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Author Topic: Powerstrip writeup  (Read 76332 times)

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menace

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Powerstrip writeup
« on: September 29, 2005, 08:51:08 am »
Do you guys think it would be a valuable addition tot he FAQ to have a writeup on how to setup and configure powerstrip or is this considering a niche process?  If we think it would be a good idea--is anyone willing to take this on?  I have never worked with it so I wouldn't do it justice I'm sure.

thoughts?
its better to not post and be thought a fool, then to whip out your keyboard and remove all doubt...

wpcmame

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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2005, 11:22:38 am »
Here is a start

1. Windows XP on arcade monitor.

The aim om this guide is to setup an environment where applications running under Windows XP (including the desktop) works together with a low-res arcade monitor. It should be noted that even if applications such as word processing, internet surfing etc can be run on a low-res monitor, the picture quality (i.e. interlace flicker) is not suitable for longer periods of time. Games and movies does not suffer from this and works fine.

The guide only deals with the software involved. I use Ultimarc's J-PAC to connect my monitor to the graphics card but that is not necessary.

2. Software used.

In theory, no special software is required to run windows on an arcade monitor. The normal graphic card driver is fully cabable of outputting the correct signals for the monitor. However, the graphic card driver doesn't normally include a user interface for setting up resolutions outside the standard 640x480, 800x600 etc. To avoid messing with windows registry settings this guide uses a tool "powerstrip" from EntechTaiwan.com. There are other tools available but I have not tested them.

PowerStrip got 2 functions that we will use here:
1. It allows you to create custom resolutions and tweak existing resolutions via a graphical user interface.
2. It can automatically change the timing of the display whenever it changes. E.g. when a game asks for a VGA resolution (640x480), powerstrip will automatically convert it into a resolution that works with the arcade monitor (640x480 interlaced).

3. Step-by-step guide

3.1 Install PowerStrip
Just download the trial version from www.entechtaiwan.com and run. The trial
version is fully functional but got a time limit (365 days) and a nag screen.

3.2 Verify that your graphic card driver works with an arcade monitor.
Obviously you need a VGA monitor to perform these actions.
(If any of the items mentioned below isn't available, your graphcs card/driver doesn't support custom resolutions. Not much to do but get another graphic card)
1. Right-click on the powerstrip icon in the taskbar and select Display Properties/Change
2. Click on advanced settings
3. Click on "Custom Resolutions".
4. Go all the way down in the list of resolutions to the one that is labelled "640x480i (arcade)".
5. Select it and click on "add new resolution".
6. Powerstrip will now ask for confirmation and then switch to the new
« Last Edit: October 02, 2005, 01:35:31 pm by wpcmame »

wpcmame

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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2005, 05:21:14 pm »
Here are the values for the AVGA resolutions (with doubled horizontal resolution)

How to use them:
1. Close powerstrip
2. Open the file powerstrip.ini
3. Add the following lines under the [Custom Resolutions] heading.
(If the heading doesn't exist, just create it at the end of the file)

[Custom Resolutions]
480x240=480,16,48,32,240,4,3,15,9072,7
512x240=512,16,48,40,240,4,3,15,9702,7
512x256=512,16,48,40,256,4,3,17,9702,7
512x264=512,16,48,40,264,5,3,17,9702,7
576x240=576,8,56,48,240,4,3,15,10836,7
592x240=592,16,56,48,240,4,3,15,11214,7
608x240=608,16,64,40,240,4,3,15,11466,7
768x240=768,16,80,56,240,4,3,15,14490,7
640x240=640,16,64,48,240,4,3,15,12096,7
640x256=640,16,64,48,256,4,3,17,12096,7
672x240=672,16,64,56,240,4,3,15,12726,7
704x256=704,24,72,48,256,4,3,17,13356,7
704x264=704,24,72,48,264,5,3,17,13356,7
704x288=704,24,72,48,288,5,3,19,13356,7
736x240=736,16,72,56,240,4,3,15,13860,7
784x240=784,24,80,56,240,4,3,15,14868,7
768x288=768,16,80,56,288,5,3,19,14490,7
424x272=424,16,40,32,272,4,3,18,8064,7
448x240=448,8,48,32,240,4,3,15,8442,7
512x240=512,16,48,40,240,4,3,15,9702,7
512x288=512,16,48,40,288,5,3,19,9702,7
632x264=632,16,64,48,264,5,3,17,11970,7
640x288=640,16,64,48,288,5,3,19,12096,7
800x288=800,24,80,56,288,5,3,19,15120,7

4. Save the file and start powerstrip
5. Go to to the "Custom resolutions" window.
6. Select "user defined" resolutions.
7. Mark all resolutions in the window
8. Click "add resolution" and restart windows if necessary.

All resolutions should now be available. To test them:
mame gauntlet -resolution 672x240

To change the windows desktop to one of these resolutions use the right slider in powerstrip. (The resolution will not be available in Windows' display properties)

This procedure worked for me with both a Radeon9200SE and a GeForce2.

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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2005, 09:57:31 am »
First off - Excellent write up and very informative.... I've finally mastered the quirky art of powerstrip, but there lots of stuff I didn't know - such as the minlines= option. Very helpful.

I was starting to build up some resolutions for testing (I have an odd monitor I'm tresting the limits of), based on MonitorGuru's excellent list of used Mame resolutions:

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=42485.0

Although you could have saved a lot of work here. I'm also assuming that once this is setup you need to tell mame which resolution to use for which game - I believe there are a couple of utils available to do this....

Quote
3. A mame game displayed at 672x240 instead of 336x240 makes no difference in the pixture. The images will look exactly the same (yes, exactly).

Can't test at the moment, but how does this work exactly? Are you not streching the screen size out? Does mame only use some of the screen? (What stretching settings are you using?)

MonitorGuru

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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2005, 10:11:16 am »
Excellent write up.  I havn't used windows to run mame or powerstrip but this is very helpful for those that do.  Thanks for the effort.

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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2005, 11:29:16 am »
In fact this should go into some kind of FAQ - there always loads of "help me with powerstrip" questions around.

The only thing I could suggest is advice for getting out of the situation where you can't see the picture. Ctrl-Alt-S for some reason does not always work on my machine, I have no idea why. I've got out of the problem my using VNC - just logging in from another machine, and changing the settings that way.

wpcmame

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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2005, 03:50:18 am »
Although you could have saved a lot of work here. I'm also assuming that once this is setup you need to tell mame which resolution to use for which game - I believe there are a couple of utils available to do this....
For most games you don't need to specify anything. A resolution with double horizontal resolution is preferred as second best choise by mame (after the one with exact resolution). The AVGA resolution tool might work as well if it can read resolutions from a configuration file. The good thing with the powerstrip solution (compared to AVGA) is that it is easy to add a new resolution if needed.

I choosed a different approach and modified the mame source so that it reads a resolution based ini file at startup, e.g. 336x240H.ini. That way I can set options (resolution, syncrefresh, stretch etc) for each resolution instead of for each game. I did submit the patch to mame a long time ago but I guess they didn't see the need.

Quote
3. A mame game displayed at 672x240 instead of 336x240 makes no difference in the pixture. The images will look exactly the same (yes, exactly).
Quote
Can't test at the moment, but how does this work exactly? Are you not streching the screen size out? Does mame only use some of the screen? (What stretching settings are you using?)
The theory is the following: the monitor is an analog device which knows nothing about pixels. It only gets information from the graphic card saying that this area should be blue. If the signal from the graphic card comes from a single wide blue pixel or two thinner consecutive blue pixels doesn't matter.

MAME will automaticly stretch the image by doubling each pixel. By default there are probably some filtering made which might distort the image slightly (haven't checked). You can turn the filtering of by either turning hardwarestrecth off "-nohws" or use direct3d.

desmatic

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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2005, 05:04:22 am »
hey wpcmame, what the heck does the 7 stand for at the end of each modeline entry. 

If you post the complete syntax for a powerstrip entry, I'll add it to lrmc so that you don't have to manually edit the output. 

There's also a new feature in the version I'm currently debugging that will calculate all mame modelines using the mame --listxml option, so given the right syntax and the right configuration, you can calculate all mame modelines using one simple command like

lrmc mamelist.xml -cga --highpclock > modelinelist

« Last Edit: October 01, 2005, 05:07:35 am by desmatic »

wpcmame

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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2005, 02:42:52 pm »
hey wpcmame, what the heck does the 7 stand for at the end of each modeline entry.

desmatic

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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2005, 12:26:32 pm »
Thanks.  I'll add it to the next revision, which will hopefully be up by the end of the week.

wpcmame

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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #10 on: October 02, 2005, 01:45:48 pm »
Has anyone tried the procedure above and can confirm that it works for others? Anything that needs better description?

Maybe a quick guide could be added like:
1. install powerstrip
2. Edit inifile and add resolutions
3. Add custom resolutions
4. run mame.

If it works it shouldn't take anyone more than 10 minutes to have something that works like the AVGA (except the boot screen of course).

What I didn't mention above is that if you choose a custom resolution as desktop (e.g. 640x288, 768x576) you don't need powerstrip at all once everything is working  Windows will automaticly use the custom resolution timing on startup. This is specially useful if you use the trial version with the nagscreen.

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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #11 on: October 06, 2005, 08:56:19 pm »
Yes I was going to ask - once powerstrip adds resolutions to the registry, is it required at all or can windows just go off the reg settings?

In terms of a setupguide, I imagine the abilities of the monitor used may have an impact.... What horizontal/vertical scan frequencies do those doubled modes generate?

Afraid I've had to pack up my mulitsync and am back on a flatscreen so can absolutely no testing otherwise I'd be on it.

dabone

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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #12 on: October 06, 2005, 10:21:56 pm »
Tried this a couple of nights ago, and couldn't get any games looking great.

The modes were added correctly, but the hwstretch function made everything blurry.
(think of turning the focus on the monitor just a hair off)
It's not that easy to see, but if you have a arcadevga card system next to a powerstrip system, the difference is VERY noticable.
You can tell the cards are doing some AA to the pic and it blurs them out.

Turning hwstretch off gave a sharp pic, but is was shrunken horziontaly.
Also, nohws (No hardware stretch) is incredibly slow.


This was tested with a radeon 9600 pro and a Geforce 5200, both 128 meg agp cards.

The motherboard was a biostar ideq system (linky http://www.biostar-usa.com/ideqdetails.asp?model=ideq+210p

With a semperon 3100 cpu and a gig of ram, windows xp pro.


I cheated and have been doing my testing on a d9200, so I have the full range 15/25/31.5 to play with.
The modes are well and good, but without a way to fill the screen WITHOUT AA on the image, it's not going to look like a avga.

The avga looks so good because to use it correctly, you DISABLE hws in mame.


Later,
dabone




wpcmame

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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #13 on: October 07, 2005, 03:45:43 am »
The modes were added correctly, but the hwstretch function made everything blurry.
(think of turning the focus on the monitor just a hair off)
It's not that easy to see, but if you have a arcadevga card system next to a powerstrip system, the difference is VERY noticable.
You can tell the cards are doing some AA to the pic and it blurs them out.
That is known problem with directdraw. Mame added the option to use d3d just beacuse of that.

Don't remember the options right now but I think it is
-d3d -flt 0
(could be that you need -d3dprescale  as well)

Quote
Turning hwstretch off gave a sharp pic, but is was shrunken horziontaly.
Strange, mame should use software stretch then.
Quote

Also, nohws (No hardware stretch) is incredibly slow.
Even more strange. Why would it be slower if the image isn't stretched at all?

dabone

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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #14 on: October 07, 2005, 10:00:30 am »
I'll give those options a try this weekend and report back on how it looks.


Later,
dabone


P.S. I've got access to alot of different cards/chipsets.

Currently in stock,
ATI X300, X550, 9200, 9600 Pro, 9550, 7000.
Nvidia Geforce MX4000, 5200, 6600,

Anyone have a particular one that they would like tested?


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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #15 on: October 07, 2005, 10:02:50 am »
If you disable hws in mame to get great results with an Avga, how can it suddenly be slow with no hws with another card? Maybe there is some other setting?

Not sure what -flt option is - does not seem to exist for me, unless its abbreviated. Could be the -d3dfilter...?

relevant settings from mame.ini:

ddraw                 0
direct3d              1
hwstretch           0
cleanstretch        none
effect                  none
screen_aspect           4:3

### Windows Direct3D 2D video options ###
zoom                    1 (this defaults to 2, try 1.. should be 1:1 zooming?)
d3dtexmanage     1
d3dfilter                0  (this is filtering which will have a blur effect - try 0)
d3dfeedback             0
d3dscan                 100
d3dprescale             none (try 'none' to disable - this is for scaling up)
d3deffect               none
# d3dcustom             <NULL> (not set)
# d3dexpert             <NULL> (not set)



EDIT: d3dfilter   1 (default) has a massive effect. It's bilinear filtering, and smooths the entire screen. Great for running lo-res games at something higher, but based on what we are trying to do here, this should be 0 to make everything nice and blocky....right?

As for cards - I'm interested in the radeon 9xxx series as they are completely unviable with Advancemame and windows.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2005, 10:13:00 am by Silver »

dabone

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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #16 on: October 07, 2005, 03:53:43 pm »
Quote
If you disable hws in mame to get great results with an Avga, how can it suddenly be slow with no hws with another card? Maybe there is some other setting?

I was trying to use clean stretch with hws disabled.

The avga is fast because there is no stretching going on, hardware or otherwise.


I've been playing on my desktop machine with the d3d and flt options.

These setting seem to get rid of the aa in the filter.
Quote
### Windows video options ###
autoframeskip           1
frameskip               0
waitvsync               0
triplebuffer            0
window                  0
ddraw                   0
direct3d                1
hwstretch               1
# screen                <NULL> (not set)
cleanstretch            auto
resolution              auto
refresh                 0
scanlines               0
switchres               1
switchbpp               1
maximize                1
keepaspect              1
matchrefresh            0
syncrefresh             0
throttle                1
full_screen_brightness   0.000000
frames_to_run           0
effect                  none
screen_aspect           4:3

### Windows Direct3D 2D video options ###
zoom                    2
d3dtexmanage            1
d3dfilter               0
d3dfeedback             0
d3dscan                 100
d3deffectrotate         1
d3dprescale             auto
d3deffect               none
# d3dcustom             <NULL> (not set)
# d3dexpert             <NULL> (not set)

Tomorrow, I'll try it on the 9200.

(In the office I just use a 640x240 resolution to test)


Later,
dabone

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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #17 on: October 07, 2005, 09:11:55 pm »
Let us know how it goes. Seeing as you have a 9200 I'd be interested to hear the results of both 320x240 and 640x240 compared.....(see if there is a noticeable difference or not).

Might be worth playing with the d3dzoom number as well (try 1 instead of 2) although this may have no effect if you are specifiying a resolution.

I don't believe cleanstretch has any effect with hardwarestretch off (clean stretch just restricts the stretching to positive integers)

desmatic

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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #18 on: October 08, 2005, 04:54:17 pm »
hey wpcmame, what the heck does the 7 stand for at the end of each modeline entry. 
This is what it says in the powerstrip FAQ

*Timing string parameter definition:
 1 = horizontal active pixels
 2 = horizontal front porch
 3 = horizontal sync width
 4 = horizontal back porch
 5 = vertical active pixels
 6 = vertical front porch
 7 = vertical sync width
 8 = vertical back porch
 9 = pixel clock in hertz
10 = timing flags, where bit:
     1 = negative horizontal porlarity
     2 = negative vertical polarity
     3 = interlaced
     5 = composite sync
     7 = sync-on-green
     all other bits reserved

(Note that flag bit 0 is reserved and that pixel clock is expressed in Khz not hertz)





Ok, I've done some more reading.  I read the faq entry that you're referring to, searched the forums, and googled for more info, but I still haven't been able to figure out how to calculate the last column.  From my research I'm guessing it's a 12 bit number with a few bits that are configurable, however, without knowing what the first bit should be, I really can't do anything.  In some configuration files i've found on the net, it's turn on (like in yours) but in most it's turned off.  I also can't find any info on doublescan modes. 

So the big question is, and I'm not expecting any one to know the answer to this:  should I set the first bit to, 1 or 0?  Based on your config file I was going to set it to 1.  Any ideas?

I've finished writing the next version of lrmc and was hoping to post the binaries today, but I just wanted to post first in case anyone knew anything.

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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #19 on: October 09, 2005, 10:54:21 am »
[quote author=desmatic link=topic=43728.msg414512#msg414512 Ok, I've done some more reading.

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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #20 on: October 11, 2005, 12:07:41 pm »
I've run into a dead end with my testing.

Apparently mame DOES NOT support stretching in just one direction.

Take for example defender.

294x239

this would take a 588x239 screen to avoid any stretching artifacts.

The closest we have here is 592x240. Now mame will try to fill that entire screen, INCLUDING THE ONE MORE SCANLINE... so vertical is screwy and the horz is scaled wrong also.

It's basically like this with any game that is not exactly 2x1.

Anyone want to modify mame to allow 2:1 horz stretching while leaving the vertical alone?


Later,
dabone


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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #21 on: October 11, 2005, 08:07:30 pm »
this would take a 588x239 screen to avoid any stretching artifacts.

The closest we have here is 592x240. Now mame will try to fill that entire screen, INCLUDING THE ONE MORE SCANLINE... so vertical is screwy and the horz is scaled wrong also.

Surely we would not want any stretching here. A unstretched 588x239 on a 592x240 would look fine (virtually unnoticable borders...).

Of course, when I say turn off streching, I'm going on what was mentioned above that 588 horizontal produces the same output as 244. But I have a feeling you are going to tell me that if you turn the streching off it only feels half the screen horizontally?

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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #22 on: October 12, 2005, 06:44:17 am »
Anyone want to modify mame to allow 2:1 horz stretching while leaving the vertical alone?
I have made such a modification.

The intention was to correct the the obviously broken aspect calculations in mame but that turned out to be more or less impossible.

The problems are:
1. MAME core is carrying around a load of old wrong data. (Thats the only explanation I can find for the "VIDEO_PIXEL_ASPECT_RATIO_1_2" flag. Almost every resolution in mame got a unique pixel aspect ratio, why does 1:2 and 2:1 need special care)

2. Misunderstandings. E.g. the windows.txt file contains the following description:
-screen_aspect

   Give a screen aspect ration in the form X:Y where X is the horizontal
   and Y the vertical part. Examples are 4:3 for most resolution settings
   on computer monitors, 5:4 for the 1280x1024 resolution or 3:4 for
   turnable LCD's in the turned position. The default is 4:3.

I wonder if the mamedevs think that your monitor magicly changes shape when you select the 1280x1024 resolution. As it is written, you should use differnt screen_aspects for every AVGA resolution.

3. The games aspect ratio is calculated differently depending on if hardware stretch is used or not. I have no idea why. It is done in several places so I assume it is intentional. (For hardware stretch the aspectx & aspecty values in the driver is used but for software stretch the aspect ratio is sizeX/SizeY)

4. Artwork uses a fixed 1:1 pixel aspect ratio so it will not display correctly on a properly setup monitor. (The "hole" in the artwork for the game display got correct proportions only if 1:1 pixels are used. You can easily see this if you look at the space invaders backdrop on an arcade monitor. The moon is shaped like an egg.)
I have been thinking of ways to convert the artwork code but my head starts spinning from all coordinate systems involved :-)

5. Automatic resolution selection only looks at the distance from the native resolution when picking. This means that doublesized resolutions are not considered since they are 100% off.

Anyway,

What I have done so far is:
- Corrected code in mame so that the game is scaled to display with the correct aspect ratio regardless of resolution. Using "-cleanstretch full" will use integer scaling to get as close to correct aspect ratio as possible.

There is a sideeffect to this which is kind of tricky to explain.
Lets take pacman as an example. Pacman uses resolution 224x288 on a 3:4 monitor. What resolution should pacman use in a window on a 640x480 desktop? 224x288 seem natural and that is what mame uses today if you have "keepaspectratio" enabled. But if you look at the aspect ratio, 224/288=7:9 which is wrong. For correct aspect ratio the resolution 216x288 should be used and this is what my code does. (using "-cleanstretch full" will revert to the old mame way)

- Corrected code so that hardware and software stretch works the same.

Problem here is that the default behaviour of mame will change unless a new parameter is added (really_keep_aspectratio ?) so I don't have much hope that the change will be included in mame. I will post a diff file here later.

(And a strange thing. When I write "aspect ratio" I often get an extra "n" at the end. Thought it was just me but now I have seen it in other places as well, e.g. windows.txt file)

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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #23 on: October 12, 2005, 07:02:17 am »
Blimey.


Right - did not realise that much modifcations to mame would be required. If things are broken in mame, I hope your submissions will fix them.

Does that mean all those doubled horizontal resolutions you posted earlier (640x240 etc...) are useless with vanilla mame as it can not stretch the horizontal without the vertical? Or am I missing something again...


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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #24 on: October 12, 2005, 08:10:59 am »
Does that mean all those doubled horizontal resolutions you posted earlier (640x240 etc...) are useless with vanilla mame as it can not stretch the horizontal without the vertical? Or am I missing something again...
No, they work fine. The problem only appears when you want to play a game where the resolution isn't a multiple of the game resolution.
320x240 work fine with 640x240 but 320x224 doesn't.

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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #25 on: October 12, 2005, 08:36:49 am »
Can you not just lose 4 lines?

Or use Powerstrip to create 640x224?

If you force mame to play a game at a set resolution with no stretching - will that not work but you just lose a couple of lines/gain a small border?

Sorry if these are stupid, but I can't test ATM.

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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #26 on: October 12, 2005, 08:59:39 am »
Or use Powerstrip to create 640x224?
That is possible.
A much better solution is to use interlace resolutions (that is what I do). That way mame automaticly stretches in both directions which works fine.
Picture difference with interlace is neglectable. (see attached pictures)
Quote
If you force mame to play a game at a set resolution with no stretching - will that not work but you just lose a couple of lines/gain a small border?
Yes but since many games use less than 400 horizontal pixels you need a low pixelclock to run them without stretching and not many cards handle that.

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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #27 on: October 12, 2005, 08:33:43 pm »
Nice pics....

So all the doubled horizontal vs original vertical resolutions you run in interlace mode?

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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #28 on: October 12, 2005, 11:13:48 pm »
4 things I have against that.

1. flicker
2. Flicker
3. FLICKER!
4. 30 fps, instead of 60.
 

(60hz screen, odd lines on the first pass, even on the second, maximum 30 fps.)

Later,
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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #29 on: October 13, 2005, 02:25:05 am »
I was wondering again about the possibility of creating almost all resolutions available in mame with a doubled horizontal Freq. in powerstrip.

Obviously correct the aspect ration scaling would be more preferable, but if not, this solution should work. Obviously lots of work, but once done its done and could be shared around?

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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #30 on: October 13, 2005, 02:33:58 am »
4 things I have against that.

1. flicker
2. Flicker
3. FLICKER!
4. 30 fps, instead of 60.
(60hz screen, odd lines on the first pass, even on the second, maximum 30 fps.)
1.

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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #31 on: October 13, 2005, 03:20:09 am »
I was wondering again about the possibility of creating almost all resolutions available in mame with a doubled horizontal Freq. in powerstrip.
That is possible. There is a limit in ATI's driver to around 20 custom resolution but later versions of powerstrip has a workaround that allows hundreds of resolutions.

But it is not necessary.

For my cabinet I made a list of all pixels aspect ratios and then grouped the games
« Last Edit: October 13, 2005, 03:35:31 am by wpcmame »

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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #32 on: October 13, 2005, 03:32:43 am »
RE: Interlace. Its worth noting that a windows screen always looks very flickery when interlaced.  Run a mame game and often you can't tell....

RE: Resolutions.

I've not been thinking about pixel aspect ratios enough. So you're trying to set games so they run at resolutions with the correct pixel aspect (makes sense). Does a 464x224 work on a 608x480 resolution? Scaling up would still leave  you with large borders top and bottom right?

ok a test:

aspect ratio
aspect ratio test
aspect ration

I added the n on the 3rd line. I did not intentionally add a n in my previous post....

EDIT: Hmmm no joy on the aspect ratio secret n adding.....

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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #33 on: October 13, 2005, 03:44:17 am »
I've not been thinking about pixel aspect ratios enough. So you're trying to set games so they run at resolutions with the correct pixel aspect (makes sense). Does a 464x224 work on a 608x480 resolution?
Probably not until I get my new aspect correct code into mame. Tested the code last night and it works fine execpt that resizing is a little jumpy when you run the game in a window. Will look at that tonight.
Quote
Scaling up would still leave

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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #34 on: October 13, 2005, 04:14:12 am »
Ok good that makes sense.... I hope your submission is accepted!

Also thanks for taking the time to answer all the quickfire resolution questions - its much appreciated.

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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #35 on: October 14, 2005, 05:36:30 am »
Here is a mame 101 version with the new aspect ratio calculations (and some other things I use but you can just ignore them).

Try it out and see how it works.

http://web.telia.com/~u84606172


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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #36 on: October 14, 2005, 06:34:44 pm »
ok the latest version of lrmc is up at http://lrmc.sourceforge.net/

I added a new option for powerstrip, though I haven't got around to testing it.  If anyone wants to test it, please let me know how it goes.


The new version of lrmc can calculate an entire modeline list in one command.  You'll need mame installed for this to work though.  An example of how to do this is listed below.

mame -listxml > mamelist.xml
lrmc mamelist.xml --powerstrip -cga > modelines.txt
notepad modelines.txt


enjoy.

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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #37 on: October 19, 2005, 11:05:35 pm »
I'm getting back to testing cards now, I hope to have some results posted this weekend.


Later,
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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #38 on: November 05, 2005, 01:28:55 pm »
I gave it a try using my 9600 XT, and well...it kinda worked,
« Last Edit: November 05, 2005, 01:30:50 pm by VooD »

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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #39 on: November 06, 2005, 01:39:40 pm »
I gave it a try using my 9600 XT, and well...it kinda worked,

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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #40 on: November 06, 2005, 04:37:26 pm »
VooD, you can do whatever you need with PowerStrip. You seem to lack the knowledge of how analog signals work. From a monitors standpoint, all "resolutions" working at or around the same horizontal scanning frecuency are the same (digital units may distinguish between differently polarized sync signals modes, but that's another story).

For a CGA (~15.7 KHz) mode, if you are not getting correct refresh rates is because you're not using the correct amount of lines. For a 60 Hz refresh rate, that translates into 262 lines, and 15720 Hz Hsync frecuency. I mean, ALL 60 Hz modes at that Hsync frecuency HAVE 262 lines. This is axiomatic: Hsync freq. = lines * refresh.
When you refer to 224 or 240 lines, you're referring to the active lines. Total mode lines = active lines + blanking lines. So you're missing the blanking lines, 38 for 224 line modes and 22 for 240 ones.

I heartily recommend you this tutorial:

Modeline howto / tutorial / help -- Cathode Ray Tubes (CRTs)


Cheers

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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #41 on: November 07, 2005, 06:21:24 am »
Barkuti ! Just wondering if you could help me with something here.

I have been using PowerStrip and Radeon-cards a couple of years now. My latest card is X850 (actually x1300 but that is not supported by PowerStrip yet). I use a scart television that I have "underscan"-adjusted.

Now to the problem: I cannot display the whole 240 active lines. It

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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #42 on: November 07, 2005, 09:30:43 am »
Mmm, haven't messed thoroughly with the issue but it seems SCART TV's share this problem in common. These may be "reserving" some front and back lines for unknown reasons to me.
Have you tried increasing front/backporch at the cost of the "width" lines? Maybe too few to be of any help, right?

Once I thought in asking Andy Warne about the red, green and blue lines that appeared on the upper part of the screen of my old desktop TV when connected to the AVGA (I corrected its overscan also). All modes shown them but only the ones with close to 90% or more active lines were being clipped. Sold it some time ago now so I forgot to investigate on it.

My arcade monitor should be in my hands in 2 to 3 days; we'll know for sure then. :police:


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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #43 on: November 14, 2005, 04:27:35 pm »
Quote
For a CGA (~15.7 KHz) mode, if you are not getting correct refresh rates is because you're not using the correct amount of lines. For a 60 Hz refresh rate, that translates into 262 lines, and 15720 Hz Hsync frecuency. I mean, ALL 60 Hz modes at that Hsync frecuency HAVE 262 lines. This is axiomatic: Hsync freq. = lines * refresh.
When you refer to 224 or 240 lines, you're referring to the active lines. Total mode lines = active lines + blanking lines. So you're missing the blanking lines, 38 for 224 line modes and 22 for 240 ones.


How do you think you setup powerstrip for proper 60hz display?

And how to tell mame that a 262 line mode in windows only has 240 active lines?


The mode lines I use from a earlier post.. i.e.

480x240=480,16,48,32,240,4,3,15,9072,7
512x240=512,16,48,40,240,4,3,15,9702,7
512x256=512,16,48,40,256,4,3,17,9702,7
512x264=512,16,48,40,264,5,3,17,9702,7
576x240=576,8,56,48,240,4,3,15,10836,7
592x240=592,16,56,48,240,4,3,15,11214,7
608x240=608,16,64,40,240,4,3,15,11466,7
768x240=768,16,80,56,240,4,3,15,14490,7
640x240=640,16,64,48,240,4,3,15,12096,7
640x256=640,16,64,48,256,4,3,17,12096,7
672x240=672,16,64,56,240,4,3,15,12726,7
704x256=704,24,72,48,256,4,3,17,13356,7
704x264=704,24,72,48,264,5,3,17,13356,7
704x288=704,24,72,48,288,5,3,19,13356,7
736x240=736,16,72,56,240,4,3,15,13860,7
784x240=784,24,80,56,240,4,3,15,14868,7
768x288=768,16,80,56,288,5,3,19,14490,7
424x272=424,16,40,32,272,4,3,18,8064,7
448x240=448,8,48,32,240,4,3,15,8442,7
512x240=512,16,48,40,240,4,3,15,9702,7
512x288=512,16,48,40,288,5,3,19,9702,7
632x264=632,16,64,48,264,5,3,17,11970,7
640x288=640,16,64,48,288,5,3,19,12096,7
800x288=800,24,80,56,288,5,3,19,15120,7


80% of those display correctly on a commodore 1084 monitor (and a d9200)
and display the correct amount of lines. (Be it 50 or 60hz)
The front and back porch defines the retrace period.
Not the active number of lines. (If you notice the 50hz and 60hz modes have different front porch values)

I keep running into the problem when I try to use the lower pclocks
the card and computer locks up or generates a unusable display.

This is with nvidia and ati radeon chips.

To me the powerstip solution seems to be a dead end at the moment, along with
advmame under windows. (no support for the newer video cards)

I would love to put a good video card into my main mame system, my arcadevga 9200 based version really sucks at house of the dead 3.


Later,
dabone


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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #44 on: November 15, 2005, 04:31:58 am »
I keep running into the problem when I try to use the lower pclocks
the card and computer locks up or generates a unusable display.
Saw this thread in the powerstrip forum.

http://www.entechtaiwan.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2903

Maybe that solves the low pixel clock problems.

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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #45 on: November 19, 2005, 01:11:01 pm »

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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #46 on: November 19, 2005, 01:21:02 pm »
VooD, you can do whatever you need with PowerStrip. You seem to lack the knowledge of how analog signals work. From a monitors standpoint, all "resolutions" working at or around the same horizontal scanning frecuency are the same (digital units may distinguish between differently polarized sync signals modes, but that's another story).

For a CGA (~15.7 KHz) mode, if you are not getting correct refresh rates is because you're not using the correct amount of lines. For a 60 Hz refresh rate, that translates into 262 lines, and 15720 Hz Hsync frecuency. I mean, ALL 60 Hz modes at that Hsync frecuency HAVE 262 lines. This is axiomatic: Hsync freq. = lines * refresh.
When you refer to 224 or 240 lines, you're referring to the active lines. Total mode lines = active lines + blanking lines. So you're missing the blanking lines, 38 for 224 line modes and 22 for 240 ones.

I heartily recommend you this tutorial:

Modeline howto / tutorial / help -- Cathode Ray Tubes (CRTs)


Cheers

I

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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #47 on: November 19, 2005, 03:46:48 pm »
VooD, you are using a fixed resolution monitor. Different modes' scanning frecuencies can (and will) be different due to a number of reasons. But you don't need to scan at 15735.9348592873945872 EXACT frecuency, that's silly and any device with such a requirement would be useless.

Any CGA monitor or SCART driven TV will accept at least 15.5 - 16 KHz Hfreq, and some sets may do 16.5 KHz or more.

Refresh rate is the most important fact. Resolution isn't. A 224 line game can look perfect using a 240 line mode. Remember, as long as you don't stretch the picture or apply any filtering to it you are fine.
Sure, you may be thinking you'll see black borders displaying 224 line games in 240 line modes. Of course you will, if you have adjusted your screen to see all those 240 active lines. But expand your picture to hide roughly 16 lines, half up and half down, and the result will be EXACTLY the same. Use a game with a screen geometry pattern on the operator's menu for adjustment.
After all, a blanking line doesn't belongs to the picture and therefore in a correctly setup monitor it will be rasterized close or out of the screen, if at all. Remember MAME will center that 224 lines image over 240, leaving exactly 8 black lines in the upper part & 8 down.
On the other hand, if you define a true 224 active lines mode with 38 blanking lines, and your monitor had been previously adjusted to display 240 active lines, you will see black borders after switching to your "true" 224 line mode, 8 line wide black borders up & down. So you will need to adjust anyway. ::)


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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #48 on: November 19, 2005, 07:24:51 pm »
I can assure you I can setup pixel perfect different vertical resolutions in advmame with no borders at all (neither overscanned lines) or resizing.

In fact you can easily test every desired mode with advcfg after doing the first monitor calibration, and they will appear mostly centered.

Maybe tomorrow If I get bored enough I
« Last Edit: November 19, 2005, 11:12:28 pm by VooD »

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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #49 on: November 21, 2005, 08:45:34 am »

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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #50 on: November 21, 2005, 02:42:50 pm »
Although it auto-detects to an extent, its very unlike Advmame in that it is not geared to generating accurate resolutions as far as I can see (or if it is, its not very good).
I'm working on a better auto-detect algorithm for mame. The idea is to select the lowest resolution where the game fills as much as possible of the screen.

Problem is to ensure that it doesn't mess up usage on normal PC monitors.
Quote
Also a quick quesiton hopefully someone can answer - can windows have more than setting per resolution ie if you needed/wanted 640x240 available at say 50Hz AND at 60Hz, can they coexist? or do you need to make a 641x240 or something with a different resolution?
Only one refreshrate per resolution.
(I think it is a limitation of how custom resolutions are handled in the graphics driver rather than windows).

If you use the same pclock for a slightly higher horizontal resolution or add some lines the result will be the same as if you used the correct resolution (unless mame adds stretch).

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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #51 on: December 04, 2005, 09:36:00 am »
hello,

hope this is not completly offtopic: Yesterday i got my hantarex to work on a Matrox Millenium G200 and the Powerstrip. I use also an jpac which levels my video signal to the needed 1Volt. O.k now i have a good picture, its a little bit flickery but ok for an interlaced signal. When i am starting without the jpac, i got a vertical scrolling picture. I dont understand this. Normaly i have to got a darker Picture due to the lower Video Signal, but non scrolling... Am i wrong? Any suggestions ?

Thanks a lot

Zyx
« Last Edit: December 04, 2005, 09:37:59 am by zyxman »

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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #52 on: January 30, 2006, 07:37:26 pm »
A vertical rolling signal means either you are sending a signal your monitor cannot sync to, or you need to manually adjust the vertical hold on your monitor (usually a small pot on the monitor's board, labelled clearly as "V Hold").

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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #53 on: March 08, 2006, 12:14:17 pm »
I've got some time to look at the powerstrip stuff again....

I've also got a monitor hooked up that takes a large range of horizontal scan frequencies (testing how many now).

wpcmame - did you submit any of your changes for mame and resolution autodetection?

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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #54 on: March 10, 2006, 02:31:55 pm »
wpcmame - did you submit any of your changes for mame and resolution autodetection?
No, I never got around submitting it. The problem is that it is such a complicated subject and I got a feeling that very few (if any) of the mamedevs understand what it is all about. The aspect ratio problem with the artwork has always been there and when I have pointed it out on the mame forum nobody have had a clue what I was talking about.

Just sending a patch to mame will not work. My plan is to try to get Aaron Giles' attention on the matter since he is the one who touched the artwork/display code last. Don't know when I will get the time to do it.

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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #55 on: March 10, 2006, 04:09:26 pm »
Yes I appreciate that - its probably because running it at any stock 4:3 resolution with streching makes things look fine (I think?)... Its only when you use resolutions with differntly shaped pixels (eg by doubling the horizontal pixel count) that it applies....

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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #56 on: March 24, 2006, 07:06:53 am »
392 * 240 @ 62Hz (~15,7kHz) working in Windows XP SP2 with ATI Radeon 8500 64MB and Catalist 5.10 driver...




Code: [Select]
PowerStrip timing parameters:
392x240=392,8,40,48,240,1,3,13,7776,7

Generic timing details for 392x240:
HFP=8 HSW=40 HBP=48 kHz=16 VFP=1 VSW=3 VBP=13 Hz=62

VESA detailed timing details:
PClk=7776,00 H.Active=392 H.Blank=96 H.Offset=-8 HSW=40 V.Active=240 V.Blank=17 V.Offset=1 VSW=3

Linux modeline parameters:
"392x240" 7,776 392 400 440 488 240 241 244 257 -hsync -vsync

MAME 384*224 Game without stretch
« Last Edit: July 25, 2006, 06:41:53 pm by JustMichael »

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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #57 on: March 24, 2006, 09:44:04 pm »
I have obtained to image to 321 * 240 @ 60Hz Non Interlaced (~15,7kHz) with a Radeon 8500 64MB + PowerStrip + Windows XP SP2...


Modeline 321 * 240 @ 60Hz Non Interlaced (~15,7kHz)...



Important: After adding the resolution 321 * 240 and restart the PC, when Windows XP starts again it is necessary to close PowerStrip or the image won
« Last Edit: August 18, 2006, 10:08:00 pm by [MaD] »

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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #58 on: March 25, 2006, 08:25:39 am »
I have obtained to image to 321 * 240 @ 60Hz NOR (~15,7kHz) with a Radeon 8500 64MB + PowerStrip + Windows XP SP2...

Hmm I can't get anywhere near that on my Radeon 9500, xp sp2....

Quote
Important: After adding way 321 * 240 and restart the PC, when starting is due again to close the PowerStrip or it was not image.

This sounds quite important, but does not make sense to me through your translation. You seem to suggest you need to close powerstrip to get it to display, which does not make much sense to me.....

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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #59 on: March 25, 2006, 03:33:41 pm »
Important: After adding the resolution 321 * 240 and restart the PC, when Windows XP starts again it is necessary to close PowerStrip or the image won

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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #60 on: March 25, 2006, 08:51:40 pm »
OK - so: you set a 321x240 resolution (can you give a Generic/Vesa/Linux modeline info of this? From the powerstrip.ini file?)..

Then reboot....

Then quit  Powerstrip.....

Then change to 321x240 using Quickres?

I am surprised Powerstrip fails here...

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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #61 on: March 26, 2006, 12:10:49 am »
OK - so: you set a 321x240 resolution (can you give a Generic/Vesa/Linux modeline info of this? From the powerstrip.ini file?)..

Quote
Quote
[Custom Resolutions]
240x224p (Arcade 60Hz 15,7kHz)=240,8,40,16,224,12,3,23,4779,7
240x240p (Arcade 60Hz 15,7kHz)=240,8,40,16,240,5,3,14,4779,7
240x256p (Arcade 60Hz 15,7kHz)=240,8,40,16,256,2,1,3,4779,7
256x224p (Arcade 60Hz 15,7kHz)=256,8,24,24,224,12,3,23,4905,7
256x240p (Arcade 60Hz 15,7kHz)=256,8,24,24,240,5,3,14,4905,7
256x256p (Arcade 60Hz 15,7kHz)=256,8,24,24,256,2,1,3,4905,7
321x224p (Arcade 60Hz 15,7kHz)=321,8,24,32,224,12,3,23,6052,7
321x240p (Arcade 60Hz 15,7kHz)=321,8,24,32,240,5,3,14,6052,7
321x256p (Arcade 60Hz 15,7kHz)=321,8,24,32,256,2,1,3,6052,7
384x224p (Arcade 60Hz 15,7kHz)=384,8,40,40,224,12,3,23,7420,7
384x240p (Arcade 60Hz 15,7kHz)=384,8,40,40,240,5,3,14,7420,7
384x256p (Arcade 60Hz 15,7kHz)=384,8,40,40,256,2,1,3,7420,7
401x256p (Arcade 60Hz 15,7kHz)=401,32,24,32,256,2,2,2,7687,7
401x300p (Arcade 50Hz 15,6kHz)=401,32,24,32,300,3,1,8,7628,7
640x240p (Arcade 60Hz 15,7kHz)=640,16,48,64,240,5,3,14,12073,7
640x288p (Arcade 50Hz 15,6kHz)=640,16,48,64,288,5,3,16,11981,7

641x480i (Arcade 30Hz 15,7kHz)=641,16,48,64,480,10,5,29,12089,15
768x576i (Arcade 25Hz 15,6kHz)=768,16,80,80,576,8,5,37,14774,15

800x300p (Arcade 50Hz 15,6kHz)=800,24,80,56,300,3,1,8,14976,7
801x600i (Arcade 25Hz 15,6kHz)=801,24,80,56,600,5,3,16,14992,15

* Non Interlaced Modes.
* Interlaced Modes.

Quote
PowerStrip timing parameters:
321x240=321,8,24,32,240,5,3,14,6052,7

Generic timing details for 321x240:
HFP=8 HSW=24 HBP=32 kHz=16 VFP=5 VSW=3 VBP=14 Hz=60

VESA detailed timing details:
PClk=6052,00 H.Active=321 H.Blank=64 H.Offset=-8 HSW=24 V.Active=240 V.Blank=22 V.Offset=5 VSW=3

Linux modeline parameters:
"321x240" 6,052 321 329 353 385 240 245 248 262 -hsync -vsync


Then reboot....

Yes.


Then quit  Powerstrip.....

Yes.


Then change to 321x240 using Quickres?

Yes.


I am surprised Powerstrip fails here...

I also am surprised, but to my she passes that to me.


A greeting.


Post in Spanish on my progresses is this.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2006, 10:10:06 pm by [MaD] »

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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #62 on: March 26, 2006, 08:08:01 am »
Thanks for the info - I notice you have gone all the way down to 256x244 progressive? Very nice.

I only used Powerstrip for testing, but from what you are saying you have to create the resolution in powerstrip but actually quit powerstrip to get it to work. (A bug in Powerstrip? Perhaps in their driver).

I will try again soon and see what I can try.

What Quickres utility are you using? The old Windows 98/ME one in Powertoys does not work on XP.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2006, 08:11:59 am by Silver »

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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #63 on: April 16, 2006, 04:53:46 pm »
Hi there.  I couldn't get powerstrip running on my old emachine with a built in ATI Rage display adapter, but then I discovered the 2.78 "legacy" version on their website.  I downloaded that and got it up and running. 

Unfortunately, none of the following instructions seem to apply to the older version.  I can't find a place to set "custom resolutions", let alone an "arcade" setting, nor is there a powerstrip.ini file (nor a "pstrip.ini" file which the help file refers to).

Perhaps the controls are in there somehwere, but I haven't found them yet.   I'll keep clicking buttons until I find something, but if somebody knows the easy path with the older version, I'm all ears.   
Thanks

3. Step-by-step guide

3.1 Install PowerStrip
Just download the trial version from www.entechtaiwan.com and run. The trial
version is fully functional but got a time limit (365 days) and a nag screen.

3.2 Verify that your graphic card driver works with an arcade monitor.
Obviously you need a VGA monitor to perform these actions.
(If any of the items mentioned below isn't available, your graphcs card/driver doesn't support custom resolutions. Not much to do but get another graphic card)
1. Right-click on the powerstrip icon in the taskbar and select Display Properties/Change
2. Click on advanced settings
3. Click on "Custom Resolutions".
4. Go all the way down in the list of resolutions to the one that is labelled "640x480i (arcade)".
5. Select it and click on "add new resolution".
« Last Edit: April 16, 2006, 04:56:17 pm by quarterback »
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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #64 on: April 25, 2006, 01:21:11 am »
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=52803.0

Check out my results! The games look AWESOME! I have a plain Radeon 9200SE with the latest Catalyst drivers and Win XP SP2.

Thanks for the tutorial!

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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #65 on: April 25, 2006, 11:14:42 am »
I'll echo what Hiub1 just said, and thanks guys for the tutorial on "everything you wanted to know about Monitors/TVs + Powerstrip, but were too afraid to ask".

I've got my Radeon 9250 to accept resolutions of 320x240 and similar so most games run sweet in 60hz progressive scan on my old TV (via RGB scart lead)

The only downside I guess, is being a victim of your own success.. in that now the picture is SO pin sharp, each pixel is defined as a square rather than having that blurry/smudginess that makes the games look so authentic.

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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #66 on: April 25, 2006, 02:05:59 pm »
What do you mean that the games don't look authentic?

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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #67 on: April 25, 2006, 02:22:41 pm »
The only downside I guess, is being a victim of your own success.. in that now the picture is SO pin sharp, each pixel is defined as a square rather than having that blurry/smudginess that makes the games look so authentic.

The "sharpness" factor is down to the monitor used more than anything else. If you are outputting 320x240 progressive at 60Hz  via an RGB scart you are basically generating a completely authentic  game signal image. Using an "old TV" I would imagine is perfect.

If it looks too good then perhaps you are used to 15 year old nearly-knackered arcade monitors!

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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #68 on: April 27, 2006, 05:39:42 am »
Check this out...

http://ryoandr.free.fr/emus-en.html

Looks great on my screen
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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #69 on: May 05, 2006, 05:51:10 pm »
wpcmame - did you submit any of your changes for mame and resolution autodetection?
I sent a mail to Aaron about a month ago describing the problem in detail and included a link to my site with the pictures.

Haven't got a reply. Are there any other alternatives (e.g. PowerMAME)?

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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #70 on: May 05, 2006, 06:20:39 pm »
Yes try submitting to same info to Powermame author MikeQ....

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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #71 on: June 02, 2006, 05:47:54 am »
Aaron seems to have implemented correct aspect ratio handling in the new video system.
(He even fixed the artwork aspect)

Tested some corner cases and they all seem to work fine. Only problem is that the bitmap is assumed to fill the entire monitor (or at least have the same aspect ratio).
Only matters if you use modes that doesn't fill the monitor (e.g. 224 line modes on a monitor adjusted for 240 lines). If necessary this can be fixed by adjusting the screen aspect parameter.


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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #72 on: June 02, 2006, 06:05:13 am »
Ah that is good news.... I've steered clear until the huge rewrite settles down, though this has been quite an interesting one....

Incidentally, not sure I posted this elsewhere, I had email exchange with the admin at the Powerstrip forums and discovered that there is (was) a hard-coded 10Mhz pixelclock floor. Any custom resolution generated which had a lower pclock would not be enforced as described (and in my case caused Powerstrip to act very slow, like it was hanging). I had assumed this because the pclock was too low for my gfx card (radeon 9500).

However, he changed the floor to 5Mhz in a beta, and I found I could create more 'perfect' non-interlaced resolutions without any problems. Such as 321x240 (320x240 is always "doublescanned" - I've never found a way round this).

 He then changed it (on request) to something lower than 5Meg - around 4.5 or 4.75Mhz I think - so I could test 240x224.  However this particular setting (240x224=240,8,40,16,224,4,3,31,4779,7) was beyond my gfx card.

The low pclock floor should be in all betas of powerstrip since Mid april.

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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #73 on: June 12, 2006, 09:07:17 am »
Ah that is good news.... I've steered clear until the huge rewrite settles down, though this has been quite an interesting one....

I was a bit to fast. The new system does aspect ratio correctly but the cleanstretch option is removed. This means that the image will always be stretch to fill the entire width and/or height. Makes 224 line games look really bad.

Lets hope Aaron adds the cleanstretch option again.

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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #74 on: June 12, 2006, 09:55:13 am »
surely that breaks the aspect ratio? If a game is native 320x240 and displayed at 640x480 on a 640x480 screen, thats fine. But if a game is 320x224, then it should be displayed at 640x448 on a 640x480 screen. (With borders).

Or am I missing the point again? Does the Maintain_aspect switch still exist?

Or is this a problem that a 224 line game actually ouputted a 240line screen and the monitor was simply stretched/overscanned to provide a good picture in the original arcade?

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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #75 on: June 12, 2006, 04:57:29 pm »
surely that breaks the aspect ratio? If a game is native 320x240 and displayed at 640x480 on a 640x480 screen, thats fine.
It keeps the aspect ratio by only filling the screen in one direction (unless the screen has the correct proportions of course).
Quote
But if a game is 320x224, then it should be displayed at 640x448 on a 640x480 screen. (With borders).
No. A 640x448 image on a 640x480 screen would not have 4:3 aspect ratio. Since you have ~7% (32/480) black lines you need to shrink the game by the same amount horizontally to get correct proportions (i.e. 600x448). As you can see there are 2 ways to display the image with correct proportions: either use 640x480 (non-integer stretch vertically) or 600x448 (non-integer stretch horizontally).

In the old version you could use the cleanstretch option to force integer stretching.

-cleanstretch both (640x448, nice but wrong aspect)
-cleanstretch horiz (640x480)
-cleanstretch vert (600x448)

The new version will just use the largest resolution that keeps the aspect ratio (640x480) and there is no way to change it.

You can solve the problem by creating "perfect" resolutions for every game resolution but it is not practical and if you have an AVGA you just can't display 224 line games properly (since there are no 224 line modes).
Quote
Or am I missing the point again? Does the Maintain_aspect switch still exist?
It is called keep_aspect and ut still exists.


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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #76 on: June 18, 2006, 10:06:15 am »
Ah, thanks once again for clearing that up....

So while the new video system does correct aspect ratio, the catch is it will do non-integer streching (causing strech image problems?) unless you happen to have a perfect video mode.

Ideally we want to be able to use the closest available video mode, and only stretch with integers, creating a near-perfect image with borders?

Maybe we could ask Aaron to look at this while he is still tweaking the video renderer...?

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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #77 on: July 23, 2006, 08:34:21 am »
hi guys, im having a little trouble here, im using powerstrip to display windows on an 15khz arcade monitor with the gameex frontend, everything runs great axcept for 1 thing, the mame chd games, the normal mame roms work fine but with the chd games the screen is flickering alot, i think it has something to do with the customresolutions, as far as i know the chd games run in 800x600 mode but the custom resolutions i added(wich i found on this lovely sitre btw  ) dont have a 800x600 layout on 15khz on them. could anybody plz write down that resolution inhere plz cause i dont know anything about them, to many numbers for me, i can only copy and paste
thx in advance
 

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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #78 on: July 29, 2006, 04:16:25 am »
I think your problem is that the game is scaled to an interlaced resolution with an uneven factor. Try the mame option "-cleanstretch full" and maybe -noswitchres and see if the flicker remains.

There is no use of a 800x600 resolution on an arcade monitor. The monitor will display the same amount of lines (normally in the range 480-576) regardless of resolution uesd so you will not be able to see 600 lines.

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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #79 on: October 26, 2006, 01:28:42 pm »
OK.  I have an ArcadeVGA card.  It sets up my video modes automatically.  I am using Powerstrip only to adjust the image...h center, etc.   My hardware maxes out and is still not properly centered.  In 640x480i mode this works perfectly. 

Even if I switch to a low res (for example, 240x240) mode and go in to powerstrip I can adjust the screen's position no problem...but as I exit it changes modes....and it screws up the screen...and I have to use my HOTKEY I programmed for 640x480 to get back to normal.

I have inputed the modes above...and through powerstrip I can even change to one of those modes...but again,  as soon as I exit,  it jacks up the screen.

Any suggestions?

I have one or two low res modes Id' like to center horizontally...
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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #80 on: October 28, 2006, 08:31:11 am »
Technically, I don't think Powerstrip supports the ArcadeVGA. Although the hardware is similar to a radeon, it is not the same - so powerstrip identifies incorrectly as a radeon.

Obviously, some settings appear to work but don't stick. You could post on the powerstrip website, but I have seen others do so and the reply is usually "It's not supported".

Email Andy at Ultimarc and see if he has any suggestions.

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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #81 on: October 31, 2006, 09:57:58 am »
Occasionally when I start my computer and powerstrip starts it comes up with a warning message saying something along the lines of "Powerstrip did not start or close properly, would you like to adjust your settings?".  When this warning pops up it requires you to choose no for powerstrip to start. 

I was wondering if this warning message can be disabled because it can be quite a nuisance.  I am using powerstrip to output 640x480i and the display doesn't become interlaced until powerstrip loads.  If this warning pops up, powerstrip doesn't load, and there is no image on my screen.  I then have to get out a keyboard and a computer monitor and hook it up to my arcade machine in order to bypass this warning message.

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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #82 on: October 31, 2006, 10:01:10 am »
I believe that message only appears when you power down suddenly without going through the shutdown process.   At least that is when I notice the message on my HTPC.   If you shut down normally,  there shouldn't be an issue.
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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #83 on: October 31, 2006, 10:39:37 am »
I know, but there are times when the game has to be shut off hard due to it freezing up or something of that nature and I want to disable the message for the reasons I stated earlier.

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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #84 on: October 31, 2006, 10:43:17 am »
I found the solution.  In the pstrip.ini put "NoSafetyChecks=1".

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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #85 on: October 31, 2006, 12:48:58 pm »
Nice...that will help with my HTPC.   My cabinet runs fine with the AVGA I use...but I still use Pstrip to center my picture at 640x480...and if Powerstrip flakes out,  it's not a big deal...the picture is about 1/2" to the right.

The HTPC just goes black.
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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #86 on: November 11, 2006, 12:11:59 pm »
i thought i should mention power strip works fine for 640x480i arcade setting..

but the resolutions mentioned in this thread SUCK!!

why because none of them work!!

i copied and pasted the settings and it makes my monitor go on the blink..

i am using a jpac and a tnt vanta and it works great without the freakish resolutions mentioned in this thread...

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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #87 on: November 13, 2006, 02:26:38 pm »
Well most likely either:

1) Your monitor is quite fussy about the exact frequency it needs, and some of the resolutions are out of this range (unlikely)

2) the Tnt Vanta does not support custom resolutions and hence powerstrip can not create the resolutions correctly (quite likely I think - check the supported cards list on the powerstrip website

3) You are using a jpac which could be messing with the resolution/syncs. I do not know the range of frequencies the jpac will alter and/or pass.

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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #88 on: December 12, 2006, 12:57:56 am »
Okay....so then if I get a Betson or WG D9400 (or maybe a Billabs that is pentamode - xga), and I use my stock card:

1) what will it be noticably missing?

2) am I going to hurt it without using an avga, or/and advmame?

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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #89 on: August 07, 2007, 09:05:52 pm »
Just a bump as I am tired of seeing TRANQ's name on the post list...
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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #90 on: February 03, 2008, 05:29:40 am »
Sorry to chime in so late here...

I'm not sure I understand how to configure res' in pstrip.ini...

As it stands, Windows on my TV works under 640*480 32bit at 30hz Interlaced.  At this point I'm not interested in getting arcade perfect resolutions.  I just want 640*480 32bit at 30hz Interlaced to work "all around" first.

The first app I'm having trouble with is "Doom Legacy", which runs in OpenGL, if that means anything.

I would like to create a profile for the res and refresh rate above to attribute to a profile for Legacy, but I don't understand everything in the lines provided earlier. For example:
Quote
512x240=512,16,48,40,240,4,3,15,9702,7

I can see where the res numbers are, but I am lost as to what every other number means...


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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #91 on: February 03, 2008, 06:08:20 am »
From Powerstrip FAQ (this may be a bit old):

This is what it says in the powerstrip FAQ

*Timing string parameter definition:
 1 = horizontal active pixels
 2 = horizontal front porch
 3 = horizontal sync width
 4 = horizontal back porch
 5 = vertical active pixels
 6 = vertical front porch
 7 = vertical sync width
 8 = vertical back porch
 9 = pixel clock in hertz
10 = timing flags, where bit:
     1 = negative horizontal porlarity
     2 = negative vertical polarity
     3 = interlaced
     5 = composite sync
     7 = sync-on-green
     all other bits reserved

(Note that flag bit 0 is reserved and that pixel clock is expressed in Khz not hertz)

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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #92 on: February 03, 2008, 12:34:02 pm »
640, x, x, x, 480, x, x, x, 30(?), 3


Is that about right so far?   I have absolutely no clue what the porches and sync widths are so I'm trying to understand that still ...  If I enter wrong parameters can I destroy my TV?

Also, Windows tells me that it's currently in a 30Hz refresh rate (Horiontal??) , but the BYOAC book states that a Horizontal refresh rate of a High monitor is 31.5 kHz... also stating that a standard TV Vert Refresh rate is 60hz.....

It says 30hz... and I'm using component video... shouldnt that denote that my Vert refresh should at least be at a standard  (and not 30hz)?

What does the 9th number there refer to? Vertical or Horizontal?


Off to Google!


Edit: And now after going to Geometry Wars ,which split my screen into two halves, I exit and find my windows desktop keeps the split, and now the Display properties doesnt list the 30hz interlaced option anymore, and I cant seem to do any amount of fidgeting (ie: Switching monitors back and forth in the display properties, going into advanced and looking for the mode) to get it listed again so I can get the TV back to its usable state...

Is using Component Video more hassle than it's worth?   :badmood:        Pardon my frustration.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2008, 04:15:24 pm by Organic Jerk »

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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #93 on: February 03, 2008, 05:43:50 pm »
Can't help on all your problems - 30Hz will be vertical, not horizontal (its number of times the screen is refreshed per second, basically).

If I recall, powerstrip has an inbuilt mode for 640x480interlaced that you can select - does that not work?

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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #94 on: February 03, 2008, 08:52:03 pm »
Do a search on component video here. You might notice it says to use 640x432x60.
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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #95 on: February 07, 2008, 02:45:28 pm »
2) the Tnt Vanta does not support custom resolutions and hence powerstrip can not create the resolutions correctly (quite likely I think - check the supported cards list on the powerstrip website
it actually does with a very old driver (66.93 i think), older drivers don't support custom modes too well, and newer driver don't support TNT based cards.

640, x, x, x, 480, x, x, x, 30(?), 3
pixel clock of 30kHz.
though that seems quite low for 640x480 and will end up with 6Hz or something
should be more like 30000
« Last Edit: February 07, 2008, 02:47:34 pm by SailorSat »
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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #96 on: February 09, 2008, 05:44:31 pm »
Digressing on Nvidia forceware - I've tried to create a custom resolution in the forceware, and it didn't stick. Are timings required to enable one?
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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #97 on: March 11, 2008, 04:52:56 pm »
Do you guys think it would be a valuable addition tot he FAQ to have a writeup on how to setup and configure powerstrip or is this considering a niche process?  If we think it would be a good idea--is anyone willing to take this on?  I have never worked with it so I wouldn't do it justice I'm sure.

thoughts?

I think it would be a great idea to have one

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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #98 on: March 12, 2008, 12:03:59 pm »
?? Well, add one.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2008, 05:34:46 pm by Ummon »
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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #99 on: March 12, 2008, 10:27:03 pm »
Do you guys think it would be a valuable addition tot he FAQ to have a writeup on how to setup and configure powerstrip or is this considering a niche process?  If we think it would be a good idea--is anyone willing to take this on?  I have never worked with it so I wouldn't do it justice I'm sure.

thoughts?

I think it would be a great idea to have one

I added a lot of the info written by wpcmame at the beginning of this thread to the BYOAC wiki a couple of years ago. It includes step-by-step instructions, as well as a downloaded ini file with a bunch of custom resolutions.

http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/wiki/Custom_display_modes_%28Windows%29_-_Powerstrip


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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #100 on: August 07, 2008, 04:34:50 pm »
I downloaded the latest powerstrip b/c they say that it works with Vista x64 yesterday and have read the wiki on using wpc's pstrip.ini but I can't find my way around powerstrip to load the ini.  Is the latest version that different than the instructions or can someone translate the process a little better.  can I drop the file somewhere or something?

I really want to use soft15khz but it doesn't appear to be working in my Vista x64 with ATI x700.   :dunno


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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #101 on: December 17, 2008, 08:56:12 am »
I downloaded the latest powerstrip b/c they say that it works with Vista x64 yesterday and have read the wiki on using wpc's pstrip.ini but I can't find my way around powerstrip to load the ini.  Is the latest version that different than the instructions or can someone translate the process a little better.  can I drop the file somewhere or something?

I really want to use soft15khz but it doesn't appear to be working in my Vista x64 with ATI x700.   :dunno

I too am trying to use the vista64 version of powerstrip.  There doesn't seem to be a pstrip.ini in the powerstrip folder.  Does that mean that the wiki info does not apply to vista64 users?
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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #102 on: June 23, 2009, 01:12:39 pm »
Is there a way to remove "standard" modes that aren't supported by your monitor with powerstrip?  I remove them, but they never seem to go away.

Thanks!
Gary

PS: This thread has been hugely useful!
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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #103 on: June 24, 2009, 12:16:20 pm »
Is there a way to remove "standard" modes that aren't supported by your monitor with powerstrip?  I remove them, but they never seem to go away.

Thanks!
Gary

PS: This thread has been hugely useful!

Nevermind.  Got it sorted out.  I ended up modifying my local copy of Mame to not try to set resolutions over a certain size.
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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #104 on: June 28, 2009, 08:13:08 pm »
I downloaded the latest powerstrip b/c they say that it works with Vista x64 yesterday and have read the wiki on using wpc's pstrip.ini but I can't find my way around powerstrip to load the ini.  Is the latest version that different than the instructions or can someone translate the process a little better.  can I drop the file somewhere or something?

I really want to use soft15khz but it doesn't appear to be working in my Vista x64 with ATI x700.   :dunno

I too am trying to use the vista64 version of powerstrip.  There doesn't seem to be a pstrip.ini in the powerstrip folder.  Does that mean that the wiki info does not apply to vista64 users?



Im having the same issues im using windows 7 Ati hd4850 Tried powerstip tried Soft15 no succecss. I also cannot find the ini.

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Re: Powerstrip writeup
« Reply #105 on: June 28, 2009, 09:19:10 pm »
I'm reinstalling xp, and gonna give it a fresh try.

  
 

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