possible artwork solution for non-artists/newbies

[Frostillicus]

I apologize for the length - so if you use illustration programs just skip to the middle of this message....

Seems like a lot of requests for high res artwork lately...so here's my suggestion: learn a vector graphics program like illustrator.  I give this advice because I'm sure there are some newbies who have no idea how produce large CLEAN images like marquees, overlays, sideart, etc without horrible pixelation or smoothing.

I won't get into the specifics, you can do some simple research on the web for "vector vs. raster" if you want details(there's a TON of info out there, and a bunch in the archives here if you search correctly).      But I will say that if you commit some time and energy to planning and learning your way around the program then you will have some seriously sharp and excellent artwork.

----------
For a quick example, I drew the mame logo in illustrator and added a different typeface.  Only took about 20 minutes - though I do this for a living.  Here's what it looks like:
(click to download)

..its resizable with no loss of quality because it's a vector image -  blow it up as big as you want - It would look 'OK' by itself, but I would recommend using it as just a piece of a more substantial design, like adding a background or something.  Change the colors, stroke, etc. Customize it.  This could get someone started, in other words, instead of creating totally from scratch.

Even tho it's a small zip file(141kB) I'll only have this up for a few days if anyone wants to grab it - I don't have a lot of monthly bandwidth :(  Tho if Oscar's art gallery wants it or this board's art section or anyone else for that matter, feel free to host it wherever.   I couldn't use it on my last cab but hopefully on my next one.

To me the artwork on a cab is the ultimate expression of the machine, and the best opportunity for individualism - and therefore, IMHO, the most important part.

[16el]

Thanks!

[crashdmj]

Whats a good vector program?

[neuromancer]

Whats a good vector program?

For us graphic artist types, whose companies write off the expense of the software, Adobe Illustrator rules.

A lot of folks like Corel Draw. The drawing module is (or at least used to be) available fairly inexpensively.

I've seen some references to Killustrator, for Koffice which runs under KDE in Linux. I don't really know Linux. Can someone comment on Killustrator?

Bob

[_Iz-]

I just don't get it...  Could you try another example, say a monitor bezel 23"w x 28" high for us slow learners??    

[Howard_Casto]

Frosty, while your suggestion is appreciated, I, in good conscience cannot reccomend vector graphics to any novist.  

There are a few reasons why:  

#1 Vector translation is not an automatic process.....  While there are various "auto vector" programs, every single one of them does a farily sh*tty job.  The only way to do vector graphics right is to trace each color by hand.  If you are skilled enogh to do that well then you should be making your own graphics.  

#2 Because of what I said above you are limited to the number of colors your artwork can have.... After about 6 or 7 color layers, your hands start to give out and it pointless to try to add more.  Plus the time involved is incredible.  While this is acceptable for simple, non-shaded cartoon characters and flat logos, it's not for more advanced graphics.  

For some examples of bad vector graphics made from images with far too many colors check out the dragon's den.  (No offense to anyone who's ever contributed to them.  There is good artwork available over there, but it's based on subjects with simple color palettes.)

#3 I skirted on the subject above, but I must say it again.  Vector tracing is HARD.... It's actually just as difficult if not more so, than redrawing the entire piece by hand, because essentially that is what you are doing but there are added technical constraints regarding the color layers and the line widths, ect that you have to learn.    


So again, a good suggestion. But it only applies to people who are already good with digital imaging, not novices.  Perhaps you under-estimate the skill level required to do it because you can do it.  I know I've made that mistake before so I now know better.

 

[PoDunkMoFo]

Actually I would say that just the opposite is true Howard.

We are not talking about tracing other artwork here we are talking about creating from scratch.

As an example you could easily go to the sega font website mentioned in another post.  Download some cool fonts.  Simply layout some text ad a chrome type gradiant fill  (usually already preset for you).

If you want bitmap images you can import them into your artwork.  Some vector software even has auto tracing built in if you want to vecotrize bitmap stuff.
Of course if you embed bitmap graphics your file size will grow and you won't be able to scale without grainy problems.

Basically when you design in vector programs you are building images with basic geometry and fills.  In my opinion much simpler then working in a bitmap program.

Even as kids we learn to draw basic geometrics before we pick up a paintbrush.

[Frostillicus]

Frosty, while your suggestion is appreciated, I, in good conscience cannot reccomend vector graphics to any novist.  

There are a few reasons why:  

#1 Vector translation is not an automatic process.....  While there are various "auto vector" programs, every single one of them does a farily sh*tty job.  The only way to do vector graphics right is to trace each color by hand.  If you are skilled enogh to do that well then you should be making your own graphics.  

#2 Because of what I said above you are limited to the number of colors your artwork can have.... After about 6 or 7 color layers, your hands start to give out and it pointless to try to add more.  Plus the time involved is incredible.  While this is acceptable for simple, non-shaded cartoon characters and flat logos, it's not for more advanced graphics.  

For some examples of bad vector graphics made from images with far too many colors check out the dragon's den.  (No offense to anyone who's ever contributed to them.  There is good artwork available over there, but it's based on subjects with simple color palettes.)

#3 I skirted on the subject above, but I must say it again.  Vector tracing is HARD.... It's actually just as difficult if not more so, than redrawing the entire piece by hand, because essentially that is what you are doing but there are added technical constraints regarding the color layers and the line widths, ect that you have to learn.    


So again, a good suggestion. But it only applies to people who are already good with digital imaging, not novices.  Perhaps you under-estimate the skill level required to do it because you can do it.  I know I've made that mistake before so I now know better.

 

Ok some good points you mentioned, yet to produce anything of value and quality, it's gonna take some hard work to learn.  And some time to execute.   It all depends on the complexity of the image.  The only tool worthwhile in illustrator is the pen tool, and learning that only takes a few hours.  After that it's just a matter of using it.  

your points:
#1:  I've never been happy with any auto-vector program.  IMO they all suck.  Which is why I recommend either tracing your own art or grabbing a little gif of a game design you like and have at it.  It's gonna take time to make, but it'll be worth it.  It's been reeeeaaaalllly slow at work lately so I've been recreating some artwork of some capcom characters for my fighting panel.  morrigan and bison alone took 4 hours each - but they look incredible, especially after adding some little touches in photoshop.  

#2:   limited colors in vector images is generally true, because they aren't bitmaps, of course.  BUT, look at the classic games - pacman, joust, DK, etc and check out their artwork - many of them used stencils.  Take, for example, the DK marquee - easily able to reproduce in vectors if you apply yourself.  You can divide the whole thing into solid shapes of the consistent colors.  I don't like gradients - to me they look pretty cheesy and done to death.  

#3: I wouldn't say vector tracing is HARD, but it does have a steep learning curve.  But what doesn't in this hobby?  If newbs can set up front-ends these days then they can do this(took me a while to configure Game Launcher )It doesn't take much artistic ability to know that this shape looks like this and that shape is that color, etc.    

I want to think anyone can do it, at least, but I suppose it might be beyond some people's grasp.  I think a lot of times people building cabs or converting cabs skimp on the aesthetic factor, something that should be focused on more.   My first cab, for example is stark black, but I can't add anything to it(not mine anymore), but my next one is gonna have some great artwork on it.   Maybe I can throw together a little step-by step for people who are totally new to these programs...hmmmm....maybe if it's still slow at work next week

[_Iz-]

OK, I'm attempting to make a marquee, this is just prelim so let me know whatcha think.

[marcoval]

I'm actually willing to learn this if I can just figure out where to get a program. Illustrator has a demo and I might be able to work it off that.

IZ, not to shabby!

[)p(]

#2:   limited colors in vector images is generally true, because they aren't bitmaps, of course.  BUT, look at the classic games - pacman, joust, DK, etc and check out their artwork - many of them used stencils.  Take, for example, the DK marquee - easily able to reproduce in vectors if you apply yourself.  You can divide the whole thing into solid shapes of the consistent colors.  I don't like gradients - to me they look pretty cheesy and done to death.

Yes I agree for those of us that want classical style cabs the graphics will be in most cases simple with only a few colors. And most people should be able to create ok results with not  to much of an effort. I also used Illustrator for the vector graphics in my fe and the cp overlay on my cab. But any drawing program should do. For beginners it may be better to use something more simple then illustrator. For example a lot of people have a copy of flash lying around...it can be easily used for not to complex marquees and cp etc.

peter

[Carsten Carlos]

Yes I agree for those of us that want classical style cabs the graphics will be in most cases simple with only a few colors.

Thought that, too - but unfortunately the Centipede marquee artwork I want seems to be more complicated then it did on first sight. Colors are not the problem, but there is still many stencilwork in it.

[neuromancer]

#3 I skirted on the subject above, but I must say it again.  Vector tracing is HARD.... It's actually just as
 

Hard? "Tedious as hell" I'll go for. Hard? All you do is click the control points and drag the handles until the curves match. I did it with an insanely complicated graphic on a 486 in order to learn Corel Draw years ago. It took me days to get it right, but there was nothing hard about it.

Adobe Illustrator is also a much better program for doing any sort of layout of raster graphics, because you can mix and match resolutions, and rescale graphics without any resampling. And if you have a high res image on one part of of your layout, you don't have to create a huge file like you would in Photoshop.

Bob

[SirPoonga]

*chanting* I see someone with artistic ability creating a classic arcade figure vector graphic website