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Schiavo rumblings
mr.Curmudgeon:
--- Quote from: fredster on March 20, 2005, 01:15:16 pm ---The dems circulate similar memos about the Republicans.
--- End quote ---
Similar???
PUT UP OR SHUT UP.............
otherwise, you're doing it again...making a tremendously damning accusation without supporting it with any facts whatsoever. Just as you'd accuse me of doing. Then, when I show you the proof, you explain it away with, "Well, welcome to politics!" Your heresay smells of horseshit.
I am not deluded enough to think that Dems don't puch issues specifically to hurt Republicans, but I'LL ASK YOU FLAT OUT, show me ONE recent example of the democrats exploiting an issue such as this and exclaiming that it's "Great!"
They don't care about Terri, or her family. If they could get ahold of you family and exploit them, they would. This is a "tough issue" from Democrats because they have just enough common sense to understand that this is a personal issue involving the family, and they have just enough moral fortitude to resist grand-standing on top of a living corpse.
This is nothing more than a blatant power grab by the ethically challenged Republicans, the "Party of Tom DeLay." Every day they do something that makes me hate them more. This is just such a thing.
If you're really curious what they're up to, I suggest you read through the following article, "Trial By Legislation" at: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/03/20/opinion/courtwatch/main681785.shtml
I am continually disheartened by Bush supports and Conservatives on the right, in general, and their complete inability to call a spade a spade when it's necessary. This is dangerous territory and fredster, you're acting like nothing more than a cultist. If the dems did this you'd be furious...why can't you hold your party accountable when they step into other people's lives?
mrC
mr.Curmudgeon:
--- Quote from: DrewKaree on March 20, 2005, 01:49:32 pm ---
--- Quote from: fredster on March 20, 2005, 11:09:30 am ---
I do know that I am facing a similar situation in the future, maybe in 5 years. It's a situation that I hope nobody on this board ever has to face in any way shape or form.
--- End quote ---
I'm aware of your situation, bro. Yours isn't similar. You've said her relatives are in agreement with your view, and she isn't bedridden. I also have FAR more faith that whatever you choose to do, it won't appear ANYTHING like this case. Call me silly, but you already don't strike me as coming CLOSE to acting like Schiavo has, and I put a lot of stock in what you've already done for her as a damn good indicator of who you are as a person. More folks could stand to have a little "fredster" in them, IMO.
--- End quote ---
Drew, you asked for it. You are silly.
How short-sighted do you have to be to conclude that this sort of thing couldn't *ever* happen to fredster? Simply, because your powers of insight allow you to deem him a "good person", based on forum postings on the internet?
What if his wife's parent's changed their mind, what if fredster himself changes his mind. What if any number of other things occur to change the situation?
This is about the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT trampling on STATE GOVERNMENT and using a families emotional turmoil as plausible deniability. (We'll, they asked us to!!)
Time and again, it seems those on the right of the policital spectrum are incapable of defending against a wrong-headed position unless it absolutely happens to them.
From the article, "Trial By Legislation":
"QUESTION: What does that concept do the regular give and take between the court systems, the idea of comity and cooperation between judges?
ANSWER: It destroys it. But that's the whole point of this Congressional action. Not liking a particular result in a case that has been litigated fully and completely by a court with competent jurisdiction, Congress now has said that the game must be re-done with new rules that heavily favor one side over the other. The implications of this move are astonishing. Just think about it. Anytime Congress doesn't like the result in a particular case, it could swoop in and call a "do-over," which is essentially what this legislation represents. And this from a Congress that has for a decade or so tried to keep all sorts of citizens-- including disabled employees-- out of federal court. If this law is declared valid, no decision in any state court in the country will be immune from Congressional second-guessing. It would throw out of whack the entire concept of separation of powers. The constitutional law expert Tribe calls it "trial by legislation" and he is right."
mrC
JB:
--- Quote from: mr.Curmudgeon on March 20, 2005, 05:05:56 pm ---This is about the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT trampling on STATE GOVERNMENT and using a families emotional turmoil as plausible deniability. (We'll, they asked us to!!)
--- End quote ---
Actually, it's federal legislature backing up state legislature after state legislature gets it's butt kicked by state court.
Remember, the Florida legislature ran a bill through EXPLICITLY DESIGNED to reinsert Schiavo's feeding tube in 2003.
The courts bounced it out of effect, but not before the tube was reinserted, starting the whole legal process over again.
fredster:
MrC,
--- Quote ---making a tremendously damning accusation without supporting it with any facts whatsoever
--- End quote ---
Democrats and Republicans send out internal memos about political stratagy all the freaking time. To you to claim ignorance is insulting your own intelligence. Too easy =
http://committeeforjustice.org/cgi-data/commentary/files/95.shtml
Google search for "democratic party internal memos attacking bush" Just do a search and in .7 seconds be "shocked".
What's the basic issue with this Mr.C? Republicans messing around with "family" rights ?
It's a custody battle. It's a battle between two estranged family members over the welfare of a dependent.
The basic question is Terry's wishes. The Mother and Father have went to the media and all of their politicians with emotive speeches to save the life of their child. They have portrayed the husband as a greedy lecher that wants to off his wife. That's the issue. The husband hasn't went before camera anywhere I have seen to plead his case. That's another issue.
It's important now Because once it's done, there is no appeal. It hits hard to lots of people.
--- Quote ---Time and again, it seems those on the right of the policital spectrum are incapable of defending against a wrong-headed position unless it absolutely happens to them.
--- End quote ---
Excuse me while I puke okay?
--- Quote ---This is dangerous territory and fredster, you're acting like nothing more than a cultist. If the dems did this you'd be furious...why can't you hold your party accountable when they step into other people's lives?
--- End quote ---
No I wouldn't. I'm not that partisan. I vote for the man, not the party. I'm a republican most of the time, but I split tickets when it calls for it. I vote against republicans in local and state elections if the opposing candidate shows me they have integrity and ideas. In this federal cycle, the republicans have it.
Federal level is no different.
You are acting like a "cultist". You don't like it that the republicans brought this up. Hell, this is a civil rights issue to you isn't it? Where were the dems on this? I say let them all have their say and be done with it. I'm interested with what both sides have to say. Unfortunately, I don't hear much of anything valuable from the left on this one except that the courts have decided.
What if this isn't Terry's wish? What about her mother? Shouldn't she have a right to say that her child should live or die? What about the Husband? Is he acting in behalf of his wife and fighting for her civil right to have medical treatment removed?
--- Quote ---How short-sighted do you have to be to conclude that this sort of thing couldn't *ever* happen to fredster? Simply, because your powers of insight allow you to deem him a "good person", based on forum postings on the internet?
--- End quote ---
No, because from time to time we get off the interent and acutally call each other and talk to each other on the phone. (novel way of communicating huh?)
Drew and I don't see eye to eye on a variety of subjects, but we discuss arcade games, women and tacos and their interlationship in the universe. Occassionally we also discuss family matters and politics. We talk about things we agree and disagree on.
Like you and me. We both have a lot more in common that separate us. We both love Robotron. As a matter of fact, pm me and we can talk and discuss what an abortion I saw at the auction yesterday, a robotron board in a dynamo wide body cab with cheap joysticks.
We agree on many aspects as far as religion goes.
Nobody can agree with everybody on any issue. Particularly when you frame this as some kind of Republican hatchet job. It's not. It's a media feeding frenzy generated by loving parents and a man who wants to help his wife do what he believes she wanted.
mr.Curmudgeon:
--- Quote from: fredster on March 20, 2005, 06:27:20 pm ---MrC,
--- Quote ---making a tremendously damning accusation without supporting it with any facts whatsoever
--- End quote ---
Democrats and Republicans send out internal memos about political stratagy all the freaking time. To you to claim ignorance is insulting your own intelligence. Too easy =
http://committeeforjustice.org/cgi-data/commentary/files/95.shtml
Google search for "democratic party internal memos attacking bush" Just do a search and in .7 seconds be "shocked".
--- End quote ---
So in your mind attacking Bush, is the same as dragging a family out for some "morality" sideshow? Ok, that's clear now. Nice moral equivilancy you've got their fredster. No wonder you can continually support Bush. It's clear now. I've met your mental brick wall.
--- Quote ---What's the basic issue with this Mr.C? Republicans messing around with "family" rights ?
--- End quote ---
Basic issue: ISN'T THE REPUBLICAN PARTY ABOUT SMALLER GOVERNMENT? First, they try to shove their religion down our throats, then they try to shove their idea of marriage down our throats, now they'd attempt to legislate whether or not we have the right to make our own decisions regarding death?
It's one more measure of the unbelievable level of hypocrisy running rampant in the right-wing today. For example, Bush and his cronies piss all over STEM-CELL research, which may be one of the only ways to improve a person with Terri's initial prognosis, then they have the gall to hoist her deteriorating body in front of the world and scream, 'Foul!"
It's disgusting.
--- Quote ---It's a custody battle. It's a battle between two estranged family members over the welfare of a dependent.
The basic question is Terry's wishes.
--- End quote ---
From my understanding of the case, the state of Florida has looked at this MULTIPLE times and the court found that before the accident that left her incapacitated, she had said that she did not want to be kept alive on life support.
Given that, this fight would then be about the politicians trying to deprive her of that right, and/or using her body to further their agenda. Either way, they have no business intervening.
In Florida, there have been 19 hearings before 6 different judges. Every aspect of this case has been very carefully examined. The Supreme Court has already refused to see the case.
Why does this need to be dragged out any further?
mrC