Main > Main Forum

Leaf spring switches...where'd they go?

Pages: << < (4/14) > >>

Level42:

OK, get a microswitch. Start pushing it very lightly, then slowly increase the pressure. At a certain point (pressure) it will "snap" and make contact....now KEEP IT PRESSED. Next, SLOWLY reduce the pressure...again, it takes quite some time to let it "snap" back into rest position (even so, this release point is at less presure than needed to MAKE the contact).

So, this is actualy what you are doing when pressing a microswitch button when playing a game. Of course, this goes fairly quickly, but never as quickly as possible with a leaf.

One big pro on the leafs has not been mentioned here yet: it is adjustable to your likings ! You can bend (slightly !!!) to a position that you like it to work. Personaly, I like my buttons to make contact VERY early. So, my leafs are already nearly touching eachother when NOT pushed. They only need a little bit of travel of the button to actuate them.

And again, here there is no "pressure point" you need to reach to make the contact. There is only the leaf "spring" resistance, which is very little and the moment you make contact, you get the resistance of the second leaf, IF you push it all the way down (which I don't normaly when playing games like 1942 etc.)

Other people might like to have a long travel and let the contact be made near the lowest (fully pressed) position of the button. (In practice, when rapid firing, a user will keep the button halfway (not release it completely) when it is set up like this.

The thing is, after some time you feel where the leafs make contact.

I also like it that leafs only bend a bit when being pushed. All in all it just feels nicer.

I also wanted leaf joysticks, but they do have some drawbacks, like no availability. There are cheap Chinese made sticks, DO NOT BUY THEME (So called Wico-like on e-bay). If you want a good leaf-stick, try to find original Wico's.

The alternative I choose for are Suzo Inductive joysticks. NO contacts at all (!!) and work fantastic. (Somewhat like the Happ opticals, but with a different approuch. I like the Suzo style more though, because I'm from Europe and grew up with these sticks (again short travel=quick, you need SPEED on your controls if you want to beat a game)....

And yes I can deliver leafs and buttons, and pretty much everything else Suzo sells. For reasonable prices. PM me if you are interesed and what you need.

MaximRecoil:


--- Quote ---OK, get a microswitch. Start pushing it very lightly, then slowly increase the pressure. At a certain point (pressure) it will "snap" and make contact....now KEEP IT PRESSED. Next, SLOWLY reduce the pressure...again, it takes quite some time to let it "snap" back into rest position (even so, this release point is at less presure than needed to MAKE the contact).
--- End quote ---

Yeah, I understand the concept, I just don't believe that people are precise enough or fast enough to realize a difference here. A robot could be programmed to repeatedly press and release a leafswitch button in a manner that when it released it it only released it by the exact amount necessary to open the switch, so that there was less than a hair's width separating the contacts. Now, with a given constant top speed of the robotic arm, it could generate more button presses per second than with a microswitch, because the distance it would have to travel to open and close the switch would be less.

But, in the grand scheme of things, the difference in distance is so small that no one could consistently keep their finger motion/travel in an envelope that is enough to open and close a leaf switch but not enough to open and close a microswitch and at the same time maintain their top button pressing speed.

I would have to see it to believe it (scientific tests).

80sMike:


--- Quote ---I would have to see it to believe it (scientific tests).
--- End quote ---

When I was a kid I was the Track and Field champ at the local Round Table Pizza.  Back then every kid had their own version of the "run like hell" cheat in their back pocket...A trusty hair comb.  There was a way you could use the comb to bridge between the run buttons and if you didn't mash too hard you could run like hell...Nearly twice as fast as the two-handed mashers.   

There was another T&F machine at the bowling alley across town that had the leafs adjusted a bit differently so that contact was made with a deeper press, and I consistantly had worse showings.

When I built my first CP I used microswitch buttons and T&F was one of the first games I fired up to see if I still had any skillz.  I raided the medicine cabinet and found an old comb and tried my run like hell technique...Utter disaster.  I felt like a polio victim in leg braces, clickity clickity clacking down the track like Forrest Gump.  Maybe not scientific, but I haven't built another CP with micros... ;D

They may cost 2-3 times as much, but nothing reminds me of the glory days at the old Round Table like leafs.   :)

RayB:


--- Quote from: MaximRecoil on December 21, 2005, 07:02:01 pm ---Yeah, I understand the concept, I just don't believe that people are precise enough or fast enough to realize a difference here. A robot could be programmed to repeatedly press and release a leafswitch button in a manner that when it released it it only released it by the exact amount necessary to open the switch, so that there was less than a hair's width separating the contacts. Now, with a given constant top speed of the robotic arm, it could generate more button presses per second than with a microswitch, because the distance it would have to travel to open and close the switch would be less.

But, in the grand scheme of things, the difference in distance is so small that no one could consistently keep their finger motion/travel in an envelope that is enough to open and close a leaf switch but not enough to open and close a microswitch and at the same time maintain their top button pressing speed.

I would have to see it to believe it (scientific tests).

--- End quote ---

Yeah, and in my opinion it's impossible to beat Sandman in that certain punching game... you know...

With leaf buttons that are finely tuned the way they are supposed to, all you gotta do is alternately bounce your index and middle finger over each button lightly. I'd get insane run speeds with that technique. Can't do that with microswtiches because they require enough force to make the switch click in.


MaximRecoil:


--- Quote ---Yeah, and in my opinion it's impossible to beat Sandman in that certain punching game... you know...
--- End quote ---

Punch-Out is very marathonable; I've never played much past 1.5 million (an hour per million in that game) but the world record is 16 million which is insane considering the game offers pretty much zero opportunity for breaks. SPO = not so easy. The world record for the arcade is a very low 182K or so, and the record for Mame is a much better, but still somewhat low 448K. I'm up to 738K on my machine now and I am right on the verge of being able to marathon it. It certainly keeps you on your toes, a lot more so than Punch-Out which is pretty much an autopilot game once you have the hang of it.

Anyway, special techniques for taking advantage of the faster open/close times of a leaf switch never occurred to me. I was thinking of one button and one finger. Either way, since there have been a couple of testimonials here, I'll take you guys' word for it.

Pages: << < (4/14) > >>

Go to full version