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I've seen some random and cruel stuff, but...
Bones:
--- Quote from: Grasshopper on September 08, 2005, 08:05:02 pm ---Are you talking about the person who is insane because drugs have disturbed his brain chemistry, or the person who is insane because his brain chemistry is disturbed for some other reason?
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In this example I was referring to the poor bugger who was abducted and had crazy juice squirted into his body, this was not his choice and if such a thing happened this person deserves the utmost compassion from the legal system.
Everything we do or feel, love, hate, anger, aggression, respire, these are all the result of chemical reactions. We are chemical beings. Why a person stabs a baby may well (and will most likely), be reasoned by a chemical inbalance. To say it is not their fault does not excuse these acts or make our communities a better place. I am sure Hitler had a chemical inbalance but it does not excuse his actions.
I love blonde woman which large norks, that's just the way I am. I am sure a neurologist given enough data could reason as to why I feel this way. Understanding that I adore blonde woman with large funbags does nothing to curve my fascination of blonde woman with unnaturally large breasts and understanding why a person stabs a baby doesn't stop or excuse such craziness.
--- Quote from: shmokes on September 08, 2005, 08:09:40 pm ---
--- Quote from: BrokenBones on September 08, 2005, 07:56:35 pm ---Under such a situation I have confidence that the justice system would reflect upon the facts and not execute a person under these circumstances.
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Just out of curiosity, your confidence in our justice system doesn't stem from the stories I told in my last post does it? Cos that don't make no sense.
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To me these are just stories (but I am sure they are true). I have no doubt that innocent people are jailed and executed through errors of justice and of course it is extremely sad that this happens.
My only hope is that in the big scheme of things, and with the amount of traffic the legal system must deal with, that these are cases of extreme minority. In short I must put my faith in something and it has to be our legal system for there is no alternative. I am not saying this is ideal because it is not and you have pointed out very well some of the obvious problems, but you have to use the tools you have.
shmokes:
--- Quote from: BrokenBones on September 08, 2005, 09:28:42 pm ---
My only hope is that...these are cases of extreme minority.
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Well, in a way, they are. For example a black person who kills a white person is more than three times more likely to be sentenced to death in America compared to a white person who kills a black person. That ain't no isolated incident. And I don't mean that there are three times as many black people put to death for killing white people as vice versa. I'm talking about the odds of being sentenced to death based on race, once the deed is already done. We just can't be trusted to deal out that kind of punishment, IMO. It serves no purpose and there's no way to try to make amends. As much as it would suck to be imprisoned for 20 years when you were innocent of the crime for which you were convicted, at least you can get back a portion of your life and the state can give you an "I'm sorry" lump sum of cash. Giving someone back their life when you realize you messed up is a little trickier.
p.s. Lose norks. That one's just trying too hard and doesn't work at all.
shmokes:
Actually I just looked it up. Since 1974 114 men and women on death row have been exonerated and released (though only 14 due to DNA testing). Keep in mind that those are just the ones who managed, from behind bars, after conviction by a unanimous jury (even states that don't require a unanimous verdict to convict, require it for the death penalty), to prove their innocence. If there were 114 people exhonorated, how many do you think were actually wrongfully convicted? Do you think 1 in 3 people managed to prove their innocence post-conviction? 1 in 10?
100 people in 30 years! That's more than 3 people per year that are sentenced to death and later exonerated. That's just the ones that manage to get off before the needle goes in. The total number of innocent people that get sentenced to death including the ones that are actually wrongfully put to death is, of course, higher than that. Probably much higher. How the hell many would it take for you to question whether this was maybe not such a good idea?
We're ---auto-censored---ing crazy over here. In 1998 only China and the Congo executed more people than the U.S. In the whole world! And considering the number of people in China that one might not mean as much as one might think. Since 1990 there are only seven countries in the entire world that allow the execution of Juveniles:
Iran
Democratic Republic of Congo
Nigeria
Pakistan
Saudi Arabia
Yemen
United States
I know that you're on the other side of the planet, so maybe this stuff doesn't concern you so much, but this is the society that I live in and the only context I can speak intelligently from. The death penalty does nothing to curb our outrageous crime and murder rate.
Anyway....whatever, I guess.
Bones:
All good data mate and I honestly don't know what the answer is. I am a simple Aussie who hears about a baby being stabbed and I just feel the person who did this deserves to die. I see no other option.
I will however be the first to acknowledge that because we don't have the death penalty here or the debate that accompanies wrongful executions, my thoughts are very much in their infancy.
One thing is for certain, being a father I know if anybody did this to my child I would tear them apart without mercy or fear of repercussion. It would be a reaction as natural as blinking.
shmokes:
--- Quote from: BrokenBones on September 09, 2005, 12:07:40 am ---All good data mate and I honestly don't know what the answer is. I am a simple Aussie who hears about a baby being stabbed and I just feel the person who did this deserves to die. I see no other option.
I will however be the first to acknowledge that because we don't have the death penalty here or the debate that accompanies wrongful executions, my thoughts are very much in their infancy.
One thing is for certain, being a father I know if anybody did this to my child I would tear them apart without mercy or fear of repercussion. It would be a reaction as natural as blinking.
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I agree 100% and I'm not even a father yet. I also agree that he deserves to die. I believe that he deserves to have his finglernails and toenails ripped off with pliers and stabbed into his eyes.
But what he deserves, and the prudence of giving your government the power to take its citizens lives are two different things. Heroin dealers deserve to get caught. Allowing your police to eavesdrop on phone calls or go through your mail or enter your house and search it any time they want without a warrant would certainly make it much easier for police to catch heroin dealers.
And actually, that's not even the best example because at least that would probably reduce the number of heroin dealers on the street. The death penalty has no such societal benefits. The only thing it does it make people watching the 10:00 news feel vindicated. It doesn't make the parents who lost the child feel that loss any less vividly.