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Author Topic: DIY Skeeball  (Read 204929 times)

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str1der

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Re: DIY Skeeball
« Reply #40 on: January 04, 2005, 11:17:42 pm »
Brad, Didn't know if you saw this on Ebay since the guy spelt it Ski-Ball. Thought you might be interested in it for the rings.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3945&item=6144140102&rd=1

Ixliam

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Re: DIY Skeeball
« Reply #41 on: January 04, 2005, 11:49:42 pm »
Thanks!  I dropped him a line about what shipping it might run.

Brad

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Re: DIY Skeeball
« Reply #42 on: January 05, 2005, 07:48:16 am »
The ball would definitely go into the gutter area .... no free retries  ;D

Check out the pic below and you can see the gutter area.   

Actually all balls eventually hit the same spot in the gutter, except most balls first go through a target chute then fall vertically behind the target area into the same gutter location.   

When a ball enters the gutter area, then it will roll to the right and go back to the ball return area.   When it reaches the right handed tube area (where the ball goes back where it started from) then the ball first rolls under a mounted microswitch metal arm which is used to keep track of how many balls have been played so far.    You probably already know this though......

I attached a second picture showing you the vertical drop and the gutter area without the target board on the machine.   

PS:  Notice my custom made sound dampening material (ie: old padded seat cover) which I decided to use to lower the noise of the balls slamming into the bottom of the gutter area after falling through the vertical drop.   Under this yellow seat cover is plastic so you can imagine the noise a wooden ball had when slamming into black plastic after every ball.   I thought my wife was going to shoot me ......  :o   Anyway, it works quite well.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2005, 07:55:50 am by unclet »

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Re: DIY Skeeball
« Reply #43 on: January 05, 2005, 01:30:39 pm »
That helps, some reason my brain went foggy on me. Can you take a picture of where the gutter ramp goes into the ball return ? Maybe position the camera facing toward the front of the skeeball ramp shooting a closeup of the ball return ?

Thanks - Brad

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Re: DIY Skeeball
« Reply #44 on: January 05, 2005, 02:07:00 pm »
I really like RandyT's display he came up with. Will be nice to see in the future where this all leads. I'm almost torn to go that route and put a monitor in there. On your display Randy, how customizable are the positions of the ball # and score ?. I wonder if you could just have that display through a marque in place where the numbers are. Its a thought at least.

Currently, position and size are fixed.  I'll take a look at how much of a pain it will be to make size and position of the elements configurable.  Ideally, a skinning app would be the ticket here, but for now, a little "hit and miss" with a config file would be ok as well (hmm..just had another thought about this one....but I'll see how it works before I talk about it too much ;) )

In any case, Brad, send me your address.  Due to the unique nature of the project and your fervent attention to  it, I'm willing to donate a KeyWiz Eco2 to the cause.


uncleT:  Sorry if this has been asked/answered already, but could you tell me the height and thickness of the material used for the  scoring rings?  I'm trying to find some suitable material that won't break the bank.  Thanks again for all the info!

RandyT


unclet

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Re: DIY Skeeball
« Reply #45 on: January 05, 2005, 05:29:44 pm »
RandyT:
The chutes are made from GoodYear especially for SkeeBall Inc.  They are rubber with a "white-wall" outer covering (just like the white-wall on a tire).  The height of the chutes (white rubber) are 4 inches.   The thickness of the chutes are 1/4"

Ixliam:
The picture here shows the ball return.   The ball drops down vertically and lands on my custom yellow spongy stuff which is attached to a black plastic curve.   You can see the curvature of this black plastic in the picture.   After the ball hits the yellow spongy stuff then the ball slowly rolls to the right (since this is at a slight incline) and then enters the hole seen in the picture.   This hole takes the ball back to it's starting location in the right side ball return "tube" (for a lack of a better word).   Right after entering the "hole" on the right side of the ball return tube, the ball triggers a microswitch with a metal arm.  This is the switch which keeps count on how many balls were thrown.

This is the best picture I can get with dismantling some more stuff.   There really is nothing else to describe ..... just that the ball hits the yellow stuff and rolls on a slight incline to the right until it goes into the ball return tube hole where it activates a microswitch.

Let me know if this is what you wanted....

PS:  In this picture you can also see the red ball "stoppers" which are in place to slow the ball down so the ball does not roll down and "over" the chute and come out.  The ball hits the red stopper spongy stuff and slows it down a bit so the ball goes into the hole rather than coming out of the chutes.   Please note I added my own custom yellow ball stopper in the center, but the "red" ones came with the machine.  Also, there should be 3 "red" ones, but I am missing one on the lower chute .....  it should be on the opposite side of the "red" stopper which does exist ....
« Last Edit: January 05, 2005, 05:55:25 pm by unclet »

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Re: DIY Skeeball
« Reply #46 on: January 05, 2005, 05:49:04 pm »
McMaster-Carr/Grainger sells rubber sheets (not for the bedroom), but the way they describe it is by resistance/hardness. They do have some that is white, but I was reluctant to order any without being able to get my hands on it to see if it is the right substance. That might be an option to look at other than calling around and seeing if you can find some old skeeball rings.

Brad

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Re: DIY Skeeball
« Reply #47 on: January 05, 2005, 05:52:26 pm »
Seems like we posted at the same time ..... see my reply above ...

Also.... what are you planning on using for the rubber bumpers?  Maybe the rubber which separates carpet from tile will work for you. ... do you know what I mean?    It is a strip of rubber (I forget the offical name) which is placed where carpet meets tile.   I believe carpet distributors carry this stuff (not carpet sellers).   I also believe a track is available which is mounted so the rubber strips can be attached to the track to hold it in place.   The rubber strips come in different shapes and sizes.   

Maybe someone else can help out with the official name of this stuff, although if you call a carpet distributor and you my lame description, they will know exactly what you are talking about.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2005, 06:03:38 pm by unclet »

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Re: DIY Skeeball
« Reply #48 on: January 05, 2005, 10:46:00 pm »
I'll dig around and find something for the bumpers. I thought about using a cut-down rubber ball like kids use for playing jacks.

I reinforced the support to put the two sections together with my favorite material, STEEL. The tubing is bolted to the frame with 5/16" bolts, so it isn't going anywhere. The tubes slide in each other, then when I pick up some more bolts (forgot to buy enough) the panels on the scoreboard and ramp will bolt together as well. The panel that pulled lose from the ramp is now secured with large 3" wood screws.





« Last Edit: August 17, 2007, 02:35:08 pm by saint »

Ixliam

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Re: DIY Skeeball
« Reply #49 on: January 05, 2005, 10:50:23 pm »
One thing I ended up having to recut another panel for the scoreboard section on the front. I played around with the original looking at getting a gutter working, then realized I did it wrong to begin with and cut off too much. I was able to use a nice piece off the miscut target panel, so it wasn't a total waste.

Anyone have a line on trip-wire switches ? I'll ask in the FS section as well, as Happs is a bit expensive.

Brad

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Re: DIY Skeeball
« Reply #50 on: January 06, 2005, 12:02:51 pm »
I was wondering what you were going to use for the long rubber bumpers which are to be mounted on the sides of the rolling panel ..... not the little round bumper things to slow the balls down in the chutes...... 

Any thought as to what material you would use for these?

Ixliam

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Re: DIY Skeeball
« Reply #51 on: January 06, 2005, 12:59:00 pm »
I want to find rubber for that actually. I haven't dug around in the industrial catalogs yet or scrounged to see if I can find anything that would work for that.

I did order trip-wire switches today from Happs to wire the panel. I'm going to go simple at first, since if I went optical I would have to create a nice little circuit for each ball, and I really don't feel like doing that :)

Brad

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Re: DIY Skeeball
« Reply #52 on: January 06, 2005, 02:10:55 pm »
awesome progress so far.  You HAVE to post a video of this thing in action.

Art
Well, that's where we go a-ridin' into town, a whampin' and whompin' every livin' thing that moves within an inch of its life. Except the women folks, of course.

unclet

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Re: DIY Skeeball
« Reply #53 on: January 06, 2005, 02:47:39 pm »
Then go ahead and call a carpet distributor and ask what the rubber striping (which separates carpet and tile) is called.   I believe there are many different shapes to this stuff and there is also a track which the rubber can slide onto.   Basically, you can attach the track to the side of the SkeeBall rolling lane and then simply slide the rubber striping onto the track..... no visible screws either.

I tried calling a carpet distributor this morning since it is buggin the hell out of me that I can not remember the name of this stuff, but I was put on hold way to long .....had to get back to work.


Ixliam

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Re: DIY Skeeball
« Reply #54 on: January 06, 2005, 10:02:47 pm »
I played my first real game of skeeball on this tonight.  First off, it played really well, but I don't care for the 100 rings up there. Just not quite my style, I prefer the earlier configuration. On the ball chute, because my initial incline into it is higher than it needs to be, I ended up cutting a mousehole in the target. However, I did get the balls to return after being thrown, so this weekend I will take off the right side and drop that section down, then rebuilt parts of the ball returning stuff on the inside. It was pretty much trial and error to get that to work right, and there is one 'dead spot' that I might need to sand to give it a slope since the ball caught on it. I should have my wooden balls in tomorrow, so that will give me a true test. I will end up recutting another target (no biggie) without the 100 rings. Padding wise on it, it needs some heavier padding or 1/4" cork surfacing. The thin layer of cork that I plan on using on the ramp doesn't cut it for the target, as the ball might as well be hitting bare wood.

One thing about this is that it might cost me a bit more on some things than someone who might build one after me, since I'm figuring out all the issues as I go along. Well, here are the photos with some of the ball being airborne.



I dragged my wife away from our MUD long enough to play some.


Foul Ball!!


If I drop the part where the ball goes into the return, I wouldn't have to cut this "mousehole".


Cheap pathway on left side. Ball comes out of hole on right, then down to left side.


Ball falls through holes and then hits angled wood at end, dropping through hole to picture above.



Closeup of hole from the target tube.










Brad
« Last Edit: August 17, 2007, 02:35:41 pm by saint »

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Re: DIY Skeeball
« Reply #55 on: January 07, 2005, 12:32:17 pm »
just a thought...instead of recutting your target, maybe cut a couple circles to plug the 100s from underneath.  Then if you change your mind in the future, you can just drop out the plugs.

Ixliam

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Re: DIY Skeeball
« Reply #56 on: January 07, 2005, 01:22:42 pm »
Well, I was pretty tired when I posted that message, and I do have something to block those holes with (they are blocked now. Perhaps I can overlay something to cover up my "mousehole" that I cut out (which is the main reason I wanted to recut another one. I do have the pieces I cut, so maybe some woodglue, a screwed in backing, and elbow grease will fix it. I plan on recovering the board with something else anyway as that surfacing doesn't cushion impact as well as it should. It will work well on the ramp, just not on the target.

Brad

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Re: DIY Skeeball
« Reply #57 on: January 07, 2005, 09:38:17 pm »
I ended up blocking the 100 rings off and patching back the piece I removed when I cut the "mousehole" last night. I took the side off the ball return/feed and moved the entire track down, about 2". What I did end up doing is instead of using a board as a track, I used 1x2's on each side, which left a nice open section in the middle where the ball stop lever could fit. I had to rework it as well. Without having that board there I instantly gained 3/4" as well.

I also got in my 3" wood balls from Van Dykes today. VERY VERY NICE I must say. 10 of them for $34.99, not bad when you consider skeeballs are being sold for about $7-10 on e-bay.  They are natural color, so a good dark stain will give them a nice skeeball appearance.

I'll post pictures later tonight..

Brad

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Re: DIY Skeeball
« Reply #58 on: January 08, 2005, 09:08:27 am »
Here are the pics of todays work. I now have a working ball return make from black plastic (same strength/thickness as the white score rings I have).  I used a heat gun and formed it to shape, so that make it very easy to use and much better than using wood. It is rather loud when the wood balls hit it, however.
















Brad
« Last Edit: August 17, 2007, 02:36:36 pm by saint »

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Re: DIY Skeeball
« Reply #59 on: January 08, 2005, 12:48:49 pm »
If you fill in the space behind the black plastic with expanding foam, or some other insulator, it might reduce the volume of the ball hitting it.

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Re: DIY Skeeball
« Reply #60 on: January 08, 2005, 06:34:45 pm »
Interesting idea with the foam. We did have our first casulty of the day. While playing before I got ready to paint it, one of the wood balls hit the plastic 20 ring and I heard a lound "whack" where the plastic ring broke. Nice clean break, but this plastic held in that type of stress (a round circle) isn't good for the rings. I am bidding on rings on e-bay, so hopefully I will get those. I did see some pics online of Chuck-E-Cheese machines with black rings and white lettering, which I thought were pretty neat looking. If I fail to get those rings, then I may go looking as some of the rubber sections that Grainger/McMaster-Carr sell. Only white they have is for FDA approved use, and of course is much higher. Black however, is about 1/2 the price. My rings are only 1/8" thick, but 1/4" barrel plastic would work better. At one time I worked for a playground company that manufactured the huge plastic playground sets for schools/restaurants, and that was pretty much what that plastic was. Just this type is under too much stress being bent and then hit with high speed wooden balls. Most of the places where my rivets/L-brackets are have cracks as well.  I'm sure there are other materials well suited to this, but 1/8" plastic isn't it :)

Brad

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Re: DIY Skeeball
« Reply #61 on: January 09, 2005, 01:13:46 am »
Would small sections of different sized white PVC pipe work for your rings, or would it be too brittle?

I've been following your thread and am impressed with your Skee Ball Machine. Keep up the good work!

Pyro

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Re: DIY Skeeball
« Reply #62 on: January 09, 2005, 08:08:32 am »
Pyro: It would work ok for the smaller rings, but when you get into the larger rings you would need a pipe with like a 3' diameter. Unless you had a source for scrap pipe of that size, the cost of buying a 8' section of pipe just to cut 4" off of it would be outrageous. The other problem is that those pipes would have to match the exact OD of the score rings, and it might be hard finding the right sizes if you are wanting to stick with the same diameter as the original ones.

After getting a good look at the ring, I remembered that ring (20) I just curved without using the heat gun since it was so flexible. That was likely the problem since it stressed that area pretty severe. Had I used the heat gun to help it mold to that shape, it might have been fine.

Brad


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Re: DIY Skeeball
« Reply #63 on: January 09, 2005, 08:32:01 am »
Just wanted to make a comment about a possible concern when using  hard materials for rings.

Over time, that harder  plastic will probably start taking little bites out of the wooden balls  Eventually , this could lead to premature wear of the rolling and target surfaces, especially with something softer like cork material.  It could also cause  ball return problems and general debris related issues from the pieces.

It seems like something softer than the wooden balls would be the best solution..  Even if it's something like vinyl "base molding" (maybe doubled for extra rigidity)

RandyT

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Re: DIY Skeeball
« Reply #64 on: January 09, 2005, 10:04:36 am »
RandyT: Could be that it might do that in the long run. It might be ok if you used the plastic balls, but it might do some damage to the wood ones.

Hopefully I will end up snagging some rubber rings for mine and that won't be an issue anymore.

Brad

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Re: DIY Skeeball
« Reply #65 on: January 09, 2005, 11:57:13 am »
Here's a link to some [somewhat expensive] white rubber you might want to consider:

http://www.mcmaster.com/nav/enter.asp?pagenum=3275

Item #86795K77 is probably what you want.

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Re: DIY Skeeball
« Reply #66 on: January 09, 2005, 12:24:03 pm »
Here's a link to some [somewhat expensive] white rubber you might want to consider:

http://www.mcmaster.com/nav/enter.asp?pagenum=3275

Item #86795K77 is probably what you want.  36x4x1/4" strips.  They're about the same hardness as a car tire.  At $6.60 per foot it might be more than you wanted to spend but would probably be the next best thing to the real rings, and probably cheaper than brand new rings.

I have a chunk of that material on the floor next to me (left over from a different project).  Nice stuff, but by time you did all the rings you needed you'd be into it for close to $200 and you'd still need to piece it for the larger ones or cut lengthwise from a much larger sheet (even more money)

Like Brad said above, the black is cheaper and might be a better way to go , if you don't mind the black rings.

RandyT

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Re: DIY Skeeball
« Reply #67 on: January 09, 2005, 07:33:11 pm »
With the plastic rings, it looks like the problem was with me not using a heat gun to form it, so it was overstressed big time. I will say if you are going to go with plastic rings, go with plastic balls from Happs. They are the same price right now as the wooden ones, and when I weighed them the weight is the same.

Here are the pics of the day...


Yellow plastic cover with clear ball cutout.


I had to trim some on the inside of the wood to get the overhang of the plexi to fit flush down onto the wood, so it didn't have a hump right where the 9th ball window is.


Front cover. The sides will be done either with a custom stainless piece or if possible, original covers.


End of ramp plastic cover.

Brad
« Last Edit: August 17, 2007, 02:37:46 pm by saint »

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Re: DIY Skeeball
« Reply #68 on: January 09, 2005, 07:36:27 pm »

The shelf for the monitor/marque is now in place, along with a back cover. You can see the broken ring here.


Back cover, from the back,


Overall view of ramp. I will be covering this with another thin cork layer and painting the cork.

Brad
« Last Edit: August 17, 2007, 02:38:32 pm by saint »

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Re: DIY Skeeball
« Reply #69 on: January 09, 2005, 09:10:56 pm »
Ring problem solved... I won me a set.



Brad

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Re: DIY Skeeball
« Reply #70 on: January 09, 2005, 10:01:40 pm »
Quote
Ring problem solved... I won me a set.

Do you know the size of those rings? I hope they fit, because in that pic they look huge.


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Re: DIY Skeeball
« Reply #71 on: January 09, 2005, 10:23:27 pm »
Its just the picture... the riings are fine.

brad

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Re: DIY Skeeball
« Reply #72 on: January 09, 2005, 10:27:21 pm »
Sorry if this was already posted by me. New to this type of forum. Congratulations on your machine it looks great. I have an original 13 foot manual machine which was converted to electronic back in the 80's. My machine is playable but needs some electronic work. The Amusement Park (Knoebel

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Re: DIY Skeeball
« Reply #73 on: January 09, 2005, 10:38:13 pm »
I'm still working on my circuits, but if you want something that just drops in there is a guy on e-bay who sells some type of control system for $100. I don't know anything about it other than it is there and according to him they designed these for Chuck-E-Cheese.

My circuits are still under construction and will likely be PC driven so that I can customize the sounds. Keep in mine that from all we know, a full blown DIY skeeball hasn't been done before, so this is kinda a trial and error project. My ball release is powered by bungee cord, BTW to provide the back tension. It doesn' have alot, as I didn't want too much pull on the lever, but enough to keep the balls from rolling down.

Do a search for Skeeball or read through all the posts here as there is a locked thread where alot of these things are discussed. The skeeball circuit is nothing more than a counter. If you wanted to wing it, look for 7-segment LCD counters. Use a darlington IC to switch the 14v coming from your lamps to power the score/ball counts. I'm pretty much going to do that with mine in the end and write a custom program to handle running the sound effects/display. That is of course vapor ware at this point. RandyT has a beta program he has written, but it won't work for what you are looking for.

Brad

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Re: DIY Skeeball
« Reply #74 on: January 09, 2005, 11:18:08 pm »
Either you got some of my pictures that I posted from my machine or somebody has the same electronics as mine. The display board and main boards are the same as the ones in mine. Do you by any chance remember where you got the jpegs? I was wondering if somebody else has the same boards if they were able to get replacement components, thanks John.

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Re: DIY Skeeball
« Reply #75 on: January 10, 2005, 09:38:01 am »
Will you be adding t-molding to your edges?
NO MORE!!

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Re: DIY Skeeball
« Reply #76 on: January 10, 2005, 11:06:38 am »
T-molding or some cover surface will be added, but the only part with t-molding is right around the display.

The internal pics on here were taken by UncleT. If you saw the internal pics that were on my website, I just did a google image search for skeeball.

Brad

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Re: DIY Skeeball
« Reply #77 on: January 11, 2005, 06:16:30 pm »
Marque pic with attached score/ball count.



Brad
« Last Edit: August 17, 2007, 02:40:48 pm by saint »

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Re: DIY Skeeball
« Reply #78 on: January 11, 2005, 09:18:56 pm »
You know that is totally awesome and gnarly.I want one but it will never happen that puppy is to big.Plus wife would castrate me.You going to have tickets and prizes too??

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Re: DIY Skeeball
« Reply #79 on: January 11, 2005, 09:52:19 pm »
No tickets or prizes hehe. If someone wanted to I'm sure they could wire up a ticket counter to it. I have another piece of smoked plexi that when I get it wired up, get the score rings and new front covers in that I will drop a monitor in there and show how RandyT's program looks with it. Eventually with Randy developing more on the monitor end of things and me working on a system to use  either LED or the original style displays, people wanting to build one of these will have their choice of which way to run with it. RandyT was nice enough to send me a Keywiz to test out with it, I've just been a bit slower working on it since my college classes (which are all done online) kicked back in. Probably this weekend I will weld/bend a netting frame so I will quit skipping balls off the side of it, then I will need to get the rubber bumpers to go on the ramp sides, add the parts I ordered/won, paint the cork ramp surfacing, add in effects lights in the score area, and other things like that. Just a few things, but she is coming right along. I have found that if I step foot into that room, I end up playing a few rounds of skeeball.

You could always build a 6' model... or maybe figure out a way to make a collapsable/folding ramp. Now that would be interesting...

Brad