Main > Everything Else
U.N. takes SOME steps, at least (formerly - where's the equivalent outrage)
fredster:
--- Quote ---But even given that, the abuse that occurred at Abu Gharib, and those continuing at Gitmo, SHOULD be plastered all over the U.S. news, and we all, as Americans, should be ashamed.
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MrC, war is hell. There are lots of young and stupid people everywhere. Put 300,000 people in one place and you can bet somebody is going to do something stupid. Work at a factory or large manufacturing facility and you'll see things like than in a lot smaller population. People are people, not robots.
Your position is that the problem is systemic. I seem to get the impression it's pervasive in the Military and in the Governement.
Are we a nation of torture? I don't see these people being branded, mangled, and beheaded. I see them being walked around by guards. This is a NEW war that can't be played by PC systems designed for shoplifters.
These people are trying to kill us. They aren't trying to change our ideas, they aren't trying to protest, they are trying to kill us. They don't care who they kill or how. They are fanatics of the highest order. The standard "Good Cop / Bad Cop" won't work on them, they are going to fight to the death, and apparently they don't care which one.
If they took out your family, you might think differently. The administation is making decisions. Any decision made by authority figures is second guessed by everybody in every peanut gallery in the world. I was a supervisor in a UAW plant, and I couldn't believe the reaction of people over the simplist things. When you are in a position of authority, there is no quarter.
Maybe one day you will have some responsiblity for other people and over other people and you can understand.
Keep in mind that what you call "failure" Lots and Lots of other people call a wild Success. Mistakes were made, and I'm defending Rumsfeld, but I wouldn't want to be in his shoes for any amount of time good news or bad.
--- Quote ---As for this particular fiasco invalidating any "appeal" to the U.N....I guess you could say the same about the U.S. then, huh? We've got more than a few 'atrocities' under our belt too.
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This "hate America first" attitude isn't serving any of us. We have to band together behind the government and discuss the issues. Not sit outside the capital building with a sign that says "The world is ending - I told you so".
Every Country on every inch of this planet has "atrocities". Not one race is immune from some type of atrocity. The good thing about America is that we try to correct them. Just because the USA has had problems in it's past doens't invalidate the goal we are trying to achieve, whether you see that in your view or not.
It certainly doesn't discredit us that we have. The Bush administration was cleaning up a problem before we had to go to a world war. The Congress of the United Stated backed him by law. The people of the United States backed their president.
The people of Iran are building a fresh country, and we have given them the best tools and the best support that any nation on the face of the earth could. Removing Saddam was not a mistake, not trusting or utilizing the United Nations was not a mistake, and trying to protect the US from terrorists is not a mistake.
Crazy Cooter:
So are you mad about the lack of coverage, the incidents themselves, the possible coverup, or that the US still looks bad?
...that should get Drew going...
danny_galaga:
--- Quote from: SeaMonkey on February 19, 2005, 06:19:02 pm ---The real question is, do you want our dollar to collaps or not?
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yes, euros look prettier
--- Quote ---Who's side are you on?
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gods
--- Quote ---Right or wrong, if oil goes to basketed currency, our dollar will be backed by nothing other than Greenspan's signature.
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it's not now?
--- Quote ---Even with the war, we have only put off the inevitable. Peak oil production will be here and gone in 40 years, at which point, if the dollar is still backed by oil, inflation will bust our economy.
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yep, so why delay the inevitable?
fredster:
I'm not for certain that the devaluation of the dollar is a bad thing.
It does some good for the economy. It makes our goods cheaper overseas. We sell more. It also affects the way we pay off the National debt in benifical ways I have heard on NPR. The downside is it reduces our ability to borrow from foreign exchanges.
We are still on the gold standard aren't we? Oil isn't a standard for oil anywhere that I know of.
What are the two top producers of oil in the world? First is Saudi Arabia, and second is the United States. Yes, the United States out produces Iraq, by 2X. We can out produce the Saudis at peak intervals.
But, I'm not an economist either. There are lots of factors, not just one factor. If the middle east suddenly stoped producing oil, we wouldn't die. We have lots of Oil on this side of the world, untapped, we can tap into.
SeaMonkey:
No, we left the gold standard in 1965.
There is NOTHING other than OPEC's agreement to only sell oil for dollars, giving our greenback any value at all.
Fractional banking, while still referred to by the FED, (not a branch of the government by the way, the Federal Reserve Bank is owned by its member banks.) is not how we have this much money printed.
Oil can be bought from OPEC only if you have dollars.
Non-oil producing countries, such as most underdeveloped countries and Japan, first have to sell their goods to earn dollars with which they can purchase oil.
If they cannot earn enough dollars, then they have to borrow dollars from the Wold Bank, which have to be paid back, with interest, in DOLLARS. (heh)
This creates the huge demand for dollars outside the U.S.
However, the U.S. only has to print dollar bills in exchange for goods. Even for its own oil imports, the U.S. can print dollar bills without exporting or selling its goods.
For instance, in 2003 the current U.S. account deficit and external debt has been running at more than $500 billion. Put in simple terms, the U.S. will receive $500 billion more in goods and services from other countries than it will provide them, by sheer virtue of the dollar being backed by Saudi Oil.
Why didn't we go after the Saudi's after 911?
We can't! They are the key to our monetary system!
Why did we go after Iraq after 911?
Oil for food rip offs were pulling our economy down, and Iraq was not part of OPEC. France, Germany, and Russia were reaping huge dividends by ripping off the starving folks in Iraq.