TRON JOYSTICK HANDLES (Recasting) PART 1

[ErikRuud]

For people who want to try it themselves, I just had some luck casting some volcano lens.  I used Alumilite which is kind of expensive, but I found another casting resin by Environmental Tech that is much cheaper.  I haven't tried it, but it looks good.  It comes in clear and there are dyes including translucent blue.  They also have a translucent pearl that would be cool or maybe you could make a red, white & blue stick.  To eliminate the bubbles, I've been curing the resin in a paint tank pressurized to 45 PSI.  I should have taken some pictures of the process, but I have had so many failures that I stopped filming.

Thoses resins are a different sort of animal.  I know for a fact that the first one on the pages has a rather powerful smell. Kind of like nail polish, only stronger.  You can usually smell it even from inside a brand new unopened can.

The mold materail on that site is a liquid latex.  Latex tends to shrink as it cures, which is not a good thing when you are trying to replicate parts.

The silicone molding materials have very little (almost none) shrinkage at all.

[Fozzy The Bear]

Translucent Blue... and possibly Red as well......  UV Reactive, ermmm don't know yet! I'll take a look at that.

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

Possible leads on UV Pigments.

http://www.dayglo.com/products_nightglo.asp  (Untested)

http://www.specialtycoatingschem.com/pg-3.htm#k-color  (Reccomended by http://www.lumicast.com/)

http://eagerplastics.com/7702.htm

I got these links from a discussion on the Yahoo Casting group.  The first one had not been tested by anyone on the group.  The other two were reccomended by peopl that had actually used them.

Thanks Erik, I'll take a look at those.... It might slow things down a bit if I have to order them in and I'm also not too sure that they will ship transatlantic, due to the fact that they're chemical compounds. but I'll pass the brand names to my local supplier and see what they can turn up.

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

[rdagger]

I've been having problems with my clear casts coming out sticky to the touch.  Is there anything you can do to reduce the tackiness?

[Fozzy The Bear]

I've been having problems with my clear casts coming out sticky to the touch.  Is there anything you can do to reduce the tackiness?

Using what resin and catalyst in what type of mold and how are you getting it in there??

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

[Xiaou2]

 I once tries the  'Environmental Tech'  clear resin.  Had the same 'sticky' problem.   

 It seems you have to have "perfect"  measurements.   They wanted you to calculate actual "volume" and maybe even weight.   Since I didnt have a weight scale or any other simular method.. (id long forgotten such math works)  I guessed.   Well..  I guessed wrong. 

 Too much hardener.. and it will be briittle and crack.  Too little, and it wont cure fully.  (or may take years to do so.. if ever)

 I  also left the unused 'can' sit too long untouched.   While the cap was on tightly..  it somehow managed to harden itself over time.      A pile of money down the drain. 

 Alumilite was much easier to work with.. but seemed to have drawbacks. 
The major one was strength.  Anything thin was pretty frail.   And if you dropped a piece.. or threw it.. it would break appart - whereas 'real' plastics would not.    Large parts did faily well though. 

 I believe sometimes I had trouble with it being too mushy even after the said 'de-mold time'.  Strange, because sometimes it was perfect, and others... with the same exact mix, was bad.  I then pre-heated the molds, and that seemed to help.   

(in hind-sight, this may have been caused when  "mixing"  both parts..  and not haveing
a perfectly blended mix.   But.. if mixed very vigorously, I think I got air bubbles into the stuff.  a mechanical mixer of some sort may work better...) 

 Occasional air bubbles too... if your not very carefull when pouring.  Which is a bit tricky.. givien that you have to mix both parts well.. and pour the suff in slowly.. all before 2 or 3 minutes, upon which time it will harden.
 
 Cant use 'clears', unless you have a vacume supposedly. 

 The silicone rubber was pretty damn expensive.   Of course, I didnt realize to try useing
part Plaster either.      Still... if a mold fails..  you feel Very bad $. 

 You couldnt expect to make thin stuff like an encoder wheel.  Found that out the hard way.     Spokes broke when trying to extract the part.  Then more broke,  when handled lightly.

 Not sure how durrable it would be for active mechanical stuff either.

  Ohh, and I also let a jug of the stuff sit too long.. and it also hardened.     Took a lot longer than the E.T. stuff..  but all the same... 

[Fozzy The Bear]

Xiaou2

        That's all because you used the wrong resins for the job you were doing, didn't mix them properly, in the proportions specified by the manufacturer, and didn't follow the instructions.

Most people have major and expensive failures when they do it that way.

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

[RandyT]

Some of those clear "encapsulating" resins found in the craft stores are very difficult to work with.

From what I understand, the reason is that some of the stabilizing agents normally found in standard polyster resins have been removed to give it the crystal clear appearance.  I tend to think that this is true, as standard polyester resin is much easier to get a good result with, but is nowhere near as pretty to look at.

There are other water clear casting materials that work better, but they aren't as accessible or as inexpensive.

RandyT

[ErikRuud]

Tackiness, Oily Residue, and Failure to Fully Cure ("The fruit roll-up effect" ) are usually caused by inaccurate measuring.  Brittleness can also be a result of improper measuring.

Read the labels carefully.  Some resins need to be measured by volume, and others are by weight.  Do not assume that a 1:1 ratio resin can be mixed either way.  The two parts often have different densities.  1:1 by volume resins are usually the easiest to work with, but not always the best for a given application.

Careful, Gentle mixing can reduce the number of air bubbles.

Pressure casting can greatly reduce the number of air bubbles.  Mainly by squeezing them down to microscopic size.

Done properly, Vaccum casting can pretty much eliminate all bubbles by literally sucking the air out of the resin.

Pressure and Vaccum require resins with longer open (working) times.

Pressure and Vaccum casting can be dangerous if not done with proper equipment.

[koz319]

Found an interesting vid on casting with a silicone mold - I'd never seen it done before.



Can't wait for some Tron repros!

Koz

[ahofle]

Wow that's fascinating.  That looks like some expensive equipment there though.

[rdagger]

I've been having problems with my clear casts coming out sticky to the touch.  Is there anything you can do to reduce the tackiness?

Using what resin and catalyst in what type of mold and how are you getting it in there??

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

I'm using Alumilite clear with a 2 piece mold (1 half HS3 and the other half quickset RTV )
I've been measuring by volume instead of weight, because I don't have scale.  That could be the problem.
I guess I need to find a very accurate scale because I'm making very small molds like volcano button lens that only require a few drops of resin.

I've been heating the molds in a microwave and letting them cure overnight in a 45 PSI tank.

[Fozzy The Bear]

I'm using Alumilite clear with a 2 piece mold (1 half HS3 and the other half quickset RTV )

OK that should work....

I've been measuring by volume instead of weight, because I don't have scale.  That could be the problem.

That's almost certainly the problem. If you measure 5% by volume it won't be the same as 5% by weight as the resin and the catalyst are different densities.

I guess I need to find a very accurate scale because I'm making very small molds like volcano button lens that only require a few drops of resin.

Electronic kitchen scales are quite good enough... and to get accurate mixing, you should never mix less than about 200Ml

I've been heating the molds in a microwave and letting them cure overnight in a 45 PSI tank.

Ermmm.... not a good idea!.... let your molds cure naturally over a period of about 4 weeks, before you use them. You'll get much better results.

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

[ErikRuud]

Found an interesting vid on casting with a silicone mold - I'd never seen it done before.



Can't wait for some Tron repros!

Koz

I have seen video before.

That equipment is very very expensive, and not really practical for most hobby/small business needs.

It is very cool though.  Depending on the model, it will vaccum de-air the resin, pressure cast and heat cure all in the same device.

[RayB]

It's been long enough. Where are pics of a new home-made tron shell??

[Fozzy The Bear]

It's been long enough. Where are pics of a new home-made tron shell??

Patience!!! Please!!!   I'll be posting part 2 of the mold making tutorial in the next two weeks....

After that, I'll get the first pics of the first shell out of the molds up! Just be patient! Good things come to those who wait...... 

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

[Brax]

It's been long enough. Where are pics of a new home-made tron shell??

If I can wait, you can wait longer too.

[rdagger]

I found a tip that dipping the parts in baby powder helps if the parts are sticky.
I tried it and it works.

[Havok]

Hey Julian:

I just got the first sets of handles you shipped out: they look fantastic! Thanks!

[horseboy]

Hey Julian:

I just got the first sets of handles you shipped out: they look fantastic! Thanks!

What reason do you have for wanting to start a riot?

[MameMaster!]

Hey Julian:

I just got the first sets of handles you shipped out: they look fantastic! Thanks!

...you got yours too? they're awesome aren't they? Thanks Fozzy!



























  (sorry I couldn't help myself)

[Havok]

I meant to send that message in a month from now...

 

[jcoleman]

Put me down for one of these!

[horseboy]

I meant to send that message in a month from now...

 

50 red-faced Tron fans simultaneously exhale

[Fozzy The Bear]

I meant to send that message in a month from now...

 

50 red-faced Tron fans simultaneously exhale

Glad you like the "Virtual Tron Handles" you recieved....  I'll be even happier when your virtual payment for them arrives here. Of course if your "virtual payment" doesn't arrive within the next 48 Hours I'll be happy to instigate "Virtual Legal Proceedings" 

Cool you toes dudes!!!  Part two of the tutorial is in progress!!  Things have been very busy at work in the last few weeks, we hit tourist season, when all hell breaks free and I have to keep a lot of machines running.  It's called making a living and it's what keeps a roof over my head and means I can afford to buy materials to do the Tron Handles!

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)



 

[Havok]

You didn't receive your payment yet? I'll have to call my bank - The Bank of Harpal, and complain! It's probably stuck in transit - darn couriers!!!

Can't wait for Part II - thanks for keeping Tron alive and restored...

 

[Fozzy The Bear]

I'll have to call my bank - The Bank of Harpal, and complain!

ROFL..... Didn't you know that the "Bank Of Harpal" is obviously the former "Bank Of Credit And Commerce International"  AKA "BCCI" and clearly associated with the "Bank Of Paypal" 

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

[teef two]

Just checking to see if there's an update.

[Hurray Banana]

Any updates on these Fozzy?

[rbarr110]

Any updates on these Fozzy?

Wondering the same thing here.  Any yet?

[Fozzy The Bear]

Sorry guys ..... No updates to report yet....

Things are progressing, but slower than I would have liked them to.... Just too busy at work right now to get much more done.

Things should start to slow down at work in about a month or so, and then I can get back to some serious work on these.

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

[Steve]

The  controller looks awesome, and I need a new one for my Discs of Tron (well I'd like 2)

When do you think you'll have more available ?

Steve

[rbarr110]

Is this a dead project?  Been a long time since any updates.

[ahofle]

Things should start to slow down at work in about a month or so, and then I can get back to some serious work on these.

[Fozzy The Bear]

Is this a dead project?  Been a long time since any updates.

Try reading the thread!!! DOH!! 

I'll be back to working on these some time towards the end of next week.... That's not to say that there will be updates here at that time! just that I'm still on it!!

For the very small minority of you guys, who want everything yesterday,  Try to remember that what I do I do solely in my free time...... and as I work for a large arcade and it's tourist season right now, I don't get much of that!!

To the rest of you guys who have been patient... Thanks dudes! It's all still in progress.

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

[rbarr110]

Is this a dead project?  Been a long time since any updates.

Try reading the thread!!! DOH!! 

I'll be back to working on these some time towards the end of next week.... That's not to say that there will be updates here at that time! just that I'm still on it!!

For the very small minority of you guys, who want everything yesterday,  Try to remember that what I do I do solely in my free time...... and as I work for a large arcade and it's tourist season right now, I don't get much of that!!

To the rest of you guys who have been patient... Thanks dudes! It's all still in progress.

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

By the way...I DID READ the thread, I was wondering since it had been pretty damn close to a month on the date I posted. 

Things should start to slow down at work in about a month or so, and then I can get back to some serious work on these.

OK so I was 2 days early, relax.

[CheffoJeffo]

OK so I was 2 days early, relax.

Can we lay off of Fozzy, please ?

If you don't own the handle he borrowed, then he doesn't owe you anything and we've had enough pestering ... clearly he is busy with RealLife(tm) and the attitude and impatience isn't helping anybody.

And we wonder why more folks don't do repro projects.

Cheers.

[rbarr110]

OK so I was 2 days early, relax.

Can we lay off of Fozzy, please ?

If you don't own the handle he borrowed, then he doesn't owe you anything and we've had enough pestering ... clearly he is busy with RealLife(tm) and the attitude and impatience isn't helping anybody.

And we wonder why more folks don't do repro projects.

Cheers.

I am not trying to be pain in the ass, all I asked was a simple question and got an uptight answer, so I responded in a similiar manner.  I am simply curious on how well this is going (or not going well) since I am very interested in doing my own mold for a non-arcade related project.

I just dont understand on asking if the project was dead is such a horrible thing to ask, the question wasn't a personal attack, or a demand to have the project done now, SIMPLY A QUESTION.

Damn, now I need to relax.

[CheffoJeffo]

got an uptight answer, so I responded in a similiar manner. 

For me, THAT was the problem (hence, my quoting it) ... if you want something from somebody (especially if you're getting it for free), throwing attitude is probably the LAST thing you should do.

And, from the thread you can see how Fozzy could think that you are hounding him ... you may, in fact, be perfectly content to wait and are grateful for Fozzy sharing the experience -- I just don't think that is coming through in your postings.

Cheers.

[Sizzler]

By the way...I DID READ the thread, I was wondering since it had been pretty damn close to a month on the date I posted. 

Things should start to slow down at work in about a month or so, and then I can get back to some serious work on these.

OK so I was 2 days early, relax.

You need to relax and lose the attitude.   Clearly you either didn't read the thread or you don't understand what the words "or so" and "get back to work" mean. 

He says he won't even be able to get back to work on these for a month or so and you think that means 24 days later he should be posting or the project is dead?   

Fozzy had every right to respond to you as he did.  Chill out and let the man do his work.

[rbarr110]

You need to relax and lose the attitude.   Clearly you either didn't read the thread

Damn, now I need to relax.

Perhaps you didn't clearly read the threads, I already stated that.   

Fozzy said in "ABOUT a month or so", to me the use of "about" is not a definite time frame.  It could be sooner or later than a month or exactly a month.  To me, 29 days (not 24) between Fozzy's post and my post is ABOUT a month.    Fozzy could have simply said, no I haven't had a chance to get back on it, instead I was flamed for my question and told to read the post, which I have, several times.

I have sent a PM to Fozzy already apologizing for my response to his response, it wasn't mature, and I should have let it be. 

I, however, am NOT apologizing for asking if the project was dead, I still don't see how asking that is inappropriate.  Perhaps I should have just asked if there were any updates yet.

I am done with this, I will sit back, wait, and hope things work out well and never ask the status of a project again, but feel free to continue to flame me for asking a question.

Once again, sorry Fozzy, not trying to piss you off just curious as of the status, and yes I am gonna relax and let it go, Sizzlers comment just annoyed the hell out of me (probably similar to the way my response did to others).