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| Starting coding on Touchscreen jukebox. *release date?? & Art!!* |
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| SirPoonga:
--- Quote from: Barcrest on August 01, 2005, 08:09:53 am --- --- Quote ---Many do not utilize a database, making searching/sorting very slow --- End quote --- This is also not true. Both my application and the pc jukebox use databases. Searching using my app on my P700 is alsmost instant with 16000+ songs. Searching is even faster in the pc jukebox. --- End quote --- He siad many, does two count as many? I'm not sure about the others but his point was made that he wants to use a database instead of a flat file :) --- Quote --- --- Quote ---Many use basic vb6 list loading procedures (listitems.add), which is very slow for large lists --- End quote --- list.additem is not slow, like i said before my searches are almost instant on an old P700 with 256mb ram. I still don't image in it to be much slower on P500 and once you are getting down that end most things will not work to well. --- End quote --- Actually, using the list control to store and use data is painfully slow. Much faster to store in something like an ArrayList (form .NET) or other redimensional array. Then update however the list is going to be displayed using the array. Especially when sorting is involved. I know what doesn't exist which would be REALLY cool, a jukebox software completely written in SDL so it could be cross platform :) Actually, thinking about the animation statement, that is not true. There is animation in real jukeboxes, it is just done so well you don't realize it. There isn't much for animation when just idling, but when moving around and selecting stuff there's alot of little animations which are used to que you on your actions. A good example is stepmania. Not sure if you have ever used it, but you can think of it as a jukebox program, but when you play a song steps go across the screen :) When you select stuff there's a bunch of animations, just look at the skin files. You don't notice it because they are meant to give feedback on the action you just took so you are expecting something to happen. For example, I remember a spot where you arrow down in a menu and when the next item is selected it slightly expands then contracts. It's the little things like that that make the software appear polished. Kinda like a mouse rollover on a webpage, people may not realize it happened because they expected some type of feedback that their action took place. But I agree with nipsmg's generalizations for the most part. For free jukebox software many use standard windows controls without changing the look of the control. Now with Visual Studio 6.0 it is tougher to do this than with .NET. For example, not to pick on you unclet, but look at the screenshots for unclet's. I love all the features but the look, since it uses alot of standard windows controls without changing the look of the control, looks like an old win 3.1 application that is in fullscreen mode. My goal is to find something that looks like it was designed for an embedded OS. Nipsmg knows this, he's been reading my ToughTunes thread :) I'm in search for an antique radio. The old wooden standup type. I am going to embed a touch screen in it somehow, depending on the style of the radio I find. Hopefully I find one like this one that was at a hotel, it had a turntable draw that pulled out. I'd put the tough screen in that so nothing modern is on the outside. And that's why when I saw TouchTunes I thought it was almost the perfect software. The major thing it lacks is knowing what's next and how many songs are in the queue. I've found pay software that is pretty good. But I am more fond of supporting open source projects if I can find one. The features I'd want in a jukebox. Think TouchTunes... Select Artist, then albumn screen comes up with cover art, select albumn, song list for that albumn (for mp3s that exists in that albumn) is available for selection. Artist is selected by the right side "scroll" control. Wither use up/down arrow, or drag form A, to B, to C like TouchTunes does. Be able to display queue info, either a what's next always on screen someplace and/or a dedicated screen that shows the queue. The double queue idea I post earlier for computer random. This could be an option that can be turned on and off. Does not look anyway like a windows app, menaing does not have standard windows componants displayed so that they look like standard windows componants. Other possible features. Automatically look for new songs upon load up. I'd rather have that happen than use an admin tool to create records. I know this can be done, stepmania does a really good job at it. For free software I either find something that has the features I want but doesn't look "embedded" or it looks "embedded" but doesn't have the features :( So, how would I describe the look I am going after? This is wher eI think DirectX or SDL would be perfect. Think stepmania or dragon king with touchscreen if that could ever happen. Basically the software has to handle "buttons" or where the mouse can click. I assume mouse as I assume touchscreen is a mouse event? Unless you can skin a standard windows componant I would make the thing completely out of DirectX or SDL. Like I mentioned before, progam it like a game. Event driven, program loop goes through the event queue and does appropiate actions. |
| nipsmg:
Sirpoonga hit the nail right on the head. Thanks SP. Barcrest: I was very careful to make sure to state that these were general opinions and obvservations about some of the software available out there today. I took pains not to mention any specific applications. I was not singling anyone out, and I was not at all trying to "rubbish" anyone's work. However, I do feel a need to respond to some of your points. --- Quote --- --- Quote ---Mostly written in VB6 using windows controls. --- End quote --- True a few are written in VB mine included but there is little use of windows controls. As far as i know the pc jukebox doesn't use any now. --- End quote --- I'm sorry, but you are incorrect on this point. The controls are not STANDARD windows controls, they are CUSTOM windows controls, yet still windows controls. They still respond to the same windows events, on a windows form. The rounded graphical buttons you have on your app are actually some of the nicer ones I've seen, they don't LOOK like windows controls like some others do, but to a software developer, it's blatantly obvious that they are all windows controls. This is not necessarily a bad thing for 99.9% of people. I am however in the .1% of people who would like to change this. --- Quote --- --- Quote ---"fullscreen" mode is usually a maximized windows form with no control box/titlebar. --- End quote --- You say this like it's a bad thing, if everything is hidden away from the user then there shouldn't a problem how you go about getting full screen. --- End quote --- Again, to me (my opinion) this could be a bad thing. This is not a true "fullscreen" mode. This is merely a maximized form. Sure you can use a form and make it topmost, but it doesn't accomplish the same thing that a fullscreen application running in DX or GDI+ that actually use a real fullscreen mode and draw directly to it does. For this reason, to a developer, it still "feels" and "acts" like a windows application. I intend to try to get away from this. Again, this is MY preference, I'm not putting down your work. --- Quote --- --- Quote ---Many do not utilize a database, making searching/sorting very slow --- End quote --- This is also not true. Both my application and the pc jukebox use databases. Searching using my app on my P700 is alsmost instant with 16000+ songs. Searching is even faster in the pc jukebox. --- End quote --- SirPoonga already handled this response. --- Quote --- --- Quote ---Many use basic vb6 list loading procedures (listitems.add), which is very slow for large lists --- End quote --- list.additem is not slow, like i said before my searches are almost instant on an old P700 with 256mb ram. I still don't image in it to be much slower on P500 and once you are getting down that end most things will not work to well. --- End quote --- list.additem is very very very slow for large quantaties. There is tons of data to back this up, google it. --- Quote --- --- Quote ---Little to no animation (since animating windows controls is not really fun/pretty)[li]Not "commercial" looking --- End quote --- Well there is very little if any animation in the comercial boxes here in the UK, the pc jukebox does have animation. I have not worked on getting animation in yet as my software is still ALPHA and that is low on the scale but i can assure you animation in visual basic is not as bad as you make out... I know you didn't want the thred to go this way and i really hope you do make a go of your jukebox, i just don't think it's in good taste to rubbish other peoples work most of which you have not even downloaded and tried. The proof is in the pudding so to speak and the software that is out there already for people to download and use can be judged by all hjowever until you release something i like many others will not pass judgment on your work. Without trying something you cannot pass an opinion. --- End quote --- --- Quote --- --- End quote --- Again, SirPoonga pretty well handled this too. I'm talking about SUBTLE animation. I'm talking about transitions between screens. I'm talking about text fading in/out. I'm talking about some of the emphasis that is put on text by duplicating the text layer, and pulsing it with a large alpha value. I'm not talking about spinning cubes and crazy 3d effects, I think some people do know exactly what I'm going for here. Again, I'm going to stress this. My comments were made IN GENERAL about much of the software available. PLEASE DO NOT TAKE ANY OF THIS PERSONALLY. I am not putting down anyone's work. Both the MP3 Jukebox and the PC Jukebox are much more mature than my project, and have come a very long way, and do way more than mine does at the moment. PLEASE go download them and try them. When mine's done, try mine. If you like someone else's better, please feel free to use it. I'm in no way, shape, or form, a "guru" of all things jukebox. I have my preferences. I'm building a jukebox around my preferences, and asking for suggestions. That is all. --NipsMG |
| SirPoonga:
heh, you posted right after I editted. Make sure you read my thread again :) |
| Barry Barcrest:
Fair enough, i just thought you were being a little short sighted with your observations however i do see where you are coming from. If either of you are interested i just posted up a new version of my software that has got transition effects when browsing the album covers. I can add this to transition between all screens should i wish, i really would like it if you guys could give me some feedback on it. To be honest it has got almost everything SirPoonga has asked for apart from the fact it sits on wondows and has got windows controls... I didn't bother hiding them in the options screen because no user will see that, i really just need to tidy up the player buttons and the volume slider. As for the listbox, yes i agree it may not be the fastest but if a P700 can scoot through 16000+ enteries almost instantly that is quick enough for me. I could have set up an array i agree but i was being lazy when i set it up and to be honest it worked well enough. Take it easy guys, look forward to seeing how you get on. EDIT: --- Quote ---Again, to me (my opinion) this could be a bad thing. This is not a true "fullscreen" mode. --- End quote --- |
| Chris:
--- Quote from: nipsmg --- If my assumptions are really "mostly incorrect", please point me in the direction of a jukebox app with the features I'm looking for. I'd seriously really appreciate it. --- End quote --- Okay, here we go. Is anyone suprised that I'm about to point out WinCab? :) --- Quote from: nipsmg on July 29, 2005, 12:28:41 pm ---[li]Mostly written in VB6 using windows controls.[/li] --- End quote --- WinCab is written in C. It doesn't use a single Windows control. --- Quote ---[li]"fullscreen" mode is usually a maximized windows form with no control box/titlebar.[/li] --- End quote --- "fullscreen" mode is DirectX-based in whatever resolution your video card supports. --- Quote ---[li]Many do not utilize a database, making searching/sorting very slow [/li] --- End quote --- Well, you have me here. WinCab simulates a mechanical jukebox, so there are no sorting/search functions. Version 4 will implement filters and sorting, and I will either use my own indexes or move to TinySQL to support those. --- Quote ---[li]Many use basic vb6 list loading procedures (listitems.add), which is very slow for large lists[/li] --- End quote --- Again, no VB here. --- Quote ---[li]Little to no animation (since animating windows controls is not really fun/pretty)[/li] --- End quote --- The version I released a couple of days ago does have a "slide" page change animation. In addition, you can map buttons or images on the screen to react to jukebox events. --- Quote ---[li]Not "commercial" looking --- End quote --- Everything about WinCab is skinnable, down to what elements appear on the screen and where they're located, so it is as professional as one cares to make it look. I'll be the first to admit that I'm no artist, so the default skins may not look too professional. See http://webpages.charter.net/celamantia/jukebox/gallery.html for screenshots of the default skins. --- Quote ---Here's my basic requirements for this software: REAL fullscreen jukebox (Using DirectX or GDI). --- End quote --- Check. --- Quote ---No windows controls (except maybe for a separate configuraiton program, if that's the way I decide to go). --- End quote --- Check. --- Quote ---NO NEED FOR KEYBOARD. --- End quote --- Check. (Keyboard, gamepad, and mouse/touchscreen entry are all supported, although touchscreen support requires XP or DOS.) --- Quote ---Easy to use, clean, clear interface. --- End quote --- The interface is dependent on the skin, but I'll credit myself with a Check here. --- Quote ---Search by artist, title, song, etc. --- End quote --- Bzzt. I lose here. --- Quote ---Display album art. --- End quote --- Check. --- Quote ---Screen saver. --- End quote --- Check. --Chris |
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