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Author Topic: Using car speakers in a cab  (Read 12979 times)

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Silverwind

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Using car speakers in a cab
« on: January 31, 2003, 05:38:22 pm »
Hello,

I have a polk audio component set I would like to use with my cab if possible.  They already have grilles and everything so should work well..  I was going to plop them in my car.. but have changed my mind for the moment ;)

it is a pair of 6 1/2" woofers with 3/4" tweeters.. with crossovers

What is the most cost effective way to power these?  Preferably I would like a 25-50w per channel amplifier to make decent use of these speakers..

Where/What to get to power these?  I want to try and stay away from a car amp if possible..  whatever is the cheapest/best value however..

It has to be able to support 4ohm stereo as the speakers are 4ohm... yes I could wire them series but then i'd lose stereo capability ;)

Any ideas?

ashardin

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Re:Using car speakers in a cab
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2003, 06:07:40 pm »
You *could* use a normal, cheap, 8 ohm home stereo amp to drive those.  Yeah, it'll probably go bad at some point, but just be careful not to turn it up too far.

I'm sure many people will tell you not to do this and give you good reasons for it, but you're not supposed to speed either.

You could find a home amp that drives into 4 ohms, but they are usually the higher quality and more expesive ones.

Check Ebay, some of those "glorified boomboxes" that have a radio, cd, and tape and detachable speakers drive at 4 ohms.  Sellers like Realcrazymo salvage that stuff and resell it, you might jsut find what your are looking for.

Then again, you could get a used car and and 12v 10amp power supply for ~$100 on ebay as well, and not worry about the other stuff.




Tehrasha

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Re:Using car speakers in a cab
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2003, 09:59:50 pm »
Then again, you could get a used car and and 12v 10amp power supply for ~$100 on ebay as well, and not worry about the other stuff.

I used a two car audio amplifiers and a couple extra CPU powersupplies and a case I had lying about.  40w/channel is more than you want to stand directly in front of. :)

http://www.tehrasha.mamehost.com/mame/audio.html



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Silverwind

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Re:Using car speakers in a cab
« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2003, 12:24:05 am »
Then again, you could get a used car and and 12v 10amp power supply for ~$100 on ebay as well, and not worry about the other stuff.

I used a two car audio amplifiers and a couple extra CPU powersupplies and a case I had lying about.  40w/channel is more than you want to stand directly in front of. :)

http://www.tehrasha.mamehost.com/mame/audio.html





hmm that's a good idea.. does it work pretty well??  Do you use the +12v and ground of the PSU?(+12v is about the same as a car with engine off)

you have two amps.. so I suppose you run one off each PSU...

heh I like the speaker terminals instead of the expansion slot brackets :P

elfman12

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Re:Using car speakers in a cab
« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2003, 12:53:11 am »
it is a pair of 6 1/2" woofers with 3/4" tweeters.. with crossovers

Any ideas?

Just be sure and shield the monitor/TV from the speaker magnets, or mount them far enough away. They'll wreak havoc on the display if you don't. I found that out the hard way and had to change plans midstream.

(Hey, I'm at a hundred posts, now! WooHoo!)
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Re:Using car speakers in a cab
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2003, 09:40:41 am »
Just be sure and shield the monitor/TV from the speaker magnets, or mount them far enough away. They'll wreak havoc on the display if you don't. I found that out the hard way and had to change plans midstream.

(Hey, I'm at a hundred posts, now! WooHoo!)

well.. the magnets aren't that large on them.. and I plan to put them in the traditional spot up by the marquee.. being an upright cab i'm not sure if proximity will be a problem or not..

how would I go about shielding anyhow?

elfman12

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Re:Using car speakers in a cab
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2003, 12:27:03 pm »
well.. the magnets aren't that large on them.. and I plan to put them in the traditional spot up by the marquee.. being an upright cab i'm not sure if proximity will be a problem or not..

how would I go about shielding anyhow?

Actually, you'd be surprised at how powerful those magnets can be. The best way to test is to turn on the TV or monitor you're going to use, then hold the speakers near it, at the same distance they will be in your cab.

I'm not really sure about shielding them. I think that a metal plate will stop some of the interference, but you'd probably have to experiment with it. ...maybe kryptonite? <g>
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Re:Using car speakers in a cab
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2003, 12:31:33 pm »
well.. the magnets aren't that large on them.. and I plan to put them in the traditional spot up by the marquee.. being an upright cab i'm not sure if proximity will be a problem or not..

how would I go about shielding anyhow?

Actually, you'd be surprised at how powerful those magnets can be. The best way to test is to turn on the TV or monitor you're going to use, then hold the speakers near it, at the same distance they will be in your cab.

I'm not really sure about shielding them. I think that a metal plate will stop some of the interference, but you'd probably have to experiment with it. ...maybe kryptonite? <g>

they don't have to be on do they? hehe..  would hate to buy the amp and etc to find out they won't work..  anyhow i'll hold them near my PC monitor and see what they do... hehe ;)

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Re:Using car speakers in a cab
« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2003, 01:25:02 pm »
A thin piece of sheet steel makes an excellent magnetic sheild.

1. Don't the the magnet touch it. If it does it becomes sort of a magnetic amplifier.
2. Don't let anything electronic touch it. It'll short out. (Duh)
3. It doesn't have to be big. Just between the magnet and picture tube. If the speaker in in it's own boxed space, just line the box with the sheet steel.
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elfman12

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Re:Using car speakers in a cab
« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2003, 01:29:38 pm »
they don't have to be on do they? hehe..  would hate to buy the amp and etc to find out they won't work..  anyhow i'll hold them near my PC monitor and see what they do... hehe ;)

No, they don't need to be on - it's the permanent magnets that cause the interference. You'll see as you move them around the monitor... looks phsycadelic!
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Re:Using car speakers in a cab
« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2003, 02:47:06 pm »
A thin piece of sheet steel makes an excellent magnetic sheild.

1. Don't the the magnet touch it. If it does it becomes sort of a magnetic amplifier.
2. Don't let anything electronic touch it. It'll short out. (Duh)
3. It doesn't have to be big. Just between the magnet and picture tube. If the speaker in in it's own boxed space, just line the box with the sheet steel.

ok.. so line the inside of my marquee area with a thin layer of sheet metal? hehe  must be tough to cut circles?

are there any other things that will sheild it also?

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Re:Using car speakers in a cab
« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2003, 05:07:38 pm »
ok.. so line the inside of my marquee area with a thin layer of sheet metal? hehe  must be tough to cut circles?

are there any other things that will sheild it also?

See this thread, http://www.arcadecontrols.org/yabbse/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=3150.

There are links to pics of my speakers that I used bucking magnets on to sheild them.


Silverwind

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Re:Using car speakers in a cab
« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2003, 12:35:26 pm »
Then again, you could get a used car and and 12v 10amp power supply for ~$100 on ebay as well, and not worry about the other stuff.

I used a two car audio amplifiers and a couple extra CPU powersupplies and a case I had lying about.  40w/channel is more than you want to stand directly in front of. :)

http://www.tehrasha.mamehost.com/mame/audio.html





regarding hooking up a car audio amplifier with ATX power supply...

would it be safe to hook up two power supplies to the power terminal on the amplifier?  (IE 12 volt current, but maybe 15amps from each ATX psu?)

I have access to some spare power supplies laying around.. so this would be a real cheap fix..

for these.. i won't do much more than 50w rms per channel..

Tehrasha

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Re:Using car speakers in a cab
« Reply #13 on: February 04, 2003, 03:07:24 pm »
regarding hooking up a car audio amplifier with ATX power supply...

would it be safe to hook up two power supplies to the power terminal on the amplifier?  (IE 12 volt current, but maybe 15amps from each ATX psu?)

I have access to some spare power supplies laying around.. so this would be a real cheap fix..

for these.. i won't do much more than 50w rms per channel..

I think I know what you mean.  Hook two PSU in parallel to double the current to the amplifier.
I had considered doing that, but I was afraid that if the voltage regulators in teh two supplies were not matched they would begin fighting each other.  So I never hooked them up to see what would happen.

The 300W supplies I used are rated at 12Amps at 12Volts.  so thats 144Watts total.
I took a stab at 60% efficiency, so thats 86Watts of efefctive power.
And split that between two audio cannels, for about 43W/channe.
Thats where I got the VERY rough figure of 40W/channel maximum.

My volume control goes to 11, and while standing in front of it playing games, you dont want to go much above 6.  ;D
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Silverwind

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Re:Using car speakers in a cab
« Reply #14 on: February 04, 2003, 03:34:32 pm »
regarding hooking up a car audio amplifier with ATX power supply...

would it be safe to hook up two power supplies to the power terminal on the amplifier?  (IE 12 volt current, but maybe 15amps from each ATX psu?)

I have access to some spare power supplies laying around.. so this would be a real cheap fix..

for these.. i won't do much more than 50w rms per channel..

I think I know what you mean.  Hook two PSU in parallel to double the current to the amplifier.
I had considered doing that, but I was afraid that if the voltage regulators in teh two supplies were not matched they would begin fighting each other.  So I never hooked them up to see what would happen.

The 300W supplies I used are rated at 12Amps at 12Volts.  so thats 144Watts total.
I took a stab at 60% efficiency, so thats 86Watts of efefctive power.
And split that between two audio cannels, for about 43W/channe.
Thats where I got the VERY rough figure of 40W/channel maximum.

My volume control goes to 11, and while standing in front of it playing games, you dont want to go much above 6.  ;D

yeah.. hehe.. i don't plan on playing it TOO loud.. since your head won't be too far from the speakers.. just want some decent RMS to ensure good full-range response..

What do you mean about the power supplies "fighting" eachother?  The current should only be flowing into the amplifier..

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Re:Using car speakers in a cab
« Reply #15 on: February 04, 2003, 05:01:48 pm »
What do you mean about the power supplies "fighting" eachother?  The current should only be flowing into the amplifier..

Example:

The voltage regulator in PS#1 is +12.005v
The voltage regulator in PS#2 is +12.000v
Hook the two of them together and you would think that it would balance out somewhere between those two values.

But then PS#1 thinks the voltage is two low and tries to bump it up.
And PS#2 sees too high of a voltage and tries to drag it back down.
What started out as a voltage diff of only .005v could easily become a Catch22 of several volts. :o
Eventually one of the two is gonna fry the other as they fight to maintain what each one thinks is the ideal voltage.

--Teh
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Re:Using car speakers in a cab
« Reply #16 on: February 04, 2003, 05:02:47 pm »
Hmmm... my cabinet has two 100W card speakers, plus a subwoofer from a computer speaker set.  I also have a Radio Shack 40W "booster" (2x20W) that I wanted to put in there to power the speakers for the jukebox mode, but I never could find a good power source...

Right now, I have the amplifier board from a cheap CyberAcoustics speaker set; it's about 7W total (1.5W to each satellite and 4W to the subwoofer).  The original satellites were 4 ohms, so the car speakers work fine.  Should I:

- Attach the 40W amp between the amplifier board and the satellites?
- Attach the 40W amp between the computer and the amplifier board?
- Replace the amplifier board with the 40W amp and a dual gang stereo taper pot for volume control, eliminating the subwoofer?

And how much power should a 40W amp require?  I tried a 12V line from a 250W AT power supply, but the moment I turned on the amp it would cut out....

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Re:Using car speakers in a cab
« Reply #17 on: February 05, 2003, 08:58:15 am »
I saw this thread and thought I'd give it a try since I still need an audio setup for my cabinet.

I had a pair of 6.5" bose subwoofers from my car, and a 60w x 2 (I think) Sony car audio amp.  I hooked this up with an old AT power supply and it worked.  On a very low volume, it was WAY too loud, this was with the speakers just laying on the floor (would probably be even louder in an enclosed cabinet).  I think these subs are only about 2 ohms each so that might explain why it was so loud.

Anyway, I have a few questions:

1) I used a black and yellow wire from the power supply.  My voltmeter wouldn't work!  Is this the 12v supply or the 5v?

2) Does anyone know of any very inexpensive equalizers?  This setup had far too many highs and mids.  If I can get a cheap passive eq I'm sure I could get a satisfactor sound out of this setup.

3) The subs have HUGE magnets.  Almost as big around as the speakers themselves.  I have a feeling I will need shielding.  Can I just use some of the aluminum flashing sold at Lowes/Home Depot?  Any tips?

Thanks!
Wade

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Re:Using car speakers in a cab
« Reply #18 on: February 05, 2003, 09:50:31 am »
I had a pair of 6.5" bose subwoofers from my car, and a 60w x 2 (I think) Sony car audio amp.  I hooked this up with an old AT power supply and it worked.  
Hmm... if you could get a 60Wx2 running with an AT power supply, why couldn't I run a 20Wx2?

What was the wattage of your AT power supply?  Do you know how many amps are provided on the 12V line (it may be on the label)?

Thanks...

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Re:Using car speakers in a cab
« Reply #19 on: February 05, 2003, 10:42:59 am »
I had a pair of 6.5" bose subwoofers from my car, and a 60w x 2 (I think) Sony car audio amp.  I hooked this up with an old AT power supply and it worked.  
Hmm... if you could get a 60Wx2 running with an AT power supply, why couldn't I run a 20Wx2?

What was the wattage of your AT power supply?  Do you know how many amps are provided on the 12V line (it may be on the label)?

Thanks...

--Chris

I'm not sure about the wattage but it was from an older PC, probably 200W.  I can check all this tonight.  It did have the amps listed on the label.

Just because it worked doesn't mean it would work for a long time if I had it turned up loud.  It might burn something up if I did.

So is the yellow and black line the 12V or the 5V?

Thanks,
Wade

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Re:Using car speakers in a cab
« Reply #20 on: February 05, 2003, 10:52:27 am »
So is the yellow and black line the 12V or the 5V?
Yellow and black is 12V, red and black is 5V, according to my DMM.

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Re:Using car speakers in a cab
« Reply #21 on: February 05, 2003, 11:16:18 am »
Thanks.  I'll check the wattages and amps on the amp and power supply tonight.

Wade

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Re:Using car speakers in a cab
« Reply #22 on: February 05, 2003, 11:31:23 am »
What do you mean about the power supplies "fighting" eachother?  The current should only be flowing into the amplifier..

Example:

The voltage regulator in PS#1 is +12.005v
The voltage regulator in PS#2 is +12.000v
Hook the two of them together and you would think that it would balance out somewhere between those two values.

But then PS#1 thinks the voltage is two low and tries to bump it up.
And PS#2 sees too high of a voltage and tries to drag it back down.
What started out as a voltage diff of only .005v could easily become a Catch22 of several volts. :o
Eventually one of the two is gonna fry the other as they fight to maintain what each one thinks is the ideal voltage.

--Teh

Would the power supply even notice a voltage difference?  The amp probably will be sucking up all the juice anyway.. where would the return voltage come from.. the ground?


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Re:Using car speakers in a cab
« Reply #23 on: February 05, 2003, 01:01:25 pm »
Can't you just get a 10W 4ohm dummy load from radio shack?

then drive the damn thing w/whatever.....
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Re:Using car speakers in a cab
« Reply #24 on: February 05, 2003, 01:49:30 pm »
Can't you just get a 10W 4ohm dummy load from radio shack?

then drive the damn thing w/whatever.....

I don't think I quite understand...  what's a 10W 4ohm dummy load?  I got the 10w and the 4ohm part... but how does this fit into the equation?

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Re:Using car speakers in a cab
« Reply #25 on: February 05, 2003, 02:24:29 pm »
I don't think I quite understand...  what's a 10W 4ohm dummy load?  I got the 10w and the 4ohm part... but how does this fit into the equation?

I think Elkor was trying to help Wade with driving the 2ohm speakers with his amp by loading the amp more appropriately.  But since he didnt quote anything in his responce, it was hard to tell and I may be wrong.

As for the whole dual PSU thing, I dont really want to take this into an entire 'theory of powersupply operation' thread.
In every case that I have seen where you need more current, you use a bigger power supply, you do not chain two together.

For Wade, yes, the yellow wire is the +12volts  and the red is +5volts.

For Chris and his amplifier that shuts off when sound is applied?
How is it hooked up?  The amplifier should have three wires for power, a black (gnd) a red (+12v) and a orange or yellow for 'turn on'
You should have the +12 and 'turn-on' tied together, and hooked to the yellow (+12) from the computer power supply.
Also I would go    computer-->double-ganged volume control-->amplifier-->speakers
Using the sub/sat amplifier stage in there wont do any good.  I would also look into building a crossover so you can use both the sub and the sat speakers.

For anyone else following this thread, keep in mind that you MUST use a seperate powersupply for this, and NOT draw power from the same power supply that is running your computer.
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Re:Using car speakers in a cab
« Reply #26 on: February 05, 2003, 02:32:10 pm »
For anyone else following this thread, keep in mind that you MUST use a seperate powersupply for this, and NOT draw power from the same power supply that is running your computer.
Heh... I found that one out the hard way, very quickly.  :)  Thank you for your advice!  I'll take a look at the wiring and give it another go.

--Chris
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Re:Using car speakers in a cab
« Reply #27 on: February 05, 2003, 03:07:25 pm »
Quote
For anyone else following this thread, keep in mind that you MUST use a seperate powersupply for this, and NOT draw power from the same power supply that is running your computer.

Any special reason for this, or is it only for most powersupplies won't have enough power left for a caramp additional to the PC?



Tehrasha

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Re:Using car speakers in a cab
« Reply #28 on: February 05, 2003, 04:54:19 pm »
Quote
For anyone else following this thread, keep in mind that you MUST use a seperate powersupply for this, and NOT draw power from the same power supply that is running your computer.

Any special reason for this, or is it only for most powersupplies won't have enough power left for a caramp additional to the PC?

That is the main reason.  Your computer PSU is pretty much running at a constant current, except for startup when the drives suck alot of power to spin up.  So fluxuations in the voltages are kept to a minimum.

With an audio amp hooked up, especially one that is rated at a higher output than the supply is capable of handling, you have the potential of some very large voltage changes during loud sounds/music.
Your computer and harddrives would be very unhappy if its supply voltage dipped from +12v to +10v for half a second, and if it was enough of a current draw, it could also effect the +5v side of the supply which would be VERY bad for your computer.  The audio amp could care less about causing such a dip.  It just wouldnt be quite as loud for half a second.

I should experiment with my setup and see how much the unused +5v side of my supplies vary with heavy use of the audio amp....
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Re:Using car speakers in a cab
« Reply #29 on: February 05, 2003, 05:41:40 pm »
Sorry, OT.  Teh, you live:)  You aren't just a Teh_away in IRC:)

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Re:Using car speakers in a cab
« Reply #30 on: February 05, 2003, 07:17:22 pm »
Sorry, OT.  Teh, you live:)  You aren't just a Teh_away in IRC:)

Its my cabinet that is /away... havent done much with it for about 6 months.

Most times that I am at my terminal there isnt anybody in channel, so I just stay /away.
I should spend more time there, and get my butt in gear on my cabinet.

oh.. btw, I log everything, so i know all about those things you and planetjay have been saying behind my back. :o

 :D  j/k  :D

--Teh
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Re:Using car speakers in a cab
« Reply #31 on: February 06, 2003, 08:37:10 am »
Sorry I didn't provide enough info....

Yes, Tehrasha, that's what I was trying to say.

Basically: put an appropriate load in series with the 4ohm speakers to bring the toatal load to 8ohms per channel.

I couldn't find a 4ohm load in the 'shack catalog online but they did have an 8...

http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F010%5F001%5F006%5F000&product%5Fid=271%2D120

put two of these in parallel and then put the group in series w/your auto speakers.    Then you can drive it with any houshold amp.....


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Re:Using car speakers in a cab
« Reply #32 on: February 09, 2003, 12:29:30 pm »
I checked my power supply, it is 200 watts.  My amp doesn't say on it, but going from memory I'm almost certain it was a 2 x 60 watt amp.

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Re:Using car speakers in a cab
« Reply #33 on: February 09, 2003, 02:54:35 pm »
To be on the safe side, I bought a 12V/10A powersupply from Ebay yesterday. I hate these noisy fans of PC-supplies anyway!



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Re:Using car speakers in a cab
« Reply #34 on: February 09, 2003, 04:17:22 pm »
To be on the safe side, I bought a 12V/10A powersupply from Ebay yesterday. I hate these noisy fans of PC-supplies anyway!

I hope its a switching powersupply, otherwise you may get alot of 50/60Hz hum on your speakers.

For those keeping score... 12V * 10A  * 60% efficiency / 2 channels == 36W/channel  Audio  (estimated)
Should be plenty loud enough. :D
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Re:Using car speakers in a cab
« Reply #35 on: February 10, 2003, 01:47:05 pm »
Basically: put an appropriate load in series with the 4ohm speakers to bring the toatal load to 8ohms per channel.

I couldn't find a 4ohm load in the 'shack catalog online but they did have an 8...

http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F010%5F001%5F006%5F000&product%5Fid=271%2D120

put two of these in parallel and then put the group in series w/your auto speakers.    Then you can drive it with any houshold amp.....
I highly recommend Radio Shack's SA-155 mini stereo amp ($25-$30 used on ebay).  Accepts 8-16 ohm loads per channel.  Plenty loud, and great range with a set of 6" speakers (typically found in cabinets today).  The amp is so small it generates practically no heat, and doesn't require ventaliation like most home stereos (perfect for inside a cab).

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Re:Using car speakers in a cab
« Reply #36 on: February 18, 2003, 01:23:54 pm »
I decided to test my setup last weekend and turn up the volume a lot.

It would only play for a few seconds and then the power supply would die.  At first I thought I smoked it, but if I would unplug it and plug it back in, it would start working again.  Apparently it has some kind of overload protection.

My car audio amp has a 25 amp fuze in it.  The power supply lists the 12V line as 8 amps.

I don't think I'm going to use this setup.  Seems like a waste to have that extra power supply and the relatively powerful amp in the cab if I can't even turn it up.

Wade

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Re:Using car speakers in a cab
« Reply #37 on: February 18, 2003, 02:03:26 pm »
My car audio amp has a 25 amp fuze in it.  The power supply lists the 12V line as 8 amps.

So thats a fuse rating of 300Watts, 60%, 2 channels, somewhere around 90W/channel

I don't think I'm going to use this setup.  Seems like a waste to have that extra power supply and the relatively powerful amp in the cab if I can't even turn it up.

No need to turn it up so loudly that you cant stand in front of the cabinet to play it.
If you have an extra PS and amp lying baout gathering dust, its an excellent and cheap way to give your cabinet some boost.
But I certainly wouldnt recommend going out and spending cash to accomplish the same thing.

I wish I still hade my old 40W/channel Radio Shack EQ/Booster from the 80's... that would have been ideal.
Ouch! 90W/channel... i wouldnt want that vibrating my harddrives.  I worry enough about my 40W/channel 8" subs
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Re:Using car speakers in a cab
« Reply #38 on: February 18, 2003, 02:09:47 pm »
I'm pretty sure its a 60w x 2 channel amp but it might have a peak output higher than that.

I was thinking, if it worked well/load enough I could use it like a jukebox too.  No biggie though, I have a stereo after all. ;)

I like the cheap radio shack amp idea.  I may go that route.  First I will probably try just using the amp in the sound card (if it has one).  One of my really old sound cards actually worked reasonably well when attached to some low power speakers I had.  Not sure if this particular sound car has any power behind it at all though, will just have to try it.

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Re:Using car speakers in a cab
« Reply #39 on: February 18, 2003, 02:37:19 pm »
My car audio amp has a 25 amp fuze in it.  The power supply lists the 12V line as 8 amps.

So thats a fuse rating of 300Watts, 60%, 2 channels, somewhere around 90W/channel

I don't think I'm going to use this setup.  Seems like a waste to have that extra power supply and the relatively powerful amp in the cab if I can't even turn it up.

No need to turn it up so loudly that you cant stand in front of the cabinet to play it.
If you have an extra PS and amp lying baout gathering dust, its an excellent and cheap way to give your cabinet some boost.
But I certainly wouldnt recommend going out and spending cash to accomplish the same thing.

I wish I still hade my old 40W/channel Radio Shack EQ/Booster from the 80's... that would have been ideal.
Ouch! 90W/channel... i wouldnt want that vibrating my harddrives.  I worry enough about my 40W/channel 8" subs

8amp on the +12v is rather low too.. some beefier supplies have up to 15amp on the +12v (more if you want to spend some $$)

I already have the component speakers.. and they were about $180 new.. and have not been used.. still new in box.. so don't want to waste em..

car amps are typically much cheaper than home amps for the power..  Right now i'm looking at about $60 for 80w x 2 amp (or $50 for 50w x 2 amp) and then run it off pc power supply..  worse comes to worse i'll buy a larger power supply with 15amp on the +12v.. probably another 20-30 bucks for a no frills model..

i've looked on the radio shack site.. saw that mini-amp dealbob.. didn't look too bad.. but wonder how much juice it puts out at 4ohm stereo?