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New Product: GP-Wiz - 32-input Fast USB Controls Interface
Tiger-Heli:
--- Quote from: RandyT on February 08, 2005, 02:16:07 pm ---They are small enough to put inside of a classic gaming controller to convert it to USB
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Well, it's cheaper to buy one already converted from http://www.sealiecomputing.com/retrozone/ , but the GP-Eco is undoubtedly a higher quality encoder, and the other arquments are valid.
--- Quote ---Are you listening to yourself, Howard? I think you just said, paraphrased, that "games don't use game controllers" :D
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Well, Howard does have somewhat of a point here. A lot of the PC simulations that I use (not emulation or arcade related), use keyboard control only, but there's also a caveat - You can use Joy2Key to enable a gamepad (or GP-Eco) with keyboard based software much more easily than you can find software to enable a keyboard to work as a joystick (although there was a thread about that as well - dpadpro if memory serves - someone wanted it for EA virtual tennis).
--- Quote ---I did a ton of research and could find only one that was a problem...and that one wouldn't even let you change key assignments.
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Just a hunch, but I'm guessing you mean Stella, which I haven't used, but Z26 is an altenative, and CPViewer's author has a version of it which does allow you to change key assignments. (but I think you'd need Joy2Key for 2 player usage, but maybe not if you used two GP-Eco's).
--- Quote ---Your "it can't even handle 2 players" statement couldn't be more wrong. It can handle as many players as there are inputs to connect joysticks to.
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Actually - virtually unlimited b/c you can use multiple GP-Eco's. I think there's a limit of 128 GP Ecos' per port (or maybe total) but that will be a busy arcade machine.
--- Quote ---I don't know how many people have 5 sub-panels, but if they do, some "fancy dancin' " is going to be in order regardless of the solution chosen.
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I'm not sure I agree with this statement. See my example above - if MAME is used and all panels use their own GP-Eco, I see very little "Fancy dancin'", other than I have to tell MAME that Coin1 is J1Button10, Coin2 is J2Button10, etc. Am I not considering something???
--- Quote ---Howard, you used exactly the same "HC Brand" of logic when I introduced the KeyWiz (the other "product without a need" according to your opinion.)
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Yep, I remember that.
--- Quote ---No analog inputs?
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Why? for the same reason there are no analog inputs on a KeyWiz or Ipac. It's not designed for that purpose. A 4 or 8 or even a 49 way joystick and buttons (or dancepad, or whatever) use digital inputs, just like a game pad does.
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True, but MAME games like afterbuner need it, as will Nintendo 64 or Playstation or Dreamcast (I think) emulation. I wouldn't bash the GP-Eco for not including it, though. It won't support a spinner or trackball either, but that's not it's function.
--- Quote ---And yes, I am considering a version for 49-way sticks.
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Cool!!!
--- Quote ---"What the heck is Howard on about and who is this statement directed at?" :D
But just for fun, try $2000 for dev tools and there are no "USB kits." You actually have to read books and work hard and stuff :)
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I wondered and asked the same thing myself. The first mention of USB Kit is Howard's post above???
NoOne=NBA=:
--- Quote ---But since then, I have sold at least as many KeyWiz's as Oscar has sold spinners, to very satisfied customers, I am proud to add.
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I'm not one....yet.
The fact that you are finally offering a USB solution may change that though.
I've got a few cabs in the planning stage, and may try to work a few of these into the mix on them.
tetsujin:
--- Quote from: RandyT on February 08, 2005, 02:16:07 pm ---
--- Quote from: Howard_Casto on February 08, 2005, 10:16:17 am ---Secondly, you are billing it as a modular solution. How exactly? It has 32 inputs, but only two axis... so unless you want to use some of the buttons as 2 player axis (which imho is very hacky and you shouldn't have to do), it can't even handle 2 players, despite the enormous amount of button inputs.
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What is of the utmost importance is that the buttons perform equally to the Axes, and in the case of the GP-Wiz, great care was taken to ensure this. To be quite honest, I would have made ALL the inputs buttons, were it possible to do so and still have cross-platform compatibility using the HID spec.
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You've said that you want to keep technical details to yourself, and given the amount of work that's apparently gone into this I totally respect that: but if you could elaborate a little on that or suggest resources to learn more about the performance issues of buttons vs. axes, I'd be very grateful. I don't want to be pushy, but as someone who's starting out in USB development this is fascinating stuff. If not, then I won't bug you for more details.
--- Quote ---There are a number of very useful applications for the GP-Wiz, not the least of which, and has been pointed out several times, supplemental controls for upgrading the capabilities of a current keyboard encoder installation.
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Not to mention freaks like me who want USB gamepad controls just as a matter of principle. :)
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--- Quote from: Howard_Casto on February 08, 2005, 10:22:10 am ---Pointing out that this product is built from a usb kit is just lame. It doesn't matter.... the tools to properly program the eproms cost about 200 bucks (and I'm being conservative) so unless you are running a business and already have the tools, this route is unaccessable to the average consumer.
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"What the heck is Howard on about and who is this statement directed at?" :D
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Me, maybe?
I didn't really talk about any kind of "USB Kit" but I said that building a USB Gamepad was a pretty basic USB microcontroller project. I have a tendency to exaggerate the ease with which my projects come to fruition, especially when the project is an exciting one for me. But for those who are interested in developing USB devices as a hobby project, you can get a good-quality PIC programmer for around $35 (mine was around $80 when I added the power supply, a ZIF socket, and boxed it), a free assembler or compiler, and build a gamepad circuit for around $15-$20. As a hobbyist, for years I thought USB was inaccessible. I saw the (easy-to-interface) legacy ports going away and the new USB ports as this hopelessly complicated thing that a hobby circuit could never hope to interface with. Maybe that really was the case in 1998 or something, I don't know. But with programmable USB microcontrollers these days, home-brew USB devices are neither terribly expensive or prohibitively difficult. Having that capability is exciting.
Of course, it's not a trivial amount of work, either, especially (as I'm learning) if you want a product with high-end capabilities to truly be compatible with the different OSes. I didn't mean to belittle the work that goes into a real production-quality device, either. :)
RandyT:
--- Quote from: Tiger-Heli on February 08, 2005, 03:06:08 pm ---Well, it's cheaper to buy one already converted from http://www.sealiecomputing.com/retrozone/ , but the GP-Eco is undoubtedly a higher quality encoder, and the other arquments are valid.
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Cool link. But I think making a box to support several of them would be a more efficient use for the GP-Wiz. That was thrown out as something you could do iif you wanted to, but it would have to be one of the larger retro controls like the NES arcade stick (which I already used an Eco with for a friend)
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--- Quote ---Are you listening to yourself, Howard? I think you just said, paraphrased, that "games don't use game controllers" :D
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Well, Howard does have somewhat of a point here. A lot of the PC simulations that I use (not emulation or arcade related), use keyboard control only, but there's also a caveat - You can use Joy2Key to enable a gamepad (or GP-Eco) with keyboard based software much more easily than you can find software to enable a keyboard to work as a joystick (although there was a thread about that as well - dpadpro if memory serves - someone wanted it for EA virtual tennis).
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That's a good point. I will take a look at the Joy2Key software to see how well it performs. It could be a nifty way to get compatibility with the occasional non-arcade/console title where it might be an issue.
--- Quote ---I don't know how many people have 5 sub-panels, but if they do, some "fancy dancin' " is going to be in order regardless of the solution chosen.
--- Quote ---I'm not sure I agree with this statement. See my example above - if MAME is used and all panels use their own GP-Eco, I see very little "Fancy dancin'", other than I have to tell MAME that Coin1 is J1Button10, Coin2 is J2Button10, etc. Am I not considering something???
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Heh. I only meant that if you have 5 sub-panels, there's a lot of work involved figuring all that out regardless of the interface used. But once you have it set the way you want it, no problems.
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Why? for the same reason there are no analog inputs on a KeyWiz or Ipac. It's not designed for that purpose. A 4 or 8 or even a 49 way joystick and buttons (or dancepad, or whatever) use digital inputs, just like a game pad does.
--- Quote ---True, but MAME games like afterbuner need it, as will Nintendo 64 or Playstation or Dreamcast (I think) emulation. I wouldn't bash the GP-Eco for not including it, though. It won't support a spinner or trackball either, but that's not it's function.
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Understandable, but these will most likely still work with digital controls. And until someone starts selling an arcade quality analog stick for a price comparable to the digital ones the majority of us use now, a conventional PC stick with it's own interface might be the best choice.
RandyT
Bloinkxp:
I am just waiting for the site to go up!
Thanks RandyT.
-David
Proud Owner of a Keywiz STD.