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Rubber Band Beliefs
Dartful Dodger:
--- Quote from: Crazy Cooter on March 30, 2005, 01:13:00 pm ---How many times have you heard: "It's against my religion"?
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DrewKaree:
--- Quote from: Dartful Dodger on March 30, 2005, 01:59:00 pm ---
Even a sociopath has a set of values and limits.
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I could have sworn that shmokes was just a godless heathen who was so evil it was starting to turn his face green. You're telling me he can tell right from wrong? Dartful, I think you're starting to go soft in the head. Next you'll be telling us you think we need to enact more gun control laws! ;)
--- Quote ---But don't you think that religion hands over a set of values that limit ones thoughts/actions? How many times have you heard: "It's against my religion"? Most people see religion as law and they just conform.
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Cooter, you just kinda explained my point. If people see religion as law and they just conform, how can that be considered a "belief"? Religions lay out their set of values and usually explain their case behind 'em, and if you agree with them, you DO follow them.
People who tell you "it's against my religion" probably haven't stopped to consider why it is they do the things they do, or haven't the slightest interest in developing their faith by questioning the precepts it's founded on. It's the same as lumping someone into a particular religion because you think a few of their beliefs fit your views of that religion, without questioning further to see what exactly their beliefs are.
DrewKaree:
that didn't really "feel" right to me, and after re-reading it, mebbe this'll help.
We have laws that govern the use of roads in America. We follow those laws, aren't they handed over and designed to limit your thoughts and actions? We se them as laws and conform, but that doesn't make the DMV a church, their handbook with the laws explained isn't a bible, following the rules of the road isn't a religion.
Meh.
jbox:
--- Quote ---If an atheist feels he should be able to go 35 in a 30, he'll go 35.
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Except there is a process for a speed limit to be changed even if the person currently administering the process doesn't agree with you. To equate religious institutions with government processes seems like agreeing with Cooter's point (rational malleability). :o
I also agree with the observation that people tend to "shop" from their "religion" per se. For example, lots of people are aligned with religions that tell them that being wealthy will damn them to hell, but they still try to make more money... ;)
shmokes:
Religion does not create morals and values. This should be obvious. If only one religion is the "true" religion, that means the rest of the religions are man-made. If man made the religion, then man decided on what values that religion would teach. What if it turns out that all the 9/11 hijackers really DO get 72 virgins or whatever. Does that mean that 90% of Americans have no values or morals cos without god (alah) how could there be morals?
If, somehow, it is proven conclusively that there never has been and is no god will you go out and start murdering people and stealing from them? Doubtful. The rest of us would still just throw your ass in prison.
I suspect that for the most part most of our values boil down to instinct, self preservation/advancement, reasoning and, perhaps first and foremost, the golden rule.