now granted, there are some rediculous things that I know darned well are disposable or I just don't need accuracy for and i'll buy it myself, but when it comes to a real piece of equipment that's more than a few bucks they aren't even in the running.

I do admit, I generally cater to the higher end hobbyist woodworker but I also deal with the people brand new to the hobby and just starting to equip a shop.    Brands I deal with are Fein, Jet, Powermatic, Dewalt, Porter Cable, Delta (not for long) etc..

Anyway, I know i'm rambling, but really keep in mind, tools are an investment in tomorrow.

/b

[NiteWalker]

It's not a ramble by any means. It is a valid opinion of someone who deals with the mentioned brands. It is true; a lot of people overlook safety features and longevity of tools based on the price. I learned the hard way, buy once, buy for life.  I will not buy anything but a known tool from now on that has positive reviews by END USERS and not some paid ww mag review.

Long story short, I bought a ryobi router that couldn't handle any larger than a 3/4" straight bit or it would vibrate so much my hand hurt. Also, the motor locking latch broke cleanly in half. And on top of all that the depth adjustment locked up and still will not budge.

So now I have 2 porter cable routers, a triton plunge and a bosch. No problems with any.

Outside of replacing the motor brushes I doubt I'll have to have any of them repaired any time soon. The cheap router did it's job as long as I had it, but had I spent the extra money for a quality tool in the first place I'd not be out the $60 I paid for the router.

[prOk]

That's a perfect story to go along with what I was saying actually!   SO many folks look at a tool and say a router is a router right?  wrong...   There's a million things that can be different about the motors, brushes, horsepower, collets etc and each one makes a huge difference in the longevity of the router and just what it can/will cut successfully.   I've never seen a Harbor Freight or super cheap router such as the ryobi line that doesn't chatter painfully when cutting anything more than 1/2 inch material very slowly.    I'm a big fan of Porter Cable in the 'affordable' market, triton in the midrange and Festool in the upper range.   Really did like Bosch but they seem to be getting out of the market entirely ( I have a bosch in my router table and two porter cables as my hand routers and a colombo spindle in the CNC machine in my personal shop)

[NiteWalker]

I'm a big fan of Porter Cable in the 'affordable' market, triton in the midrange and Festool in the upper range.   Really did like Bosch but they seem to be getting out of the market entirely ( I have a bosch in my router table and two porter cables as my hand routers and a colombo spindle in the CNC machine in my personal shop)

I didn't know bosch was getting out of the market...
Their 1617EVS is one of my favorite routers to use...

About price; when you shop amazon.com and stack some discounts everything's at the affordable market 
Be careful; amazon has been known to break banks and marriages in a single money hungry swipe.

Festool is the best on the market, no doubt. But for me, they are overpriced for what they do. The price vs. performance line is more blurred in the midrange (Bosch 1617EVS, Porter Cable 890, DeWalt 1618, etc.). In the festool 2 1/4 HP router's case the extra $200 you'll spend on it doesn't justify itself in use. I'd rather buy 2 of the above mentioned routers (maybe 3- amazon sickness speaking  )at the same cost as the 1 festool router.

Maybe it's just my needs, but in my shop I don't need a Laguna 24" resaw bandsaw or a $400 festool router.  I'm fine with my "midrange" tools. Right now about the only thing I'll be upgrading is my tablesaw (I have the Delta TS350; hate the fence) and buying a drill press and a bandsaw if my needs permit it's use. All 3 will probably be the Grizzly line as they make some very heavy duty tools. Maybe a General for the TS; not 100% on that yet.

About the only other thing I could use right now is a laminate trimmer. I'm eyeballin the Ridgid R2400...

[prOk]

Yea, Festool is the shiznit.. if I could afford it i'd be loaded with their stuff.   The precision, vibration and dust collection capabilities of those tools is amazing to say the least.. If i was doing artisan quality work i'd want nothing less  

Laguna also makes some really really nice stuff, but they are definitely in the Pro shop level.. not hobbyist.   I'd humbly suggest you steer clear of Grizzly, if you didn't already know, they are Shop Fox with a different paint job (So is 'Steelex').   Shop Fox is notoriously bad and unreliable equipment..   In the 'just above Shop Fox' world, General  is by far a better tool.. very near the quality of Jet and Powermatic for less money.

/b

[NiteWalker]

The grizzly tools I've researched all have positive reviews from amazon.com and more importantly, the woodnet forums. Here's what I've decided on:

Table Saw Like I said before, this isn't 100% decided yet but looks to be the best contender. Very positive reviews from woodnet. Since you're in the know what you recommend for a good contractor's saw? The most important thing is the quality of the fence. I'm trying not to spend more than $700 on it.

Bandsaw I don't need one right away, but I do want one soon. Again, all positive reviews and noone ever said anything bad about it. It will probably be the only bandsaw I'll ever need. This is more of a want than a need though so no rush on it.

Drill Press This is the only one set in stone. I'll be getting this as soon as I can afford it. I don't need a floor model, but when I do decide to need a floor model, grizzly sells the parts to turn this one into this one. Only the 2 bottom pieces and the column are different. Everything else is identical.

Those tools would round out my shop nicely. As I said, the only other thing I need is a laminate trimmer. I'll be getting the Ridgid soon. And also, if the need for a drill press wins over my budget I'll get this one as a place holder. Not a bad DP for $60 spec wise.

Hmmm...
It seems we're hijacking this thread. Maybe we should start a power tool discussion thread?