New Product: 49-Way USB Interface - The GP-Wiz49 with DRS Technology (TM)

[RandyT]

The GP-Wiz49 with DRS Technology (Digital Restrictor Selection (TM) ) is the ultimate solution for using a 49-way joystick on a PC and includes 23 additional digital inputs for use with other controls.

DRS Technology allows a single 49-way Joystick to take the place of dedicated 8-way, 4-way, Diagonal and 2-way joysticks.

DRS Technology doesn't require special drivers or config files.

The joystick mode can be selected at any time.  Just hold the Joystick Mode button and press the button associated with the desired mode of operation.


Available modes are:

Raw49 - Normal 49-way operation.

Progressive49 - Allows for finer 49-way control

8way DRS - Restricts joystick output to Vertical, Horizontal and Diagonal directions.

4way DRS - Restricts joystick output to Vertical and Horizontal directions only.

Diagonal DRS - Restricts joystick output to Diagonal directions only.

2wayH DRS - Restricts joystick output to Horizontal directions only.

2wayV DRS - Restricts joystick output to Vertical directions only.

16way DRS - Restricts joystick output to Vertical, Horizontal and Diagonal directions, plus 8 more directions in-between.

Additional Features:

-  Auto Detection and operation with both Midway/Atari/Happ and Williams* 49-way joysticks.  (Williams mode tests are complete (Thanks Kremmit!))

-  23 additional inputs for conventional Joysticks, buttons or similar switch based devices, 5 of which can be "shifted" for dual purpose buttons.

-  Fully compatible with software with Joystick or Gamepad support

-  Screw terminals on every input for fast and simple installation. (MAX Version ONLY)

-  Super-Fast USB Gamepad functionality.  Reports the status of ALL inputs 100 times a second!!!  Much faster than USB Keyboard technology.

-  No limitation on the number of simultaneous button presses and each input has equal priority.

-  Unique Device Names and ID numbers for multiple unit installations on the same computer.  Devices show up as GPWiz49, GPWiz49-2, GPWiz49-3 and GPWiz49-4 (respectively) in the "Gaming Options" dialog. 

-  Plug and Play HID device.  Tested with 98SE, Win2K/XP.  Will most likely work with other systems that comply with the the HID specification..

-  Completely bus powered.

-  Common GROUND wiring method.  Only one input wire and a shared ground line to each switch.

-  Small footprint.   Fits anywhere.

$19.95 Eco Version and $22.95 "No-Solder" Eco Version Includes:

-  GP-Wiz49 Eco Interface Board
-  6' USB Cable
-  Printed Doc Sheet


$34.95 MAX Version Includes:

-  GP-Wiz49 MAX Interface Board
-  6' USB Cable
-  PCB Mounting hardware
-  Printed Doc Sheet


Full-release version available for order now.

Thanks for the continued support, and as always questions and constructive comments are welcome.

RandyT




* Midway, Atari, Happ and Williams are trademarks of their respective organizations and have no relationship to IDVT Inc. or GroovyGameGear.com

[JODY]

Does it send input to Mame while in 49-way raw mode so that Mame Analog+ would be required?

[Kremmit]

Jody, you beat me by about 30 seconds! 

Does my PC see them as analog, or what, when in Raw or Progressive mode?

[RandyT]

Output is understood as analog.  No special software is necessary.

RandyT

[NoOne=NBA=]

RandyT,

Can you elaborate a bit on the real-life functioning of the "restrictor modes" on this?


Specific questions I would have are:

1) In the 4-way restricted mode, at what point from dead center (on the 7x7 grid) does the joystick begin sending a directional signal?

2) If you are pressing dead UP in 4-way mode (value of 3y/0x on the optical detectors), and then start moving toward the dead RIGHT position, at what point does the digital restrictor swap direction input to the computer?
Is there a dead spot in the middle, during this movement?

3) In 8-way mode, where are the "swap spots" on the 7x7 grid for Up/Up-Right/Right?
For example is 3x/1y a Right signal, or an Up-Right signal?
How about 2x/1y, etc....?

[SirPoonga]

VERY COOL!  I want a 49way now.

BTW, wouldn't a better interface instead of several buttons to change mode just a couple of buttons.  an up/down selection button (or just a change button) and LED indicators that indicate what mode you are in.  That would work better with instruction card type of things and oyu wouldn;t need as much control space.  And it wouldn't be as ugly to have 1/2 buttons and a row of labelled LEDs vs a row of 8 buttons for EACH 49way.

Heck, if you could output a signal for each mose (IE to light a LED) one could get createive and have a set of LEDs around the joystick that indicate which directions it reads   That would be pretty cool!

[SirPoonga]

Raw49 - Normal 49-way operation.

Progressive49 - Allows for finer 49-way control

Explain in more detail.  Are these the icons on your graphics to the way left?  If someone made an instruction card to tell people how to use could one use those graphics? 

[NIVO]

Randy, lets have that small lcd to hook up to this so we can see what mode we are in   

[RandyT]

VERY COOL!  I want a 49way now.

BTW, wouldn't a better interface instead of several buttons to change mode just a couple of buttons.  an up/down selection button (or just a change button) and LED indicators that indicate what mode you are in.  That would work better with instruction card type of things and oyu wouldn;t need as much control space.  And it wouldn't be as ugly to have 1/2 buttons and a row of labelled LEDs vs a row of 8 buttons for EACH 49way.

Somehow, I knew I didn't explain that one well enough. 

The  first 7 player buttons on the interface are also  the "Joystick Mode" buttons.  The only extra button you need on the panel is the "Mode" button, and that can be concealed if you desire it to be.  When not changing modes, the 7 player buttons behave like all the others.

A small label below or above each of the buttons will do nicely, and won't use any inputs that could be used for controls.

RandyT

[RandyT]

Raw49 - Normal 49-way operation.

Progressive49 - Allows for finer 49-way control

Explain in more detail.  Are these the icons on your graphics to the way left?  If someone made an instruction card to tell people how to use could one use those graphics? 

Yes.  In fact, you could use those to label the buttons I spoke of in the last post .

Raw is just that.  Raw, linear math defining the zones.

Progressive takes  smaller steps before going to full in any direction.  Allows for better use of applications requiring more delicate control.

RandyT

[Yander]

Gah!!!! now I can't decide which GroovyGG product to buy. To many good choices!!! 

[RandyT]

RandyT,

Can you elaborate a bit on the real-life functioning of the "restrictor modes" on this?

Most of what you are asking is, unfortunately,  proprietary info.

The best I can offer is that the device is designed to behave as close as technically possible to that of  the dedicated devices it is designed to replace.

Think leaf-switch joystick in feel and performance, but with a lot more capabilities and better accuracy.

RandyT

[SirPoonga]

VERY COOL!  I want a 49way now.

BTW, wouldn't a better interface instead of several buttons to change mode just a couple of buttons.  an up/down selection button (or just a change button) and LED indicators that indicate what mode you are in.  That would work better with instruction card type of things and oyu wouldn;t need as much control space.  And it wouldn't be as ugly to have 1/2 buttons and a row of labelled LEDs vs a row of 8 buttons for EACH 49way.

Somehow, I knew I didn't explain that one well enough. 

The  first 7 player buttons on the interface are also  the "Joystick Mode" buttons.  The only extra button you need on the panel is the "Mode" button, and that can be concealed if you desire it to be.  When not changing modes, the 7 player buttons behave like all the others.

A small label below or above each of the buttons will do nicely, and won't use any inputs that could be used for controls.

RandyT

Ewwww.  That may not mesh well in many setups, one would NEED 7 buttons.  Many people only have a 6 button layout for one player.

Like I would go and buy two so I can have a two player setup.  however I only have 6 buttons per player.  I wouldn;t want to put that 7th input as a coin or start as that would be akward to use.

Again, I suggest a mode change button and someway of indicating what mode you are in.

[spidermonkey]

Oh man ! I can't believe how much cool new stuff is coming out lately. Damn you Randy.Now I have to sell my SJC so I can buy one of these. This interface sounds like it blows away the SJC board in every way ! I'll be ordering *very* soon. I have the Williams Arch Rival orange balltop versions so I'm hoping that your interface will work fine with these. I can't see why it wouldn't. Please post when this is confirmed.
And thanks for bringing us such cool products in the past couple of years. Your hard work and passion for this hobby continues to bring us solutions that make our cabs better and better. Hats off to you for listening to the community and bringing us a steady flow of usefull products. We dream up this stuff and you end up making it a reality. VERY COOL INDEED !

[RandyT]

That may not mesh well in many setups, one would NEED 7 buttons.

Not really.  In all honesty, the last two modes are pretty much optional.  I.e. included because I could, and not because they were absolutely necessary.  However, I am seeing a lot of the 7 button panels out there lately, and if I were to build a new one tomorrow, it would have 7 buttons on it per stick (2P only, of course)

You wouldn't miss the 2wayV mode at all on a 6 button panel.

I'll run down my thought processes on this one, as I did consider the method you are speaking of.

The method you described would take multiple button presses to get to the mode you wanted because it is sequential in nature, and would require 2 extra panel buttons and 7 LED's to be usable.  LED indicators would use 7 inputs, the stick uses 8 and the  selector buttons (these would have to be dedicated) would use 2..  This would  leave 15 inputs for buttons.  While this is enough for most purposes, the price of admission in terms of complexity and effort is much greater than the method I settled on.

The current method is a direct selection of the desired mode and needs no indicators, as you can easily and quickly select the desired mode before beginning.  It makes use of buttons that are already there and pays no price in available inputs, leaving 23 per controller to use as needed.

My goal was to provide something that functions well.and be something that could easily be installed and used on just about every panel, by users of all skill levels.

I'll consider the flashy one for a future product.

Thanks for the input.

RandyT

[Flinkly]

i know i turned you down when you offered me one, but with this full length explanation, it's starting to sound better and better.  i would love to hear how the williams does when testing...since this is the 49 way i have.  so keep up the good work and get the tests done as soon as possible.

[DarkKobold]

Congratulations on getting this working Randy! Good job, stellar effort!

[SirPoonga]

Actually, I for one would use all the modes .

ACtually, it wouldn't be an iput.  The best method would to have another IC control the LEDs that light up.  This could be hacked to power relays which would implement my LEDs around the joystick idea.

The other thing I could see a user wanting to do which would be completely possible with your current setup via hardware, is have the setup change automatically based on controls.dat or mame's info.  Just hook up a relay circuit to the parallel port.  Custom program FE to select the appropiate button based on controls.dat when game is selected
See people, another reason to donate time to controls.dat!

Now what might be cool to hack into this is atari volcanos to select mode and indicate which mode is seleted (can be done in hardware with relays and such pretty easily) so it looks like atari Xs and 0s.

ok, this product is giving me way too many ideas...

[Xiaou2]

 While nice for standard 49 way...

   I personally see the additional features as purely a novelty.

  If playing a 2way game of  galaga... and you accidentally press down+diagnol left...
then your move will not register.  This will mean you will have made a costly pause.. and may have died as a result of the non action.

  As for the way a 49 way responds..   its not quite as smooth and fast as a simple
wico leaf joystick.   Its resistence is higher with the rubber x... or in the case if the new
style 49ways... there is a center zone that is hard to get out of (same as an analog stick).

  I suppose this would be ok for a bartop if you wanted to play sinistar that bad.. and yet needed the other control ability without having the room to add the other controls... but other than that.. its not as good as the real mechanical solutions.

 I didnt remember seeing if that supported more than one joy...  and to me, that would be more important a feature than the other stuff.    Having to buy 2 encoders to have a dual 49 way joystick setup kinda stinks.



 

[Flinkly]

no one is forcing you to buy it, but for those who don't have the money to spend on 6 different kinds of joysticks might enjoy this.  and at that price, buying two isn't that bad, mostly if you know how to solder, which i would choose just due to the ease of it, but on top of that, it's cheaper.  and for a question to whomever gets the first one, how does it compare to what the sjc already does?  do they do the basic 49 way stuff the same?  is one better?  i might just get one of these because they are cheaper, but is there a reason to consider the sjc?  any input would be appreciated.

[SirPoonga]

FYI, you can do this with analog+ mame and a 49way, however I don't think there is a button push way of switching control patterns on the fly.  Just letting people know this isn;t a new idea, just a hardware version of something that's been done in software for some time.

[RandyT]

While nice for standard 49 way...

   I personally see the additional features as purely a novelty.

  If playing a 2way game of  galaga... and you accidentally press down+diagnol left...
then your move will not register.  This will mean you will have made a costly pause.. and may have died as a result of the non action.

Statements like these make me think the unwritten rule stating that one should have some real experience with something before "poo-poo"ing  it,  should actually be put in writing.

I'm not sure what you are referring to with the above, but I wholeheartedly assure you that this does NOT happen. 

As for the way a 49 way responds..   its not quite as smooth and fast as a simple
wico leaf joystick.   Its resistence is higher with the rubber x...

This may be.  I was referring to the one I have been working with, the Midway variety.  But this one is very smooth and very fast..

In fact I have a WICO leaf right in front of me and the two feel virtually identical.

or in the case if the new
style 49ways... there is a center zone that is hard to get out of (same as an analog stick).

  I suppose this would be ok for a bartop if you wanted to play sinistar that bad.. and yet needed the other control ability without having the room to add the other controls... but other than that.. its not as good as the real mechanical solutions.

Again,  you are comparing apples and oranges.   Forget what you think you know.  It doesn't apply here.

RandyT

[NoOne=NBA=]

no one is forcing you to buy it

I am NOT!

[Popcorrin]

When you refer to raw49 and progressive49 is this similar to linear vs exponetial scaling?

[NoOne=NBA=]

Statements like these make me think the unwritten rule stating that one should have some real experience with something before "poo-poo"ing  it,  should actually be put in writing.

Exactly why I asked the questions that I did earlier.
I was trying to learn how this device handles the "digital restriction" before posting my concerns about it.

That's the downside to "proprietary" information--if you don't RELEASE it, then nobody will KNOW it, which leads to speculative posts.

[Popcorrin]

RandyT with the way you are pumping out products I was wondering when you were going to release something similar to the jpac?  Also, is there analog interface board in the works?

[Daniel270]

Sounds like this would be the ideal solution for those of us noodling with the idea of a dedicated cab for Sinistar using MAME^TM

 

[NoOne=NBA=]

In answer to Xiaou2's post,

Using the 2-way digital restrictor SHOULD cause ANY input left of center to send left, and ANY input right of center to send right--theoretically.
RandyT didn't answer my question earlier, so I don't KNOW how far you have to push to get it to detect.

I am ASSUMING that it will detect an (x=1, y=0) condition, and resolve it properly to mean "go right".
Likewise, in specific response to his example, the (x=-1, y=-2) (a.k.a. down, with a little left) SHOULD resolve to a "go left" signal as soon as x=-1.
The y axis is basically completely disabled in 2-way mode.

What you are left with is a dead spot on the joystick from -1 < x < 1.
If the stick hasn't gone far enough left to hit -1, or far enough right to hit 1, then you don't get ANY output to the software from the device--exactly like any other 2-way out there.

The only difference being that you can fine tune a leafswitch 2-way to react IMMEDIATELY off-center--which may be a CRITICAL difference, in that it will create almost NO dead spot in the middle.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am GUESSING that, IF it was implemented properly, the digital restrictor on this SHOULD give performance at least on par with, and possibly better than, a P-360.

I am basing this on the supposition that the stick will in fact resolve the level 1 ring, which SHOULD give it a slightly smaller dead spot than the one on the P-360.

Add to this the fact that it SHOULD be capable of resolving a slightly smaller area as diagonal (when strafing around in the corner), and it SHOULD make for a really nice Robotron-type stick by spreading more of the shots around, instead of sending the major portion of them diagonally.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Without more information from RandyT (grid mappings, etc...) I don't even WANT to venture a guess as to how this will handle 4-way mode--which would be my biggest concern from a do-all standpoint.

My biggest concern is how it will resolve the true diagonals close in.

[paigeoliver]

RandyT,

Can you elaborate a bit on the real-life functioning of the "restrictor modes" on this?

Most of what you are asking is, unfortunately,  proprietary info.

The best I can offer is that the device is designed to behave as close as technically possible to that of  the dedicated devices it is designed to replace.

Think leaf-switch joystick in feel and performance, but with a lot more capabilities and better accuracy.

RandyT

How secret could it possibly be Randy? I mean once I order mine I am going to be able to hook it up myself and SEE how it is interpreting the 7x7 grid for each mode. That isn't really the kind of info that you can keep secret.

[RandyT]

FYI, you can do this with analog+ mame and a 49way, however I don't think there is a button push way of switching control patterns on the fly.  Just letting people know this isn;t a new idea, just a hardware version of something that's been done in software for some time.

SirP,

We can take your analogy even one step further.  The method you described above is just a coarser Analog-style control and is also "nothing new"  Software for the PC has taken digital co-ordinate data and converted it from day one.  The  control  code looked at those co-ordinate values and made decisions  for the gameplay based on where in that 255x255 grid those co-ordinates pointed to, setting boundries, which when crossed caused the program to do something different.  In fact, that methodology pre-dates even the PC.

A more recent example  is the not so "new idea" someone had to take the chore of converting the Analog signals to digital  away from the host PC and  relegate that task to the much more efficient microcontroller so that the  first exposure  the PC has to the data is in a  binary form that it can immediately act upon.  I am referring, of course, to the transition to USB gaming controls from the legacy game port.

But I'll play along.

On one hand you have something that works very narrowly, with only one joystick model, with only one piece of software, with missing modes, needs to send 4x the data to, of all things a keyboard encoder,  and based on the lukewarm reception of it, definitions that do not perform optimally (no offense intended to those involved in the attempt).  And then on top of that, there is the issue of another burden placed on the CPU to do  the translation.

On the other hand, you plug in the GPWiz49 and it works as adverstised.  No fancy configuring.  It works the same with ALL software. No additional burdens on the CPU.  All modes are covered and specifically designed with the hardware in mind, and yes, it is entirely hardware based.. That, in and of itself is unique, barring all of the other advances. It also costs less than other options that offer half as much.

Unless you can point me to something that you can honestly compare this to, I think it's safe to consider this a "new idea."

RandyT

[mahuti]

Well, hey, I think it's cool, and inexpensive enough for me to give it a try. I'll be buying one.

[RandyT]

How secret could it possibly be Randy? I mean once I order mine I am going to be able to hook it up myself and SEE how it is interpreting the 7x7 grid for each mode. That isn't really the kind of info that you can keep secret.

Sure I can..  I can delete this thread, remove them from my store, delete the source code and drink enough gin to erase the past 2 weeks of my life that I devoted to this project.

But I guess I'll just take my chances that folks won't try to reverse engineer something that is almost being given away in the larger scheme of things and jeopardize whatever possible interest I might have in developing new things for them in the future.   


RandyT

[paigeoliver]

How secret could it possibly be Randy? I mean once I order mine I am going to be able to hook it up myself and SEE how it is interpreting the 7x7 grid for each mode. That isn't really the kind of info that you can keep secret.

Sure I can..  I can delete this thread, remove them from my store, delete the source code and drink enough gin to erase the past 2 weeks of my life that I devoted to this project.

But I guess I'll just take my chances that folks won't try to reverse engineer something that is almost being given away in the larger scheme of things and jeopardize whatever possible interest I might have in developing new things for them in the future.   


RandyT

Hee hee. I am glad you made them, and most of us could probably correctly guess your grid interpretations anyway. I'll be ordering one, I guess it can replace the Q*Bert stick on my cabinet. I guess I just didn't see the mentioned information as being particularly secret, if anything providing diagrams of what it was doing would be a selling point, I know it would be for me. But I will buy one anyway!

Perhaps I missed this, but will you be adding 49-way sticks to your store?

[RandyT]

What you are left with is a dead spot on the joystick from -1 < x < 1.
If the stick hasn't gone far enough left to hit -1, or far enough right to hit 1, then you don't get ANY output to the software from the device--exactly like any other 2-way out there.

Heh.  You need me to confim this stuff?  You have it covered just fine.

The only difference being that you can fine tune a leafswitch 2-way to react IMMEDIATELY off-center--which may be a CRITICAL difference, in that it will create almost NO dead spot in the middle.

On the surface, that sounds like it might be desireable, but in reality, it's just a drawback.  If you have the switches that tight, you don't get faster movement, just unintended movements.  One tends to use gross motor skills with a joystick (unless you are talking about those tiny little Vectrex sticks you manipulate with your fingertips.)  The difference between a 1/16" deadzone and an 1/8" one isn't really going to affect your play nearly as much as you thinking you are stationary, when in reality you are moving left into enemy fire

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am GUESSING that, IF it was implemented properly, the digital restrictor on this SHOULD give performance at least on par with, and possibly better than, a P-360.

I am basing this on the supposition that the stick will in fact resolve the level 1 ring, which SHOULD give it a slightly smaller dead spot than the one on the P-360.

Add to this the fact that it SHOULD be capable of resolving a slightly smaller area as diagonal (when strafing around in the corner), and it SHOULD make for a really nice Robotron-type stick by spreading more of the shots around, instead of sending the major portion of them diagonally.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I believe every one of these  statements to be true.

Without more information from RandyT (grid mappings, etc...) I don't even WANT to venture a guess as to how this will handle 4-way mode--which would be my biggest concern from a do-all standpoint.

And it was mine as well.  This is the most unforgiving mode for any non-physically restricted joystick., but extensive testing shows that it does indeed work and work well.

I have to underscore something here though.  All testing thus far was with a particular variety of 49-way control.  If I see that the Williams is not able to live up to the performance of the  Midway/Atari/Happ model, and definitions cannot be developed  to make it work as well, support for this stick will be removed.  This would be unfortunate for those who may already be using one, but as they are no longer in production...well you get the idea.   In that unfortunate event, I might make a version available for these folks by special request as not to leave them out in the cold.

My biggest concern is how it will resolve the true diagonals close in.

You should never do things you can't do well especially when it doesn't matter if you do them or not

RandyT

[SirPoonga]

On one hand you have something that works very narrowly, with only one joystick model, with only one piece of software, with missing modes, and based on the lukewarm reception of it, definitions that do not perform optimally (no offense intended to those involved in the attempt).  And then there is the issue of another burden placed on the CPU to do  the translation.

To quote you

"Statements like these make me think the unwritten rule stating that one should have some real experience with something before "poo-poo"ing  it,  should actually be put in writing."

Have you tried analog+ mame?  Do you know what it can and can't do with the patterns for interpreting the 49way?

On the other hand, you plug in the GPWiz49 and it works as adverstised.  No fancy configuring.  It works the same with ALL software. No additional burdens on the CPU.

The software in your IC is doing the same thing as the software on the PC would do.   So it takes a couple extra cycles to process on the PC.  Unless the IC the PC has MUCH more resources.  The few IRQ requests that go through due to the interpretation from the PC is not enough to slow emulation down, even on a slow PC.  The advantage of software doing the work is you can configure/modify software to do exactly what you want more easily than hardware.


I'm not saying your product is bad.  I'm just mentioning to people they can do the same thing with software.  Yes, hardware is a better solution in general.  But you and I both know in this community there are people who will want to know all the facts and want to know where they can save money when possible.

Unless you can point me to something that you can honestly compare this to, I think it's safe to consider this a "new idea."

I'm saying the idea of having a 49way work on a pc is not a new idea.  Doin it in hardware is though.


Basically, if you don't want as much control over configuration and just want something to work  the way the majority of the people would want it to work your hardware solution is perfect.  If you want more control on how the 49way is recognized the software solution is better.   It comes down to the fact there are some situations hardware is better and some situations software is better.  That's all.  Don't read any more into it.

[paigeoliver]

Doing it in hardware isn't new either. I sold a cabinet with a USB 49-way almost a year ago. Although Randy's new encoder seems to have a lot more features than the existing SJC 49-way interface.

[Xiaou2]

 As stated above... not completely explaining the functions lead to misunderstandings.

 So what you are saying... is that the system will not ignor diagnols... but really use a "half-circle/half-circle"  type of sensing for the 2way for instance - with a small deadzone.

 As for the new style of 49ways...  I have a low opinion of them.    They are essentailly limited analog joysticks.   And for that - one wouldnt even need an encoder.

  The older Sinistar / Arch Rival  joys used an  X  shaped band to make it harder to reach the edges of the stick.   Like a gas pedal -vs- a brake. 

 The new joys make it hard to play sinistar... as you are able to move too fast - on accident.   The additional resistence of the older joys - make it easer to keep your speeds under much better control.   Staying slower while collecting the crystals.. yet able to dash off like a rocket with a hard push.

  So, if you want an analog joystick that feels like a bat handle joystick.. and has less sensativity than an analog - then fine.   

 But lets get real here.   

 First off, I have built a sinistar stick from an analog joystick.  I have felt and
playtested the differences between the center mounted spring that was in it... and then the new rubber x mod that I added to it to make it function properly.

 I also picked up the real sinistar stick for kicks.   Simular feel to the one I made.  However - mines a bit stiffer, which makes it even easier to control the ship.  This may also be due to the centering spider on the original being aged.

 And, Im not 'pooing'  your product.  Rather, Im simply stating that its not a perfect solution to the serious classic game player. .. and that it would  be more benificial to the typical gamer to have a 2-in-1 encoder rather than all those features that really arnt that usefull for the masses.    It also promotes the use of incorrect controls for games, thus making the game look to be poor or too hard.

[RandyT]

To quote you

"Statements like these make me think the unwritten rule stating that one should have some real experience with something before "poo-poo"ing  it,  should actually be put in writing."

Have you tried analog+ mame?  Do you know what it can and can't do with the patterns for interpreting the 49way?

No.  I did not need to.  I experimented briefly with the definitions shown for the modes and what I ended up using is quite different.  Support for the 49 way in Analog MAME is a hack.  It requires 4 times the amount of data to be sent to the host and in use appears to the encoder to be holding down/cycling many keys at once to do what it does.  It's a valiant attempt, but it's a controls bandwidth choker.  It also only works with that particular piece of software, as I stated.  When it's a standalone driver and it's running via the parallel port, feel free to make the "software" comparison.  At that point I might even agree.

On the other hand, you plug in the GPWiz49 and it works as adverstised.  No fancy configuring.  It works the same with ALL software. No additional burdens on the CPU.

The software in your IC is doing the same thing as the software on the PC would do.

But that's all it has to do.  There isn't enough space on this page to list the things the PC must deal with at any given moment in time.

  So it takes a couple extra cycles to process on the PC.  Unless the IC the PC has MUCH more resources.  The few IRQ requests that go through due to the interpretation from the PC is not enough to slow emulation down, even on a slow PC.

The controls bus has limited bandwidth.  Use more than necessary, you are asking for problems.  As far as PC resources go, any task it doesn't need to do, it shouldn't.  I know, this goes against the philosphy of those folks that have a million tasks running in the background, but it's still an "ideal" that one should strive for.

The advantage of software doing the work is you can configure/modify software to do exactly what you want more easily than hardware.

Here's a simple question:  Once you have something working as well as it can, given a specific set of circumstances and limitations based on them, what more do you need to change?  I'm asking because  if there's call for a 3 or 5 way stick, someone better let me know now

I'm not saying your product is bad.  I'm just mentioning to people they can do the same thing with software.  Yes, hardware is a better solution in general.  But you and I both know in this community there are people who will want to know all the facts and want to know where they can save money when possible.

Maybe not, but your comments seemed to be bordering on "thread poisoning".  I guess I should have posted the thread in the for sale forum to avoid the "you can do it cheaper by X" posts.  Just seemed a little unbecoming for a mod.

RandyT

[SirPoonga]

It's a valiant attempt, but it's a controls bandwidth choker.

Not really.  All pin signals aren't being sent at ones.  The amount of signals being sent is no different then what gets sent during a fighter with huge combos going on.

Here's a simple question:  Once you have something working as well as it can, given a specific set of circumstances and limitations based on them, what more do you need to change?  I'm asking because  if there's call for a 3 or 5 way stick, someone better let me know now

Simple answer, more control on how the 49way reacts/is interpreted.  Here's an example and comparison to analog+ mame.
http://www.urebelscum.speedhost.com/49waySticks.html
Go about half way down and look at the graphics.  I'm with paige on this one, knowing how you interpret the grid is a must know if someone wants to know how the 48 way is going to feel.  How do you handle the boundries?  How do you handle the dead spots?
What be cool is if youhas one more mode that was customixable so someone could put in a custom feel.

Like I said, there are situations where a software solution is better, there are situations where a hardware solution is better.

Maybe not, but your comments seemed to be bordering on "thread poisoning".  I guess I should have posted the thread in the for sale forum to avoid the "you can do it cheaper by X" posts.  Just seemed a little unbecoming for a mod.

you are the one interpeting it that way.  I said i am just providing info that there is a software solution.  That is all I am doing.  I am not saying anything bad about your product.  I am even saying buy your product because it is cool. From my point of view it sounds like you can't handle competition with remarks like that.

All I said was "But you and I both know in this community there are people who will want to know all the facts and want to know where they can save money when possible."  That's the ONLY time I mentioned something about "price".  You know this statement is true.  There are people here, that if they can do it for free, even though it takes alot of setup, will do it.  Look at arcadevga and such.  There are still people who will run dos with an older video card to save money.
I never said it was cheaper though.  Time is money.  Depending on how you look at it depends on what you think is cheap or not.  You obviously looked at it from a monetary point of view.  Yes, it would save them money.  But it is going to cost a bunch of time to get it set up.  Heck, right there I am making the arguement on WHY to get your product.

I know you've been accused of not reading peoples replies the way they wrote them before.  Please read more carefully what I wrote.  I think about what I want to type before I type it and word it in a way to get the responses I expect to get.  That's why I said I am just posting for informational purposes that there is a software solution.  I knew you'd interpet that post as a negative against your product when it actually isn't.


In response to Xiaou2.  A hardcore classic game is going to do one of two things, have dedicated controls or restrictor plates.  IF you don't have the space for dedicated controls and you think plates are ugly this is your next best solution.

[Flinkly]

man...and i thought you guys were BYOACers...

randy has come to us offering us a great new plug and play controller and all that i hear is how we don't need it.