DIY Skeeball

[Ixliam]

Since I have actually started on this, I thought I would move it here. I have been trying to locate a skeeball locally in Georgia with little to no luck. It was hard enough for me to find an arcade cabinet here, much less a used and REASONABLE skeeball. I thought that since an arcade cabinet is possible, why not skeeball ?

UncleT has been kind enough to provide dimensions and details on many things here, and I have my own drawing along with a pile of skeeball pics in a zip file at ixliam.home.comcast.net/skeeball.zip. It is 5mb however.

I am going to go for this body style below. There doesn't seem to be much variation in the ramp, but there is some in the way the scoring section is cut, along with variations in the support for both (steel legs, long cabinets, support boxes underneath).



The scoring is a simple circuit that is nothing more than a 3 chip counter, and the ball count is the same just one chip less. As far as how it stops the balls from rolling down the ball return, there are a few methods that I think would be feasable for the home builder. A start button with an electric solinoid to open/close a release gate. A manual button that pulls down a gate, or if you wanted to just use one ball the counter could close the gate at ball 9.

Construction pics are below, and feel free to ask any questions you may have.

Brad

[Ixliam]

Ramps and support pieces.


Score section side panel.


Assembling the score section.


Target with 4" holes cut.


Assembled Score section w/ Target


Support brackets for target. The gap between the target
and front is large enough for a skeeball to fall through (for
total misses).


Score section with target in place.

Brad

[walls83]

That thing is going to be a monster.  I cant wait to see how it comes out.  Nice work so far.

[Ixliam]

They didn't make them small for sure, though I  know there is a 6' model for kids I believe. Least I didn't try to do one of the 1900 or so models... the ramp was 35 feet long... needless to say in those days only men played it. They later shortened it to 13', then to 10' which is what most of them are. I believe the ones I played on in Panama City, FL when I was a kid (1970's) were the 13' ones, but that's a guess.

Brad

[Ixliam]

My official assistants.


Inside ramp section w/ramp support rails.


Ramp section ready for assembly.


Ramp assembled.


This didn't work out so well. I was trying to heat
this 1/8" lexan. Some curved well, some didn't.
The problem was I could not get an even curve
overall. Maybe if you had a mold, that would work.
So, onto option #2 for the curve - use the MDF scrap.


I will have to cut out 25 of these to get the 19"
needed for the ramp width. Sucks, but on the
other hand it will work after I give it a good sanding.


Here are two of those pieces together. I will
assemble them with two large dowel rods and
wood glue (tomorrow). Course I have to cut the
rest out first 

Brad

[RayB]

You need to heat the lexan against a pipe or other part that's the correct shape for the curve...

[Ixliam]

I do know that, but to get the real shape I needed to heat it and form it to a mold made from the skeeball ramp track. I just decided to heck with that method, and I am cutting the wood pieces and will put them together. I want to make sure I get the correct shape/contour so that it will play like the real thing.

Well, off to the hardware store for some goodies...

Brad

[Ixliam]

Today was pretty much an all-day project on the ramp, though some of it was spent getting some hardware. My parents were kind enough to give me a bandsaw (which saved me from buying one). They had this sitting in their out building for about 18 years. A little WD-40 and a new blade and she was buzzing. Also mad a trip to Lowes for the rods and wood glue, along with some red paint. Ended up picking up a belt grinder to do all the sanding with to even out the ramp.

So, for todays long project, I couldn't find wooden dowels so I used 1/4" threaded rod. On the start end I put a lock nut and recessed it into the wood. Then I started stacking the parts that I had cut. I used one part as my master part, which had pilot holes for the threaded rod hole and was what I based all the other pieces I cut on. Each piece was then placed onto the rods and then wood glued to the next piece. There are a grand total of 25 pieces of this stuff, and I would not recommend trying to cut them out with a jigsaw. A bandsaw or a scroll saw is the only way to do it.

Another option for the ramp would be to put a piece of wood across the ramp frame at the top, another in the center of the S curve, then secure some flexible plastic/wood material to those points and to the ramp holder. It might just form the correct curve on its on, or be pretty close. For now, someone else can try it unless I build some mini 5" ramp model to try.

So, here are todays construction pics.


Ramp curve in partial assembly.


The curve is finally put together.


Curve after a nice sanding session.

I will probably get the ramp together tonight, maybe put the target white curves together then call it a night.

Brad

[Ixliam]

Here is the ramp assembled, minus the cork surfacing.






Brad

[unclet]

What is the rolling surface made out of .... it looks like peg board .... could that be true?   Are you going to put an authentic SkeeBall cork carpet down on top of that?   If so, please realize that in order to attach the cork carpet, I believe you use some type of contact cement and you would not want the contact cement to warp the peg board (or thin piece of wood) beneath.  Also, in order to clean a SkeeBall cork carpet, you generally spray it down with some "Simple Green" cleaner (or something similiar) and scrub it down, then wait for it to air dry.  Basically, you would not want any wetness to seep through the carpet (or go down the sides of the carpet) to the peg board (or thin piece of wood) underneath either.  This might cause warping as well.......

Also, wanted to tell you that you should call the arcade vendors and see if they have an extra set of white SkeeBall chutes lying around for sale.  If a SkeeBall machine is too old to salvage then usually the vendor will keep the white chutes to use for parts (or at least the few I contacted had some). ..... By the way, the vendors I know around me do not have any extra white chutes .... I checked for you.

Machine looks good ..... seems like you are spending a good amount of time on it each day.  You must really have the itching to play SkeeBall.

PS:  I would also consider putting in some 100 circles since you are already going through with all this work.  Adding the 100 chutes could not be that much more work.    It would be bad to have people come over and hear them say .... where are the 100's?   This is what happened to me, so instead of buying a SkeeBall machine without the 100 chutes, I waited longer to find someone selling one with the 100 chutes .

[bishmasterb]

Brad,

Great work so far! I can't wait to see the completed project. I love the fact that you are expanding the hobby in a different direction.

Are you building the scoring circuit, using a PC or what? What about the display, custom-made or are you using a monitor of some sort?

Keep up the good work.

[unclet]

Also, something looked wrong about your target layout so I started to look into it.   

It turns out that the drawing I sent you showing the measurements for the target board layout did not correctly show the layout of the hole positioning.   Basically, the bottom hole (10 points) is shown as being right near the bottom of the target area .... and this is not correct (or at least not how my machine has the holes laid out).   There is a 4 3/8" space between the bottom of the target area and the bottom 10 point hole. 

I attached two pictures ...... one showing my SkeeBall machine showing you the space under the 10 point and an updated measurement diagram of the target area. 

I do not believe it would be too hard to cut out the target board again, but I am not sure if your progressed to far today or not.


PS:  Sorry about the missed measurement ........  hope I am not too late

[Ixliam]

I have designed my own circuit for the score and ball counter. It could easily be interfaced with a computer system if you wanted to, though you would have to write a custom program and maybe build an A/D interface (easiest is to use the printer port) as well.

Unclet: No problem on the measurements being goofy. My wife mentioned that something didn't look right, but I told her that was how it was drawn. Should have listened to her. I have enough wood to cut another target out, just hate haveing to use that 4" holesaw again. MDF gums up in the teeth, and I have to blow out the cut to get the dust out. Ok, done whining about it now .

To answer the earlier questions that is pegboard for the ramp. With the support I have on it, you can walk on it. I looked at luann but it was $21 compared to $5 for the pegboard, and was the same thickness. I tad bit stronger, but since it would have to be supported anyway, thought I would try the pegboard. One thing I am keeping in mind is that this will not take the serious abuse that one in an arcade will. It is very sturdy,, but some things I may not have to go as far in (i.e. using 3/4" MDF instead of 3/4" plywood). I do have cork surfacing that is going on it, then I will need heavier cork for the sides, then that rubber bumper about half way up. The cork I got is 1/16" thick in a roll, as I figured I would try that using some heavy spray glue we use on pegboard at my office when building exhibits.

On the machines I played on, once you put your money in there was a plunger on the bottom you pulled. This then dropped the balls down. Since mine won't have any coins in it, I am adding the plunger which is attached to a rope run to a simple internal ball stop. The pics of this are below, and it works better than I thought. I got the idea for doing it this way from pics of people who are building their own airplane controls, and they used bungee cord as the "spring" for the pedals. I thought that was pretty good, since bungee cord is pretty tough, and I had some around the house where we use it to secure our diving equipment when we go cave diving. I don't have any drawings of what I built exactly, since I fiddled with it till I got it right.

The original thread which started all this is here if anyone wants to look http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,29455.0.html

Brad

[Ixliam]

Here are more of todays construction pictures.

[Ixliam]

Test baseball ready for release.


Lets play! (this is my test ball, I have wood balls on order for this.)

To answer something I forgot in the earlier message, for the display I have bought an original skeeball display which uses lamps to light the LED-ish segments. It will give a more authentic look, though you could go modern with either a 7 segment LED display or use an LCD and make it like the modern ones I have seen. But on the LCD, you would need to add the computer interface or possibly do it with a basic stamp.

Brad

[Ixliam]

Construction notes.

I have spent two days on the ramp itself. So far, that is the hardest part, and heaviest part.  About 1/2 a day was spent cutting the cutting the curved pieces, and an entire day was spent on building the side sections. If anyone decides to do this, know that the ramp is the hardest part to build, and harder if you are going for the exact curve of a skeeball machine. If you did it with wood slats and bondo, it would probably take less time.

Brad

[unclet]

Sorry again ...... but I am glad I caught it in time for you to recut the target area.

The day I got measurements for you my kid was sick (who is now completely better) and I just jotted some of the basic "hole" measurements ..... it never occurred to me to get the space distance from the bottom.

Looks great by the way ....... can not wait until you paint it and dress it up ....

Keep the pics coming as you progress ...... very enjoyable

Regards,
UncleT

[billf]

Wow, this thing is looking pretty impressive so far.  Very nice work.  Keep it up and definitely keep the pictures coming! 

[Wade]

Wow, you are really whipping this thing out, and it is looking nice!!  I can't wait to see the finished product.  The real LED display is going to be a nice touch.  Are you going to use T-molding on the edges for a finished look, or do you have something else in mind?  I think T-molding is a great way to make a finished edge on MDF, but I'm sure there are other creative ways.

Kudos on the good work!!  I think this will be the first DIY-skeeball on this forum!

Wade

[Ixliam]

Far as I know, I'm the first one to make a skeeball based on a real one. I've seen simple ramps with a 45 degree slope going into some holes, but that's about it. Nothing full sized like this, and I'm on a skeeball yahoo group as well. There has been several inquiries about making one (same as there has been on here), but to date I haven't seen anyone do it. Maybe this will open up a new aspect of arcade creation, who knows. The fellow I bought the display sections from wants one of the old fashioned grandma fortune tellers, and he's almost to the point of making one since he cannot locate one (and he used to work in an amusement park). Some games would work well for home building, others would be pointless (like the crane ones where you grab a prize).

I am trying to get as much done as possible as next Monday I start back on school classes. I am taking college classes online to finish up my degree, since I dropped out of college when I got married 9 years ago. Now, I'm 33 and only have a year left, so why not complete what I started? I've basically gone as far as I can with my skills work-wise, and having that degree has been holding me back. For the younger folks on here, finish your schooling first, then get married if you want to.

The only part that has T-molding on it is around the score, and I probably will. We do T-molding on our exhibits my work produces, so I know we have routers that will cut it, just doubt we have yellow though. The top of the ball-holder/ticket sections is covered with a large piece of yellow plastic, and the front will be done in metal like the older skeeballs have. Not sure if it will be stainless or aluminum, all depends on what I manage to scrounge up   If someone didn't have access to strong metal, you could take and put in a middle curved section for support then curve over 22/24 gauge aluminum that is sold at the local hardware store. It can be cut with snips easily and would act as a flashy covering. Give it the look of the real thing but not be expensive stainless (which is a real bugger to cut). You might even want to make it have stronger support on the curved ends if it might take abuse, as that thin metal will dent easily.

UncletT: Can you give me the inside dimensions on the marque/score section ? I just need the height from the bottom piece of wood to the top piece of wood. If you can't get it due to the metal bracket holding the marque/score, just the overall outside height will work as well. I will be cutting a new score section tonight with the 100 rings on it. Can you also shoot a closeup of the rubber/cork guard on one of the sides. Want to see what shape it is.

Brad

[RandyT]

Brad,

The speed of your progress is pretty amazing.   Something we aren't used to seeing too much of around here (Ok, maybe it's just me )

If you haven't already, take a look at this thread.  Not as authentic as the original display, but definitely more possibilities available.  And, if you happen to have some old hardware around,  not too costly to implement.

Also, do you have a drawing / CAD file (dxf)  of your ramp segments?  Have you actually thrown any kind of ball at it yet to see what happens?  I have a few thoughts on the ramp, but haven't had the time to try to decipher the curve.  Thanks for  sharing your progress.

While I'm at it, I'd like to thank UncleT for taking the time to provide the sorely needed info from his machine.  I'm sure it will help a bunch of us who have had this gnawing at them for a while, but had little clue where to start and didn't want to get thrown out of Chuck E. Cheese for climbing on the machines with a tape measure .


RandyT

[Ixliam]

I actually have thrown some balls up the ramp to watch them go nicely up in an arc... and into the front yard where I was aiming I had the score section freshly painted so I didn't want to goof that up.

I e-mailed you a DXF of the project, though it is a working drawing and so its geared more towards me. Part of this is figuring out how everything fits together/works, so some of it (like the ball release) is trial and error. With the pictures I took I should be able to come up with some decent documentation on building one of these, and hopefully others will as well. Cost wise I probably have about $125+/- in lumber/screws/misc. I am running a tally sheet but I'm at the office now so I don't have it in front of me to look at.

The program you did is pretty neat, I do like it. I may even try to mod this one if I can to run either the original display or your monitor style display if you want me to beta test it in the real thing, since far as I know I'm the first to build a full scale machine.

Brad

Brad

[unclet]

RandyT: Thanks for the appreciation ...... no problem really .. just glad to be able to help out where I can.

Ixliam: As for your requests ..... here you go.

The picture below shows the marquee measurements you requested (I think).  All the wood on the sides, top and bottom are 3/4" thick.   I was a bit confused on the metal bar thing you mentioned, but  maybe that is because I do not have a metal bar used for my marquee.  Anyway, let me know if you need anything else.

BTW:  You can see that my marquee art is held in place by a little piece of wood which can be turned to allow the marquee to be removed or held in place.  Only one screw holds the wood in place so it pivots on that screw.

BTW as well:  Also, note that the marquee art is recessed in a bit when it is mounted (ie: check out my next photo for a measurement).  Also, the bottom of the marquee is held in place by a strip of yellow plastic whicih is simply screwed into the bottom marquee frame.

[unclet]

This next picture shows how far the "top" part of the marquee art is recessed.  Reference the marquee picture above to see how the marquee art actually looks while mounted.   Also, (based on the picture above), please note that the sides of the marquee art are gradually less recessed going from top to bottom.

[unclet]

Also, something which I have not mentioned before was the "pegs" located behind the 50 and 100 chutes.  These pegs makes sure the ball does not get wedged behind a chute.   The ball will simply hit the peg and fall to either side.

Also, I am showing you the height distance from the top of the target board and the bottom of the marquee area.

 

[Ixliam]

Thanks for the extra pics you sent me. It's back to the office after a lone extended weekend, so not too much was done today. I did cut out the NEW target section, patch the drill holes, put in a ball stop and paint a bit. I will end up cutting some of the painted scoreboard, and depending on how I do the score display, there will have to be some other support board in place there. I went ahead and started on the display circuit, and I am about 1/2 way done with the score end of it. The circuit for each digit is identical, so being able to test one digit out will be nice once I get it put together.

I really like RandyT's display he came up with. Will be nice to see in the future where this all leads. I'm almost torn to go that route and put a monitor in there. On your display Randy, how customizable are the positions of the ball # and score ?. I wonder if you could just have that display through a marque in place where the numbers are. Its a thought at least.







Brad

[unclet]

Now ... have you decided whether you are putting a netting over the target area .. (or something similiar) ....  so the balls do not slam into your marquee?

[Ixliam]

Yep, it will have netting. Don't need it flying through the windows either. I'll weld/bend a frame once I get to that point.

Brad

[stevejt]

I just wanted to tell you that it looks awesome.  I have seen people talk about doing this.  You are the first I have seen actually do it.  My son love loves the game, so I have thought about doing the same thing.  But it's just too big.  It takes up the space of 5 or 6 cabinets...  Maybe someday I will have a house with a basement the size of a bowling alley....

Steve

[Minwah]

Cool project, don't think I've ever played the game but it looks great so far.  Looks like you'll have it finished pretty soon at this rate!

[Ixliam]

Thanks for all the compliments.... BTW Minwah - I use MAMEWAH on my arcade cabinet

Brad

[ras2a]

Damn you Brad, I only have a finite amount of space in my house!  All these new cool projects are getting the creative juices flowing again...and just when my wife thought she had quelled them...

Brilliant!

[walls83]

Man you got way to much time on your hands.  You are a building machine.  Its looking fantastic.  Are you keeping a running total of cost?  Id like to know how much this is going to cost you, either way its going to be alot cheaper then if you bought one.

Great work

[hulkster]

hmmm, you should ditch that red paint and put....MARBLE CONTACT PAPER ON IT!!  that would be awesome! 

[Ixliam]

Marble contact paper.... hmmm...I can only do that if put a .5" LED display and a 27" surrounding marque around it.

Brad

[Ixliam]

Here's todays work. Only thing is that when you see the board I added in under the bottom of the ramp, it didn't hold well when I attached it to the score board. The woodscrews holding it to the 1x2's pulled right out after about 10 minutes. Nothing fell as I had jacks underneath it "just in case", but I will have to get some heavier material for the board support (like a 2x2 along with some bolts to attach it to the frame.

I haven't made the 100 rings yet, so that is why they are empty. We did play a few easy games of it, not willing to hurl the ball too fast since I have no netting and no backboard (with windows all around). Tomorrow after work I will fix the support issue and work on directing the flow of the balls to the return chute. RIght now, they just hit the floor.

[Ixliam]

This is the board that pulled loose. It was only held on by the woodscrews going into the 1x2's behind it. I will be swapping those 1x2's and woodscrews for bolts and 2x2's.

[Ixliam]

Just like when working on cars, always use a jack underneath for support. I needed a creeper when I was crawling underneath to tighten these support bolts. When the board seperated, these bolts held. The woodscrews on the ramp side did not.






Brad

[unclet]

Good progress...... how did the curved ramp section feel when playing?

Also, what are those blacks strips with screws in them shown in your picture?  Are these the rubber guards for the sides?    If so, are you going to try to recess the srwew heads a bit?

PS: If you attached the L-brackets for your target chutes on the "inside" of the chutes then they would not be seen by the player......

[Ixliam]

The black things are aluminum gem metal. We use them to build exhibits. We have parts that slide into the slots. I'm using them for the back legs on the score section. The bolts are up underneath the bottom of the scoreboard section.

I have a dumb question though. If you roll the ball and don't even hit the first ring, does it come back down the ramp or does yours have a gutter ? The pics I have seem to indicate there is not one, though I think the last ones I played had a gutter below the ramp that would take your ball if you couldn't even get it into the first ring, or hit the outside of the first ring, netting, etc.

Brad

[str1der]

Brad, Didn't know if you saw this on Ebay since the guy spelt it Ski-Ball. Thought you might be interested in it for the rings.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3945&item=6144140102&rd=1

[Ixliam]

Thanks!  I dropped him a line about what shipping it might run.

Brad

[unclet]

The ball would definitely go into the gutter area .... no free retries 

Check out the pic below and you can see the gutter area.   

Actually all balls eventually hit the same spot in the gutter, except most balls first go through a target chute then fall vertically behind the target area into the same gutter location.   

When a ball enters the gutter area, then it will roll to the right and go back to the ball return area.   When it reaches the right handed tube area (where the ball goes back where it started from) then the ball first rolls under a mounted microswitch metal arm which is used to keep track of how many balls have been played so far.    You probably already know this though......

I attached a second picture showing you the vertical drop and the gutter area without the target board on the machine.   

PS:  Notice my custom made sound dampening material (ie: old padded seat cover) which I decided to use to lower the noise of the balls slamming into the bottom of the gutter area after falling through the vertical drop.   Under this yellow seat cover is plastic so you can imagine the noise a wooden ball had when slamming into black plastic after every ball.   I thought my wife was going to shoot me ......     Anyway, it works quite well.

[Ixliam]

That helps, some reason my brain went foggy on me. Can you take a picture of where the gutter ramp goes into the ball return ? Maybe position the camera facing toward the front of the skeeball ramp shooting a closeup of the ball return ?

Thanks - Brad

[RandyT]

I really like RandyT's display he came up with. Will be nice to see in the future where this all leads. I'm almost torn to go that route and put a monitor in there. On your display Randy, how customizable are the positions of the ball # and score ?. I wonder if you could just have that display through a marque in place where the numbers are. Its a thought at least.

Currently, position and size are fixed.  I'll take a look at how much of a pain it will be to make size and position of the elements configurable.  Ideally, a skinning app would be the ticket here, but for now, a little "hit and miss" with a config file would be ok as well (hmm..just had another thought about this one....but I'll see how it works before I talk about it too much )

In any case, Brad, send me your address.  Due to the unique nature of the project and your fervent attention to  it, I'm willing to donate a KeyWiz Eco2 to the cause.


uncleT:  Sorry if this has been asked/answered already, but could you tell me the height and thickness of the material used for the  scoring rings?  I'm trying to find some suitable material that won't break the bank.  Thanks again for all the info!

RandyT

[unclet]

RandyT:
The chutes are made from GoodYear especially for SkeeBall Inc.  They are rubber with a "white-wall" outer covering (just like the white-wall on a tire).  The height of the chutes (white rubber) are 4 inches.   The thickness of the chutes are 1/4"

Ixliam:
The picture here shows the ball return.   The ball drops down vertically and lands on my custom yellow spongy stuff which is attached to a black plastic curve.   You can see the curvature of this black plastic in the picture.   After the ball hits the yellow spongy stuff then the ball slowly rolls to the right (since this is at a slight incline) and then enters the hole seen in the picture.   This hole takes the ball back to it's starting location in the right side ball return "tube" (for a lack of a better word).   Right after entering the "hole" on the right side of the ball return tube, the ball triggers a microswitch with a metal arm.  This is the switch which keeps count on how many balls were thrown.

This is the best picture I can get with dismantling some more stuff.   There really is nothing else to describe ..... just that the ball hits the yellow stuff and rolls on a slight incline to the right until it goes into the ball return tube hole where it activates a microswitch.

Let me know if this is what you wanted....

PS:  In this picture you can also see the red ball "stoppers" which are in place to slow the ball down so the ball does not roll down and "over" the chute and come out.  The ball hits the red stopper spongy stuff and slows it down a bit so the ball goes into the hole rather than coming out of the chutes.   Please note I added my own custom yellow ball stopper in the center, but the "red" ones came with the machine.  Also, there should be 3 "red" ones, but I am missing one on the lower chute .....  it should be on the opposite side of the "red" stopper which does exist ....

[Ixliam]

McMaster-Carr/Grainger sells rubber sheets (not for the bedroom), but the way they describe it is by resistance/hardness. They do have some that is white, but I was reluctant to order any without being able to get my hands on it to see if it is the right substance. That might be an option to look at other than calling around and seeing if you can find some old skeeball rings.

Brad

[unclet]

Seems like we posted at the same time ..... see my reply above ...

Also.... what are you planning on using for the rubber bumpers?  Maybe the rubber which separates carpet from tile will work for you. ... do you know what I mean?    It is a strip of rubber (I forget the offical name) which is placed where carpet meets tile.   I believe carpet distributors carry this stuff (not carpet sellers).   I also believe a track is available which is mounted so the rubber strips can be attached to the track to hold it in place.   The rubber strips come in different shapes and sizes.   

Maybe someone else can help out with the official name of this stuff, although if you call a carpet distributor and you my lame description, they will know exactly what you are talking about.

[Ixliam]

I'll dig around and find something for the bumpers. I thought about using a cut-down rubber ball like kids use for playing jacks.

I reinforced the support to put the two sections together with my favorite material, STEEL. The tubing is bolted to the frame with 5/16" bolts, so it isn't going anywhere. The tubes slide in each other, then when I pick up some more bolts (forgot to buy enough) the panels on the scoreboard and ramp will bolt together as well. The panel that pulled lose from the ramp is now secured with large 3" wood screws.

[Ixliam]

One thing I ended up having to recut another panel for the scoreboard section on the front. I played around with the original looking at getting a gutter working, then realized I did it wrong to begin with and cut off too much. I was able to use a nice piece off the miscut target panel, so it wasn't a total waste.

Anyone have a line on trip-wire switches ? I'll ask in the FS section as well, as Happs is a bit expensive.

Brad

[unclet]

I was wondering what you were going to use for the long rubber bumpers which are to be mounted on the sides of the rolling panel ..... not the little round bumper things to slow the balls down in the chutes...... 

Any thought as to what material you would use for these?

[Ixliam]

I want to find rubber for that actually. I haven't dug around in the industrial catalogs yet or scrounged to see if I can find anything that would work for that.

I did order trip-wire switches today from Happs to wire the panel. I'm going to go simple at first, since if I went optical I would have to create a nice little circuit for each ball, and I really don't feel like doing that

Brad

[JackTucky]

awesome progress so far.  You HAVE to post a video of this thing in action.

Art

[unclet]

Then go ahead and call a carpet distributor and ask what the rubber striping (which separates carpet and tile) is called.   I believe there are many different shapes to this stuff and there is also a track which the rubber can slide onto.   Basically, you can attach the track to the side of the SkeeBall rolling lane and then simply slide the rubber striping onto the track..... no visible screws either.

I tried calling a carpet distributor this morning since it is buggin the hell out of me that I can not remember the name of this stuff, but I was put on hold way to long .....had to get back to work.

[Ixliam]

I played my first real game of skeeball on this tonight.  First off, it played really well, but I don't care for the 100 rings up there. Just not quite my style, I prefer the earlier configuration. On the ball chute, because my initial incline into it is higher than it needs to be, I ended up cutting a mousehole in the target. However, I did get the balls to return after being thrown, so this weekend I will take off the right side and drop that section down, then rebuilt parts of the ball returning stuff on the inside. It was pretty much trial and error to get that to work right, and there is one 'dead spot' that I might need to sand to give it a slope since the ball caught on it. I should have my wooden balls in tomorrow, so that will give me a true test. I will end up recutting another target (no biggie) without the 100 rings. Padding wise on it, it needs some heavier padding or 1/4" cork surfacing. The thin layer of cork that I plan on using on the ramp doesn't cut it for the target, as the ball might as well be hitting bare wood.

One thing about this is that it might cost me a bit more on some things than someone who might build one after me, since I'm figuring out all the issues as I go along. Well, here are the photos with some of the ball being airborne.



I dragged my wife away from our MUD long enough to play some.


Foul Ball!!


If I drop the part where the ball goes into the return, I wouldn't have to cut this "mousehole".


Cheap pathway on left side. Ball comes out of hole on right, then down to left side.


Ball falls through holes and then hits angled wood at end, dropping through hole to picture above.



Closeup of hole from the target tube.










Brad

[GadgetGeek]

just a thought...instead of recutting your target, maybe cut a couple circles to plug the 100s from underneath.  Then if you change your mind in the future, you can just drop out the plugs.

[Ixliam]

Well, I was pretty tired when I posted that message, and I do have something to block those holes with (they are blocked now. Perhaps I can overlay something to cover up my "mousehole" that I cut out (which is the main reason I wanted to recut another one. I do have the pieces I cut, so maybe some woodglue, a screwed in backing, and elbow grease will fix it. I plan on recovering the board with something else anyway as that surfacing doesn't cushion impact as well as it should. It will work well on the ramp, just not on the target.

Brad

[Ixliam]

I ended up blocking the 100 rings off and patching back the piece I removed when I cut the "mousehole" last night. I took the side off the ball return/feed and moved the entire track down, about 2". What I did end up doing is instead of using a board as a track, I used 1x2's on each side, which left a nice open section in the middle where the ball stop lever could fit. I had to rework it as well. Without having that board there I instantly gained 3/4" as well.

I also got in my 3" wood balls from Van Dykes today. VERY VERY NICE I must say. 10 of them for $34.99, not bad when you consider skeeballs are being sold for about $7-10 on e-bay.  They are natural color, so a good dark stain will give them a nice skeeball appearance.

I'll post pictures later tonight..

Brad

[Ixliam]

Here are the pics of todays work. I now have a working ball return make from black plastic (same strength/thickness as the white score rings I have).  I used a heat gun and formed it to shape, so that make it very easy to use and much better than using wood. It is rather loud when the wood balls hit it, however.
















Brad

[MinerAl]

If you fill in the space behind the black plastic with expanding foam, or some other insulator, it might reduce the volume of the ball hitting it.

[Ixliam]

Interesting idea with the foam. We did have our first casulty of the day. While playing before I got ready to paint it, one of the wood balls hit the plastic 20 ring and I heard a lound "whack" where the plastic ring broke. Nice clean break, but this plastic held in that type of stress (a round circle) isn't good for the rings. I am bidding on rings on e-bay, so hopefully I will get those. I did see some pics online of Chuck-E-Cheese machines with black rings and white lettering, which I thought were pretty neat looking. If I fail to get those rings, then I may go looking as some of the rubber sections that Grainger/McMaster-Carr sell. Only white they have is for FDA approved use, and of course is much higher. Black however, is about 1/2 the price. My rings are only 1/8" thick, but 1/4" barrel plastic would work better. At one time I worked for a playground company that manufactured the huge plastic playground sets for schools/restaurants, and that was pretty much what that plastic was. Just this type is under too much stress being bent and then hit with high speed wooden balls. Most of the places where my rivets/L-brackets are have cracks as well.  I'm sure there are other materials well suited to this, but 1/8" plastic isn't it

Brad

[Pyro]

Would small sections of different sized white PVC pipe work for your rings, or would it be too brittle?

I've been following your thread and am impressed with your Skee Ball Machine. Keep up the good work!

Pyro

[Ixliam]

Pyro: It would work ok for the smaller rings, but when you get into the larger rings you would need a pipe with like a 3' diameter. Unless you had a source for scrap pipe of that size, the cost of buying a 8' section of pipe just to cut 4" off of it would be outrageous. The other problem is that those pipes would have to match the exact OD of the score rings, and it might be hard finding the right sizes if you are wanting to stick with the same diameter as the original ones.

After getting a good look at the ring, I remembered that ring (20) I just curved without using the heat gun since it was so flexible. That was likely the problem since it stressed that area pretty severe. Had I used the heat gun to help it mold to that shape, it might have been fine.

Brad

[RandyT]

Just wanted to make a comment about a possible concern when using  hard materials for rings.

Over time, that harder  plastic will probably start taking little bites out of the wooden balls  Eventually , this could lead to premature wear of the rolling and target surfaces, especially with something softer like cork material.  It could also cause  ball return problems and general debris related issues from the pieces.

It seems like something softer than the wooden balls would be the best solution..  Even if it's something like vinyl "base molding" (maybe doubled for extra rigidity)

RandyT

[Ixliam]

RandyT: Could be that it might do that in the long run. It might be ok if you used the plastic balls, but it might do some damage to the wood ones.

Hopefully I will end up snagging some rubber rings for mine and that won't be an issue anymore.

Brad

[Samstag]

Here's a link to some [somewhat expensive] white rubber you might want to consider:

http://www.mcmaster.com/nav/enter.asp?pagenum=3275

Item #86795K77 is probably what you want.

[RandyT]

Here's a link to some [somewhat expensive] white rubber you might want to consider:

http://www.mcmaster.com/nav/enter.asp?pagenum=3275

Item #86795K77 is probably what you want.  36x4x1/4" strips.  They're about the same hardness as a car tire.  At $6.60 per foot it might be more than you wanted to spend but would probably be the next best thing to the real rings, and probably cheaper than brand new rings.

I have a chunk of that material on the floor next to me (left over from a different project).  Nice stuff, but by time you did all the rings you needed you'd be into it for close to $200 and you'd still need to piece it for the larger ones or cut lengthwise from a much larger sheet (even more money)

Like Brad said above, the black is cheaper and might be a better way to go , if you don't mind the black rings.

RandyT

[Ixliam]

With the plastic rings, it looks like the problem was with me not using a heat gun to form it, so it was overstressed big time. I will say if you are going to go with plastic rings, go with plastic balls from Happs. They are the same price right now as the wooden ones, and when I weighed them the weight is the same.

Here are the pics of the day...


Yellow plastic cover with clear ball cutout.


I had to trim some on the inside of the wood to get the overhang of the plexi to fit flush down onto the wood, so it didn't have a hump right where the 9th ball window is.


Front cover. The sides will be done either with a custom stainless piece or if possible, original covers.


End of ramp plastic cover.

Brad

[Ixliam]

The shelf for the monitor/marque is now in place, along with a back cover. You can see the broken ring here.


Back cover, from the back,


Overall view of ramp. I will be covering this with another thin cork layer and painting the cork.

Brad

[Ixliam]

Ring problem solved... I won me a set.



Brad

[versapak]

Ring problem solved... I won me a set.

Do you know the size of those rings? I hope they fit, because in that pic they look huge.

[Ixliam]

Its just the picture... the riings are fine.

brad

[Jhowey]

Sorry if this was already posted by me. New to this type of forum. Congratulations on your machine it looks great. I have an original 13 foot manual machine which was converted to electronic back in the 80's. My machine is playable but needs some electronic work. The Amusement Park (Knoebel

[Ixliam]

I'm still working on my circuits, but if you want something that just drops in there is a guy on e-bay who sells some type of control system for $100. I don't know anything about it other than it is there and according to him they designed these for Chuck-E-Cheese.

My circuits are still under construction and will likely be PC driven so that I can customize the sounds. Keep in mine that from all we know, a full blown DIY skeeball hasn't been done before, so this is kinda a trial and error project. My ball release is powered by bungee cord, BTW to provide the back tension. It doesn' have alot, as I didn't want too much pull on the lever, but enough to keep the balls from rolling down.

Do a search for Skeeball or read through all the posts here as there is a locked thread where alot of these things are discussed. The skeeball circuit is nothing more than a counter. If you wanted to wing it, look for 7-segment LCD counters. Use a darlington IC to switch the 14v coming from your lamps to power the score/ball counts. I'm pretty much going to do that with mine in the end and write a custom program to handle running the sound effects/display. That is of course vapor ware at this point. RandyT has a beta program he has written, but it won't work for what you are looking for.

Brad

[Jhowey]

Either you got some of my pictures that I posted from my machine or somebody has the same electronics as mine. The display board and main boards are the same as the ones in mine. Do you by any chance remember where you got the jpegs? I was wondering if somebody else has the same boards if they were able to get replacement components, thanks John.

[RayB]

Will you be adding t-molding to your edges?

[Ixliam]

T-molding or some cover surface will be added, but the only part with t-molding is right around the display.

The internal pics on here were taken by UncleT. If you saw the internal pics that were on my website, I just did a google image search for skeeball.

Brad

[Ixliam]

Marque pic with attached score/ball count.



Brad

[Will]

You know that is totally awesome and gnarly.I want one but it will never happen that puppy is to big.Plus wife would castrate me.You going to have tickets and prizes too??

[Ixliam]

No tickets or prizes hehe. If someone wanted to I'm sure they could wire up a ticket counter to it. I have another piece of smoked plexi that when I get it wired up, get the score rings and new front covers in that I will drop a monitor in there and show how RandyT's program looks with it. Eventually with Randy developing more on the monitor end of things and me working on a system to use  either LED or the original style displays, people wanting to build one of these will have their choice of which way to run with it. RandyT was nice enough to send me a Keywiz to test out with it, I've just been a bit slower working on it since my college classes (which are all done online) kicked back in. Probably this weekend I will weld/bend a netting frame so I will quit skipping balls off the side of it, then I will need to get the rubber bumpers to go on the ramp sides, add the parts I ordered/won, paint the cork ramp surfacing, add in effects lights in the score area, and other things like that. Just a few things, but she is coming right along. I have found that if I step foot into that room, I end up playing a few rounds of skeeball.

You could always build a 6' model... or maybe figure out a way to make a collapsable/folding ramp. Now that would be interesting...

Brad

[unclet]

Looks great.   Nice work.

I was wondering whether you have trouble with the balls hitting the marquee when then roll up from the curved rolling surface and become airbourne?  Also, when you fabricate the netting cage, I am assuming the netting will be below the marquee so will there be enough room fo the ball to arc enough to make it into the 50 holes without hitting the netting on top?

[Ixliam]

I've only had it hit the marquee one time, and that was when I chunked it too fast. The netting will solve that problem, and there is still plenty of room for it to hit the 50.

Brad

[walls83]

Your going to paint the cork?  I dont think I would do that.  Dont the skee ball machines have felt pulled over the ramp?  Maybe not but I thought that they had like pool table felt pulled over the cork.

[Ixliam]

No, it is really dense cork. You can order the cork covering from skeeball, but it will set you back $150. Long as the paint is waterbased it will do fine.

Brad

[Ixliam]

After looking at several pics I decided to go with black for the color of the ramp, scoreboard covering, and back guard. The scoring rings will be white. In the pics below, the cork doesn't look as bad as it shows up here, the flash seems to show all the flaws. It will still need another coat of touchup paint however.

The stainless steel end covers are from an original skeeball machine, and they fit perfectly over my endpieces. Only modification I did was to drill two screw holes in the "Tokens Only" one so that it would not open on its own. I didn't feel like purchasing a new lock/key and contructing a locking mech for something that won't be taking coins in the first place.


This is the ball counter lit with LED's controlled by my counting circuit.



Brad

[Ixliam]

Latest update. I have a working circuit!!! The counting circuit works just great and operates the original skeeball displays. I am using LED's instead of lights, just for ease of use and lower power consumption. I also got in my skeeball score rings. One thing about these is the larger rings have a 1" high STEEL ring around the base to keep it in shape, and instead of rubber bumpers to slow the balls down, they are V shaped pieces of metal. I will probably swap these out for rubber just to prevent wear. This set has metal plates with the numbers on them, which are over the old original ones, which faded and were blue as well. I haven't decided if I want to keep it this way or go with traditional black lettering.

I hooked everything up to my main computer using RandyT's KeyWiz and program and played a simple game of dropping the balls into the scoreboard while it sat by the computer here. Only thing Randy will need to add is a counter for a gutter ball. Right now, it counts only scored balls, so if you gutter a ball it won't count it as being thrown.

I wired my score ring switches as individual per score ring, instead of just being 10 points each. They are hit when the ball comes through the hole, and when the ball rolls down the ramp it goes underneath the remaining switches. For one, this will eliminate alot of wear on the switches as only the one scored will be depressed, instead of multiple switches in the case of hitting a 50.

Well, here are the pics - enjoy! I have to program my interface to work now


Main Score LED driver circuit (TTL Driven).










Closeup of V-shaped metal slowdown and steel base ring.

Brad

[Ixliam]

I played my first game(s) of skeeball last night for a couple of hours. I wrote a simple program to run the score and make sound effects, and with some more tweaking it should work well. Only problems I had were that if a ball went down the hole slow, like if it spiraled around the edge like water down the drain, sometimes it would hold the switch down too long and cause the game to double register. Most of it tends to be with the 10 ring, occasionally the 20. This is because with the other rings, the ball pretty much drops straight in.

This would not be a problem if you ran the switches so that each hit counted as 10 points, then it would hit them while rolling down. Mine are right underneath the hole, and hit them as they drop through. This allows for me to set individual sound effects per ring if I chose to.

It was a real blast to play, now I just need to add the final touches on it, tweak my software, and add on the netting cage which is being built (thanks to my dad who is a welder).


The reason the lights are dim/out on the right number is because I accidently toasted them while testing the circuit out on my PC. Since it always displays a 0, I wired them straight to the power... but forgot to add in the resistor to keep them from getting blown... OOPPS!! I now have 15 on order, so I will have a good bit extra in case one goes out.

Brad

[Chris]

Only problems I had were that if a ball went down the hole slow, like if it spiraled around the edge like water down the drain, sometimes it would hold the switch down too long and cause the game to double register. Most of it tends to be with the 10 ring, occasionally the 20. This is because with the other rings, the ball pretty much drops straight in.

Write a debounce into the code... once a switch registers, ignore it for the next 3 seconds or so.

--Chris

[Ixliam]

Yeah, it was late last night when I was working on it, so I wasn't in the right frame of mind to start modding the code too much. I just need it to ignore any other hits at least till the ball drops through, which is about the time limit it takes it to play the sound and send the TTL pulses to the score display.

BTW, are there any free C/C++ compilers for DOS ? I've got Borland's but it wants the executable to run under windows (could be the parallel port driver I am using since it pulls on that DLL file). I'd love to fit everything on a floppy/flash drive, but Windows is just a bit much for as simple of a program as this is. I run a mud and code there using the C++ compiler built into Linux to handle all my coding, so I'm not familar with what is out there for the dos/windows environment. I could possibly do it in Qbasic, but the last basic I touched still had line numbers, and that was back around 1986.

Brad

[RayB]

Write a debounce into the code... once a switch registers, ignore it for the next 3 seconds or so.

The proper way to handle this is to wait for the switch to turn off. Right now, he's treating the button as a Flag rather than a toggle. His code sees the Flag is "true" and proceeds to award another score again. The code should be waiting for the Flag to clear (false) before going back to waiting for "true".

[Chris]

BTW, are there any free C/C++ compilers for DOS ?

DJGPP.

[Chris]

Write a debounce into the code... once a switch registers, ignore it for the next 3 seconds or so.

The proper way to handle this is to wait for the switch to turn off. Right now, he's treating the button as a Flag rather than a toggle. His code sees the Flag is "true" and proceeds to award another score again. The code should be waiting for the Flag to clear (false) before going back to waiting for "true".

Unless the switch is indeed bouncing.  Ignoring inputs for a couple of seconds will solve both problems.

[RayB]

Unless the switch is indeed bouncing.

[Ixliam]

Its not bouncing, its that the ball takes a bit to go down, so it is holding down the button for longer than it needs to be, same thing if you held it down on the keyboard.

I saw online someone had posted about clearing the keyboard buffer out before going further, so mine would look something like..

if(kbhit){
   ch=getch();
   while(getch() != ch)
   switch(ch)
      case 'a': printf("10 point ring.").....etc etc.
 
Gonna try that to get it to prevent extended runs, and thanks for the pointer on the gnuc++ style C compiler.

Brad

[Chris]

Its not bouncing, its that the ball takes a bit to go down, so it is holding down the button for longer than it needs to be, same thing if you held it down on the keyboard.

RayB 1, Chris 0. 

[RayB]

Its not bouncing, its that the ball takes a bit to go down, so it is holding down the button for longer than it needs to be, same thing if you held it down on the keyboard.

RayB 1, Chris 0.

[Ixliam]

I'll give Chris the extra 5 point bonus 

I downloaded DJGPP and Allegro, and converted the code over from some of the silly Borland items. Allegro is the real key, with it being able to control the keyboard. I was able to tell it to ignore repeated keys and then I cleared the buffer just for grins. I could leave a weight on the button now and it wouldn't repeat. Thanks so much both of you for putting me on the right track. I have the WAV files playing now as well as my keyboard issue fixed.

My LED's and some other parts are coming in tomorrow, so this weekend I will probably finish it up save for the netting cage. My dad can't finish it before he has surgery on Friday, so it will get finished when he gets back on his feet.  I'll just have to aim well. The other parts should let me automate the ball release by adding in a solnoid to pull the release lever down, so then you would just push the front button, the score would reset and the balls release.

Here's what that code piece looks like now..


install_keyboard();
set_keyboard_rate(0,0);
/--- trim ---/
roll = readkey();
switch(roll)
{
     case 353: printf("         Ring 10\n");
                     SndFx = load_wav("10ring.wav");
                     play_sample(SndFx, 255, 128, 1000, 0);
                     (outportb)(0x378,0x01); //Score Count
                     (outportb)(0x378,0x00);
                     skbscore += 10;
                     clear_keybuf();
                     break;


Brad

[Pyro]

This project just keeps looking better and better. Great job!

I was looking at the latest picture you posted and got to thinking that some tee moulding would look great on the inside of the holes of the target. The only thing that would prevent that from working would be if there wasn't enough clearance for the balls to pass through after the addition of the tee moulding.

Anyway, congrats on a job well done.

Pyro

[Ixliam]

T-molding on the holes... not a bad idea. It would have no problem fitting, as those are 4" holes and the skeeballs are 3" diameter.

Brad

[Chris]

I'll give Chris the extra 5 point bonus

[toadman]

Its not bouncing, its that the ball takes a bit to go down, so it is holding down the button for longer than it needs to be, same thing if you held it down on the keyboard.

Isn't that what a momentary contact switch is for? Would that fix your problem without having to have a code hack?

[Chris]

Its not bouncing, its that the ball takes a bit to go down, so it is holding down the button for longer than it needs to be, same thing if you held it down on the keyboard.

Isn't that what a momentary contact switch is for? Would that fix your problem without having to have a code hack?

"Momentary contact" means that once the pressure on the switch is released, the switch opens, as opposed to a toggle switch which is pressed once to activate and again to release.  But as long as the switch is held down, the circuit is closed and Windows' key repeat kicks in.

Now that he's using Allegro, though, he can use the key[] array to read keys which does not use the key repeat feature.  It also has the benefit of being able to read multiple keys at once in case two balls are thrown and trip two different switches at the same time.

[Ixliam]

Momentary contact is like your arcade buttons. Long as you hold it down, it makes contact. Normal contact is like a lightswitch, you put it in a certain position, it stays there till you switch it to something else.

Had I used transistors connected to the switches then directly to the TTL circuit, there would not be a problem, since in order to count the "pulse" must be +5V then 0V. Since I wanted an easy way to handle sound and programming, I'm using an old Pentium (1) 180mhz machine with 16mb ram to handle it. Allegro handles it very well, and the program is very simple when you think about it. At the basic stage it takes a keypress, sends out the pulses to run the score or ballcount circuits, then plays a sound according to the ring you hit. There are no graphics or anything like that at all, but if you wanted that to use with a pc monitor RandyT's Keywiz and associated program will do all of that.

I'm just waiting on RandyT to start building a skeeball.

Chris - Mine really isn't an encoder as it is a parallel port interface circuit. Two data lines run the ballcount and score, which leave 10 others available to run anything else. Some will run relays to fire off the ball release mechanism, lights, flashers, etc. Plenty to work with there.

Brad

[jfunk]

You are going to post some video (with sound) of this in action when all is said and done, right?? 

[Ixliam]

No video camera.. I'm kinda like Peale, I never watch TV.. live in the dark ages.

I ended up having to make some adjustments to it with the switch issue. Part of the problem was the held contact, part of it was a bounce. Both of those occured more on the "slow" balls down towards the bottom (prob why skeeball went to all optical switches). I rearranged the switches to work in a cascade, and put a screw that the spring trip wire hits on return to stop some of the bouncing. But what worked best was careful positioning of the switch so that the ball hit it, but didn't hit it 100%. You wanted the balls to contact it enough to trigger the switch, but not pull the switch all the way down. Mine are now arranged like the ones in typical machines, where each is worth 10 points. Not as ideal as I would have liked it, but that is what works (maybe that is why skeeball put theirs that way). I will probably make them all optical at some point, but not right now.

In any case, it is playing and scoring correctly now. The program size is VERY small now, but works great. I converted the front switch which just reset the score (by disconnecting the reset chip line from ground) to a 12v DPDT relay. With this now, the switch throws 12V to the relay, which resets the scoreboard and eventyally will open the ball release. Looks like I will end up using a hobby motor and a sprocket/chain pull down the ball release, I think that will be the best method.

Brad

[RandyT]

Momentary contact is like your arcade buttons. Long as you hold it down, it makes contact. Normal contact is like a lightswitch, you put it in a certain position, it stays there till you switch it to something else.

Had I used transistors connected to the switches then directly to the TTL circuit, there would not be a problem, since in order to count the "pulse" must be +5V then 0V. Since I wanted an easy way to handle sound and programming, I'm using an old Pentium (1) 180mhz machine with 16mb ram to handle it. Allegro handles it very well, and the program is very simple when you think about it. At the basic stage it takes a keypress, sends out the pulses to run the score or ballcount circuits, then plays a sound according to the ring you hit. There are no graphics or anything like that at all, but if you wanted that to use with a pc monitor RandyT's Keywiz and associated program will do all of that.

The machine looks great, Brad!  So did you end up using the KeyWiz to send the keypresses to your software or hack a keyboard? 

Just wanted to make a couple of comments on your bounce issue:

The most probable reason Skeeball went to optical sensors is maintenance.  Microswitches are mechanical devices and like all things mechanical, they wear out.  When you consider the original arrangement of the switches where when a 50 point ring was hit, each of the switches were hit  to count the score up, it's not hard to guess the failure rate.  In fact, you can pretty much guarantee that the the ball counter, 10 and 20 switches would be the first to fail, as these would get the most action.

The key, I believe, is going to lie in finding a method to restrict the balls' motion to one plane of movement.  Some things that might help would be speed reducing/guiding baffles, tight channels (like the V-groove used by Skeeball) or even PVC pipe that is slightly larger than the ball diameter.  Once you achieve smooth movement of the balls, it should be simple to tweak the microswitches so they do what you want.

You might also want to consider a switch with a stiffer actuation style...perhaps more of a "roller" or even the "blade" actuator like the ones used on a "Super" or X-arcade joystick, rather than the very sensitive ones used for coin switches.

I'm just waiting on RandyT to start building a skeeball.

Heh.  I always have a lot of "irons in the fire", but I actually have a 10' long,  "knock-down" or "flat-pack" style machine currently at about 90% completion in CAD.  My goal won't be to duplicate the appearance of the original (hopefully that can be improved on a little for a home game-room), only the playing experience....and also the ability to be built from a kit or simple plans.  The problem is, a machine that large gets very heavy very quickly, even when every possible optimization is considered, so even a parts kit would need to be palletized and delivered by freight truck.

But, I expect to build at least one for my own use,  even if not until Spring hits.

RandyT

[JackTucky]

Ixliam:

How does the play "feel"?  Could you play this constantly at home for a year, then go out to the arcade and kill 'em dead with tickets?  Get tons of free spider rings and erasers?

Art

[bioart]

Oh, my wife would let me move and build one just for her... now we just need to save enough to move

Art

[Ixliam]

RandyT: I am using the Keywiz encoder on the machine. I do understand the whole weight issue, it is pretty heavy. I am able to move both pieces myself, but I would put the weight at around 300lbs or so. That's just a guess.  A home version that did not want to duplicate the machine could be done a good bit easier. A simple under the ramp ball return via PVC pipe or straight ramp would be easier than an automated ball return/release like I am working on. Main thing is the ramp and the targets, and depending on what the person wanted, a skeeball-like appearance. Even if the weight was minor, you still have a large amount of space eat up with one of these.  I did think about the roller style switches, but went with what I saw on the older skeeball machines. But, eventually I will go to an optical circuit.

I don't know how much of a market there would be for a kit, since the shipping would be almost the same as shipping an entire arcade game, which would then drive up the cost to almost what a used skeeball would run. Plans would be better, and I do plan on putting mine online along with a website, possibly even selling the scoreboard circuit if someone wanted to go that route. In either case, those things still take up some significant floorspace.

Art: Play-wise, it feels like the real thing. Only thing better will be when I finsgh up the ball-release mechanism to be a one button thing. Right now I push a button to reset the score, and pull a lever to release the balls. This is similar to some of the old ones I played, but I'd rather have a one button system. I think you could get your skill level up then go to an arcade and smoke them. Each machine will play a slight bit different just due to wear and quirks in it, but I would bet after a few rolls you could get it nailed down and walk away with some nice prizes. I play just as well on mine as I do on the real one (i.e.l I kinda suck) but I do have alot of fun at it.

Brad

[Ixliam]

Here is the source code for the program just for the record

Code: [Select]

/* Roller-Ball PC Interface
 * compiled with Borland C++ version 5.22 under Windows XP Pro
 * Copyright (c) 2005 by Brad P. Wilson, Austell GA - USA
 */

#include <stdio.h>
#include <pc.h>
#include <bios.h>
#include <conio.h>
#include <unistd.h>
#include <allegro.h>

#define DELAY  3000000 // Increase to slow down score counting

void delay(void);

int main(void)
{

if (allegro_init()) {
    allegro_message("Cannot initalize Allegro.\n");
    return 1;
  }

install_timer();

if(install_sound(DIGI_AUTODETECT, MIDI_AUTODETECT, NULL)) {
  allegro_message("Sound Error: %s", allegro_error);
  return 1;
}

set_volume(255, 255); //digital and music to max levels

install_keyboard();
set_keyboard_rate(0,0);

    int roll;
    int ball=0;
    int skbscore=0;

    printf("------------------------------------------\n");
    printf("- Brad Wilson's Roller Ball PC Interface -\n");
    printf("------------------------------------------\n");

/*Initialize Skeeball**/

//   0x00 ALL OFF
//   0x01 DS0 ON
//   0x04 DS2 ON
//   0x05 DS0 & DS2 ON

    (outportb)(0x378,0x00); //Everything off

    bool score1 = false;
    bool score2 = false;
    bool score3 = false;
    int bkey=0;
    SAMPLE *SndFx;

    do
    {
        roll = readkey();
printf("Key - %d\n",roll);
        switch(roll)
            {
            case 353: printf("         Ring 10\n");
SndFx = load_wav("10ring.wav"); // or .voc
play_sample(SndFx, 255, 128, 1000, 0);
    (outportb)(0x378,0x01); //Score Count
    (outportb)(0x378,0x00);
skbscore += 10;
                                        clear_keybuf();
            break;

            case 4979: printf("         Ring 20\n");
SndFx = load_wav("20ring.wav"); // or .voc
play_sample(SndFx, 255, 128, 1000, 0);
    (outportb)(0x378,0x01); //Score Count
    (outportb)(0x378,0x00);
delay();
    (outportb)(0x378,0x01); //Score Count
    (outportb)(0x378,0x00);
skbscore += 20;
            break;

            case 4465: printf("         Ring 30\n");
SndFx = load_wav("30ring.wav"); // or .voc
play_sample(SndFx, 255, 128, 1000, 0);     (outportb)(0x378,0x00);
    (outportb)(0x378,0x01); //Score Count
    (outportb)(0x378,0x00);
delay();
    (outportb)(0x378,0x01); //Score Count
    (outportb)(0x378,0x00);
delay();
    (outportb)(0x378,0x01); //Score Count
    (outportb)(0x378,0x00);
skbscore += 30;
            break;

            case 6007: printf("         Ring 40\n");
SndFx = load_wav("40ring.wav"); // or .voc
play_sample(SndFx, 255, 128, 1000, 0);     (outportb)(0x378,0x00);
    (outportb)(0x378,0x01); //Score Count
    (outportb)(0x378,0x00);
delay();
    (outportb)(0x378,0x01); //Score Count
    (outportb)(0x378,0x00);
delay();
    (outportb)(0x378,0x01); //Score Count
    (outportb)(0x378,0x00);
delay();
    (outportb)(0x378,0x01); //Score Count
    (outportb)(0x378,0x00);
skbscore += 40;
            break;

            case 2409: printf("         Ring 50\n");
SndFx = load_wav("50ring.wav"); // or .voc
play_sample(SndFx, 255, 128, 1000, 0);
    (outportb)(0x378,0x01); //Score Count
    (outportb)(0x378,0x00);
delay();
    (outportb)(0x378,0x01); //Score Count
    (outportb)(0x378,0x00);
delay();
    (outportb)(0x378,0x01); //Score Count
    (outportb)(0x378,0x00);
delay();
    (outportb)(0x378,0x01); //Score Count
    (outportb)(0x378,0x00);
delay();
    (outportb)(0x378,0x01); //Score Count
    (outportb)(0x378,0x00);
skbscore += 50;
            break;

            case 2666: printf("         Ball Count\n");
    // PlaySound("gutter.wav", NULL, SND_ASYNC);
    (outportb)(0x378,0x04); //Ball Count
    (outportb)(0x378,0x00);
ball +=1;
            break;

            case 5750: printf("Program Exit.\n");
            break;

            default: break;
            }

if(skbscore >= 240 && score1 == false)
{
//PlaySound("240score.wav", NULL, SND_ASYNC);
SndFx = load_wav("240score.wav"); // or .voc
play_sample(SndFx, 255, 128, 1000, 0);
score1 = true;
}
if(skbscore >= 450 && score2 == false)
{
SndFx = load_wav("450score.wav"); // or .voc
play_sample(SndFx, 255, 128, 1000, 0);
score2 = true;
}
if(skbscore >= 900 && score3 == false)
{
//PlaySound("900score.wav", NULL, SND_ASYNC);
score3 = true;
}
if(ball == 9)
{
// PlaySound("gameover.wav", NULL, SND_ASYNC);
ball = 1;
skbscore = 0;
score1 = false;
score2 = false;
score3 = false;
        }

printf("Score: %d", skbscore);
printf("     Ball: %d\n", ball);
    }
    while(roll != 5750); // Key M is EXIT - Switch to start later.

    (outportb)(0x378,0x00);
    destroy_sample(SndFx);
    remove_keyboard();
    allegro_exit();
    return 0;
}

void delay( void )
{
     long x;
     for ( x = 0; x < DELAY; x++ );
}

Brad

[Bumblebounces]

Wanted to give your thread a bump and ask some questions.  I followed your progress in January with great intrest as I have a love for Skee Ball.  Unfortunately, I don't really have room for one in my game room but I am always hopeful that I will someday have a place (if I can just get the air hockey that no one uses out of here, I could do it). 

Anyway, I have the wood working skills and tools to accomplish the goal of building but I am a little short on the code writing and circuit building you did in your project for the scoring.  Was wondering if you would share a little more detail on how you implemented the code you posted and if you plan to let the circuit out as you hinted below?

I do plan on putting mine online along with a website, possibly even selling the scoreboard circuit if someone wanted to go that route.

At this point, this is just a research venture to see if it's a project that is feasable for me to complete.  I know I could do the wood and cab parts of it and I am pretty handy with wiring and even a little bit of simple electronic circuits but the code is a total mystery. 

Also, I was wondering how the net came out and have you ever gotten your "one button start" solenoid/pullchain ball release going?  Some pics of the totally finished project would be great.

Thanks

Bumble

[Onji]

How the heck did this project end? updates just stopped

[lwkett]

Sorry to necro this thread, but does anyone have that .zip file that has brad's original files in them?

I'm looking for dimensions to build my own skeeball this summer, and was hoping to start from somewhere other than the local arcade..

thanks!

Lance

[Virgil Tracy]

Sorry to necro this thread, but does anyone have that .zip file that has brad's original files in them?

I'm looking for dimensions to build my own skeeball this summer, and was hoping to start from somewhere other than the local arcade..

thanks!

Lance

A copy for me too please

[missioncontrol]

ahhh man the photos are all gone. I was planning on showing this to a friend who is considering building a skeeball....

[shardian]

...and that is why you are supposed to upload the photos to the site...

This thread did kick ass. Too bad all of the pics are gone.

[missioncontrol]

temp holding cell of what pictures I have obtained so far. There are still a few I'm trying to get via the wayback machine.

http://s105.photobucket.com/albums/m221/lost_toolz/test/?start=0

hopefully we can get them into the proper order of the thread somehow....

[saint]

Thread fixed.  A few missing still sadly, and no .zip file.

edit - thanks to MissionControl for hunting down the pix!

[norax]

Anyone have the dimensions or plans for this project? Sadly the zip file in the first post seems to be missing. If anyone has a copy of the zip I'd be glad to host it.

[ARTIFACT]

This is AMAZING! wow...

[lamboman]

Very impressive.

Does anyone have the measurements for this cabinet / runway / ramp?...Check out my thread in Arcade misc. I am going to attempt this and hopefully document it on the site. Thanks,

[Ixliam]

Sorry its been so long since I've done any update on this. Shortly after I finished it, I ended up moving to Chicago right as winter hit. After living there for about 1.5 years, I returned home to Georgia. We were in a small home with no room for the cabinet, so the ramp part was placed in our home standing up, and the scoreboard part was put outside in a shed. Unfortunatley the shed was not 100% waterproof and it took significant water damage, so when we returned home I did not have room to pack it all into a POD unit, so the ramp (the hard part) was taken and the cabinet was taken away by the sanitation dept. Needless to say I haven't done too much with it since then.

Now that I have a new home I do plan on setting up a game room downstairs with an updated skeeball machine and the mame cabinet, but just haven't had time. I do have the DWG files on this burned onto DVD, so its just a matter of tracking it down and then putting it on somewhere like fileshare for everyone to pull from if they want to.

I never got the switches working correctly, and due to the move I did not get into trying to convert the switches to an optical style rather than the spring switches. It wasn't a problem with the code but rather of the spring switches bouncing and causing it to count as multiple hits. I'm not sure how the actual machine did it, but its probably why the newer machines have gone to optical switches instead.

Brad

[bfauska]

Welcome back, I recently read this entire thread only to be bummed out that you disappeared before finishing. It'll be great to see the project finally on it's feet again when you get back around to it.

 

[VXAgent]

I started one of these.  Due to the lack of plans that I could find I did my own with google sketch up

Hope this helps someone.

[ShimmyAndGershon]

My 15 year old son Shimmy has gotten pretty far in building a Skeeball machine based on the pictures Ixliam and unclet posted, as well as the 3-D Google Sketch Up plans by VXAgent. He has built the marquee and target area (although he has not yet made the holes for the balls to fall through), and has built the ball return area. Half of the width of the S-curved bump is also finished, but no ramp yet. This past week he put in a pull string to release the 9 balls down the ball return. It uses bungee cord like Ixliam's to raise the gate again after you finish releasing the balls. Attached are pictures.

I promised to help him with the electronics. We bought a bunch of 4-inch high 7-segment LEDs that require 11 volts and 5-10mA to turn on. We are planning on using the sensors and microcontroller from the Vex Robotics starter robot kit. I am still wondering how to breadboard output lines coming from the Vex microcontroller to drive the four LED displays for the score and balls-used. I can write the program for the microcontroller to output 0 or 5 volts on 7 lines for each of the 7 segments of an LED, and have 4 additional lines to enable the seven lines for each of the LEDs. Alternatively, and preferably, I could output 4 lines for the digit in binary, and 4 lines for each LED. This would give me more input lines on the microcontroller for sensing balls going through a target hole. Anybody know of standard IC chips that can help with this job? I am trying to minimize components and wiring. I was hoping to get my son interested in electronics and programming, but he is happy to do the mechanical/construction side, and leave electronics/programming to me.

We are also still unsure on what to use for the white circles around the target holes. skeeball.com wanted too much money for their rubber. We have already spent enough money on the balls from them, LEDs, and wood. My son is thinking of cutting open plastic pipe.

[RandyT]

We are also still unsure on what to use for the white circles around the target holes. skeeball.com wanted too much money for their rubber. We have already spent enough money on the balls from them, LEDs, and wood. My son is thinking of cutting open plastic pipe.

Check out some white vinyl "mopboard" at your local home store.  If it's too thin for you, you can glue them back to back, but single thickness should do the trick.

RandyT

[samej71]

We are also still unsure on what to use for the white circles around the target holes. skeeball.com wanted too much money for their rubber. We have already spent enough money on the balls from them, LEDs, and wood. My son is thinking of cutting open plastic pipe.

Check out this post in a different DIY Skeeball thread. He used "4” white rubber wall base for the rings (“Baby’s Breath” is the Flexco off-white color description)".

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=91011.msg970658#msg970658

I originally was going to use an arduino clone and some 6.5" 7-segment LEDs, but after seeing all the game variations using the computer and LCD screen I changed my mind and I'm going that route. I even picked up some WOOT OFF lights to mount on top.   I haven't settled on an interface board. I originally was leaning toward RandyT's LedWiz+GP but I'm having trouble getting information about it to determine if what I want to try to interface with it will work not. So, now I'm not sure if I want that or something from Ultimarc or use the arduino to interface (there are some really cheap versions that will work, $25-$35 depending on the feature set).

Anyhow, you might want to look at ThePurpleStuff's whole thread. There are a lot of good ideas in it.

Good luck with your build!

--James

[ShimmyAndGershon]

Thanks RandyT and samej71 for the mopboard/baseboard vinyl idea. Shimmy and I went to the biggest hardware store in town and looked at the different vinyl/plastic mopboards available. Most were too thin to handle the ball abuse, probably even after doubling. But they were much cheaper than skeeball's rubber. We found one that was stiff enough, but it had a wavy top. Another was stiff enough, but not high enough. Next stop will be a gardening store, as the hedging plastics are generally stiffer. A carpeting store might have the best choice. We'll see.

My son Shimmy is still unsure how wide and how deep the gutter should be. We will be experimenting hopefully this week with placing a sensor in the gutter and attaching it to the microprocessor for the ball count.

Anyone have the exact dimensions on the gutter (gap below the target area for balls with no points)? unclet?

Google helped me find IC chips to interface the Vex Robotics microprocessor to our 3-inch LEDs (its not 4-inch, sorry). A 7447 chip for each LED looks able to handle the sink current from each LED segment. I still need to look up if the VEX microcontroller can supply exactly 5-volt output lines as BCD digits, even if the microprocessor is driven by a 12 volt power supply.

Thanks also for the link to the other DIY skeeball. The idea of having an LED light up a target for a few seconds for extra points is great. It should be straightforward to code that into the microprocessor. Should we use lighting-strength LEDs for lighting up a target? Place them inside the target hole?

[samej71]

I know you mentioned you already had some hardware you are wanting to use for this, but if the cost of the parts starts to add up to $40 you might want to consider an Arduino-like microcontroller. The ATMega128 can be found for as little at $39 w/free shipping on ebay. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270562834281#ht_992wt_1165  Like I mentioned in the last post, there are some cheaper clone boards (freeduino, perhaps) that were even cheaper.

It has 12 PWM connections (could be used for 4 individual RGB leds/led banks, or ), 36 Digital I/O (3 digits * 7 segments = 21, 6 for ball sensors, and a handful left over for other lights/buttons), and 16 analog inputs for whatever you wanted. They're easily programmed via a computer, you write your program, connect the board via USB which appears as a thumb drive, and then copy the compiled program to drive. I've not done it personally, but have heard good things about it.

If you scan this thread and the other one I pointed out, there have been some "blueprints" drawn up by the awesome UncleT with measurements. They have been the de-facto standard the DIY skees here have been based off of. I think the images are also available on his website, I believe. He's a great guy and I bet if you're unable to find the information in what is already posted, if you email or PM him I'm sure he'll be glad to help out. I did a quick search, and he does have that info posted. A page of photos is here http://unclet.arcadecontrols.com/SkeeBall/SkeeballPics1.html and the one with the information you'll need to determine the gutter size is  http://unclet.arcadecontrols.com/SkeeBall/pics1/023-SkeeBall.jpg

I've read the "real" skeeball material for the rings is made from the same material as the whitewall part of whitewall tires by Goodyear. Incidentally, you can get real Skeeball rings from Happ, but they're not cheap. You need to be careful about picking a material that is too tough--it might not withstand the stress of repeated ball impacts and crack, or even worse take some chunks out of the balls.

Good luck in your search. Please let us know what you end up picking out and and how well it works for you.

--James

[unclet]

I would recommend looking for an arcade vendor in your area who has a broekn old skeeball machine and then buy the target area (with white rings) for $20 or $30 only.   The white rings clean up nicely and they will withstand the pounding of the wooden balls.

[Krahsloop]

Sorry its been so long since I've done any update on this. Shortly after I finished it, I ended up moving to Chicago right as winter hit. After living there for about 1.5 years, I returned home to Georgia. We were in a small home with no room for the cabinet, so the ramp part was placed in our home standing up, and the scoreboard part was put outside in a shed. Unfortunatley the shed was not 100% waterproof and it took significant water damage, so when we returned home I did not have room to pack it all into a POD unit, so the ramp (the hard part) was taken and the cabinet was taken away by the sanitation dept. Needless to say I haven't done too much with it since then.

Now that I have a new home I do plan on setting up a game room downstairs with an updated skeeball machine and the mame cabinet, but just haven't had time. I do have the DWG files on this burned onto DVD, so its just a matter of tracking it down and then putting it on somewhere like fileshare for everyone to pull from if they want to.

I never got the switches working correctly, and due to the move I did not get into trying to convert the switches to an optical style rather than the spring switches. It wasn't a problem with the code but rather of the spring switches bouncing and causing it to count as multiple hits. I'm not sure how the actual machine did it, but its probably why the newer machines have gone to optical switches instead.

Brad

Hey Brad, are you still making stuff here in Georgia?

[Joeadamsactor]

Hey guys!  New to the forum.  I'm looking for a template for the curve.  I know this has been out there for years, just hoping someone has this.

[PL1]

Hey guys!  New to the forum.  I'm looking for a template for the curve.  I know this has been out there for years, just hoping someone has this.

Welcome aboard, Joeadamsactor.   

Unclet posted some excellent ramp template pictures with an L-square for scale reference.

Here's a fairly comprehensive list of BYOAC skeeball build threads -- the template pictures are in at least one of them.   

Nickels - Skee Ball V2.0
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,130545.0.html

Entropy42 - Skee Ball Restoration and Improvement
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,116309.msg1232320.html#msg1232320

Thatpurplestuff - That's how I roll!
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,91011.0.html

Jayhawk - Skee-ball Repro
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,55648.msg545673.html#msg545673

Ixliam - Skee-ball
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,29455.0/all.html

Ixliam - DIY Skeeball
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,29727.0.html


Scott

[Ixliam]

Just thought I would post an update that while I no longer have the skee ball machine (it was damaged/destroyed by weather/hurricane/water damage), the files for Autocad are around on backup here somewhere. Once I locate them I'll see about getting them to someone here  so they can go up for anyone to use. Glad to see a few others have built their own over the years. I never could quite get my counting mechanism to quite work well, as I would occasionally get a double count from the counter. Using an optical sensor probably would solve this issue is my guess, but that would require a bit of rework of my circuit. With things out now like Raspberry Pi, there's so much more you can do than there was 11 years ago when I built this thing.

Picture archive on imgr: https://imgur.com/a/AKeAmrb and attached below.

[rustymoose]

Does anyone have UncleT's ramp template? I've been sifting through the great builds out there and haven't been able to find working link yet.  My son and I are planning out the build right now.  Appreciate it!

[PL1]

Does anyone have UncleT's ramp template? I've been sifting through the great builds out there and haven't been able to find working link yet.  My son and I are planning out the build right now.  Appreciate it!

Check out pics 29 and 30.
http://unclet.arcadecontrols.com/SkeeBall/SkeeballPics1.html

I also saved the images that Nickels uploaded in this post, if he doesn't have a copy of them.
- If you scroll down in that thread, UncleT talks about his ramp template images and other useful info.   


Scott

[rustymoose]

Thank you Scott, appreciate it.  I copied the UncleT link into a new browser window and it worked.  The Nickels post is helpful too.  Appreciate it!