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Author Topic: controller for quadriplegic  (Read 115212 times)

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Goz

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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #120 on: December 16, 2004, 09:47:55 am »
It's posts and actions like this that make me proud to be a member of this great community. 

Tis the season, I added a little to the fund. Everyone else reading this thread for the first time, if you can spare anything I encourage you to do the same.

-Goz


ntjedi

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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #121 on: December 16, 2004, 10:03:27 am »
I have an extra new Wico red Ball top 8 way stick if you are going to be using one?  I went through the posts but didnt catch if anyone already donated parts.  If not I will just donate money but I thought I would put the part offer out there.  If you want it, just tell me where to ship it and consider it done!
"Genius? Nothing! Sticking to it is the genius! ... I've failed my way to success."

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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #122 on: December 16, 2004, 10:27:47 am »
On the subject of donating parts, IMO it would probably be best to wait and see exactly what is needed before sending stuff. I have quite a bit of stuff I'm not currently using, if it turns out any of that is needed for this I'll gladly send it along.

-S
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RetroJames

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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #123 on: December 16, 2004, 10:32:25 am »
On the subject of donating parts, IMO it would probably be best to wait and see exactly what is needed before sending stuff. I have quite a bit of stuff I'm not currently using, if it turns out any of that is needed for this I'll gladly send it along.

-S

Yes, keep the offers comming, but hang onto the goodies for now until we know exactly what we need.  New designs comming in a little bit with some cool surprises (if I do say so myself).  :)

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Sean Controller - New Designs - 12162004
« Reply #124 on: December 16, 2004, 10:50:14 am »
I added a wheel on the left side.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2004, 10:51:55 am by 1hookedspacecadet »

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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #125 on: December 16, 2004, 10:57:38 am »
The wheel between the two left sticks is a very creative idea, as is the adjustable wrist buttons. The design just keep getting better & better. Can't wait to see how this comes out.

-S
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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #126 on: December 16, 2004, 11:39:34 am »
Current funding:

$405 donated, another $50 pledged!

Should I post the names of those who have donated/pledged?

--- saint
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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #127 on: December 16, 2004, 11:48:42 am »
All,

I

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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #128 on: December 16, 2004, 12:36:02 pm »
On the KYE controller:

From Sean's comments in Reply 39:

>also there is a company that makes a controller for a play stations for people who >are disabled whole lot worse than me who cannot move their body and all it is >called a  sip   and Puff controller I wouldn't have the 1st idea on how to use that >and it would not be effective for me I had to much movement I can scratch my >head right my name with a larger pen and do a lot of
>The things that most people my level of injury can't

So I don't think this is the way he will want to go.

I still think we need to ask Sean if he REALLY likes PS2 games, or if a MAME setup and PC games would be good as well.
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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #129 on: December 16, 2004, 12:45:42 pm »
MY donation will be coming tomorrow. also Ill still donate the items I listed in my first post if needed.

The plans look increadible.  I cant wait to see this thing in action.
"A true warrior enters the arena with all his powers at the ready." ~ Gouki

RetroJames

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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #130 on: December 16, 2004, 01:02:36 pm »
On the KYE controller:

From Sean's comments in Reply 39:

>also there is a company that makes a controller for a play stations for people who >are disabled whole lot worse than me who cannot move their body and all it is >called a

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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #131 on: December 16, 2004, 01:38:05 pm »
Not to keep harping on this, but we really need feedback from Sean on:

What games is he looking to play?  Any video games or only PS2 games?

In case Sean isn't familiar with MAME, a (mildly outdated) list of games and screenshots is available at http://www.arcadeathome.com/shots.phtml.

The difference is Arcade games (MAME) generally has simpler controls (single joysticks, 1-3 buttons) and are designed to be more difficult and only last 3 - 20 minutes.  Console games usually have more buttons (2 analog sticks, 8 analog buttons) and are designed to play for 1-2 hours, and are generally easy to play badly and difficult to master.

The only game I've seen Sean mention is Gran Turismo using an Interact V3 wheel and pedal set.  This is a good game, but the controls (by PS2 standards) are pretty simplistic.  There are similar games in MAME, but again, they aren't designed for you to play for hours on end, but there are also PC games like Need For Speed, which are very similar to Gran Turismo.

Final Point - and it applies to a MAME cab as well - the controller needs to be designed for the games it will be used for.

In other words, if Sean only plays games that require the left analog stick and two function buttons, we are being counter productive trying to design for both analog sticks and all ten buttons.  (In that a system that only supported two buttons would be easier for him to use for those games).

Example for the rest of the board - if you are the only one in the house that likes arcade games and you play Galaga, Time Pilot, Gyruss, and Pacman - you are throwing away space and money if you build a 4-player control panel with a SF layout and spinner and trackball and trigger sticks (Frankenpanel).
It's not what you take when you leave this world behind you, it's what you leave behind you when you go. - R. Travis.
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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #132 on: December 16, 2004, 03:01:03 pm »
1hookedspacecadet, I would LOVE to help building this thing. As you know I am in the outskirts of atlanta (20 min away) and have a pretty good size shop with tools that we could do this thing in. If you would like, you are more than welcome to come by and do some work on it here.  Let me know, and by the way, this is incredible what you are doing. I am glad to be part of this forum.

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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #133 on: December 16, 2004, 03:10:36 pm »
1hookedspacecadet, I would LOVE to help building this thing. As you know I am in the outskirts of atlanta (20 min away) and have a pretty good size shop with tools that we could do this thing in. If you would like, you are more than welcome to come by and do some work on it here.

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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #134 on: December 16, 2004, 03:15:55 pm »
Regarding the KYE controller, even if it is overkill for Sean's use, it would certainly be worth contacting these guys and directing them to this thread. They undoubtedly have far more experience than anyone here in custom designing controls for quadriplegics and they may well be able to offer advice, design help and so forth. And if they aren't interested because they are a business looking to make money then they can always look at this case as useful prototyping for a new product (I'm sure that wouldn't be the case though - people don't tend to run companies like that to be mercenary, but rather to help people).



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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #135 on: December 16, 2004, 03:18:25 pm »
Regarding the KYE controller, even if it is overkill for Sean's use, it would certainly be worth contacting these guys and directing them to this thread. They undoubtedly have far more experience than anyone here in custom designing controls for quadriplegics and they may well be able to offer advice, design help and so forth. And if they aren't interested because they are a business looking to make money then they can always look at this case as useful prototyping for a new product (I'm sure that wouldn't be the case though - people don't tend to run companies like that to be mercenary, but rather to help people).




 ;)

From Ken Yankelevitz, creator of the sip and puff controller.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2004, 03:21:16 pm by 1hookedspacecadet »

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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #136 on: December 16, 2004, 03:24:07 pm »
Well Mr. Yankelevitz certainly seems willing enough to offer advice & direction on this project, that's very good news.

-S
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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #137 on: December 16, 2004, 04:01:22 pm »
I know that when I was searching for an "off the shelf" solution for Sean earlier this year, I mentioned the "sip and puff" solution to him, and he definitely would prefer a hand-operated device.

The fact, though, that Ken would like to help (and has a lot of experience in this area) is a great asset.

I'm so glad to see a solution taking shape!  :D

Kevin
Kevin Steele, Former Editor and Publisher of RetroBlast! and GameRoom Magazine

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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #138 on: December 16, 2004, 04:16:19 pm »


One note - I noticed Ken's statement that there is a "turbo" option that will accomplish the auto-fire on many gamepads, that is definitely the way to go.

That would free up the oral switch for something else.  It may be a good idea to make the oral switch, switchable to take over different inputs as needed.  It would not be too hard to wire up to a few of the buttons for this purpose.  Also, I am pretty sure it could be configured to have more than one switch, possibly using a sip and puff switch.


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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #139 on: December 16, 2004, 04:25:03 pm »
1hookedspacecadet Just let me know a couple of days in advanced when you want to do this. I am north of downtown, exit 107 to be precise on 85.

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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #140 on: December 16, 2004, 04:30:17 pm »
Hello,  i am  sorry  if it appears I am not keeping up yesterday I was sent  to the hospital with a fever.I   am  back home now and will try to get  caught up..SEAN

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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #141 on: December 16, 2004, 04:36:56 pm »

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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #142 on: December 16, 2004, 05:30:06 pm »
OK, I just looked over the whole thread once again. I am good with a soldering iron, and should be able to hack a ps2 controller with NO problems. I also have a PS2 here at my house, so we can do any testing if need be, and I am sure I can borrow needed games from friends if I do not have the needed games. I really think that if we plan this all out, and have good plans of what we need to do, we can most definetly put it together with some clever thinking. 1hookedspacecadet, could you send me a basic summary of everything that the controller has to implement? I just read over the whole thread, but everything changed so much that I am not sure of everything that will be put on. I could also give you some suggestions on the actual construction of the controller as well as what materials might work.

Keep up the good work people, I am sure Sean and anybody else we might be able to help will really appreciate this.

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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #143 on: December 16, 2004, 07:13:14 pm »
1hookedspacecadet, could you send me a basic summary of everything that the controller has to implement? I just read over the whole thread, but everything changed so much that I am not sure of everything that will be put on. I could also give you some suggestions on the actual construction of the controller as well as what materials might work.

Keep up the good work people, I am sure Sean and anybody else we might be able to help will really appreciate this.

The PS2 for testing is also a huge plus!

Regarding the materials, I am most comfortable working with wood, and 3/4 ply or mdf is usually my choice, but we will need to be aware of the weight as this will sit on Sean's lap. 

I also would be interested to know if we should put some sort of angle brackets on the sides to hang the cp off of Seans wheelchair arms if that is possible. 

I am assumming that Sean has no feeling in his legs, but I would think it would still be detrimental to have alot of weight on his lap for circulation etc.

Once we finalize the design we can estimate how much wood we would use and the corresponding weight.  If needed we can come up with some creative ways to shave the weight down if needed.

We might consider using 3/4 ply (a little lighter than MDF) then route areas out on the inside of the chassis to remove uneeded weight while maintaining good strength of course.


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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #144 on: December 16, 2004, 07:29:39 pm »
That would not be a problem. I am also comfortable with working with metal, and during school I have access to a full metal shop. It would be cool if we could make it out of metal, but I am not 100% comfortable with doing this, it just seems that if we screw up it will be expensive and labor intensive to start over. If anything, to reduce weight, we could use 1/2' MDF and just brace it to be strong enough, or some sort of hardwood that we can use that is thinner but still strong.

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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #145 on: December 16, 2004, 08:45:09 pm »
Dunno if this has been thought of already but rather than it sitting in his lap.. or maybe in addition to....


.... Adjustable mounting brackets for him to secure it to his chair?  kind of like how some dinner trays work?
I miss Retroblast :(

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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #146 on: December 16, 2004, 09:13:48 pm »
That would not be a problem. I am also comfortable with working with metal, and during school I have access to a full metal shop. It would be cool if we could make it out of metal, but I am not 100% comfortable with doing this, it just seems that if we screw up it will be expensive and labor intensive to start over. If anything, to reduce weight, we could use 1/2' MDF and just brace it to be strong enough, or some sort of hardwood that we can use that is thinner but still strong.

Here is what I was thinking on the routing to reduce weight if needed.

Re: ".... Adjustable mounting brackets for him to secure it to his chair?
« Last Edit: December 16, 2004, 10:33:14 pm by 1hookedspacecadet »

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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #147 on: December 17, 2004, 09:48:00 am »
The following are not cheap, but may give some more ideas...




www.tashinc.com - all of these are simple digital switches.



www.edupro.nl - then search on "Funkey", or look under Hardware:

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Scale Images
« Reply #148 on: December 17, 2004, 09:54:24 am »
I am sending actual size images to SeaMonkey for his visit tommorow, just posting smaller ones here with a grid to show the scale.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2004, 10:15:48 am by 1hookedspacecadet »

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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #149 on: December 17, 2004, 11:46:38 am »
Welcome aboard Barrie AKA skallagrigg.  Feel free to post any other possible solutions.  We appreciate your help and input.  I'm looking forward to the result of Seamonkeys visit too!  This is a very exciting project.  Thanks all for your help! ARCADIAC!

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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #150 on: December 17, 2004, 12:00:31 pm »
If the current superb looking design doesn't work out,

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Analogue problems
« Reply #151 on: December 17, 2004, 12:07:19 pm »
Just had the following message from EduPro, in the Netherlands:



Quote
I am not sure that the Funkey [track-ball] works on a Playstation 2, I think it does not, because on the page I mention the port it works on, and that is the PS/2-port and this one has nothing to do with the PS2..... Sorry, my mistake!, there is however a new device that is meant for children with physical dysabilities, that works with the Playstation 2. This week I got a mail about this one. I will look it up as soon as I am in my office and get back to you, o.k?


I'll keep you all posted...

Barrie
www.OneSwitch.org.uk

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Questions for Sean during SeaMonkey's Visit
« Reply #152 on: December 17, 2004, 12:17:26 pm »
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Here is a basic list of items SeaMonkey should discuss with Sean regarding the CP from my perspective.  If anyone has any further suggestions, please quote this post and add your input.  Any other additions, please quote the last (most current) list and add more suggestions.  This way Sea Monkey can print the last applicable post for his visit with Sean.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------


Questions -

- Double check overall dimensions of the cp chassis. Currently it is approx. 20" long x 11" wide x 5" high (that is from the bottom of the beanbag to the wrist rests).

- Determine optimum height from bottom of the beanbag to the top of the cp and to the top of the wrist rests.

- Determine correct angle(s) at which Sean's arms will rest on the cp. Drawings to date show them straight on, my suspicion is that they will be angles inward.  Tracing his arms on the cp in the applicable positions would be helpful.

- Have Sean pretend to move sticks, contact buttons, etc. in order to determine if his range of movement will allow him to operate the cp as pictured.

- Ask Sean about how he would prefer the cp to mount meaning should we use the beanbag and have the cp sit on his lap or should we make "hangers" on the sides so it can rest on his wheelchair.

- If hangers are desired, take applicable measurments.

- Discuss the weight of the cp.  What are the implications of X amount of weight resting on his lap if the beanbag approach is desired?

- Survey how his PS2 is setup.  How does he play now?  How does he load disks?  How might he use and then stow the cp?  With assistance?  If there is anything we can do to make that easier let me know.

- I am unsure if Sean knows about MAME.  He mentioned that his all-time fav game is Dig-Dug.  There is a PS1 namco disk that has dig-dug but also school him on MAME and see if he would rather go in that direction.  Who knows the pelican controller may satisfy him for the PS2 usage, then we might build him a MAME cp.

- If possible, pictures of Sean's hands may be helpful, even better if he is holding a joystick so I can get an idea of how his hands might rest on the cp.  Would he have his hands on top of the joysticks or on the side with his hand resting on the cp?
« Last Edit: December 17, 2004, 01:28:29 pm by Peale »

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Analogue problems
« Reply #153 on: December 17, 2004, 12:43:00 pm »
I've been trying for some time to make an accessible universal controller. Finding out about this forum is really exciting. I'm keen to help if I can, and I'm also keen to find help too - ideally through finding a solution for Sean.

My current work so far on a PS2 / universal accessible controller:



The X-arcade controller has switchable analogue modes. The digital joystick can act as the D-pad, or the left analogue stick or the right analogue stick (on the press of two different buttons). It also has the option for full push - or half push. A good compromise I thought.

However - this unit has suffered from 'ghosting'. The controller operates by itself randomly when I connect external switches. I and others are looking to solve this problem, but so far no luck.

My X-arcade D.I.Y. page is here: www.oneswitch.org.uk/4/DIY/x-arcade.htm

I've also worked on a Dual-Shock 3rd party controller (easier to adapt) and a 4gamers arcade stick. The 4-gamers stick has a 3-way switch which assigns the D-pad / left stick / right stick to the digital joystick. The 4gamers stick is quite easily available on eBay.co.uk:



These are both fairly straight forward to adapt, but if you press left and right together or up and down together, the controller would short out, resetting the Playstation. A real problem for disabled gamers using switches, and one I'm still looking for a solution to. However - this might not be a problem for Sean if he uses three joysticks.

Best of luck all.

Barrie
www.OneSwitch.org.uk
« Last Edit: December 17, 2004, 01:47:56 pm by skallagrigg »

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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #154 on: December 17, 2004, 07:04:46 pm »
WOW great work all.  It seems as if we all just need to take a deep breath and wait for some input from Sean and seamonkey.  Hopefully the package I sent will arrive in time to take to Sean, I'm excited to see where this goes, the implications for adapting a controller for my son is very encouraging.
Keep up the good work all and as always Thank You!
ARCADIAC!

Kremmit

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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #155 on: December 17, 2004, 11:06:33 pm »
re: reducing weight on lap

What if you built the box out of Plexi instead of wood?  I don't believe it's hard to bend with a little heat, and would weigh a lot less than MDF.

re: top-fire buttons

If Sean can't manage a top-fire, he still may be able to use a trigger, as a hand-squeeze requires less dexterity than a thumb push.  Something like these:  http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=13718&item=6137147329&rd=1

RetroJames

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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #156 on: December 18, 2004, 09:02:36 am »
re: reducing weight on lap

What if you built the box out of Plexi instead of wood?

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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #157 on: December 18, 2004, 11:19:48 am »

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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #158 on: December 18, 2004, 02:37:14 pm »
I am headed over right now. I have the template printed, and cut and taped so it is actual size.

I do have the box of goodies in hand so Sean will have some joysticks to playtest some games, and wow...a wireless setup...sweet.

I am also taking pen paper measure tape, and some happs buttons to test and note, and template while I am there.

I will post back in a few hours.

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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #159 on: December 18, 2004, 04:03:57 pm »
Saint, what are the donations up to now, out of curiousity?  Maybe we could get enough together for a Mame controller and a PS2 controller.  Wow, that would make for a merry Christmas indeed.

--Dweebs