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| u_rebelscum:
--- Quote from: RandyT on July 11, 2006, 09:41:32 am --- --- Quote from: Kremmit on July 10, 2006, 11:20:02 pm ---A) "Raw Quadrature" is the 4-step light pulse data as read by the optics. If you've got a plain-jane optic card with nothing more than some optics and a resistor or two, such as a Tempest spinner or standard trackball optic, then there's no room for change between steps A and B. --- End quote --- Correct. But to clarify, that "A" stage data is not alterable. Consider it mechanical. Anything that happens beyond those 4 states is, IMHO, relegated to "B". Therefore, "A" should not even be considered separate, as what happens there is buried behind the circuitry that ultimately sends the data to the computer / game PCB. The quadrature data can be modified to be anything up to the 4 full states, including half, quarter, etc. But it always happens at the "B" stage. RandyT --- End quote --- Sorry, so late getting back. IMO, the changes are happening between A & B. You have the quadrature signal (A), and you have the USB signal (B). In between, the mouse firmware does the translation and, if any (I have a mouse that can) hardware acceleration or other messing with the data. As Kermmit, mentioned, most arcade trackballs/spinners don't do anything to the quadrature signal (besides "cleaning" the signal, if any coughHappsRedBoardcough). To me A, B, C & D are just the data, not what happened to it just before that point. IOW, B does not include the mouse firmware stuff (it's just the data that is passing from the mouse to the computer). C does not include the OS messing with the data (just the data being passed from the OS to mame), D does not include what mame does to the data (just the data being passed to the game from mame). (Should I have seperated my list into seven parts, 4 data steps & 3 possible data processing parts? ;)) Xiaou2, I looked at crystal castles code but couldn't find mame rotating the signal, and don't have the rom here at work, err, just here. ;) Are you saying that all we have to is rotate the trackball and no make any code changes? RandyT, here's a game that edits mouse data in the driver: Marble Madness also had the trackballs rotated 45 degrees. Mame has code that converts the mouse x,y to the game's p,q (made up letters) so that every possible mouse x,y combo has exactly one p,q combo (p=x+y, q=x-y). The only problem is the p,q combos output are checkerboaded: you can get (0,0), (0,2), (1,1), (1,3), (2,0), & (2,2), but not (0,1), (1,0), (1,2), or (2,1). Some might suggest setting the sesitivity to 50%, but that's applied to the mouse data (from my step C) by mame core before the driver rotates it (after it sends it, step D). IOW, on the original hardware the game could get direction combos that mame can't send. So if you make a 45 degree trackball panel, edit the MM driver and remove the rotating code, too. You'll probably get better play (how much better is debatable). |
| RandyT:
--- Quote from: u_rebelscum on July 11, 2006, 03:03:58 pm ---IMO, the changes are happening between A & B --- End quote --- Ok, but then "A" should probably be re-defined as "Conversion of raw quadrature data to Mouse data". What you stated originally was --- Quote from: u_rebelscum ---...as between each stage the sender can manipulate the data before sending it. --- End quote --- There is no way for the sender in step "A", which you defined as "raw quadrature data" to modify it before sending it to step "B". Quadrature data is opto-mechanical in nature and the sender is literally the opto-sensors and the output generated as the apertures pass through them. Now, if you had, as the encoder wheel, a circular LCD panel that could change it's aperture layout dynamically, I might be more inclined to agree with your first statement. ;) RandyT |
| 2600:
We've had the Crystal Castles Discussion before. The trackball is NOT rotated. Look at the manual and ask someone with a real one, it is NOT rotated. Never knew MM was, that's kinda cool. I wonder why they did that. |
| KevSteele:
--- Quote from: 2600 on July 11, 2006, 04:00:50 pm ---We've had the Crystal Castles Discussion before. The trackball is NOT rotated. Look at the manual and ask someone with a real one, it is NOT rotated. Never knew MM was, that's kinda cool. I wonder why they did that. --- End quote --- It makes perfect sense: since the game is an isometric layout, most of the time you are going to be moving the ball in a diagonal direction. Twisting the assembly 45 degrees ensures the smoothest movement possible, since you'll be rolling the ball directly towards one of the rollers. Very neat design touch, and a fascinating bit of trivia -- thanks, u_rebelscum! Kevin |
| RandyT:
--- Quote from: KevSteele on July 11, 2006, 05:03:53 pm --- --- Quote from: 2600 on July 11, 2006, 04:00:50 pm ---We've had the Crystal Castles Discussion before. The trackball is NOT rotated. Look at the manual and ask someone with a real one, it is NOT rotated. Never knew MM was, that's kinda cool. I wonder why they did that. --- End quote --- It makes perfect sense: since the game is an isometric layout, most of the time you are going to be moving the ball in a diagonal direction. Twisting the assembly 45 degrees ensures the smoothest movement possible, since you'll be rolling the ball directly towards one of the rollers. --- End quote --- Hmm...I'm still baffled. MM uses 360 degrees of motion, so the most benefit would be gained by placing the rollers against the direction most often required by the game. Most of the time in MM, you are rolling the TB down and to the left or right, so rotating the unit such that the ball is sitting above a "V" formed by the rollers would make the most sense. This would mean 135 degrees, not 45. But there will always be a couple of directions that just aren't as good as others with a traditional 3 sided roller arrangement, regardless of the angle. Maybe they did it for space considerations, as the trackballs get a lot narrower horizontally in that orientation, but that depends on which direction it was rotated. :) RandyT |
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