Katrina Thread / New Orleans

[missioncontrol]

I can't believe there are people so low to start looting right after the Hurricanne.......

[Stingray]

I can't believe there are people so low to start looting right after the Hurricanne.......

I can't believe that you can't believe that. The world is chock full of scumbags, sadly enough.

-S

[missioncontrol]

yeah I can believe it...I just hate it that there are people like this....

[Stingray]

This just in: New Orleans butcher shop stripped of bacon. Disturbing footage at 11:00.

-S

[missioncontrol]

No....... NOT THE BACON

that's it arm the police with automatic weopons



shoot first and ask questions later.....

[ChadTower]

The dumb part is that martial law just makes things worse.  The scumbags see that as license to do what they want because clearly the cops are busy elsewhere.

[ChadTower]

I'm reading some of the reports now... what I don't get are all the reports of things like apt buildings, on the beach, that collapsed during the storm, killing 30+.  Why the hell were there people in a building right on the beach?  All these people who were killed in their houses that went completely underwater, why were they there?  Did they think they could fight 8 feet of water?  I mean damn, get yourself and your family clear if you have to ride bikes!  They knew the storm was coming...

[Dartful Dodger]

At first glance I thought he said:

"I can't believe the people there are so slow to start looting right after the Hurricane"


I can't believe there are no stories about people who died trying to loot Wal-Mart during the Hurricane.

[mr.Curmudgeon]

All these people who were killed in their houses that went completely underwater, why were they there?  Did they think they could fight 8 feet of water?  I mean damn, get yourself and your family clear if you have to ride bikes!  They knew the storm was coming...

For some people, there just wasn't anywhere to go...a lot of the poor in NO just don't have cars (or enough "bikes" for their family, come on!)

I saw a report somewhere that upwards of 112,000 lower-income people around the city do not own cars. There isn't enough buses in the city to get them out, so they faced a decision...SuperDome or stay home?

I'm sure there are loads of people that had the option of leaving, and chose to stay...but there are plenty that just didn't have the means to do so. Don't write them off so easily.


mrC

[mr.Curmudgeon]

Anyhow, why are all you guys focusing on the asshats anyhow? There is real tragedy here, on a scale we have yet to fully realize.

From the Mayor:

"We have 80 percent of our city underwater. In some parts of the city, the water is as deep as twenty feet.

"We have people still trapped on their roofs.

"We have an incredible amount of water in the city. Both airports are underwater."

"The twin spans in New Orleans East (I-10) are destroyed. They're gone."

"We have three huge boats that have run aground. We have an oil tanker that is also run aground. And leaking oil."

"We have a serious levee break at 17th Canal. It's causing waters to continue to rise in certain sections of the city.

"We have houses that have literally been picked up off of their foundations and moved.

"The yacht club on the lake has burned and is destroyed.

"I must tell people who are driving around that if you drive on the highrise, we're not sure about the structural soundness of the high-rise, because it appears that a barge has hit one of the main structures of the high-rise."

"This is a briefing that I got from FEMA.

"All of Slidell is under water."

"We have gas leaks that have sprout out, and even when they are under water, you will see a flame shooting out of the water. It's not a pretty picture."



mrC

[Stingray]

Wow, I had no idea it was so bad. I remember seeing a show on the Discovery channel or the Science channel or one of those types of channels not long ago about how easy it would be for a hurricane to totally flood NO because a large part of the city is actually below sea level and they rely so heavily on their levy system. Look like that turned out to be correct.  Sounds pretty nasty.

-S

[ChadTower]

For some people, there just wasn't anywhere to go...a lot of the poor in NO just don't have cars (or enough "bikes" for their family, come on!)

They had DAYS of warning.  It doesn't take days to walk out of the city.  We're talking their lives and the lives of their children.  "I don't have a car" or "there isn't a bus today" is not acceptable.  I'd carry my kids on foot out of the city if that was the only option, but I tend to be tremendously conservative when it comes to things like this. 

I will not get past the people who know a disaster is coming and let things like lack of automotive transportation stop them from evacuating.  This doesn't apply only here, it can be said of pretty much all major storms we get in the US.

I'm getting sick of hearing television people refer to this as "our tsunami".  More than 200,000 people died in that tsunami.  That's like both atomic bombs combined. 

[Stingray]

I just read a couple of online stories about the hurricane. I saw two different people compare it to the Indian Ocean Tsunami. I also thought that was just stupid. Not to belittle this particulat tragedy, but the number of deaths isn't even approaching a significant fraction of those who died in the Indian Ocean. It's like comparing a Cessna crashing into a farmhouse to 9/11. It's just a whole other magnitude.

-S

[ChadTower]

I just read a couple of online stories about the hurricane. I saw two different people compare it to the Indian Ocean Tsunami. I also thought that was just stupid. Not to belittle this particulat tragedy, but the number of deaths isn't even approaching a significant fraction of those who died in the Indian Ocean. It's like comparing a Cessna crashing into a farmhouse to 9/11. It's just a whole other magnitude.

That analogy only works if there were 150,000 people killed in those towers.

[missioncontrol]

I agree it is no where near the tsunami they had.

another thing in the tsunami they had no warning.

these people had warning and were told to evacuate......

[missioncontrol]

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WEATHER/08/29/scene.blog/index.html

[Stingray]

these people had warning and were told to evacuate......

Exactly. Days of warning. I agree with Chad, my feet could carry me pretty darn far in that amount of time if I were unfortunate enough to not own a car.

-S

[ChadTower]

Erg.

[Stingray]

Erg.  This whole blog concept is stupid.  We took years to develop a method of well organized presentation of information on the web, and now people all want to go back to random crap all tossed onto one HTML page that you have to sift through to find anything useful.

You weren't looking at cnn.com's photo blog were you? What a mish-mash of almost completely unrelated crap that turned out to be.

-S

[ChadTower]

It's raining pretty hard here right now.

[Dartful Dodger]

I wonder if Jan Egeland will name the "stingy" rich nations of the world that aren't sending the USA enough aide?

It is belittling and stupid to say the people that died in the hurricane are not as significant as the people that died in the tsunami.

I do not live in a hurricane zone, but I do live in a tornado zone. I see tornado warnings all the time.

[ChadTower]

This one was touted for days as a ten year storm.  They had a voluntary evacuation followed hours later by a mandatory evacuation.  They were in fact breaking the law by not evacuating. 

When was the last time one of those tornado warnings was given days in advanced and accompanied by a mandatory urban evacuation order?

[Stingray]

It is belittling and stupid to say the people that died in the hurricane are not as significant as the people that died in the tsunami.

I never said the people are insignificant. I said the numbers are just nothing like the numbers that were killed in the tsunami. I mean come on, a friend of mine died not long ago. Terrible tragedy, but nobody compared that to the tsunami.

-S

[missioncontrol]

Tornados offer no warning....

Hurricanes do and are tracked for days before they even hit...

It was a Cat 4/5 days before it hit New Orleans. any sane person would leave, especially with New Orleans being below sea level.

[Effayy]

For those of you in your offices and want to keep current:

Click for the [KLOU Live News Feed]

- FA

[Dartful Dodger]

I never said the people are insignificant. I said the numbers are just nothing like the numbers that were killed in the tsunami.

Each one of those "numbers" had a name, and a family that's either still looking for that "number" or morning that "number" in a make shift morgue.

[ChadTower]

Each one of those "numbers" had a name, and a family that's either still looking for that "number" or morning that "number" in a make shift morgue.

What he is talking about are the idiots on TV who keep saying tsunami so that the producer will keep them on their live feed for a few seconds longer.  He didn't say anything at all about the victims themselves.

[Stingray]

I never said the people are insignificant. I said the numbers are just nothing like the numbers that were killed in the tsunami.

Each one of those "numbers" had a name, and a family that's either still looking for that "number" or morning that "number" in a make shift morgue.

Don't be an ---uvula---. You know what I mean. I know that each of those people are human beings that deserve respect. We're comparing hundreds of thousands of dead human beings to what seems to be a few hundred at this point. I understand that a few hundred people is a lot, but not when compared to 250,000 plus. Oh wait, those weren't Americans so they don't count, right?

-S

[missioncontrol]

Each one of those "numbers" had a name, and a family that's either still looking for that "number" or morning that "number" in a make shift morgue.

that number/name could have listened to authorities and evacuated then maybe no one would be mourning them........

and how about the wasted time and money being used saving these people from rooftops they shouldn't have been on if they had just evacuated.....

[mr.Curmudgeon]

This one was touted for days as a ten year storm.  They had a voluntary evacuation followed hours later by a mandatory evacuation.  They were in fact breaking the law by not evacuating. 

I'm just saying...it seems insensitive and petty to start dissing people at this point, when you have absolutely no idea what was behind their individual reasons, nor any clue about the scale of the tragedy.

I mean, you suggested that they just "bike their family" out...or walk. To where? Where do they stay, if they can't even afford a shelter? How exactly do you OUT WALK a hurricane has big as your STATE? Did you see the 10-12 hour traffic jams out of the city? Maybe they could not truly comprehend the danger the storm posed, even with the level of warnings being given.

Either way, let's wait and see before we start condeming the dead.

mr.C(ompassion)  - obviously. 

[missioncontrol]

Updates as they come in on Katrina

wwltv

[ChadTower]

I'm just saying...it seems insensitive and petty to start dissing people at this point, when you have absolutely no idea what was behind their individual reasons, nor any clue about the scale of the tragedy.

I didn't "diss" anyone.

[Dartful Dodger]

Tornados offer no warning....

Hurricanes do and are tracked for days before they even hit...

Yesterday I was told that today we would have heavy rains from the Hurricane, today the same people are telling me that it's going to be 80 degrees and clear skies.

[JackTucky]

Many people aren't able to walk to higher ground, but they are able to walk to stores to loot.

Compassion for people unable to help themselves is one thing.  Elderly, sick, etc.

Compassion for people unwilling to help themselves is wasted.

Art

[ChadTower]

So, how exactly does a tornado relate to a storm that was watched by satellite for a whole week? 

If you COULD get warning of that tornado that is likely to destroy your house and kill your family, would you still stay in the house and ignore it so you can watch TV?

The people of New Orleans had such a warning, to the point that they were legally ordered to evacuate.  It wasn't a suggestion.

[whammoed]

Tornados offer no warning....

Hurricanes do and are tracked for days before they even hit...

Yesterday I was told that today we would have heavy rains from the Hurricane, today the same people are telling me that it's going to be 80 degrees and clear skies.

[ChadTower]

New Orleans is unique in that it is below sea level.  The city is surrounded by Levees that hold back 20-50 feet of water on many sides of the city.  It is literally a city built in a drainage pit with the water walled off.  The levees are breaking, and the city is flooding to its natural state of water levelling.

If any city has really needed to heed those evacuation warnings in recent memory, this was it.

[mr.Curmudgeon]

No one has condemned the dead or said anything even specifically about them.  All I say is that I don't understand. 

Well, that's kind of a problem...can you see how you've sort of "opened the door" on the "warranted compassion" debate, before the bodies are even counted?

All I'm suggesting is that you (and others) actually *wait* for the information to come out, so you can better "understand", if you really want to.


mrC

[missioncontrol]

Tornados offer no warning....

Hurricanes do and are tracked for days before they even hit...

Yesterday I was told that today we would have heavy rains from the Hurricane, today the same people are telling me that it's going to be 80 degrees and clear skies.

[Dartful Dodger]

So, how exactly does a tornado relate to a storm that was watched by satellite for a whole week?

The satellites that were watching the storm for over a week also said this storm would hit Chicago today, yesterday they were still saying that we should get heavy rains today.