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Author Topic: USB problem isolated!!  (Read 26448 times)

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southpaw13

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USB problem isolated!!
« on: March 20, 2006, 07:17:34 pm »
I hope.  I tried my LEDWIZ on a VIA chipset and it worked fine!  It does not work on any of my NVIDIA chipset computers!

Does this help?

Southpaw

MikeQ

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Re: USB problem isolated!!
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2006, 07:21:36 pm »
Were both the 2000 and xp machines Nvidia CK804 chipsets?  I noticed today that the Athlon I had the problem on was an Nvidia too.

I'm seeing the problem on a 82801 Intel and a hub.

Did you try reproducing the problem with the LEDWiz control panel or PowerMAME?

southpaw13

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Re: USB problem isolated!!
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2006, 07:25:55 pm »
I will have to check the actual chipset numbers, but I did the testing on the LEDWIZ control panel...

Both of my first system tests were on the NVIDIA chipset.

The third one I tested was on a VIA....
It worked fine!

All of my tests were done on Athlon XP CPU's...

southpaw13

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Re: USB problem isolated!!
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2006, 07:35:30 pm »
What's the easiest way to find the chipset number with cracking open the case or the instruction manual?

I really think that root problem is Via vs. Nvidia since they handle things differently...

Can anyone confirm this?

Southpaw

JoyMonkey

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Re: USB problem isolated!!
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2006, 07:53:49 pm »
I've also just hit the problem with an NVidia chipset (on an Asus A7N8X-E motherobard). In the device manager it appears to be using the standard Windows generic USB chipset driver (see attached). NVidia (or perhaps Asus) should have some more specific USB 2.0 drivers for my motherboard, maybe I never installed them? I'll have a look shortly...

southpaw13

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Re: USB problem isolated!!
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2006, 08:02:20 pm »
That is exactly how mine looked (that didn't work).  When I installed the LEDWIZ on my Via chipset, it went through a few more loading procedures to load.

Southpaw

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Re: USB problem isolated!!
« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2006, 08:28:46 pm »
sweet, it might work
« Last Edit: January 21, 2007, 09:39:12 pm by squirrellydw »
I b**ch. People listen!!

JoyMonkey

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Re: USB problem isolated!!
« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2006, 08:37:21 pm »
Just tested with my VIA EPIA MII mini-itx motherboard and it works fine with and without a usb hub.

southpaw13

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Re: USB problem isolated!!
« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2006, 08:42:41 pm »
OK, we are on to something.  I wouldn't bother Mike right now about putting it back on-line.  I think more testing needs to be done and Randy will need to come up with a fix first....

We are heading in the right direction :angel:

JoyMonkey

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Re: USB problem isolated!!
« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2006, 08:50:27 pm »
Is your motherboard an nForce or nForce2 motherboard? If so, do you know if you installed the nForce1/2 unified driver v5.10 ?

I might try rolling back to an older version.

MikeQ

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Re: USB problem isolated!!
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2006, 08:54:51 pm »
Can someone with an NVidia chipset try a test for me?  It is small and I can email it to you.

JoyMonkey

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Re: USB problem isolated!!
« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2006, 08:56:39 pm »
Fire away ( joymonkey@gmail.com )

MikeQ

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Re: USB problem isolated!!
« Reply #12 on: March 20, 2006, 08:59:22 pm »
sent

JoyMonkey

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Re: USB problem isolated!!
« Reply #13 on: March 20, 2006, 09:05:23 pm »
I haven't received it yet. Gmail won't accept exe files as attachments or zip files containing exe's. If it was an exe or zipped exe, can you put it in a rar archive?

MikeQ

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Re: USB problem isolated!!
« Reply #14 on: March 20, 2006, 09:07:25 pm »
aaghhh.  It bounced.  Let me put it up on the website and you can download.  I don't have a rar'er.


www.unappliedbraincells.com/test
« Last Edit: March 20, 2006, 09:10:35 pm by MikeQ »

MikeQ

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Re: USB problem isolated!!
« Reply #15 on: March 20, 2006, 09:10:45 pm »
It's there

JoyMonkey

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Re: USB problem isolated!!
« Reply #16 on: March 20, 2006, 09:13:54 pm »
I've got LEDs 4,5,6,7,8,9 and 30,31,32 hooked up.

When I run the testbench.exe, 4,5,6,7,8,9 are in a constant synchronized sawtooth, 30,31,32 are on (not sawtoothing)
« Last Edit: March 20, 2006, 09:19:22 pm by JoyMonkey »

JoyMonkey

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Re: USB problem isolated!!
« Reply #17 on: March 20, 2006, 09:26:43 pm »
The LEDWiz control panel gives me really random results with this motherboard. To test it out properly, I guess I'd really have all 32 outputs connected to LEDs.
For example, when I set 4,5,6,7,8,9 and 30,31,32 to saw and turn them on 30,31,32 will saw but 4,5,6,7,8,9 remain constantly on.
Now when I set 1 to saw, but leave it off, 4,5,6,7,8 begin to saw, 9 remains constantly on and 30,31,32 continue to saw.
Then I switched 6 to square and 4,5,6,7,8,9 went constantly on, 30,31,32 ocntinued to sawtooth.
Switching 6 back to saw does nothing.

 ???
« Last Edit: March 20, 2006, 09:32:41 pm by JoyMonkey »

MikeQ

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Re: USB problem isolated!!
« Reply #18 on: March 20, 2006, 09:39:47 pm »
I've got another test up on the site.  Same Zip file. 

If you can, give it a try.  I'm messing with different methods of purging data to the device.

JoyMonkey

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Re: USB problem isolated!!
« Reply #19 on: March 20, 2006, 09:44:54 pm »
This new one makes all my LEDs saw really quickly (faster than the LEDWiz control panel).

But now when I run your first testbench.exe, I get the same thing- all leds are sawing now.

I'm going to restart and see what they do.

JoyMonkey

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Re: USB problem isolated!!
« Reply #20 on: March 20, 2006, 09:54:37 pm »
I restarted and got the same results.
First I tried your first testbench.exe and 4,5,6,7,8,9 sawed really fast, 30,31,32 were constantly on.
Then I exited, all leds turned off.
I ran your second testbench.exe and all my leds sawed really fast.
Then I tried the first testbench.exe again; all my leds sawed really fast.

Does it make any sense to you?

I'm going to have to leave it for tonight (past my bedtime and all that). I hope I was of some help.

southpaw13

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Re: USB problem isolated!!
« Reply #21 on: March 20, 2006, 09:58:16 pm »
Hello, I got 14 hooked up and they seem to be sawing correctly.  I now have a headache and eye burn-in watching this stuff.  Do you think this is hardware or software related?  I would think that it is a hardware issue, but I really have no clue....

JoyMonkey

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Re: USB problem isolated!!
« Reply #22 on: March 20, 2006, 10:01:03 pm »
I was about to shut down the computer and I thought I'd give it one more test. I restarted and tried the second testbench.exe
I got the same results as the first testbench.exe (4,5,6,7,8,9 saw, 30,31,32 are on).

Then I tried the first testbench.exe; same results.

Then I tried the second one again; same thing, 30,31,32 still aren't sawing.

Tried each one a couple more times and eventually the second testbench.exe got them all sawing.

 ???

MikeQ

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Re: USB problem isolated!!
« Reply #23 on: March 20, 2006, 10:05:53 pm »
Ok, thanks.  The second one makes my hub issue go away but it doesn't involve an Nvidia chipset.

MikeQ

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Re: USB problem isolated!!
« Reply #24 on: March 20, 2006, 10:30:33 pm »
Something I've noticed is that once the LEDWiz is in a funk, it will stay that way.  If you get back to it at some point, try testbench 1 and 2 from a clean boot.

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Re: USB problem isolated!!
« Reply #25 on: March 21, 2006, 02:41:22 am »
I'd just like to throw in some sligtly unrelated commentary here. 

Why are you guys running mame cabs with nvidia anything on them?  Haven't you heard us old timers preaching about how nvidia cards/chipsets/whatever suck for mame since oh.... around 1997.  Use only ati products or just don't bother.  ;)

Hope this stuff gets sorted out soon. 

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Re: USB problem isolated!!
« Reply #26 on: March 21, 2006, 06:45:34 am »
Heh, maybe true of the graphics cards (I've never used anything but ATI ever since I tried a All-in-Wonder Pro. Ok so 3D on a RagePro was not exactly awesome but that card could do everything) but nforce motherboards are not bad...

I'm please to see progress is made. I've got a LedWiz, although I've not had a chance to hook it up yet. But I do have nforce 2, nforce 2 ultra 400, ati xpress200 and via based chipset motherboards I could set up and test if its needed - although sounds like lots of people are on the case....

JoyMonkey

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Re: USB problem isolated!!
« Reply #27 on: March 21, 2006, 07:14:17 am »
I'd just like to throw in some sligtly unrelated commentary here. 

Why are you guys running mame cabs with nvidia anything on them?  Haven't you heard us old timers preaching about how nvidia cards/chipsets/whatever suck for mame since oh.... around 1997.  Use only ati products or just don't bother.  ;)

Hope this stuff gets sorted out soon. 

FWIW I'm not using my nForce2 based machine in a Mame cab, I'm just trying to narrow down the LedWiz issue for other people out there.

JoyMonkey

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Re: USB problem isolated!!
« Reply #28 on: March 21, 2006, 07:23:04 am »
Something I've noticed is that once the LEDWiz is in a funk, it will stay that way.  If you get back to it at some point, try testbench 1 and 2 from a clean boot.

I'll give it a try tonight.


On another note, does anyone know if there is an alternative USB driver that I could try using?
Again, here's the driver that my nForce2 board is using:


And is this the same driver that everybody elses troublesome nForce boards are using?

southpaw13

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Re: USB problem isolated!!
« Reply #29 on: March 21, 2006, 07:55:09 am »
Yes, that is the driver that is giving everyone the problems.  FWIW, I decided to use NVIDIA chipsets because my cabs double as a Daphne emulator also.  Daphne and ATI don't mix well together.  I have not run into any major problems with NVIDIA and Mame...
Maybe I should switch to Via chipsets with a NVIDIA video card?

Southpaw

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Re: USB problem isolated!!
« Reply #30 on: March 21, 2006, 08:06:03 am »
Joymonkey,
1. I's not a driver issue. (In reality, I can't say this for sure, but it is highly unlikey to be a driver issue).
2.  If you have the LEDWiz connected directly to the PC meaning no hub, then it's not connected to the ECHI controller.  It's connected to one of the OHCI controllers.


Can we get a list of the specs of the hubs it fails with as well?  i.e. 1.1 or 2.0 hubs and if you are really good can you pop the top on the hub and see who makes the chip.

Anyone with a chipset besides Intel, Via or Nvidia? Or using a PCI USB 2.0 card not using a Via Chip?



I plan to put my portable analyzer on it later to see if it is what I think it is, but I may not have time to test every scenario and I may be completely wrong.


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Re: USB problem isolated!!
« Reply #31 on: March 21, 2006, 08:20:50 am »
I don't have a rar'er.
http://www.rarlab.com/download.htm For future reference - WinRAR.  Says trial, but just gives nag screens after expiration period - like WinZip does.
It's not what you take when you leave this world behind you, it's what you leave behind you when you go. - R. Travis.
When all is said and done, generally much more is SAID than DONE.

MikeQ

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Re: USB problem isolated!!
« Reply #32 on: March 21, 2006, 08:39:45 am »
I don't have a rar'er.
http://www.rarlab.com/download.htm For future reference - WinRAR.  Says trial, but just gives nag screens after expiration period - like WinZip does.

Ya, I know.  I just didn't want to go download and install one last night.  We were in the heat of battle and I wanted to get the test run.   I have winrar on another machine but not the one I was using.

MikeQ

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Re: USB problem isolated!!
« Reply #33 on: March 21, 2006, 08:55:18 am »
Joymonkey,
1. I's not a driver issue. (In reality, I can't say this for sure, but it is highly unlikey to be a driver issue).
2.  If you have the LEDWiz connected directly to the PC meaning no hub, then it's not connected to the ECHI controller.  It's connected to one of the OHCI controllers.


Can we get a list of the specs of the hubs it fails with as well?  i.e. 1.1 or 2.0 hubs and if you are really good can you pop the top on the hub and see who makes the chip.

Anyone with a chipset besides Intel, Via or Nvidia? Or using a PCI USB 2.0 card not using a Via Chip?



I plan to put my portable analyzer on it later to see if it is what I think it is, but I may not have time to test every scenario and I may be completely wrong.



I've actually have a workaround for the hub issue.  One other person had a hub issue too.  I need to get them the test to see if it works on their machine/hub.  The hub issue appears to have something to do with timing and buffer flushes.  The LWZ-PBA command that we are having trouble with is a multi-report command.  If I flush the buffers to the controller between reports, the HUB works fine.

It is a usb 2.0 hub.  Its is a "Travel Hub" branded by Staples.  It is really a Belkin however.  I've had it open but don't have the chip id.  I can check later.

This didn't appear to fix the Nforce problem though.  JoyMonkey needs to retest from a clean boot though.

MikeQ

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Re: USB problem isolated!!
« Reply #34 on: March 21, 2006, 09:12:07 am »
I have another test I'd like someone to run on one of the offending Nvidia chipsets.

You can download the zip file here: www.unappliedbraincells.com/test/LEDWizTest.zip

It is only about 45k.

This appears to fix the problem on my Athlon64 4800+ with nforce4 chipset.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2006, 09:45:36 am by MikeQ »

Tiger-Heli

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Re: USB problem isolated!!
« Reply #35 on: March 21, 2006, 09:36:18 am »
This appears to fix the problem on my Athlon64 4800+ with nforce4 chipset.
Didn't know they had a processor that fast even available yet  8) ;D ;)
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MikeQ

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Re: USB problem isolated!!
« Reply #36 on: March 21, 2006, 09:47:48 am »
This appears to fix the problem on my Athlon64 4800+ with nforce4 chipset.
Didn't know they had a processor that fast even available yet  8) ;D ;)

It is a dual core package that internally is really 2 2400mhz processors.

2600

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Re: USB problem isolated!!
« Reply #37 on: March 21, 2006, 04:43:07 pm »
Mike,
What was the difference between the first test and the second?

It worked with my hub, and just realized I should probably of put that test under the analyzer as well.  Need to find a 2.0 PCI card and compare my results with that as well.

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Re: USB problem isolated!!
« Reply #38 on: March 21, 2006, 06:07:13 pm »
I have another test I'd like someone to run on one of the offending Nvidia chipsets.

You can download the zip file here: www.unappliedbraincells.com/test/LEDWizTest.zip

It is only about 45k.

This appears to fix the problem on my Athlon64 4800+ with nforce4 chipset.

I just tested this new one (I'll call it testbench3).
Without a clean boot, all my outputs saw quickly seven times, then once a little slower, then it repeats the sequence.

I'll try doing a clean boot now...

With a clean boot, it performs the same sequence (all my outputs saw quickly seven times, the once a little slower), but not as fast as without a clean boot.

Again, I've only got nine outputs hooked up (4,5,6,7,8,9,30,31,32).
« Last Edit: March 21, 2006, 06:15:20 pm by JoyMonkey »

southpaw13

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Re: USB problem isolated!!
« Reply #39 on: March 21, 2006, 07:45:54 pm »
I got 1-14 hooked up and I installed test3 on my Via and 2 Nvidia's.  The results are wonderful!  All 3 systems run the program 100% the same...

Southpaw

  
 

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