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4-8 way Joystick Suggestions

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JODY:

I never got into the restrictor thing.

RandyT:


--- Quote from: RayB on March 20, 2005, 09:08:28 pm ---Randy I don't understand why you replied the way you did to Andy. He's 100% correct. (and he never claimed you COULDN'T electronically restrict joys--he said you could, but it just wouldn't feel right in most 4-way games).

--- End quote ---

And that is where I 100% disagree.  What is important is that when you intend to move in a direction, that you actually go there.  That is the sole purpose of the physical restriction with a conventional 4 switch joystick, and with that technology, that's how it's done.  But another technology exists now that will accomplish the same thing and feel virtually identical, even without the mechanical limiters.  That doesn't make it any less of a "4-way" than any other technology.  If it works, it works...period.

As for why I responded in this manner, if you simply take a look at the post he responded to, electronic restriction was never even brought up by that poster.  But strangely, it was the focus of his reply.  Then there was the wildly incorrect lumping of 49-ways into the 8 way electronic restriction discussions (8-ways can never be electronically restricted, but it's apples and oranges to make that comparison)  And to state that using anything other than a mechanically restricted joystick is "stirring porridge" is utter rubbish.

But, If you would like to venture a guess as to why that was, I'd be happy to listen. 

RandyT





 

Lilwolf:

actually he was responding to daves question on why not an 8way.

mame locks out diagonals already.  So doing it electronically doesn't do anything on an 8way since they are already ignored.  That is what he is talking about.  He also mentioned the 49 ways sure, but he was talking about what makes a 4way a 4way is the restrictor..  When you are up, you are up... no ands ifs or butts... and very obvious.

I personally would love to try your 49 way and see how good it is. 
When I only had 8ways, I would rather play pengo on my keyboard then on my arcade machine.  Really made that much difference.  This was before MAME automatically removed diagonals.. but I was do it by hand with the "up, not left, not right" trick.

The 49 ways have the ability to keep track of grandularity of the direction and do a better job of saying up without worrying about hitting that diagonal.  I'm guessing it will be MUCH better then an 8way... But it will still not have the same feel... Doesn't mean it wont be as good just different. 

Currently I believe Donkey Kong is the test.  If you can easily play donkey kong and make it up the ladder every time without fail (other then user error :)  ) then its a great solution.   But the motion from up to left on a true 4 way, you will feel a bump around the corners... Thats all.

RandyT:


--- Quote from: Lilwolf on March 21, 2005, 07:35:48 am ---actually he was responding to daves question on why not an 8way.

--- End quote ---

And this relates to electronic restriction....how?


--- Quote ---mame locks out diagonals already.  So doing it electronically doesn't do anything on an 8way since they are already ignored.  That is what he is talking about.

--- End quote ---

This is a given.  But it was answering a question  that wasn't asked....


--- Quote ---He also mentioned the 49 ways sure, but he was talking about what makes a 4way a 4way is the restrictor..  When you are up, you are up... no ands ifs or butts... and very obvious.

--- End quote ---

Think about it this way:  With a mechanical restrictor, the stick is forced into a very narrow physical position that ensures contact with (hopefully) only one switch at a time.  Electronic restriction on a 49-way opens up that very narrow position to one that is not narrow at all, and taking into account the mechanical properties of the stick and it centering mechanism, allows you to get the benefits of a 4-way without bashing the stick into immovable objects.  If you are physically disabled with a muscle control disorder, I don't recommend this approach, but everyone else will be fine.


--- Quote ---I personally would love to try your 49 way and see how good it is. 
When I only had 8ways, I would rather play pengo on my keyboard then on my arcade machine.  Really made that much difference.

--- End quote ---

Before the 49--way solution, I had the OMNI's on my panel.  They switch from 8 to 4 way with mechanical restriction and just about everyone who tries them loves the feel of the stick, including myself.  After replacing them with the 49-way, I see higher scores and more comfortable gameplay.  It also give a more authentic feel on a majority of the games due to the centering grommet and expanded throw.  So I'm not comparing them to something unrelated, I'm comparing them to the "old school alternative".


--- Quote ---The 49 ways have the ability to keep track of grandularity of the direction and do a better job of saying up without worrying about hitting that diagonal.  I'm guessing it will be MUCH better then an 8way... But it will still not have the same feel... Doesn't mean it wont be as good just different. 

--- End quote ---

Well there's the rub.  The original poster thought  his 8-way was "just as good", and was told it wasn't and the 49-way was thrown in with it...


--- Quote ---Currently I believe Donkey Kong is the test.  If you can easily play donkey kong and make it up the ladder every time without fail (other then user error :)  ) then its a great solution.   But the motion from up to left on a true 4 way, you will feel a bump around the corners... Thats all.

--- End quote ---

If this wasn't the case with that or any other 4-way game, do you honestly believe I would be making this much noise about it? :)

RandyT

Lilwolf:

I took the electronic restriction based on a few people who asked for keyboard encoders to restrict diagonals.  I talked in length with Ron (MK64) about it in the past before mame added it.  We found the "up not left not right" solution and realized it wasn't useful in hardware.  I personally thought Andy was talking about that.

As for the physical restrictors.  I personally like the feel.  They dont' feel like an 8way.  I have a few Wicos and thought they where good until I tried the anniversary joystick and think their better.  But all in all.. I had an Ultimate for years before I bought a Super.  I was happy with the ultimates until then.... Now I don't have a single ultimate running.  You get used to a feel in a joystick...

I'm not saying that the 49way wont play 4ways well.  In fact I thought think it will do a great job.  I don't believe it will feel the same... but should take care of the 8way problems... but will still feel like an 8way... 

I think the happs will probalby be the ultimate all in one solution.  But even then... I think if I was going to have a dedicated 4way machine, I would personally like the aniversary because of the feel... but until I try your solution I may think different.



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