How many buttons??

[cdbrown]

Hi all,

Have received all the parts I have ordered (still waiting for a response from Happs but that's a different story) and am reconsidering my original button layout.

I am using the Ipac 4.

I had originally planned on having the 4-player panel with each player having credit, start and 8 player buttons.  This plus the joystick inputs makes up the 56 inputs for the ipac.  I got flamed some what about this idea due to the fact that mame doesn't support that amount (maybe they will in the future) but have decided I should rethink players 3 and 4 because the panel work out too big.  I had also thought about the possibility of wiring each player back to a playstation controller but I doubt that will happen, so...

should I just have 4 buttons for player 3 and 4, then I can use the 8 spare ipac inputs as mame controlls (esc, tab, etc) and how many of those should I use.  Which are quite important to have in your opinion.

Thanks for the help in advance.

Cheers
-cdbrown

[Minwah]

I've chosen to have Escape, Tab & 'P'ause.  I haven't built my cab yet tho so I don't know how this will work 'in reality'.

I certainly don't want to have any more than that tho, the less things for people to mess around with the better I think  

[Tiger-Heli]

I had originally planned on having the 4-player panel with each player having credit, start and 8 player buttons.  This plus the joystick inputs makes up the 56 inputs for the ipac.  I got flamed some what about this idea due to the fact that mame doesn't support that amount (maybe they will in the future) but have decided I should rethink players 3 and 4 because the panel work out too big.  I had also thought about the possibility of wiring each player back to a playstation controller but I doubt that will happen, so...
should I just have 4 buttons for player 3 and 4, then I can use the 8 spare ipac inputs as mame controlls (esc, tab, etc) and how many of those should I use.  Which are quite important to have in your opinion.
Thanks for the help in advance.
Cheers
-cdbrown

Hi Cdbrown, I'm probably one of the ones who flamed your original idea , but that wasn't the goal, it was meant as constructive advice to help you out  

First off, stating the obvious here:  In reading your post, I get the impression of "I'm getting this IPAC/4 and it supports 56 inputs, how can I make sure I use them all?"  This is backward.  Lay out the buttons you want and if you only need 40 inputs and have 16 unused, well okay, maybe some of those could add a dedicated 4-way joy at some point.  Or not, if you only end up using 40 inputs total, so what?


Also, it is your cab and has to do what you want it to do.  As far as my personal opinions:

I think eight button inputs for Player 1 and 2 is excessive.  I don't know of any arcade games that used more than six.  I would look into a seven button layout using six inputs like Sir Poonga recommends and like I cover here: http://www.fraggersxtreme.com/arcadepanels/faq.htm under "I'm not sold on the multiple panels, is there a recommended button layout for a single HotRod style controller?", basically a

1 2 3 4
4 5 6

layout.

For players 3 and 4, MAME only emulates 4 buttons, but there were a fair number of actual arcade games with 4-player, 6-button layouts, and it would be simple (but confusing), to write a MAME driver for one where the actual Player 3 button 5 and button 6 inputs were mapped to the MAME driver Player 1 Buttons 9 and 10, for example.  Or it is possible another emulator may support 4 players and 6 buttons each.

If it were me, I would keep the same

1 2 3 4
4 5 6
layout for players 3  and 4 also.

Doing this has also freed up 8 inputs as you recommended.  How to use them:  Four could be a dedicated 4-way or if you want to use mechanical rotaries with Druin's interface, 4 could be used here.

As far as MAME controls, look at what controls you use now, and which controls you would be bummed to have to use a keyboard to get to after your cab is built.

I agree with Minwah about wanting a dedicated Escape and Pause, if available.  Tab is useful also, although I'm not sure I would want it on a cab.  Some people recommend the Tilde ~, although personally (I'm still using a keyboard/gameport for MAME), I disabled it from the keyboard, because my son would accidentally hit it and then I wouldn't know what he had changed and what things used to be set at.

Other keys I use a fair amount are: F12 (screenshot) F11 (show Frames per second), F8 and F9 (increase/decrease) frameskip, although I personally wouldn't want these on a cab, but YMMV.

Good luck and just take these as suggestions.

[Minwah]

I wouldn't really bother with any functions to do with settings, as you can plug a keyboard for 1 day to setup your cab, then go back to playing...

I realise I've just contradicted myself, since I want a TAB key: my justification for this key is almost purely to make it easier to alter analog sensitivity controls after installing a new MAME (since the settings go back to default).  OK so you can do this in the day you spend with the keyboard setting up, but I find I always forget to setup the sensitivity on some game.

I suppose having a TAB key also gives you the option of reseting the game / adjusting dip switches etc.  ALL from 1 key, so I think it's worth it.  Perhaps hide it somewhere tho so your damn mates don't start changing things they shouldn't...  

[mtd]

On my old cab I hated having pause, reset, tab, etc. on the control panel.  
1) There is nothing more annoying then having player 2 accidently hit tab when he thinks that he is inserting another quarter.  
2) It was to tempting to press reset if I screwed up early in the game.  --- when I removed reset, I acctually started to enjoy the game more and my hi scores increased.  My highest score in Mr. Do is actually on a game when i lost a guy on board 7.
3) The J-pac and I-pac both have shift keys, so tab, pause, reset are always available if you need them.  With the shift key you really shouldn't need a single configuration button.  Plus if no one knows about the shift, then they will not be "playing" with any settings.

[Vesper]

On my old cab I hated having pause, reset, tab, etc. on the control panel.  
1) There is nothing more annoying then having player 2 accidently hit tab when he thinks that he is inserting another quarter.  
2) It was to tempting to press reset if I screwed up early in the game.  --- when I removed reset, I acctually started to enjoy the game more and my hi scores increased.  My highest score in Mr. Do is actually on a game when i lost a guy on board 7.
3) The J-pac and I-pac both have shift keys, so tab, pause, reset are always available if you need them.  With the shift key you really shouldn't need a single configuration button.  Plus if no one knows about the shift, then they will not be "playing" with any settings.

On my cabinet I just finished (need to post pics one of these days!)  I put Tab/Escape/Pause/Reset UNDER the control panel box.  There's no way to bump them and you have to reach under to press them.  Easy to get to, hidden from view, and they work perfect.    I only wanted "real" buttons on the top of the CP.  

- Mike

[hyiu]

if you're building your panel, and you MIGHT have a chance later on to hook this up to a psx or some other console game or fighting game, then I guess you should have 8 buttons for player 1 and 2.... because once you're setup and start playing, you might be willing to rewire, but I doubt you'll be willing to re-drill...  

if you want to save buttons, then save the 4 coin buttons, config Mame so that coin and start are the same... it works fine for me...

and for "menu" buttons, I would say tab, esc, pause, and reset.

it doesn't really matter what others say... if the cab will fit in your room, go big.... it doesn't matter if it has 100 buttons on it.... as long as when you're playing with it, things are not in your way and you can play comfortably....

I think once you're set with your final design, get a cardboard and make a prototype and have a feel for it.... I think that will definitely help....

hope it helps....
     

[Tiger-Heli]

if you're building your panel, and you MIGHT have a chance later on to hook this up to a psx or some other console game or fighting game, then I guess you should have 8 buttons for player 1 and 2.... because once you're setup and start playing, you might be willing to rewire, but I doubt you'll be willing to re-drill...  

I forgot consoles use 8 buttons, good point!!!

[Howard_Casto]

First off, most consoles + arcadce sticks=bleeh!!!

They don't play very well as the games aren't designed for such a layout. The one's that do play well are arcade ports, which only use a maximum of 2 players with 6 buttons anyway (or 4 players 3 buttons, like mame) , so unless you are really determined there isn't any reason to have 8 buttons on your panel.  

Also the seven button layout they suggested isn't the one most people use.  It's a bad layout imho.  

It should look like this.....
  456
  123
7

Please excuse the ascii art, but what I am getting at is a standard neogeo layout on the bottom row and a extra 3 at the top so that you also have the popular street fighter layout.  Many games that have 4 buttons have them in a row on their arcade contol panels and thus it is hard to play them without a row of 4.  This layout will do ya.  

Also I agree with tigers comments.  I really wanted to do the huge panel thing myself, but when I really sat down and thought about it, if you take into account the fact that several buttons are double wired.... (my 4way can share the inputs of my 8way stick, my pinball buttons are also my 7th p1 and p2 buttons, ect)  and that 4 player games rarely have more than 3 buttons per player, It turns out that I can pull a 4 player layout off with the standard ipac.  All I have to do is map all of the coin inputs to one button.  

Now also take into account that I HATE dedicated confiuration buttons on cabinets.  Real arcade machines don't have a "savestate" button so neither is my cp.  I take advantage of the ipac's shift function for all of my configuration needs.  

I hope that helps.  

Btw, don't mistake flaming with trying to get your piont across, I remember that thread..... I think we just felt that you weren't understanding what we were getting at and we were trying to save you some money.  

[hyiu]

actually... I would like to ask....

what are you planning to use as your display ?? Computer Mon ?? Arcade Mon ?? or TV ??

also... how many different consoles do you have ??

I think these questions will also help answer your questions on the control panel layout...

----------------

when I first design my cab, I was thinking more of a "complete entertainment" cab.... that will run Mame and consoles and mp3 player and have wireless network and can surf web and so on.....

but then, with surfing web, I need a computer mon (need hi res), and computer mon doesn't go with my consoles... (I only have psx and n64...)

so... I decided to drop the idea of hooking up the consoles to the cab.... (since I'm not planning to buy a upscan converter...)

so... my final layout is just 6 buttons on the cab... (SF style...)

but to compensate, I do have several joysticks around ready to be plugged into consoles....
so, I still will be able to play consoles with arcade controls...

-----------------

also... I would only partially agree to Howard's statement...
...most console games doesn't go too well with arcade controls... (I guess that's true for any game that needs analog control....)

but if the game's control is digital... I guess its more about personal preference.... there are still quite a few good ones.... esp... fighting games.... tekken series, VF series, or soul calibur....

-----------------

when it comes to decision time, ultimately... you'll have to decide....

some guys like to keep the panel clean and pull out the keyboard drawer when needed..... some guys might actually never want to pull the keyboard out and have everything mapped on the panel....

some guys mostly play by himself... but like me, I LOVE have friends come around and play against each other....

just think what's good for you.... what do you really want...
that's all it matters... cos we're the not ones using your cab... you are....

hope it helps....
 

[SirPoonga]

This plus the joystick inputs makes up the 56 inputs for the ipac.  I got flamed some what about this idea due to the fact that mame doesn't support that amount (maybe they will in the future) but have decided I should rethink players 3 and 4 because the panel work out too big.

What the person might have meant is what 3 and 4 player games use 6 buttons?

should I just have 4 buttons for player 3 and 4, then I can use the 8 spare ipac inputs as mame controlls (esc, tab, etc) and how many of those should I use.  Which are quite important to have in your opinion.

I just have pause and esc, and I mab my pause button as my shift key.

[Carsten Carlos]

I got myself a wireless keyboard & mouse - so never have to worry about dedicated buttons!
The only thing I'm still not clear of if I should have a dedicated ESC-button - not very authentic, but on the other hand I want this cab easy usable for everyone who enters it. If I'd do so, I'll try some hard-to-press button, so you don't accidently hit it.

[SirPoonga]

I got myself a wireless keyboard & mouse - so never have to worry about dedicated buttons!
The only thing I'm still not clear of if I should have a dedicated ESC-button - not very authentic, but on the other hand I want this cab easy usable for everyone who enters it. If I'd do so, I'll try some hard-to-press button, so you don't accidently hit it.

It would be authentic looking:)  Do it!
Look at my cabinet, it doesn't look that bad.  I have in the center of the shelf esc, power, pause.  Pause is nice for bath room breaks and a shift key for the ipac.  player1start is the worst thing the shift key could be.  especially if you make a minimalist CP with few extra buttons.  

Oh, you realize when I get graphics for my shelf It's not going to say Esc, it's going to say quite.   As my player1button1 won't say enter (yeah, mapping it to enter makes it easier for PC games too!) It will say Select in small print by it.

[Chris]

Oh, you realize when I get graphics for my shelf It's not going to say Esc, it's going to say quite.   As my player1button1 won't say enter (yeah, mapping it to enter makes it easier for PC games too!) It will say Select in small print by it.

My Tab, Pause, and Esc say Menu, Pause, and Exit.  My Enter does say Enter, though; in restrospect, I wish I had labelled it Select.

I had strongly considered hiding my Tab, Pause, and Esc buttons, but since the primary user of the cab is my 8-year old daughter and her friends, I needed the panel to be easy to use.  I should have probably put Tab inside the coin door, though, and just left Pause and Esc on the panel.

Incidentally, I don't have coin buttons on my cab.  I mounted switches behind the Coin Reject inserts on the coin door, so pushing in the Coin Rejects triggers a credit:



I also have a switch inside the coin door inline with these extra switches so I can turn off the coin reject buttons, requiring quarters; thus, there are also two buttons inside the coin door to add credits if necessary:


--Chris

[SirPoonga]

I had strongly considered hiding my Tab, Pause, and Esc buttons, but since the primary user of the cab is my 8-year old daughter and her friends, I needed the panel to be easy to use.  I should have probably put Tab inside the coin door, though, and just left Pause and Esc on the panel.

I have shift-p1b1 as tab.  I am going to have an instruction card with my shift combos on it.  I have shift p2b1 and p2b2 save and load.  I'm going to have friends over, like I want to keep hearing them ask how to use the machine:)

I wired up my coin door too, probably never get used though:)

[Carsten Carlos]

It would be authentic looking:)  Do it!
Look at my cabinet, it doesn't look that bad.  I have in the center of the shelf esc, power, pause.  Pause is nice for bath room breaks and a shift key for the ipac.  player1start is the worst thing the shift key could be.  especially if you make a minimalist CP with few extra buttons.

Yep, turned out very well! I'll have a look at some electronic catalogues if I could find some very special Exit-button, so it's not that easily mistaken for any other purpose.
Pause is indeed very helpful especially when you like drinking beer like me - but I'll hide this feature somewhere. The shift-key really can suck when playing Gauntlet, worst thing is the default ESC when both players enter, arrgh!

Incidentally, I don't have coin buttons on my cab.  I mounted switches behind the Coin Reject inserts on the coin door, so pushing in the Coin Rejects triggers a credit

I'll definitely do this, too - but also'll allow the coinmechs to work as a piggy bank.

[Chris]

I'll definitely do this, too - but also'll allow the coinmechs to work as a piggy bank.

My coin mechs work; in restrospect, I probably should have dispensed with the mechs and just put a straight chute between the coin slot and the coin box so it could bank any coin, not just quarters...

[cdbrown]

Thanks for all the tips guys.  TigerHeli and HC - I don't think you were the guys flaming me, it was someone else YELLING at me to do it their way, but not providing any info on why .

To answer some of the questions - will be using s-video tv which is hopefully around 25".  Having 3 control panels.
- a 4player with 1P and 2P as rotaries
- a 2player with 2 spinners, 2 t-stiks (for 4-way) and pinball buttons
-a 2player trackball panel
It will be used mainly for arcade games but will also serve as a jukebox (that's why I got logitech z560 or something like that)  My main aim is for the 4 player panel as i really enjoy the nba games and so do my friends (they can't wait for it to be built).  I have tried to set out my buttons to suit the position of my fingers so the rows have an arc in the.  I have all the buttons so I'm might just stick with the 8 per 1P and 2P for the time being (I haven't even layed it out full size).  Having that extra button will not take up any more room than the 7 button.

I won't need the 4-way on this panel as I will have it on another panel.  I will probably use some of the spare buttons as pause, esc and a shift key but might mount them somewhere else in the cab other than on the panel.  Maybe have them next to where I mount the speaker controls or somethign like that.

Again thanks for the help, I appreciate everyones opinion especially when it's explained and not forced down my throat.

Cheers
-cdbrown

[SirPoonga]

Oh, to add one to HC

It should look like this.....
 456
 123
7

You can use the new ctrlr files so for neogeo games it remap that to
 567
 234
1

[Tiger-Heli]

Also the seven button layout they suggested isn't the one most people use.  It's a bad layout imho.  

Hi Howard,

Couldn't resist responding to this . . .  We have a difference of opinion and you know what they say opinions are like . . .

I assume the bad layout "they" suggested that you are referring to is the

1 2 3 4
4 5 6

layout that "I" suggested earlier in the thread?

It should look like this.....
  456
  123
7

Ok, that's the standard HotRod layout.  (Oops, I said the "H" word, wasn't trying to make you mad, but that's what you have there.)  The main thing that bothers me (will cover the others below) are that you are using 7 inputs for it.  Button 7 above will never be used for street fighter.  Buttons 4 5 and 6 above will never be used for Neo Geo.  We both agree no games require seven inputs.  Why not have button 7 share one of the top row inputs?

Please excuse the ascii art, but what I am getting at is a standard neogeo layout on the bottom row and a extra 3 at the top so that you also have the popular street fighter layout.  Many games that have 4 buttons have them in a row on their arcade contol panels and thus it is hard to play them without a row of 4.  This layout will do ya.

Ok, the thing that HACKS ME OFF here is you ignore similarities in our designs to say how yours is better.  Look at my design again, you have the Street Fighter layout.  And the repeated 4 button on the top row gives you a row of 4 as you recommend above.

The advantage I see to my design over yours is that mine works for games like Stargate where you need four buttons on the right hand, plus the thumb on the same hand, which is difficult to hit with your control layout.  As I said, though, the "H" word and X-arcade both run something similar to yours, so you might be on to something . . .  (Oops, did it again, sorry)      

BTW, I recommended this as a general comment, but it's not what I plan to use, FWIW. . .

I'm making desktop controls.   The main panel will use this layout:

        5 6
    4
 3   2
   1

What I like about this for classic games is I have 1 and 2 in the standard positions for 2-button games.  4, 5, 6 for 3-button games like GunSmoke.  3, 4, 5, 6, in an easy spacing for four button games like StarGate.  The diamond pattern for direction control if I want to "cheat" in Frogger, for example.

Of course, this doesn't work for Street Fighter, so I have a different panel with the SF standard layout.  And as you say below, the configurations match enough, that I can use the 2 panels together for 4-player 2-button games.

Now also take into account that I HATE dedicated confiuration buttons on cabinets.  Real arcade machines don't have a "savestate" button so neither is my cp.  I take advantage of the ipac's shift function for all of my configuration needs.

Actually, I am NOT a big fan of the I-PAC's shift function.  Not that I would do away with it, if Andy can offer it I appreciate having the capability, but I gave up one of my I-PAC dedicated inputs to have a button mapped to pause on the panel.  Why?  Because when I've been playing a game for 25 minutes and I'm on the 15th level with 5 ships left, and something urgent happens, I don't want to try to remember: "Ok, it's 1P Start and then Joystick Left, or was it Down, or maybe it's button 1?"

Also, I didn't have another dedicated input to give up for a dedicated escape, but I have heard too many horror stories of games ending because both players pressed start at the same time.  I will see how it works out for me, haven't built my panels yet, but I can easily see myself mapping that to something else.

Btw, don't mistake flaming with trying to get your piont across,

Good point, and this wasn't flaming toward you either Howard, we just had some differences of opinion that I wanted to point out.

[Tommy Boy]

I'm making desktop controls.   The main panel will use this layout:

        5 6
    4
 3   2
   1

What I like about this for classic games is I have 1 and 2 in the standard positions for 2-button games.  4, 5, 6 for 3-button games like GunSmoke.  3, 4, 5, 6, in an easy spacing for four button games like StarGate.  The diamond pattern for direction control if I want to "cheat" in Frogger, for example.

Of course, this doesn't work for Street Fighter, so I have a different panel with the SF standard layout.  And as you say below, the configurations match enough, that I can use the 2 panels together for 4-player 2-button games.

TH,

If you were to take basically your layout from above and add a seventh button, like so:

    4   5   6
  3   2  7
    1

then, I think you would have all of the advantages you spoke of plus you could play SF games with 3-4-5, 1-2-7.  And you could use 3-4-5-6 for Stargate and be able to hit 1 with your thumb.  You could also share an input between 6 and 7 without losing any functionality.

BTW, I know this is an ugly layout -- especially since ascii hoses up the angles -- imagine that 3-4-5-6 are ergonomically laid out for the four fingers of the right hand.  Then 1-2-7 would be laid out for the first three fingers (but slid down and to the right.)  In playing with a few paper mock-ups I think this could be made to work very comfortably -- but it *would* be ugly (i.e., non-symmetrical).
   

[SirPoonga]

I'm making desktop controls.   The main panel will use this layout:

        5 6
    4
 3   2
   1

What I like about this for classic games is I have 1 and 2 in the standard positions for 2-button games.  4, 5, 6 for 3-button games like GunSmoke.  3, 4, 5, 6, in an easy spacing for four button games like StarGate.  The diamond pattern for direction control if I want to "cheat" in Frogger, for example.

Of course, this doesn't work for Street Fighter, so I have a different panel with the SF standard layout.  And as you say below, the configurations match enough, that I can use the 2 panels together for 4-player 2-button games.

TH,

If you were to take basically your layout from above and add a seventh button, like so:

    4   5   6
  3   2  7
    1

then, I think you would have all of the advantages you spoke of plus you could play SF games with 3-4-5, 1-2-7.  And you could use 3-4-5-6 for Stargate and be able to hit 1 with your thumb.  You could also share an input between 6 and 7 without losing any functionality.

BTW, I know this is an ugly layout -- especially since ascii hoses up the angles -- imagine that 3-4-5-6 are ergonomically laid out for the four fingers of the right hand.  Then 1-2-7 would be laid out for the first three fingers (but slid down and to the right.)  In playing with a few paper mock-ups I think this could be made to work very comfortably -- but it *would* be ugly (i.e., non-symmetrical).
   

that's alot like what i said:)

Oh, to add one to HC

It should look like this.....
 456
 123
7

You can use the new ctrlr files so for neogeo games it remap that to
 567
 234
1

to go even further, you can use the mame hacks for ctrlr files on my site to remap ALL X button games (where X is a number).

[Tommy Boy]

hmmm...that would be pretty cool.  very cool actually.  I suppose the automatic mappings would be good for 90%+ of all games; then the rest could be manually tweaked.

[SirPoonga]

Yep, that's the way ctrlr files work, a heirarchy.  specific games always overide general ini files.

[Howard_Casto]

Also the seven button layout they suggested isn't the one most people use.  It's a bad layout imho.  

Hi Howard,

Couldn't resist responding to this . . .  We have a difference of opinion and you know what they say opinions are like . . .

I assume the bad layout "they" suggested that you are referring to is the

1 2 3 4
4 5 6

No this is a bad layout ergonomically speaking, not opinion wise...... I don't know if you are a fan of the neogeo fighters, but several of them require the use of all 4 buttons at once for certain special moves and the "charge" function.  The only way you can do that is to press all 4 buttons, each with a different finger.  I don't know how big your hands are but mine can't span a row of four buttons in a straight line comfortably.  

The curved design was created by snk to combat this problem and thus it is used in the hotrod, which was probably one of the few things they got right.  (Btw, they ripped the design off from some guy on this site, the orignal hotrod only had 6 buttons)  If you can pull off pressing all 4 at once, repeatedly and comfortably in that other layout more power to ya, my hands just aren't that big.    

Also the neogeo games, modern namco fighters and various other emulated games use this layout. After the streefighter craze of the 90's all of the newer fighters and arcade games in general, use this layout.  For me that is enough to justify that one extra button.   I also have my enter button mapped to it for player one, so it serves other purposes.

Also for those of you that were wondering.  "Why don't you just remap those 4 player games like an old snes pad (eg two rows of two)?"  Well because as I said before many of these games require you to press all the buttons at once.  Also the neogeo fighters require you to use button 2 and 3, or button 3 and 4 together alot.  Although definately not impossible in that fashion it feels rather akward, especially if you've played them in the arcade before.    

So that's my justification to why I don't like the layout you suggested.  Now if you put the 4th button curved and on the other side of the top row it might be ok, but then again you would then have to move the joystick un-naturally far away from the buttons so that wouldn't be good either.  You see this is why hotrod used my layout.  If they had put the extra button at the top row as you suggested it would have been kind of close  to player 2's side.  If it was put on the opposite side of the rows on the top row, either in a straight line, or in a curved fashion they would have had to move their buttons about two inches forward, making thier layout cramped again.  With the current design, the 7th button lays comfortably underneath the joystick's bottom-right corner, which saves space and feels very natural.  

All of these funky diamond designs you guys suggested would be great for an old school setup, but unless you don't want to play street fighters as they were meant to be played, it's farily useless.  Now the casual street fighter player might be able to use it, but that's not me, I'm a hardcore fighter fan.  To make a general purpose panel without the 2X3 layout would be a sin to me.    The reason old school games made such wacky cp designs was simply to draw crowds.  The graphics weren't much back then so a unique cabinet design was almost more important than the game itself in terms of getting the game noticed.  Although the layouts are functional and very ergonomic for taht particular game, they were very much specialized for that  game and wouldn't work well with any other.  

Diamond shapes aren't well suited for a general cp layout unless you plan on using your thumbs alot. (For multiple button presses on those 6 button games.)  Silly byoac'ers thumbs are for consoles!


Also regarding SirP's suggestion... I make the neogeo button the 7th button simply because i don't want it to be the first button by default.  I then make a neogeo.ini ctrlr file and remap the neogeo games as you suggested.  I've found this works best for me, but your mileage may vary.  

[Tiger-Heli]

No this is a bad layout ergonomically speaking, not opinion wise...... I don't know if you are a fan of the neogeo fighters, but several of them require the use of all 4 buttons at once for certain special moves and the "charge" function.  The only way you can do that is to press all 4 buttons, each with a different finger.  I don't know how big your hands are but mine can't span a row of four buttons in a straight line comfortably.

Ah, I see what you mean now, I rarely play any fighting games and when I play NG, I would use the curved 3 4 5 6 series on my diamond panel.  I can see how the straight line method could get awkward.  I'll update my FAQ page to fix this.

And I agree, the diamond shape won't work for SF, that's why my second panel has a more "conventional" layout.  

[Howard_Casto]

Cool... As I said, I'm a fighter freak, I notice these things.  Just don't ask me about trigger sticks or yokes or push/pull spinners.  Then I have no clue.

[mravett]

While I've been planning my control panel my wife pointed out an advantage to this layout :

              1 2 3
              4 5 6
            7

When you're not in a neo-geo game, the 7 button is separate enough to make a good coin button.  That way, I don't have to have extra "wasted" coin buttons that will be useless whenever I get around to putting in a coin door  (In NG games I'll have to map the "1" button to be the coin button.  Slightly hackish, but hopefully it won't be around too long...)

She's also making me use illuminated red, yellow, and green buttons for my
quit, pause and start/select buttons.

If I was really silly, I'd mount them vertically along the side of my monitor for extra traffic light action  

[mikenotbob]

If anyone decides to go with Pause buttons, or any type of other non-game playing buttons, I found the happ miniature momentary contact buttons work very well:

http://www.happcontrols.com/pushbuttons/49057700.htm

They're tiny, have a firm spring, and require a good amount of pressure to push down, so you don't have to worry about accidentally hitting it. With it's small shape, noone mistakes it for a gaming button.
 
I've actually placed the square button between my star & coin buttons, like this:

 /==\ X /==\
|    |   |     |
 \__/     \__/

The buttons are actually a lot closer together, and the 'X', the square button, just sits in the nicely in the notch that the tops of the circular buttons naturally carve out.  It's nice and convenient for each player to have their pause button, and unobtrusive to the design of the cp.

Also, I used a red button in the top center of my cp for escape. Again, an area and color where noone would mistake it's ungamely function. Next to my escape is a 'Tab' and 'enter' (rectangular momentary contect), for convenience.

I may have a few extra of those mini momentaries if you don't have enough $$ for the minimum happ order.  I think 2 white square and 1 red rectangular.  a few red rounds, too, but IMHO, the rounds look cheap as hell.  The others are of a nice, cp-worthy quality.

-mike

[madk]

I just use the shift functions that the i-pac features and that seems to work great.  No need for any extra keys on the cp.

[Aqualung]

While I've been planning my control panel my wife pointed out an advantage to this layout :

              1 2 3
              4 5 6
            7

I chose to use the same configuration, but I've thought before in using

123
4567

but after some testing with a spare piece of wood, it became not-as-ergonomic as I wanted And against everybody who uses your config and only use the 7th. button to play Neo Geo games, I'm going to play Konami's beat-em-ups with buttons 7 and 4.

I do have Esc, Tab, Enter and P on the CP, but very away from the action button.

Here it is: http://www.nightcap.hpg.com.br/controlpanel.jpg

It looks a bit weird because it is a beta sketch and the "7" buttons were added later. All action buttons were moved to the rightso I could fit the T-Stiks.

And please, don't worry about the metric measures.