Author Topic: controller for quadriplegic (Read 115995 times)

versapak · « **Reply #280 on:** January 30, 2005, 11:34:50 am »

Also, I just want to make clear, that ANY control button can be remapped to ANY other control button, as well as to the d-pad.

The analog sticks can't be remapped, but they can be inversed.

[EDIT]
Hmmmmmm

Seems this post, bumped us to a new page. See the last post on the prior page for the picture of the controllers inside's.

skallagrigg · « **Reply #281 on:** January 30, 2005, 01:37:35 pm »

Hi -

When you say the analogue sticks can be inversed, does this mean you can have the left stick functioning as the right stick, and vice versa?

Barrie
www.OneSwitch.org.uk

versapak · « **Reply #282 on:** January 30, 2005, 01:49:35 pm »

Nope

It just means that the up & down can be swapped on which ever stick you choose to swap it on. LEft stick will alwafs be left, and right will always be right.

Hiub1 · « **Reply #283 on:** January 30, 2005, 10:14:05 pm »

WOW that is some great info Versapak. Now, what you need to verify is if the pad has a single common ground. I.E. Any ground on any of the PCB's work with all the other buttons. If that is the case, then I think we found exactly what we need!

versapak · « **Reply #284 on:** January 30, 2005, 10:30:20 pm »

Will bust out the multimeter and get back to ya in a couple.

RetroJames · « **Reply #285 on:** January 30, 2005, 10:37:53 pm »

Quote from: Hiub1 on January 30, 2005, 10:14:05 pm

WOW that is some great info Versapak. Now, what you need to verify is if the pad has a single common ground. I.E. Any ground on any of the PCB's work with all the other buttons. If that is the case, then I think we found exactly what we need!

I am MOST impressed and have allocated a spot for an LED screen on the mockup...

versapak · « **Reply #286 on:** January 30, 2005, 11:08:37 pm »

hmmmmm

Well...

As usual, I didn't put my mutimeter away last time I used it, meaning the wife did.

This may take me some time to find, so it will either be later, after I can manage to find it, or tomorrow, after she wakes up.

versapak · « **Reply #287 on:** January 31, 2005, 12:34:29 pm »

I finally found the darn thing. I put it away in the drawer with all my controllers lol

Anyway...

They all do share a common ground.

[EDIT]
I edited the picture to show the common ground.

quadmasta · « **Reply #288 on:** January 31, 2005, 02:05:35 pm »

that FPS master PS2 controller for $22.50 plus shipping. http://www.nulime.com/product.php?productid=61463

Stingray · « **Reply #289 on:** January 31, 2005, 02:57:04 pm »

Quote from: quadmasta on January 31, 2005, 02:05:35 pm

that FPS master PS2 controller for $22.50 plus shipping. http://www.nulime.com/product.php?productid=61463

Out of stock.

-S

krick · « **Reply #290 on:** January 31, 2005, 04:34:19 pm »

Quote from: Stingray on January 31, 2005, 02:57:04 pm

Out of stock.

Just did a search, there's a few on eBay. One "buy-it-now".
http://search.ebay.com/fps-master

Amazon also has it...
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0001CNMB6/

RetroJames · « **Reply #291 on:** January 31, 2005, 11:43:18 pm »

Ok, here goes.

1. Note the select,start, etc buttons added in the center -

2. Obviously the shoulder button structure has been added.

RetroJames · « **Reply #292 on:** January 31, 2005, 11:44:26 pm »

RetroJames · « **Reply #293 on:** January 31, 2005, 11:45:16 pm »

Closeups of the right side moveable buttons on the mockup.

RetroJames · « **Reply #294 on:** January 31, 2005, 11:45:55 pm »

Flaps up, Flaps down - these could just be bigger buttons etc.

RetroJames · « **Reply #295 on:** January 31, 2005, 11:46:52 pm »

It was hard to take these two pics. I was trying to illustrate the reason for the positioning of the pressure plates.

I don't think I am getting the point across, but trust me, they are in a good spot. A light tap on the pad and the input will be achieved.

RetroJames · « **Reply #296 on:** February 01, 2005, 12:13:05 am »

Some thoughts -

1. The research and notes above about the FPS controller and the remapping capability that adds to the mix is awesome. I did not have a chance to add it but if we keep the shoulder buttons on top, the led screen can be mounted at an angle in the center top portion of the structure. Really cool.

2. I am not sold on the shoulder buttons. I want to toss this out here for the group and Sean to consider.

Since we now believe we have the capability to remap ANY controls to ANY controls, do we need the shoulder buttons? Certainly we can keep them for more options, but what if we removed the SB structure and just added a couple of big buttons for extra inputs?

Just tossing out the thought, let me know what you all think. I really wont have a better bead on them until Sean can try them out.

3. Not pictured is the sip and puff switch. I do want to add one to the panel. Remember that doing so will add two inputs, which sean could also map to shoulder button functions.

4. Not shown, 3.5 input jacks. I wanted to have one jack for every input in a "patch panel" bank somewhere on the cp easily accessable for Sean to plug in another button or switch as desired.

Two related concerns

- if we can remap controls are the jacks needed?

- With the shoulder button structure ontop, there is no room left for a gnats a** much less a new button / switch anywhere else. He could of course plug in with the cp off to the side, just curious if we really think they will be needed at this point.

Lastly, is it just me or top down is this thing is starting to look like a Tron interceptor....

RetroJames · « **Reply #297 on:** February 01, 2005, 12:16:06 am »

Quote from: krick on January 31, 2005, 04:34:19 pm

Quote from: Stingray on January 31, 2005, 02:57:04 pm

Out of stock.

Just did a search, there's a few on eBay.

versapak · « **Reply #298 on:** February 01, 2005, 01:01:57 am »

Are the four main buttons (X,O,□,∆) getting put to a stick instead of buttons?

I am not too sure how often this would even come up, but it would make it impossible to press 2 buttons at the same time (well not impossible with diagonals, but the diagonals aren't necessarily the button combos you'd be wanting).

Stingray · « **Reply #299 on:** February 01, 2005, 11:49:28 am »

Quote from: 1hookedspacecadet on February 01, 2005, 12:13:05 am

Since we now believe we have the capability to remap ANY controls to ANY controls, do we need the shoulder buttons? Certainly we can keep them for more options, but what if we removed the SB structure and just added a couple of big buttons for extra inputs?

Not sure I understand the question, but if you're asking if you can delete the buttons entirely, the answer is no. Some PS2 games do indeed make use of all twelve (or however many there are) buttons, both analog sticks and the d-pad.

-S

skallagrigg · « **Reply #300 on:** February 01, 2005, 01:08:21 pm »

Getting rid of the SB structure.... What does Sean think? Perhaps a lot would depend upon how easy he would find the remapping process.

I'd personally add the 3.5mm sockets at the back as they add future flexibility - the sip-puff switches could go into them quite easily too.

Great work, by the way.

Barrie
www.OneSwitch.org.uk

versapak · « **Reply #301 on:** February 01, 2005, 08:32:45 pm »

EB in the mall where I live had 2 FPS Master controllers for PS2 for $15 each.

jsco · « **Reply #302 on:** February 02, 2005, 05:04:25 am »

Has anyone looked into the possibility of connecting the Happs analog sticks to the FPS Master controller? If we can not connect our analog sticks to the controller it is useless, right?

I've been talking to Dave (http://dave.bit2000.com/) about an alternative way of connecting the Happ's analog sticks to a console. He says that he might be able to adapt his AKI Analog Kontrol Interface to work with an Xbox. If he can pull this off I think it would be the best solution. You wouldn't need to take apart a FPS Master controller, and assembly would be significantly easier. An Xbox to Ps2 adaptor or a usb to Ps2 adaptor could be used to connect the AKI to the PlayStation. I will have to search some more to find the best adapter to use. 1hookedspacecadet and everyone else, what do you think about this? It might not be the best solution for a PS2 controller, but it would definitely work on an Xbox.

One downside to this would be the ability to remap the controls. The AKI does not have this functionality built into it. I know of two ways to overcome this. Like someone suggested earlier, we can route all of the buttons to the back of the controller and have a series of switches or a patch panel that would allow the user to manually rewire the buttons. A more elegant solution would be to add some type of hardware logic, maybe a simple cpld or something, that could handle the remapping. This is unfortunately beyond my level of expertise though.

The design of the cpld, in theory, is very simple. Have a separate control button that, when pressed, would tell the cpld the the following two button presses should be remaped. Like so...
[control] [button4] [button6]
Then the cpld rewires 4 and 6. Are there any engineers out there that could do this? Anyone know if there is a better way to implement hardware remapping?

versapak · « **Reply #303 on:** February 02, 2005, 07:57:52 am »

From what I have gathered, PS2 is the priority here though.

All other functionality would just be a bonus.

As for getting actual analog functionality. The analog sticks on the PS2's FPS Master are the same as you would find on the Xbox version, and pretty much the same as are found on the standard Xbox controller.

[EDIT]

Yep, I just went back and read the first post in this thread, and PS2 is reason this controller is being built.

Lord Xane · « **Reply #304 on:** February 02, 2005, 03:58:52 pm »

Once again I think you guys are doing awesome, I just thought I'd stop in and put in my little input. I am a C5 C6 quad and I personally think the shoulder buttons are really good. I think PlayStation 2 is a good way to go because it has all the good RPG's, which are a little easier to control. Definitely focus on finishing it up now and seeing what you can do for adapting it for other system later. I know my little brother bought an adapter that allows him to plug his PlayStation 2 controller into an Xbox. There might be something just as easy the other way around.

Keep up the good work!

skallagrigg · « **Reply #305 on:** February 03, 2005, 03:16:05 am »

A Playstation controller is the best way to go if Sean ever wants to use other Games Consoles. I've a page up detailing all the adapters available (to my knowledge) for Playstation controllers:

http://www.oneswitch.org.uk/1/playstation-adapters.htm

Ghosting problems. I imagine you already know, but with a ton of extra wiring, you may experience rogue button activations. It may help to add a single 1N4148 diode from the Ground of each microswitch leading any 3.5mm sockets you add.

All the best,

Barrie
www.OneSwitch.org.uk

jsco · « **Reply #306 on:** February 03, 2005, 11:26:04 am »

Another idea would be to make it compatible with the x-arcade or i-paq. That way we could use the various console adapters those companies make. X-Arcade makes Xbox, PlayStation, GameCube, and Dreamcast adapters. I-PAQ has an Xbox adapter and is supposedly in the process of developing a PS2 adapter.

versapak · « **Reply #307 on:** February 03, 2005, 11:34:07 am »

There are adapters to use PS2 controllers on pretty much everything, so I compatibility is not really a concern there.

Hiub1 · « **Reply #308 on:** February 03, 2005, 05:58:47 pm »

Hey guys. Sorry for not being up here as much as I should, but school has bogged me down a bit. Anyways. The news on the FPS controller are great indeed. This possibility will allow Sean much more freedom in the use of the controller.

By using a PS2 controller, the compatibility list greatly opens up since we can use adaptors to connect to almost any console or PC available. Theoretically, as long as we get the PS2 pad working right on the PS2, it should work with any other console with just the use of an adapter.

Quote from: jsco on February 02, 2005, 05:04:25 am

Has anyone looked into the possibility of connecting the Happs analog sticks to the FPS Master controller? If we can not connect our analog sticks to the controller it is useless, right?

I've been talking to Dave (http://dave.bit2000.com/) about an alternative way of connecting the Happ's analog sticks to a console. He says that he might be able to adapt his AKI Analog Kontrol Interface to work with an Xbox. If he can pull this off I think it would be the best solution. You wouldn't need to take apart a FPS Master controller, and assembly would be significantly easier. An Xbox to Ps2 adaptor or a usb to Ps2 adaptor could be used to connect the AKI to the PlayStation. I will have to search some more to find the best adapter to use. 1hookedspacecadet and everyone else, what do you think about this? It might not be the best solution for a PS2 controller, but it would definitely work on an Xbox.

One downside to this would be the ability to remap the controls. The AKI does not have this functionality built into it. I know of two ways to overcome this. Like someone suggested earlier, we can route all of the buttons to the back of the controller and have a series of switches or a patch panel that would allow the user to manually rewire the buttons. A more elegant solution would be to add some type of hardware logic, maybe a simple cpld or something, that could handle the remapping. This is unfortunately beyond my level of expertise though.

The design of the cpld, in theory, is very simple. Have a separate control button that, when pressed, would tell the cpld the the following two button presses should be remaped. Like so...
[control] [button4] [button6]
Then the cpld rewires 4 and 6. Are there any engineers out there that could do this? Anyone know if there is a better way to implement hardware remapping?

JSCO: The more possibilities we have to interface the controller, the better. The PS2 hardware has a standard that every controller must meet in order to function properly. This won't necessarily mean that the hardware used is the same, but it has to function in the same fashion. This is apparent in the difference between Sega branded DC controllers which use Hall Effect sensors to detect movement in the analog pad, compared to most aftermarket pads which use Pots to detect movement.

The FPS pad looks to use pots, and I believe they should be 10k pots just like on the other PS2 pad that I looked at. The pot Resistance will not really matter, since we are getting 2 analog joysticks with 100k pots that we can adjust to a lower Resistance value. It would be great if Dave could come up with an interface, but it seems to me that it would be a lot of extra effort to recreate something that we seem to have put together for us already with this FPS controller.

Other than that, I just bought a shiny new Dewalt DW621 Plunge router to start the project on a good note, and along with it came a Keller dovetail jig to make this box nice and strong. I can't wait to start putting this thing together!

Again I want to thank everybody for their input and ideas, without you guys the concept of remapable controls would still be up in the air!

handiman28 · « **Reply #309 on:** February 10, 2005, 05:37:50 pm »

hi i'm a quadriplegic that's been looking for a controller to play games on the ps2 also. this is the controller i have and have been able to play games ok with it. the buttons are starting to not work well but even if i find another like it i still won't be able to play ps2 games with it.

i've read some post but i don't know if anyone has come up with any solutions and i don't know if seanwheels problems are similar to mine.

i'm a c-5 quad. i can use my shoulders, bicepts, the outside of my forearmes, and the top muscle on my right wrist towards my thumb

with my left on the joystick i hook my thumb to go left and up and push with my palm to go right and hook my fingers to go back.
with my right i press the buttons with my pinky with my hand upright.
i'm not able to hit more than one button at a time unless they are right next to each other (i was still able to wind up a haymaker on my friends in the first ring kings game and knock their a$$es out!)

if i can help with anything please let me know. i can give input, do drawing,
see if i can understand more of what sean needs cus i would also love to see if someone out there could make a control that quads could use for the ps2.

RetroJames · « **Reply #310 on:** February 10, 2005, 06:32:12 pm »

Welcome to the show handiman! We are shipping the mockup to Sean and waiting on some vendors to get in line but we should be building soon. Please stay tuned as we will be making the plans public once finished for all to benefit.

skallagrigg · « **Reply #311 on:** February 11, 2005, 04:22:39 am »

Hi handiman,

What about an X-arcade? http://www.x-arcade.com/

The joystick can be set to act as a d-pad, or either analogue sticks. Works great with most PS2 games, and most other games consoles too with an adapter.

The difficulty you may find is in the shape of the joystick? And also, in switching the joystick mode. To do this you need to hold down the side button, then press one of the top buttons. Is there anyway that you could activate two switches at a time (e.g. by using a sip/puff switch and a button)? I would imagine a simple fix could be made if so to enable easier mode switching.

You may also be interested in the following adaptation that I'm working on:

http://www.oneswitch.org.uk/4/DIY/x-arcade.htm

It's out being tested at present, but results are pretty positive so far.

By the way, I have a number of the ASCII sticks you have been using in stock if you are struggling to get an exact replacement.

Barrie
www.OneSwitch.org.uk

SeaMonkey · « **Reply #312 on:** February 11, 2005, 11:36:44 am »

Quote from: versapak on February 01, 2005, 01:01:57 am

Are the four main buttons (X,O,□,∆) getting put to a stick instead of buttons?

I am not too sure how often this would even come up, but it would make it impossible to press 2 buttons at the same time (well not impossible with diagonals, but the diagonals aren't necessarily the button combos you'd be wanting).

Even with buttons, I think it would not be easy for Sean to hit two buttons at the same time. At some point in the design, we will have to accept a small margin of diminished returns.

Sean himself put forward the joystick mapped to the button functions.

handiman28 · « **Reply #313 on:** February 11, 2005, 03:51:07 pm »

hey skall, i think the x-arcade might work for me. i'll have to try one out and see.

the joystick doesn't look like it will be a problem, but you never know.
as far as the button to change modes, if it's that button on the left that
you can kinda see i can probably glue a cylender peice on that button to make it stick out far enough to hold it and press another button at the same time.

versapak · « **Reply #314 on:** February 11, 2005, 06:29:13 pm »

Quote

Even with buttons, I think it would not be easy for Sean to hit two buttons at the same time. At some point in the design, we will have to accept a small margin of diminished returns.

Sean himself put forward the joystick mapped to the button functions.

Ahhhh I C

I imagine he isn't playing the kind of twitch action games that would require such presses anyway.

SeaMonkey · « **Reply #315 on:** February 15, 2005, 09:08:45 am »

Yeah. I imagine the controller as it looks now, will open up a world of games for Sean. Even if he can't play 5% of the games out there, that is still a 95% increase on what he can effectively play.

RetroJames · « **Reply #316 on:** February 17, 2005, 07:20:27 am »

All,

The CP is going out this weekend to Sea Monkey by hook or crook.

Next, someone contacted me about the FPS controller in that they had one for the project. Please contact me again as I cannot find the PM so we can arrange shipping and reimbursment. Thanks!

CMIVXX · « **Reply #317 on:** February 18, 2005, 01:58:20 am »

Hello all. I have been away for a while and this thread caught my eye right out of the box.

I just wanted to let you all know that you are about the coolest group of people I have ever had the pleasure to (almost) being a part of. The fact that you guys would bust out and do something like this just to bring a little pleasure to someone's life is about the most truly heart-warming thing I've read about in a long time. If only I hadn't been away so long, I would have tried my best to help. I just hope you all realize how special you all are for opening your heart to people in need.

Sean: I wish you all the best, and I will say a prayer for you.

Thank you all for my enlightening experience for the evening.

Hiub1 · « **Reply #318 on:** February 18, 2005, 10:20:15 am »

Thanks for the kind words man. 1hookedspacecadet, I sent you an e-mail yesterday with the prices and part numbers that we need, so we can get the order in with that. Other than that, I will be waiting to get the FPS controller and look into what we can do with that. Progress is going good, let's keep it up.

Thanks again everybody for all the help, this project would not be possible without all the help from everybody in this forum!

Fred.

RetroJames · « **Reply #319 on:** February 18, 2005, 10:27:39 am »

Quote from: Hiub1 on February 18, 2005, 10:20:15 am

Thanks for the kind words man. 1hookedspacecadet, I sent you an e-mail yesterday with the prices and part numbers that we need, so we can get the order in with that. Other than that, I will be waiting to get the FPS controller and look into what we can do with that. Progress is going good, let's keep it up.

Thanks again everybody for all the help, this project would not be possible without all the help from everybody in this forum!

Fred.

I saw the email, lets get the rest of this list together and off to Saint for ordering from Happs. I need to check my email, In know we already have most of the list ready.


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