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Author Topic: Trackball help in Mame / Golden Tee  (Read 9767 times)

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dpeeples

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Trackball help in Mame / Golden Tee
« on: October 31, 2005, 02:47:54 pm »
I have up and running a Happ 2 1/4 trackball, conected thru an Ultimarc Mini-pac board.  All games work great and as I expect them to work with just some tweaking to the sensitivity setting in the tab memu with the exceptoin of the Golden Tee games.   On the goldem tee games when I try and swing like I would swing in a aracade I get really bad swings when I spin the ball fast.   When I spin it slower I can get really nice swings.  I have tried lowering sensitivity and upping it and at lower settings I cant get good swings at all, at higher 65% I get nice swings but again its not like in the aracde.   Am I doing something wrong?  Windows settings?  Something else in the tab menu for the analog controls I need to change?

Any help is appreciated.   I have gotten used to how the game plays as is now but the hard part is making soft / short shots in this setting.

Also in the Tab menu in mame for the analog controls what does the digital setting do for the trackball?

Dave

castlesteve

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Re: Trackball help in Mame / Golden Tee
« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2005, 02:33:05 pm »

I'm replying to bump this and to add some input

I have the exact same problem... and believe the only fix is to use a PS2 mouse hack to interface the trackball.  You ask why... here's what I've found

1)  I've adjusted everything and still have the same problem.  Including disabling mouse acceleration, adjusting velocity, adjusting analog sensitivity and digital speed. etc etc.  no dice.
2)  Those who have it working say to change the mouse settings in the control panel to a sample rate of 200 and disable the fast init.

The problem resides is that using the MINIpac in USB mode *which is the only way to use the trackball input on the MINIpac* is defined in windows an HID device... and not a mouse, and therefore does not have access to these settings.

So, by hacking a PS2 mouse and interfacing thru it... then you can access more detailed settings in WinXP.  Sucks, but there is light (i hope).

I'm trying this tonite.  Although the Ultimarc MINIpac is an excellent device and very convenient, I think it may be it's one shortcoming, although no one has admitted to this yet.   It really only has to do with excessive GT drives (which is the reason i bought it).

 

-steve

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Re: Trackball help in Mame / Golden Tee
« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2005, 07:48:02 pm »
I have the exact same problem... and believe the only fix is to use a PS2 mouse hack to interface the trackball.  You ask why... here's what I've found

1)  I've adjusted everything and still have the same problem.  Including disabling mouse acceleration, adjusting velocity, adjusting analog sensitivity and digital speed. etc etc.  no dice.
2)  Those who have it working say to change the mouse settings in the control panel to a sample rate of 200 and disable the fast init.

The problem resides is that using the MINIpac in USB mode *which is the only way to use the trackball input on the MINIpac* is defined in windows an HID device... and not a mouse, and therefore does not have access to these settings.

So, by hacking a PS2 mouse and interfacing thru it... then you can access more detailed settings in WinXP.  Sucks, but there is light (i hope).

Umm, I think you're mixing up some things.  First, MiniPAC is seen as a mouse.  If it wasn't, mame wouldn't see it as a mouse.

Next, DirectX DirectInput (which mame using to read all inputs) is not supposed to be effected by windows mouse settings according to MS documentation: "Because Microsoft DirectInput communicates directly with the mouse driver, the values for mouse speed and acceleration set by the user in Control Panel do not affect this data."

The problem with MS's doc is that dX dInput talks to the driver, not the hardware itself.  So if the driver is designed to be directly effected by the control panel (it's not supposed to, but some MS drivers seem to, amoung others), the control panel settings do effect those devices.  So, depending on the driver being used, the control panel setting may or may not have any effects in mame.  (Mind you, all hardware uses a driver; when you hear "Does not need a driver" really means "uses a standard (preinstalled) windows driver" or "does not need a special driver".)

See if using a different driver helps fix your problems of the control panel settings not effecting mame.  Some people like the IntelliMouse driver; I've never tried it.


...On the goldem tee games when I try and swing like I would swing in a aracade I get really bad swings when I spin the ball fast. When I spin it slower I can get really nice swings. I have tried lowering sensitivity and upping it and at lower settings I cant get good swings at all, at higher 65% I get nice swings but again its not like in the aracde. Am I doing something wrong? Windows settings? Something else in the tab menu for the analog controls I need to change?

Any help is appreciated. I have gotten used to how the game plays as is now but the hard part is making soft / short shots in this setting.

I'm not sure what you mean by "bad swings".  Is it "mouse backspin", were the faster TB spins seem to go slower or backwards (than the slower spins) in mame?  What about on the desktop?

I'd try disabling windows accelaration (ie: unclick "enhance pointer precision" in XP) and see if that helps on GT.

Quote
Also in the Tab menu in mame for the analog controls what does the digital setting do for the trackball?

If you want to use a digital device, say a keyboard, those setting are used by mame for it's simulation of an analog input to the game (which the game is expecting).  It's not supposed to effect inputs from TBs, but try setting the speed to 1.  Sometime a high speed seems to increase the chance of mouse backspin fo some reason.
Robin
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castlesteve

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Re: Trackball help in Mame / Golden Tee
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2005, 08:44:29 am »

Thank you for some clarification.  There seems to be a proliferation of wrong advice when it comes to the mouse settings.  You are so far the first that I have come across who have put an explanation to what I have experienced.

What I have experienced is that when I roll the ball (say UP)... the pointer will sit STILL and then gradually start moving up as the ball slows down.... until it the ball is at a speed where the encoder is maxed out.   I;m also going to check the +5V supply.  Wondering if the beam is bright enough (are we sure that the Happ Trackballs run at +5V and not +12V?) 


As an experiement, i went and hacked an old microsoft mouse and went that way.  It was actually worse... which kind of got me thinking that it was because of the bus speed (directly to PS2) or because of the generic driver I was using.

I'll have to check back about the MINIpac only though.  I could swear that when it is plugged in by itself into USB that the only device that shows up is the HID compliant device... which doesnt have mouse properties available in the control panel.

So, does anyone have a suggestion on either a different MINIpac driver or PS2 Mouse Driver?


frodak99

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Re: Trackball help in Mame / Golden Tee
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2016, 11:53:59 am »
I'm bumping a really old thread, as all of my tinkering and all of my web searches suggest that this is still an issue.  Does anyone have any suggestions to get the trackball in mame to act like the trackball on a dedicated golden tee game.  If it matters, I'm playing GT Fore! Complete. 

DarthMarino

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Re: Trackball help in Mame / Golden Tee
« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2016, 06:58:03 pm »
Are you using the Happ 2.25" trackball with an Ultimarc Mini-pac like the original poster or another trackball?  How are you mapping the trackball in MAME?

frodak99

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Re: Trackball help in Mame / Golden Tee
« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2016, 11:32:58 am »
Darth Marino, thanks for replying to my post.  I've enjoyed and learned a lot from other threads you contributed to and some of your videos I've found posted.  It is a 2.25" trackball but isn't Happ.  In Mame, the trackball is listed as Mouse 1 in Trackball X analog and Trackball Y analog.

frodak99

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Re: Trackball help in Mame / Golden Tee
« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2016, 12:09:05 pm »
I almost forgot, I am using the Ultimarc Minipac

DarthMarino

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Re: Trackball help in Mame / Golden Tee
« Reply #8 on: July 01, 2016, 07:07:23 pm »
If this is an issue with every Minipac, I'm not sure what can be done.  Can you post a video of the issue? What other trackball games have you tried with it without issues?

frodak99

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Re: Trackball help in Mame / Golden Tee
« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2016, 10:04:53 am »
Just in case anyone happens upon this thread in the future, my trackball had a bad y-axis board.  I put a new trackball in and the game works great.

djrobx

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Re: Trackball help in Mame / Golden Tee
« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2017, 04:52:41 pm »
I am also using a Happ trackball + U-Hid Mini.   The trackball works perfectly well in Windows.    I'm just having trouble dialing in the sensitivity in  MAME.    Problem is it's been so long since I've played a real Crystal Castles that I don't remember how sensitive it *should* be.    Can someone share the sensitivity settings they're using with Happ?