Is there any reason to upgrade versions of MAME?

[2PacMan]

i have MAME .96 in my cab and everything is running fine, with the exception of a freeze up every now and then......should i keep upgrading when new versions of MAME come out or just leave things as they are.  I see .97 is out now.

Do the upgrades of MAME effect the running of MAME itself, or do the upgrades pretty much just allow more games to be played that weren't playable before.  I'm not planning on adding anymore games in the future, i have pretty much everything i want.  I heard some games actually run worse on higher upgrades of MAME, so i don't want to ruin anything i already have....but the freezing screen thing every once in a while is kind of bugging me.

[hulkster]

im not a guru on mame by any means, but ive been through enough releases to know that the upgrades in versions of mame are usually to add new games that werent available before, fix errors in older games that were listed but never worked, and als to fix bugs in mame itself when doing certain things within the software.  every now and then they add a new feature to it that makes it work upgrading.  ive heard rumors that eventually mame will be able to skip over all the boot sequences each game goes through.  i dont know how long that will take, but ive heard its in the works. 

anyway, if its freezing up on you, sounds like you have a pc problem or maybe an install problem.  id reload mame and whatever frontend you are using to see if that fixes it. 

[romperwomb]

Unless there are some fun new features like NetPlay or built in support for command.dat are put in (::shiver::  Haze/mamedev may be watching!) I don't see a good reason to goto the trouble of updating...at least not every single version.

You may even consider downgrading versions to see if that resolves your freezing issues. 

Keep in mind, you must also manage your ROM files to match the version you are running using a program like CLRmamepro.

[Tiger-Heli]

ive heard rumors that eventually mame will be able to skip over all the boot sequences each game goes through.  i dont know how long that will take, but ive heard its in the works. 

You can do that now - with a custom compile, see:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,34102.0.html
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,17952.0.html

Also, some versions of NoNameMAME included this in the binary, if you don't like to "roll your own".

anyway, if its freezing up on you, sounds like you have a pc problem or maybe an install problem.  id reload mame and whatever frontend you are using to see if that fixes it. 

2PacMan - did you try the "sticky Keys" fix that I mentioned here: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,38452.msg345309.html#msg345309

[Bursk]

I use MAME32 Plus! and every time a new release comes out, I simply unzip the latest version to my MAME directory and overwrite the existing files.  Very simple to do.  What flavour of MAME are you using, and why isn't upgrading as simple?

[hulkster]

ive heard rumors that eventually mame will be able to skip over all the boot sequences each game goes through.

[Tiger-Heli]

ive heard rumors that eventually mame will be able to skip over all the boot sequences each game goes through.  i dont know how long that will take, but ive heard its in the works. 

You can do that now - with a custom compile, see:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,34102.0.html
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,17952.0.html

Also, some versions of NoNameMAME included this in the binary, if you don't like to "roll your own".

There is NoNameMAME32 - 
anyway, if its freezing up on you, sounds like you have a pc problem or maybe an install problem.  id reload mame and whatever frontend you are using to see if that fixes it. 

2PacMan - did you try the "sticky Keys" fix that I mentioned here: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,38452.msg345309.html#msg345309

yeah but you have to compile and do all that dos crap.  i use mame32 with mamewah running as an FE. 

[2PacMan]

Yes, i did check on the "sticky keys" advice, but they were already off...thanks for the attempt though.  I played it for about an hour and a half yesterday with no freeze up at all.  It just seems really random.  And if i shift+tab between programs, it starts up again where i left off.  It must be something with me computer i guess.  I'm guessing i'll just live with it.

I'm just usuing regular mame with game launcher as a front end.  That's all i have on my comp besides windows.

It's not that upgrading to the newer version of MAME would be hard or anything...but i'm just in the mindset like "why fix what isn't broken" you know?  You always run the risk of screwing something up when you upgrade.  I mean, my machine runs fine, i can play all my games i want to play.  Like i said, i don't want my games to run worse with the newer version like i heard some can.  i was just curious as to how many people upgrade constantly.  Like once your cab is completely finished, sitting in your living room (or wherever), and is getting played for months, do you still upgrade the newer MAME versions??

[Tiger-Heli]

Like i said, i don't want my games to run worse with the newer version like i heard some can.  i was just curious as to how many people upgrade constantly.  Like once your cab is completely finished, sitting in your living room (or wherever), and is getting played for months, do you still upgrade the newer MAME versions??

It's not a matter of running worse, usually, as a matter of running slower.  (And there is a good possibility that most of your ROMS will need to be updated as well.)

[2PacMan]

Exactly!  That's why I really don't want to do it.  I was just wondering if there's a strong advantage to do so.

[AlanS17]

Very few new features are eve added into MAME. If something big happens, it's usually front page news. Otherwise, the major difference between versions is just added games. No reason to go upgrading for that because you wouldn't have the ROMs, anyways. It'll likely do more harm than good.

[2PacMan]

OK, so i'm thinking i'll just keep what i have in there now, which is MAME .96.  I'm pretty much done tinkering with the computer aspect of it, so now i guess i'll just play and enjoy it.

[chemame]

I stopped upgrading when I lost my deep bass booming explosion on Galaga (0.91 I think?). Yes, I know, it wasn't authentic, but it was what I had for like 3 years... when I lost it and got the authentic tinny explosion instead, I decided to stop before other games changed on me unexpectedly.

Chemame

[hulkster]

only thing is, when was golden tee added to mame?  not the crappy version, but the newer versions up to 2k i think?

[Tiger-Heli]

Star Wars Trilogy will be in the next one, without sound -  http://www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=38241&page=0&view=expanded&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1

[chemame]

only thing is, when was golden tee added to mame?  not the crappy version, but the newer versions up to 2k i think?

They are all in whatever I have, and I think I'm on 0.91 or MAYBE 0.92

The last game that was a MUST UPGRADE for me was QB-3

Chemame

[Tiger-Heli]

only thing is, when was golden tee added to mame?  not the crappy version, but the newer versions up to 2k i think?

They are all in whatever I have, and I think I'm on 0.91 or MAYBE 0.92

The last game that was a MUST UPGRADE for me was QB-3

Chemame

Yep, 0.92 according to MAWS.

[Howard_Casto]

pre- .87 I would say there is no need to upgrade frequently, however anymore, each release offers a major improvment in at least one system driver.  This makes approx 20-30 games more acurate/playable upon each release.  It's enough to take notice, especially if you are a fan of the newer games.

[gingerone]

I recently went from .90 to .96 and I was amazed at how many more games were playable.
However most of the games I like are now on there so I can't see any point in upgrading at the moment but that's a personal choice.

[Haze]

ive heard rumors that eventually mame will be able to skip over all the boot sequences each game goes through.  i dont know how long that will take, but ive heard its in the works. 

I don't know where you heard that but its very, very wrong.  The boot sequences are part of the original games, MAME is designed to run the original games as they ran on the original board, that includes the boot sequences.

In some cases (well NeoGeo, I can't think of any others) the boot sequence was skipped because it wasn't possible to determine how to get it to pass correctly, many versions back now we figured out how to emulate the boot sequence and it is now correctly emulated.

Many bug fixes go into each version of MAME, as a project its always evolving, some things get fixed, some things get broken, usually more fixed than broken (although some remain broken for fairly long periods of time as fixing them isn't always easy, especially if the code that made them work in the first place wasn't actually right).  Its your choice if you upgrade or not, keep your eyes on the whatsnew information and WIP pages.

[Tiger-Heli]

ive heard rumors that eventually mame will be able to skip over all the boot sequences each game goes through.  i dont know how long that will take, but ive heard its in the works. 

I don't know where you heard that but its very, very wrong.  The boot sequences are part of the original games, MAME is designed to run the original games as they ran on the original board, that includes the boot sequences.

Haze, I assume you're familiar with the -ssf patch that I posted above.  I know it's unpopular with the devs.

What would it hurt to add it as an option in the .ini file, defaulted to off?

You still get accurate startup frames, users that didn't want it would never see it, and users that did could take advantage of it.

How is this philosophically different from high-score save, or save states, or unlimited lives (cheat engine), or underclocking processors, all of which couldn't be done on a real game.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not whining or being disrespectful of the great strides you have made to MAME, I just don't see why this is so bad and the other cheats are okay.

[Howard_Casto]

Gotta take haze's side on this one.  For a different reason though.  Skipping over the bootup sequence could potentially compromise accuracy or stability.  Some of the newer games do important checks at that point. 

With that being said, why would you want to skip over boot sequences anyway?  The only annoying ones I can think of are the beat mania games (takes like 5 min to boot). 

[Tahnok]

The boot sequences do get annoying after a while. They are cool at first, but once you get playing they become an inconvenience.

As for my MAME setup, I'm running 0.89. The only reason I am even considering upgrading is because of Golden Tee and Simpson's bowling. All of the classics I play are already in MAME.

[daywane]

I only upgrade every few years.
started with 56
got 78
thinking of new one now

can not say upgrade really... I  put the new Mame in a newer PC
still have the other Mame's in there own PC

tried having multi Mame PC but Mame always said this is a newer version and changed stuff on my PC
really ticked me off

[Haze]

ive heard rumors that eventually mame will be able to skip over all the boot sequences each game goes through.  i dont know how long that will take, but ive heard its in the works. 

I don't know where you heard that but its very, very wrong.  The boot sequences are part of the original games, MAME is designed to run the original games as they ran on the original board, that includes the boot sequences.

Haze, I assume you're familiar with the -ssf patch that I posted above.  I know it's unpopular with the devs.

What would it hurt to add it as an option in the .ini file, defaulted to off?

You still get accurate startup frames, users that didn't want it would never see it, and users that did could take advantage of it.

How is this philosophically different from high-score save, or save states, or unlimited lives (cheat engine), or underclocking processors, all of which couldn't be done on a real game.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not whining or being disrespectful of the great strides you have made to MAME, I just don't see why this is so bad and the other cheats are okay.

No, it won't be accepted.

Save States are a debugging feature, as are the cheat engine, and the clock/fps adjustments.  I've suggested we remove Hi-Score support several times.

Skipping startup frames benefits nobody except maybe those trying to put together a multi-game cabinet (and even then the benefit is minimal as drawing the frames in many cases only uses a tiny bit of CPU time so you just get a black screen for a while instead.)

[Franco]

Not a reply for the last posts but almost back on topic..... 

Is it possible to have a few versions of MAME installed on your PC and then just point the versions of MAME to the right directories (ROMS, Samples etc)

Just so that you could use the older version(s) to run MAME at full speed (if there is slowing down problems with the newer versions, I dont know this personally) and then have the most recent version to play the latest ROMs etc?

[daywane]

Not a reply for the last posts but almost back on topic.....

[tommy]

Not a reply for the last posts but almost back on topic.....

[chemame]

I run two different versions always (NoNameMame for lightgun games, and standard MAME for everything else), and while upgrading versions, I run the old version and the new version in parallel until I'm satisfied that the new version works OK.

[daywane]

mame 32?
that is what I used. realy messed with the older version
I had to delete booth versions and reistall mame56

[pointdablame]

I've had 3 or 4 instances of MAME on the same system with no problems.  Just set each version to the correct rom folder, and you'll be good to go.

MAME32 might be a bit different, but I would think if you put them in different folders and simply point the correct MAME32 version to teh correct roms, you'd be just fine.

[Tiger-Heli]

Is it possible to have a few versions of MAME installed on your PC and then just point the versions of MAME to the right directories (ROMS, Samples etc)

I do in all the time with the Windows command-line MAME.

[Tiger-Heli]

Haze, thanks for the reply.  I liked the feature, but it's not a show-stopper for me.

Gotta take haze's side on this one.  For a different reason though.  Skipping over the bootup sequence could potentially compromise accuracy or stability.  Some of the newer games do important checks at that point.

Howard, the patch I spoke of still runs the startup frames, it just doesn't write them to the video card, AFAIK.  I don't see how this could hurt accuracy or stability. 

With that being said, why would you want to skip over boot sequences anyway?  The only annoying ones I can think of are the beat mania games (takes like 5 min to boot). 

I'm pretty mixed on it, some games I like using it, some I don't.  But I know a lot of users really like it.

[elvis]

i have MAME .96 in my cab and everything is running fine, with the exception of a freeze up every now and then......should i keep upgrading when new versions of MAME come out or just leave things as they are.  I see .97 is out now.

Do the upgrades of MAME effect the running of MAME itself, or do the upgrades pretty much just allow more games to be played that weren't playable before.

The best way to answer these sorts of questions is to keep an eye on the whatsnew and readme files included with every release:

http://www.mame.net/whatsnew.html
http://mamedev.com/releases/whatsnew_097.txt
http://mamedev.com/updates/whatsnew_097u3.txt

Also keep an eye on MAMETesters:

http://www.mametesters.org/

MAME is nothing more than some generic input/output framework attached to a bucketload of specific cpu emulation code bound together in "drivers" for various games.  Each new version of MAME attempts to add new drivers, or fix existing ones if there are any differences between them and real-world hardware they try to represent.

If the current version of MAME that you run plays the games you like, and does so to the correct speed and accuracy that you consider "good enough", then there's absolutely no point upgrading.

If however, you happen to spot that one mystical game in a whatsnew.txt that you've been longing to play since your childhood days when you last saw the cabinet "in the flesh", then that's about the time I'd be clambering for an upgrade.

I think my cabinet is still running a build around .89 or .90-ish.  There's no point in upgrading for me, because the dozen or so games I truly enjoy work fine, and the 5000 other titles don't really interest me in the slightest.

Do be aware that as MAME grows, it does get slower.  More and more code is added to make emulation more accurate, and the MAME devs are notorious for putting functionality above and beyond optimisation (and just quietly, I do have to agree with that philsophy).  Upgrading to a new version of MAME 9 times out of 10 will make things slightly slower.  Only on rare occasions do they take the time out to optimise particular code, or take out something that slows the process down incorrectly.  In that case, there will usually be a big fuss made about the game all of a sudden (especially if it's a 3D game, it seems) and you'll definitely read about it in the whatsnew.txt.

But in general, avoid updates if you don't *need* them.

[Tiger-Heli]

Good summary, but a couple of comments:

Do be aware that as MAME grows, it does get slower.  More and more code is added to make emulation more accurate, and the MAME devs are notorious for putting functionality above and beyond optimisation (and just quietly, I do have to agree with that philsophy).  Upgrading to a new version of MAME 9 times out of 10 will make things slightly slower.

There's actually more to this than just code bloat.  As MAME starts emulating newer hardware, the code gets optimized for these games, meaning older simpler games run slower.  (with the understanding that while a Pentium 200 would have previously run Pac-Man just fine, since there's very little reason to use such old hardware now, there little loss if MAME won't run on it).

In that case, there will usually be a big fuss made about the game all of a sudden (especially if it's a 3D game, it seems) and you'll definitely read about it in the whatsnew.txt.

Maybe, but often they will just say "Mega improvement to the V-Unit driver", rather than Cruisin' USA should be a lot faster.

[Howard_Casto]

Actually, there is next to no bloat added. If anything the mame code is getting more effecient as time goes on (hacks are removed and processor cores get more and more generic.)  The last bloat added was the xml-based cfg files.  But that's an initial memory bloat and is purged after the inputs are read.


Btw.... star wars trilogy was fixed as of 97u3.  If that's not a reason to upgrade I don't know what is. 

[Haze]

Actually, there is next to no bloat added. If anything the mame code is getting more effecient as time goes on (hacks are removed and processor cores get more and more generic.)  The last bloat added was the xml-based cfg files.  But that's an initial memory bloat and is purged after the inputs are read.


Btw.... star wars trilogy was fixed as of 97u3.  If that's not a reason to upgrade I don't know what is. 

SWT is interesting from an achievement point of view, but its also probably the slowest thing in Mame, and so for anybody except developers probably not that interesting (and its also near impossible to debug or develop at this point in time).  Also needs an Athlon 64 or Pentium as the Dynarec PPC core isn't compatible with Ahtlon XPs.  Funny that people used to (or in some cases still do) think Dynarec is the answer to all speed problems, likewise 3d acceleration.

Anyway, I'll just confirm as stated here, MAME is not getting more bloated, additional games supported have no effect on the performance of unrelated drivers.  However, the core is (over time)  becoming more flexible which does slow things down.  Pacman for example would only require a GFX engine capable of drawing basic tiles of a single size.  The MAME core is now capable of much more complex things needed to support more advanced hardware rather than being optimized to draw simple tiles only.

In terms of drivers the cleaner and less bloated a driver is made the slower it becomes, older MAMEs had things like palette marking, and dirty rectangles to keep things sane on PCs at the time (200mhz systems now) as those are no longer needed they've been removed as our ultimate goal is always cleaner, easier to use code.  (Optimizations are usually only done to the level needed to make development comfortable at the time)

[elvis]

There's actually more to this than just code bloat.

I don't think I made myself clear eariler.

I'm not trying to say "MAME gets more and more bloated".  It was an attempt to put the growth of MAME into terms a layperson could understand.  As Haze said above, the added features/flexibility over time, slows things down a little.  I don't consider that bloat by any means.

What most people seem to desire from software is that each release of something gets "better".  That in itself is a subjective term.  For some, "better" means faster / more hacked, which as we all know isn't the case for MAME.  MAME strives for accuracy, and "better" means more accurate, and supporting more titles. 

(Although that doesn't stop the regular slew of posters on the mame.net forums trying to convince the MAME Devs for the gazillionth time that MAME "needs" hardware 3D accelleration.  Just quietly, I'm surprised the mame.net forums are still open, and even more suprised the devs put up with that crap on a daily basis).

So with all that in mind, if someone is searching for a costless speedup, upgrading versions of MAME is not the answer.  As per the MAME FAQ, if you want faster, then buy a better CPU.  If you want more titles supported, then feel free to upgrade.

[tommy]

I just recently upgraded my PC and found out a few things i was not aware of, on my old pc i could not run any MK version on a higher version of mame(smoothly), i had to downgrade to say .66 for them to run smooth. Now with a good processor i can run it on any version and i had originaly thought it was the versions fault.

In any event as said above the processor is everything, if you are lacking in processing power it's time to downgrade mame versions and hope.

[Havok]

Any emulator requires more processor power to run properly. Look at VMWare and the such. I would say a best bet is to setup a pc with the most you are comfortable with spending, it will improve your Mame experience, as it is emulating the processors, and give you room to grow for newer versions.