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New Product: 49-Way USB Interface - The GP-Wiz49 with DRS Technology (TM)
SirPoonga:
Exactly, you have to think in terms of a gamer playing a game than a hardware guy making hardware.
When a gamer says the controls don't "feel" right it's because the resopnse the controls have and the feedback from the game are not in sync with how the gamer thinks they should work.
By changing the definitions, even one grid point like changing a diagonal bias on a 4way restriciton, will feel different to a gamer.
Actually, it could mean the physical feel is not right either, like there's too much tension in the joystick spring, etc... but depending on how the gamer describes the "feeling" you will know if he is talking about how the hardware is phyically versus how the software is interpetting the hardware. They will usually say something specificly related to the hardware, like my wrist is getting strained or the joystick feels loose (weak spring).
But the feel most of us are talking about here is the interaction between the 49way and ultimately the game.
tetsujin:
--- Quote from: RandyT on March 02, 2005, 02:08:34 am ---
--- Quote from: Grasshopper on March 01, 2005, 05:38:33 pm ---I'd also like to reiterate what others have already said. There needs to be a way of changing the joystick's mode through software as well as by pressing buttons. And programmable customised grids would also be very useful.
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I felt this type of extra baggage had the possibility of jeopardizing cross-platform HID compliance. It also de-simplifies the use of the device by requiring software to use it.
In some instances it would be good, but not so good in others.
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Thanks for providing an answer to my question. Personally, though, I feel that putting that control over the device's behavior on the PC side (where it belongs) is very important, as I want to build my cabinet without assuming the people playing it will know things like the button layouts for a game, the type of joystick it uses, etc. beforehand. Where possible the 8-way/4-way/2-way/49-way selection should be taken care of for them. (I say "where possible" because I don't have a way to do that with T-Stick+'s because I have no way to control the mechanical slider with software - but as this is a problem of controlling software behavior it seems very possible)
If you decide you would like to add that kind of support without complicating the encoder firmware, one way to approach it would be to make it easier for an outside circuit to set the encoder's mode. That way the mode switch could be done with parallel port interfacing, or with something like a general-purpose I/O board connected to USB. That's possible already, of course, except that operation of the game buttons can interfere with that unless there's some kind of external cut-off inserted. (It'd cost an extra three I/O lines from the microcontroller to provide this kind of control without using the button lines...)
Anyway, it's just a thought. For now I'll just assume that you're right about the complications involved in controlling this feature through USB HID, which would otherwise seem the most straightforward way of controlling the feature through software.
SirPoonga:
--- Quote from: tetsujin on March 02, 2005, 01:45:24 pm ---
--- Quote from: RandyT on March 02, 2005, 02:08:34 am ---
--- Quote from: Grasshopper on March 01, 2005, 05:38:33 pm ---I'd also like to reiterate what others have already said. There needs to be a way of changing the joystick's mode through software as well as by pressing buttons. And programmable customised grids would also be very useful.
--- End quote ---
I felt this type of extra baggage had the possibility of jeopardizing cross-platform HID compliance.
--- End quote ---
--- End quote ---
RandyT:
--- Quote from: SirPoonga on March 02, 2005, 01:14:48 pm ---Exactly, you have to think in terms of a gamer playing a game than a hardware guy making hardware.
But the feel most of us are talking about here is the interaction between the 49way and ultimately the game.
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I know this is hard for you guys to believe, but I know these things already. I'm not just "some hardware guy". I lived in the arcades in my youth, and converted a real arcade cabinet for use with computers and consoles before some of the crowd here were even born. I am a pioneer in this hobby, not a "johnny come lately" (self proclaimed, of course :D )
But the hardware guy in me says this:
The only other "feel" you can achieve is the "feel" that it sucks.
There isn't the wiggle room with this as some of you folks think. It really goes: "Works well" to "What a stupid idea" with little if anything inbetween. These sticks just do not have the resolution to have the flexibility you are thinking they possess.
And I would need my head examined if I left non-strategic dead spots in the definitions. :D
RandyT
RandyT:
--- Quote from: SirPoonga on March 02, 2005, 01:55:14 pm ---I'm with you on this one. There would have to be some sort of flash memeory on the encoder that can be programmed via PC software the how the ipac is programmed. Then the software in the wiz49's IC would have to read from that flash memory the config for handling the 49way's pins to analog value.
This should be doable would definately take time and programming.
The hard part would be coming up with software that is cross platform, not the hardware. Right now, I program my ipac via the windows utility (is there alinux) then put the ipac on the linux arcade. There's nothing that says that can't be done here unless HID is disallowing a way to program the hardware.
Edit: I just realized you were talking about changing modes. simular thing applies however the software to program the hardware or change the mode would have to have an API (be it commandline or whatever) that a FE can use. It wouldj be the FE's responsibility to change the mode.
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And then it would cost $50 because of all the extra hardware and software development, hardware, custom boards, etc.. and I would burn through half of my market because the device suddenly looks too complicated to the people that just want a simple solution, and too expensive for anyone to consider.
Right at this moment, we have people that think it's the greatest thing in the world to be able to blindly lift and twist on the stick to go from 4 to 8 ways, but somehow pressing a couple of buttons is suddenly "too inconvenient".
You should spend a day in my shoes.
BTW, hows that controls.dat project coming that you guys started years ago? See? It's easy for someone on the outside to decide what should and shouldn't be possible. In my mind, you guys should have had not only the data collection side ready, but a full blown 3D interface with all the trimmings by now. But I'm not close enough to the project to understand your thought process or what is ultimately impeding your progress, nor will I tell anyone that I am.
And just so there's no confusion, the above is not a "dig", just an example SirP might be able to relate to. I personally could care less what the status of that project is (although I do believe it to be a worthy cause.) :)
RandyT