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State of the FE devs?
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youki:

--- Quote ---I tried the demo of AtomicFE and to me the scripted themes were very slow, so it's funny how people can call .NET slow just by an assumption.
--- End quote ---

That Demo uses the old engine, if you try the demo using Atomic 0.17-2 engine it will be faster.
And you know the scripting use VBScript... it is why it can be slow for heavy animation.

You will see very soon  a demonstration the power of my engine in term of layout and speed.  ;)


headkaze:

--- Quote from: youki on September 12, 2006, 07:27:25 am ---
--- Quote ---I tried the demo of AtomicFE and to me the scripted themes were very slow, so it's funny how people can call .NET slow just by an assumption.
--- End quote ---

That Demo uses the old engine, if you try the demo using Atomic 0.17-2 engine it will be faster.
And you know the scripting use VBScript... it is why it can be slow for heavy animation.

You will see very soon  a demonstration the power of my engine in term of layout and speed.  ;)
--- End quote ---

That's what happens when you don't keep up with the development of other FE's you don't know how better they are since you last looked at them! Thats why when people (won't mention any names) say things about GameEx it's quite often about the state of it 6 months ago!
Howard_Casto:

--- Quote from: headkaze on September 12, 2006, 07:17:08 am ---But seriously, if your not taking on .NET because it doesn't create controls into arrays automatically, or that controls can't have transparent backgrounds then that's a pretty lame reason. For a start you shouldn't be using form controls for things like Johnny5. That should be done using GDI+. I think your coming up with anything to avoid the inevitable realisation that it's time to upgrade your coding skills. VB6 is dead, it's time to get over it and move on (IMHO) :P

--- End quote ---

No not really.  Considering anything I do graphically I do via directX now I'm more than competant when it comes to coding skill.  But I am NOT willing to re-write all of my existing apps just because m$ was too stupid to keep all existing controls/control properties from vs6.  J5, in particular uses transparent labels for the captions.  Now yes I can do that via gdi, but gdi doesn't nicely format the text, you have to do all the centering and alignment manually. I can port the whole thing to dx, but the newer dx text functions don't work on older video cards, so again, I'd have to do it manually. With a transparent label, it's all done for you.  I'm not willing to upgrade because it's dumb to spend hours re-writing functions to get the application to do exactly what it did before, only now it takes more resources (.net controls are huge and bloated as is the .net framework, it doesn't work like runtime files did). 

I'm more than willing to write NEW apps in .net (I think my mame output handler might be made in c#).  But upgrading for the sake of upgrading would only remvoe features, not add them. 

I'm not arguing over the new suites merits, but it has a ton of flaws.  My guess is you never really used some of the built-in stuff in vs6 so you don't miss it.  Trust me, I could make you a list of things they've left out a mile long.  I'm not opposed to change, but some of these functions don't have an alternative in .net. 
headkaze:

--- Quote from: Howard_Casto on September 12, 2006, 09:55:38 am ---No not really.  Considering anything I do graphically I do via directX now I'm more than competant when it comes to coding skill.

--- End quote ---

What I meant by that is update your coding skills in .NET. That's all I meant, I'm not assuming anything about your programming skills in general.

I think you make some valid points, there are some annoying things with .NET, but I also felt the same way when moving between VC6 and VB6. I find that doing a bit of research on the web usually reveals a solution to my problems.

And your right, I don't think you should re-write all your applications for the sake of it, you were just asking about control arrays and I remembered checking out J5 and assumed you were playing with the idea of rewriting it in .NET. It's not terribly difficult to do it all in GDI+ once you write a few classes to display things how you like.

I guess all I'm saying is be open minded and don't write off .NET because of a few annoying limitations. Quite often the limitations can be removed by inheriting the controls and overriding the built in methods. I know that sucks, but it's a work around. For example at the moment I'm writing something for GameEx, there were two annoying things that didn't work the way I wanted out of the box. 1. Resizing a label's height based on the multi-line text inside. I wrote a nasty unmanaged GDI class to do that, then I posted a message on a .NET forum and a nice guy posted managed code to do it. 2. I couldn't get tooltips with multi-line text. Again I found a great class in on the Net that would automatically place line breaks into the tooltip's text at a width you specify. So while the limitations can be frustrating the good points outweigh the bad by a long shot.
AllisterFiend:
Lots of good information in this thread.

I want to thank everyone who helped me sort through everything.

I have learned a lot in the last few days.

I'm looking into VB 2005 or Visual C# 2005 and I'm leaning toward Visual C#.

Thanks once again.

Allister Fiend
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