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U.N. takes SOME steps, at least (formerly - where's the equivalent outrage)
DrewKaree:
--- Quote from: JCL on March 20, 2005, 04:01:10 am ---
This stuff is in the news. As are a million other things. But we (the US) don't control and aren't responsible for the UN. Bringing up the UN in this context is just saying "We're not so bad, look at what they did!"
It's a <auto-censored> argument that doesn't work for six year olds and certainly shouldn't work for nations.
--- End quote ---
This stuff IS in the news? BS. The story I brought up has gone on for years right under Annan's nose. I can count on one hand the amount of stories I've been able to find about this, and if that's your idea of "coverage", you've got some wacky standards
You say the argument shouldn't work for nations, yet the mass murders committed by Sadaam not only were treated with that same six year old's argument, but were treated comparitively almost as if they never happened. Whatever exposure they DID recieve was dropped like a hot potato once there was a way to impugn the military as a whole for the actions of a few rogue members.
Everything else you've offered is a scattergun approach to replying to a rather direct and pointed response aimed at addressing just a few of your initial points, so while I was going to respond to many of them, it seems foolish to give you pointed responsed that will only engender further shotgun blasts of craplets.
The only point you bring up that should be addressed is: "How's that premise working for Israel?"
Thus far, it seems to be working for them, as they haven't been turned into a grease spot in the desert. Thinking Israel is the problem ignores the efforts to wipe them off the face of the earth thus far, and simply wishes to pin the hopes of peace on a pie-in-the-sky plan of "talks".
JCL:
--- Quote from: DrewKaree on March 20, 2005, 08:42:27 am ---
This stuff IS in the news?
--- End quote ---
mr.Curmudgeon:
--- Quote from: JCL on March 20, 2005, 09:48:57 am ---Is isn't in the news? You quoted the so called MSM about the story! Google news has many hundreds of stories about this situation from many dozens of media outlets.
--- End quote ---
JCL,
Drew's interest in this case seems to me to be disingenuous at best. I really get the sense that his call for "equivalent outrage" derives more from his desire to see the U.N. shamed - since that seems to be the current going game on the right - than from his desire to actually see justice done in this case.
Now I'm not saying he doesn't really care about this victims, just that he probably cares more about how negatively this reflects on the U.N., which is apparent to me by how he continually extrapolates this behavior and uses it to paint the entire organization as corrupt because of it. Contrast that with how he probably still clings to the theory of "a few bad apples" when it comes to Abu Gharib and you see how transparent his "outrage" really is.
His reasoning that this story should be of equal importance domestically in the U.S. with the Abu Gharib story, belies the fact that it neither involves the U.S. nor did it occur under it's auspices. Which WAS the case with the Iraqi Prison deaths, rapes, beatings and tortures. Is this story newsworthy? YES! Is it somehow *more* newsworthy than the Abu Gharib/Gitmo tortures? NO. Not if you really care about the tenants of our freedoms and the very spirit of our nation.
It's always easier to blame others for their wrongful deeds than to except responsibility for our own.
mrC
fredster:
MrC,
This Abu Gharib situation proves nothing. Google search about prisioner abuse in the good o'le USA on Americans. The environment itself takes good people and turns them into idiots here without any military training.
It's not systemic. I can tell you were never in the Military. It is obvious that all these people on the "systemic" side NEVER served. You don't know the rules and the conduct. What we have here is a severe breakdown of dicipline, that's all. It happens when there are people involved in anything.
The military definiation of dicipline is "to do the right thing based on the rules of conduct even when no one directs you to do so".
That didn't happen with these idiots at this prison. People at Gitmo are fighting going back to their home country now because they are afraid they will be "tortured". They want to stay. That's funny, I thought they were being "tortured". http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=7829901&src=rss/topNews
The UN matter is at the crux of the Saddam regieme change. If the UN was being paid, and paid big, then should they be trusted to decide if it's right or wrong to do anything? The orgainzation had deep problems. If this was the US adminstation and this type of money was being passed, what would we say then?
--- Quote ---His reasoning that this story should be of equal importance domestically in the U.S. with the Abu Gharib story, belies the fact that it neither involves the U.S. nor did it occur under it's auspices. Which WAS the case with the Iraqi Prison deaths, rapes, beatings and tortures. Is this story newsworthy? YES! Is it somehow *more* newsworthy than the Abu Gharib/Gitmo tortures? NO. Not if you really care about the tenants of our freedoms and the very spirit of our nation.
--- End quote ---
Did you note that the source of these investigations is the US govenment itself? They are the ones uncovering and investigating and fixing these problems. You know what that means? The system works.
You can't hold people to the impossible standard of perfection. They are doing as perfect a job as humans can do in this undertaking. In every war we have serious mistakes that coulda shoulda been avoided if people were machines, but they are not. They are people and they make mistakes.
This has been one of the cleanest operations in US/World history. The UN has blood on it's hands in it's inaction. The US has reshaped the Middle east and has probably stopped the flow of money and support for terrorists for a generation. It has freed more people and given hope to people who had no hope. Is that important? YES, if you really care about the tenants of our freedoms and the very spirit of our nation