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ps2 to usb - anyone try this? - pic attached
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Bloinkxp:
KenToad,

Do you have a USB KB?  That would allow you to avoid hot swapping.  I picked up a cheap one from a Computer Show for $10.  I know that some people are attached to their keyboards and this may not be an option, but I thought I should "throw it out there".

-d
KenToad:

--- Quote from: quarterback on April 25, 2005, 12:31:54 pm ---
I know this doesn't answer your hot-swapping question, but I'm not sure why you'd need to hotswap. Your post doesn't indicate what you want to swap with what.

MY SETUP:
Spinner -> serial
Keyboard -> ps2
mouse -> ps2
Keywiz -> ps2
trackball -> ps2

Two of the last 4 are hooked up through the USB thingy.   If your spinner is a mouse hack, then remove the mouse from the above configuration (use the trackball) and attach the spinner to the ps2 port where the mouse previously was.


--- End quote ---

Hey Quarterback,

I guess I meant hot-swappable just in terms of plugging the thing at any time after bootup and having it be functional.  I could get a usb keyboard and have considered doing so.  Also, I have a usb optical mouse and I can run that at the same time as the ps2 mouse hack.  What I can't do is plug the keywiz and the mouse hack into the computer while it's running and have those things start working immediately.  I am at home now and will further test this momentarily.  However, even if I went the usb keyboard route, I would still have to unplug and replug the connections from the control panel since my panel is way too big to be sitting on the desk all the time.  To give you an idea, here is my panel, as posted a while ago in project announcements.  Thanks for the helpful advice.

KenToad

KenToad:

--- Quote from: Tiger-Heli on April 25, 2005, 10:34:22 am ---
BTW, why can't you hot-swap the KeyWiz Eco. I do that all the time with no problems.

--- End quote ---

Okay Tiger-Heli, I just checked it out and got the KeyWiz to hot-swap.  My mouse hack, however, will not activate when it's plugged in after the computer has been turned on.  Is it related to the fact that I use a usb mouse and have never even used the mouse ps2 port for anything except the spinner--i.e. can the hardware hot-swap but only if it senses a device in the port at boot?  I've decided to go ahead and purchase one of those adaptors from the original post, mainly because I'd like the Keywiz to work somehow with the laptop.  I'll update with the review of the product when I get a chance to test it, although it sounds like I'll be making something up to return it--just can't bother explaining keyboard encoders and the like to Radio Shack salespeople, if you know what I mean.

KenToad
RandyT:

--- Quote from: 2600 on April 25, 2005, 11:05:33 am ---I'd love to see one of the manufacturers for these boards step up and say something about it, but not sure if they will.  In any case, I bet the response is we've done testing and it's worked for us, but it isn't designed to do this.

--- End quote ---

I have mentioned this before (I think) on the topic of hot-swapping PS/2.  It's totally at the user's risk, but having said that, I'm not sure how much risk there actually is with anything manufactured in the last 5 - 8 years or so.  My case is far more extreme than anyone else's is likely to be.  Here it is:

The system: P2 600 eMachine with just about the lowest end MB you could imagine.

I have hot swapped keyboards and encoders on this thing, no exaggeration, at least 5000 times.  Once, while prototyping, I mis-wired something and watched a resistor glow bright orange.  The port stopped working after that....for about 10minutes.  Once it cooled down, it was right as rain.

I also do a lot of testing on different systems and can say that I have never turned one off before plugging in a keyboard or encoder.  Never once saw a problem.  It doesn't mean that something might not happen to you, but it has never happened with me...with PS/2.

I can relate an experience that happened about 10 years ago though.  I was plugging a keyboard into my prized 486, you know, the big ugly 5-pin DIN deal, and I did indeed pop the fuse.  The cause was probably related to the fact that is was one of those old, power hungry (by today's standards) clicky keyboards that most likely didn't have a resistor on the power line to help limit the draw of the keyboard when it started up, as well as a small fuse on the motherboard. It was a long time ago and with hardware that bears little semblence to what is out there today (or even yesterday).

Something else to consider:  The power circuit on the KeyWiz is the same, whether for USB or PS/2 operation.  Some of you have probably noticed that the only difference hardware-wise between the USB GP-Wiz and the PS/2 KeyWiz is the connector.  There is a low value resistor on the power line that provides for a ramp to 5v, albeit a very short one.  This may too alleviate some of that surge at plug in time. 

So is there a conclusion to all of this?  Not really.  Just a bag of experience, coupled with some facts, a fairly loose specification for the port and the knowledge that the last thing a MB manufacturer wants to deal with is a rash of users with blown PS/2 port fuses (which works to your benefit here.)  But I will try to sum it up as best as I can.

Does it work? Yes, but you have to understand the risks, just like you do every day when you hop in your car to go to work. They are quite small, but they are there.  My expectation is that if you get away with it the first 10 - 15  times, you will continue to have no problems, as that has been my experience.

If the fuse pops is it the end for the motherboard?  Not usually.  It'll be a small pain in the butt, but you should only need to hack a keyboard extension cable and run a 5v line into it from the power supply, i.e. bypass the fuse that popped.  From there I expect that you could hot-swap until the cows came home (does anyone know where the cows actually went?)

If I plug in a KeyWiz (or other PS/2 encoder) with the power on and I blow my fuse, will you buy me a new motherboard?  No. :)  If you are using an ancient motherboard, play it safe and avoid it.  Otherwise, if you are really that worried about the small possibility of this happening, you should get a couple of USB GP-Wiz's or GP-Wiz49's and a cheap hub and hot-swap your heart out.

RandyT


BTW, as an interesting aside, how many folks reading this have had a problem with hot-swapping PS/2 in the last 8 years that they can absolutely attribute to it?  This may be a deserving of a poll question :)
KenToad:
Hey RandyT,

Thanks for joining the thread, especially with such a detailed reply.  I wanted to thank you personally for producing such quality products.  I'll have another order coming up here soon.  You won't know it's me ordering, of course, since you don't know my real name--ha.  Anyway, I think you're right about this deserving a poll.  Also, do you, or anyone else, have any experience with hot-plugging (in other words, with the computer running into a mouse port that was unused) a ps2 mouse?  For me, this may ultimately make me keep the adaptor even if it turns out not to work well with the Keywiz.  Otherwise, maybe I'll switch out my keywiz for a GP-Wiz and use the Keywiz for my upcoming bartop.  Thanks again.

KenToad
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