Katrina Thread / New Orleans

[Dartful Dodger]

Partisan doesn't imply minority so there is no contradiction:

No but complaining about the winner of an election because the ma

[ChadTower]

But the majority is stupid!  Only the 1337 minority knows what is best for the unwashed.

[shmokes]

I can't tell if Dartful is serious in his last post, which seriously implies brain damage, or if he's just trying to ruffle feathers.

And Chad, the problem with your theory is that if anyone who is 1337 comes in here, the mere act of imparting wisdom will sacrifice that person's status as 1337.

[ChadTower]

And Chad, the problem with your theory is that if anyone who is 1337 comes in here, the mere act of imparting wisdom will sacrifice that person's status as 1337.

Only if people listen to them.

[JCL]

Partisan doesn't imply minority so there is no contradiction:

No but complaining about the winner of an election because the ma

[Dartful Dodger]

shmokes, didn't you get the memo?

"Don't bring up Gore, the loser, in a thread that's complaining about the administration"

We (the ma

[Dartful Dodger]

Majority of what? If you think that an election by 5-4 (or even 7-2)  out of a population of 300 Million is anything about democracy, you are crazy.

Yes

The 5-4 vote (but not the 7-2 one!) WAS split on partisan ground. Duh. That is a statement of fact, not a moral argument.

Fact: 5>4

[JCL]

But the majority is stupid!

[JCL]

Back to Katrina. Can anyone defend FEMA now?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9266986/

[JCL]

Majority of what? If you think that an election by 5-4 (or even 7-2)

[ChadTower]

We're not done talking about the SCROTUS.

[shmokes]

Even the 7-2 is pretty shaky from a practical standpoint.  They voted that selectively recounting only some balots violated the equal protection clause because there wasn't a statewide uniform standard for counting balots that ensured that all balots were counted equally.

But, of course, there wasn't a standard to begin with.  By that rationale the automatic machine recount that was triggered merely by the election being so close would have been unconstitutional because poor counties used punchcard ballots with a high rate of error, while rich counties used the optical balots that just read the pen mark and are much more accurate.  The 7-2 ruling effectively invalidated the election results in every state in the country as unconstitutional.

[shmokes]

Quarterback is the only BYOAC member that I am aware of that is currently 1337.

[JCL]

Even the 7-2 is pretty shaky from a practical standpoint.

[shmokes]

No, I think that had the court refused to hear it, or had the court sent it back to the FSC, which had already drafted a new mandate requiring a statewide recount, there would have been no new precedent.

In the future people wouldn't be arguing, "Because of Bush v. Gore, federal courts must now leave state laws up to state courts for interpretation where there is no federal question."

They wouldn't need the "have your cake and eat it too" clause because they would have been following, not setting precedent.

[ChadTower]

Precedents are not necessary to elect Presidents.

[shmokes]

Wow!   Tight.

[ChadTower]

It's like a dyslexic palindrome.

[markrvp]

Back to Katrina. Can anyone defend FEMA now?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9266986/

If Bush found Brown to be ineffective, then I think replacing him is a good move.  I would prefer to see an effective head of FEMA who is already almost 2 weeks into this disaster than the Democratic alternative which was to stop all funding to FEMA and give the money to Ted Kennedy to disperse as he sees fit.

I also still feel strongly that the local authorities in NOLA are the biggest part of the problem and should not be overlooked in an attempt to smear Bush.

[JCL]

Back to Katrina. Can anyone defend FEMA now?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9266986/

If Bush found Brown to be ineffective, then I think replacing him is a good move.

[shmokes]

The problem isn't Brown.  It's the person who put Brown there to begin with.  President Bush has a habit of filling important positions that have historically been non-partisan, with political allies instead of people who have any experience or expertise that would allow them to effectively do that job.  Think John Bolton, John Ashcroft or replacing scientists on the National Science Board with politicians.

Before joining FEMA in 2001, Brown, a protege of longtime Bush aide Joseph Allbaugh, was commissioner of the International Arabian Horse Association and had virtually no experience in disaster management.

An official biography of Brown's top aide, acting deputy director Patrick Rhode, doesn't list disaster relief experience.

The department's No. 3 official, acting deputy chief of staff Brooks Altshuler, also does not have emergency management experience, according to FEMA spokeswoman Natalie Rule.

How can you possibly say that FEMA should be held responsible and not President Bush?  ARE YOU PEOPLE MAD?  Can it possibly surprise you that the Federal Emergency Management Agency would be somewhat ineffective when the President has filled its leadership with people with absolutely no emergency management experience?  EXPERIENCE!!!  They didn't even have theoretical expertise from training.  They simply had no qualifications at all.  In fact, the article doesn't mention this, but I think Brown was actually fired from that Arabian Horse job.

I mean, Jesus...how inept does one have to be when filling the post for the undersecretary of homeland security for emergency preparedness and response, to tap a guy with ZERO experience, ZERO expertise, who currently runs a horse enthusiast group.  He may as well have hired Saint, for his extensive knowledge of arcade cabinets.  Think about it for god's sake.  This appointment came from the guy who was the President of the U.S. when 9/11 happened, and he still has so little concern for it that he taps a political buddy for the job.  His incompetence is staggering.  This isn't merely a liberal vs. conservative hatred-fest.  It's not like there are no intelligent, highly qualified republicans in the country with emergency response experience.  It's not like Democrats have a monopoly on Disaster preparedness (and if they did, a competent president would have sucked it up an hired one -- it's not like they make fiscal or social policy).  He could have easily found qualified, conservative republicans to fill those roles.  And yet, POST 9/11, he uses them as political thank-you cards.

[fredster]

There's a lot of that going around.

Incompetence in government is the rule rather than the exception.  The broad policies are clear, but what gets screwed up is all of the details.

The devil was certainly in the details here.

[ChadTower]

The details and in the gigantic amounts of corruption by the people actually performing the evacuation.

[Dartful Dodger]

In the future people wouldn't be arguing, "Because of Bush v. Gore, ...

It's because of Bush > Gore.

[ChadTower]

That's not saying much. 

A toddler > Gore

That is why Gore couldn't win.

[fredster]

Can you imagine how much corruption there's going to be?

OMG we are talking Billions here.

Think about it.

[shmokes]

In the future people wouldn't be arguing, "Because of Bush v. Gore, ...

It's because of Bush > Gore.

Tourettes

[markrvp]

Back to Katrina. Can anyone defend FEMA now?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9266986/

If Bush found Brown to be ineffective, then I think replacing him is a good move.

[ChadTower]

I'm not even talking about money.

[shmokes]

An Arabian horse expert.  That's who's leading the emergency response team in NO.

I wouldn't call an Arabian horse expert if my water heater broke and flooded my basement.  A terrorist attack?  Earthquake?  Nuclear power plant melt-down?  A child overdosing on methamphetimines?  A broken arm?  A broken beer-tap at a keg party?

I can't think of a single emergency that I would call an Arabian horse expert to sort out.  Can anyone here help me out on this?

[Stingray]

I can imagine a scenario where the islamic extremists switch from car bombs to horse bombs, but beyond that...

-S

[shmokes]

I don't know...maybe I should cut him some slack.  Maybe he figured that FEMA would probably never need to be used anyway.  I mean, how many people have any experience with a huge national disaster that causes mass casualties?

edit: lest you miss my sarcasm, I'm pointing out that Bush happens to have experience with just such a national disaster, which is all the more reason that he should be cut no slack for this.

[Stingray]

Rudy Giuliani maybe?

I'm talking completely out of my backside here. I really know nothing about the man beyond the fact that I was impressed with how he handled NYC after 9/11.

-S

[shmokes]

Well...he couldn't be less qualified than the horse guy...

[ChadTower]

The problem with a position like head of FEMA is that no one qualified wants it.  You could only place someone unqualified that is reaching above their abilities.  Anyone experienced and talented enough to be an effective FEMA head has a better job already than head of FEMA.

[fredster]

I think that Shmokes could even run FEMA.  And he likely doesn't have any horse experience.

The problem was that nobody jumped in and took charge.  Taking charge was what was needed.  He doesn't have a little office in the corner, he probably has a staff with an assistant staff with a few temps too. 

If he would have gotten the right team together, he could have managed.  But he didn't. 

Nobody has set up a "command" center yet either. When we see Jeb in FLA, he's in a "command" center and works to coordiate efforts with the various teams from the local/state/fed.  They have lots of practice.  That model looks like it works pretty good.

Nobody in LA took charge.  It looks to me like they were looking for somebody else to take charge.  Including "FEMA".

[ChadTower]

Every comment I saw from the Governor of LA in the first 48 hours was about the lost casinos and their $500,000/day in revenue lost by the state.  Clearly the Governor's priorities were appropriate.

[shmokes]

The problem with a position like head of FEMA is that no one qualified wants it.  You could only place someone unqualified that is reaching above their abilities.  Anyone experienced and talented enough to be an effective FEMA head has a better job already than head of FEMA.

Bull ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---.  Chad....you just make this ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- up.  Is it compulsive?

[shmokes]

Every comment I saw from the Governor of LA in the first 48 hours was about the lost casinos and their $500,000/day in revenue lost by the state.  Clearly the Governor's priorities were appropriate.

Maybe the Governor is an ass.  Or is this some kind of strange dichotomy where we have to decide between the President and the Governor being an ass, but we only get one?

[ChadTower]

You've never been in a hiring position, have you?