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Author Topic: controller for quadriplegic  (Read 70112 times)

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RetroJames

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More new pics
« Reply #80 on: December 14, 2004, 01:35:32 am »
.

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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #81 on: December 14, 2004, 09:34:54 am »
Okay, I've made a donation, I'd like to encourage others to show their holiday spirit & do the same.

I'm trying to get a handle on the design work you've done so far 1hookedspacecadet.
 
On the right, I assume the red balltop would be the right analog stick and the three blue buttons are triangle, circle, square and X.

The three small white buttons on the top left, are those the pause, select & analog buttons?

What do the buttons on the top fire stick, and the small red button next to it do?

If the blue buttons on the side are R1, R2, L1 & L2, maybe their positioning should be reconsidered. A lot of PS2 games require them to be pressed at the same time as using on of the sticks or pushing one of the symbol buttons. I think they may be a little too far out of reach where they are now. Just a thought.

Well done on doing all of this design work.

-S
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RetroJames

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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #82 on: December 14, 2004, 09:47:45 am »
Ok, so I need to make this quick, but here is some explanation about my thought process on the new design.


1. Made the top of the cp more or less flush with the base in order to make it easier to get to the shoulder buttons.

2. Not pictured, but I still have the "beanbag" Sean talked about in mind.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2004, 11:31:05 am by 1hookedspacecadet »

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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #83 on: December 14, 2004, 10:41:11 am »
Those angled "arm" buttons. --brilliant!
NO MORE!!

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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #84 on: December 14, 2004, 11:03:44 am »
Those angled "arm" buttons. --brilliant!


They really are and they speak to the power of this board.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2004, 11:11:43 am by 1hookedspacecadet »

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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #85 on: December 14, 2004, 11:27:53 am »
Those angled "arm" buttons. --brilliant!


I agree, that's an outstanding solution.

I'm still unclear on what you mean by the top fire button and the button next to the left stick emulate the d-pad. Do you mean that when pressed the left analog stick functions as the d-pad? Depending on Sean's ability to use it, that's good idea from a design standpoint. From a technical standpoint, though, how do you plan to make this work? How will the same stick function as both an analog stick and a digital stick? I'm not putting down the idea at all, I'm just unclear on how that could be done.

-S
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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #86 on: December 14, 2004, 11:38:35 am »
NICE! yeah that angled arm button idea is fantastic.

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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #87 on: December 14, 2004, 11:39:37 am »
Those angled "arm" buttons. --brilliant!


I agree, that's an outstanding solution.

I'm still unclear on what you mean by the top fire button and the button next to the left stick emulate the d-pad. Do you mean that when pressed the left analog stick functions as the d-pad? Depending on Sean's ability to use it, that's good idea from a design standpoint. From a technical standpoint, though, how do you plan to make this work? How will the same stick function as both an analog stick and a digital stick? I'm not putting down the idea at all, I'm just unclear on how that could be done.

-S

The hat-switch is essentially a little joystick in its own right.

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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #88 on: December 14, 2004, 11:42:56 am »
Quote from: Stingray link=topic=28718.msg241671#msg241671
I'm still unclear on what you mean by the top fire button and the button next to the left stick emulate the d-pad. Do you mean that when pressed the left analog stick functions as the d-pad? Depending on Sean's ability to use it, that's good idea from a design standpoint. From a technical standpoint, though, how do you plan to make this work? How will the same stick function as both an analog stick and a digital stick? I'm not putting down the idea at all, I'm just unclear on how that could be done.

I was just picking up on something stevejt suggested, that is hacking a PC/Playstation flight stick, which often have a HAT switch on the top, a 4-way rocker switch that you move with your thumb while gripping the sitck. How it would work from a technical standpoint is that these things have digital switches built into the top already, which are wired seperately (the analog joystick will be using a couple of pots in the joystick base or something).

How good a solution that is obviously depends on how much movement Sean has in his thumbs...
« Last Edit: December 14, 2004, 11:54:04 am by Oddfeld »

Stingray

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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #89 on: December 14, 2004, 11:49:28 am »
The hat-switch is essentially a little joystick in its own right.
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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #90 on: December 14, 2004, 12:23:45 pm »
FYI, R1 and R2 are frequently used for fire buttons, they may need to be moved to the topside of the CP, within reach of the joysticks, possibly near wherever the x button will be.

Also consider my previous posts, flightsticks have a very different, longer throw to them, they will NOT be equal to the analog stick on the right side, they're just not designed to work the same way.

Since the pelican sticks already are analog sticks, why not use them instead of an arcade stick?
« Last Edit: December 14, 2004, 12:34:34 pm by Arcadiac »

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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #91 on: December 14, 2004, 12:31:44 pm »
Its looking real good so far guys...

Just a thought, has anyone considered something like a virtual reality glove for this project. I'm sure one could be built and could control mame but not sure how easily it could be used.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2004, 12:41:48 pm by Jabba »
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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #92 on: December 14, 2004, 01:06:37 pm »
FYI, R1 and R2 are frequently used for fire buttons, they may need to be moved to the topside of the CP, within reach of the joysticks, possibly near wherever the x button will be.


Noted

Quote

Also consider my previous posts, flightsticks have a very different, longer throw to them, they will NOT be equal to the analog stick on the right side, they're just not designed to work the same way.



Since the pelican sticks already are analog sticks, why not use them instead of an arcade stick?

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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #93 on: December 14, 2004, 01:46:36 pm »
For the record, donations stand at $225 presently!
--- John St.Clair
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Stingray

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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #94 on: December 14, 2004, 01:50:28 pm »
For the record, donations stand at $225 presently!

That's fanstastic!

-S
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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #95 on: December 14, 2004, 02:12:43 pm »
Re: Donations - Wow, great stuff guys.  Very cool.

In other news, I got a note from Sean and he likes the wrist controllers, but the thumb controlled hat switch is a no go due to the fact that he does not have control over his thumbs.  (For what it's worth Sean, neither do I...and sometimes I feel like I have 10 of 'em!)

Tonight I will update the design pics with the left controls consisting of two ball-top joysticks, one for the left analog stick, the other for the dpad. 

I think we are getting pretty close, though I will post some more ideas on the shoulder buttons after I get a chance to reread the info posted about the functions and uses etc.


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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #96 on: December 14, 2004, 09:09:34 pm »
Something to keep in mind that I found here:

http://wrongcrowd.com/arcade/joystickp1.shtml

and here

http://wrongcrowd.com/arcade/sony.shtml

"The PCB in the Sony pad is very hard to work with. At first glance, it looks like it should work fine, but the black traces (indicated with the red arrow) are made out of some strange material that solder won't stick to."


"Why not sacrifice a Sony controller? Good question. This is what I did at first, since I didn't like the way the Sony D-pad feels. The problem is that the PCB in the Sony pad is very, very delicate. There are no nice big patches of solder to connect your wires to, and it's easy to damage the board. Pull a little too hard on a soldered-on wire and you can pull a patch of solder right off the PCB, which can also break the trace underneath - and that can be fatal. In contrast, the Mad Katz and High Frequency pads (which seem to be nearly if not completely identical inside) have huge tracts of copper and solder on the PCB, making them very easy to work with. Illustrative photos are available. "

RetroJames

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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #97 on: December 14, 2004, 10:27:13 pm »
In a couple of posts there is talk about an "auto fire" button.  Any ideas on how to accomplish that?

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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #98 on: December 14, 2004, 10:39:33 pm »
FYI, R1 and R2 are frequently used for fire buttons, they may need to be moved to the topside of the CP, within reach of the joysticks, possibly near wherever the x button will be.

Arcadiac - R1 and R2 are the right shoulder buttons correct?

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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #99 on: December 14, 2004, 11:38:10 pm »

Arcadiac - R1 and R2 are the right shoulder buttons correct?

Yes they are.

Arcadiac

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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #100 on: December 15, 2004, 12:10:20 am »
Sorry about Snapfish images, bad idea.
Here are direct links to where I've uploaded the pix:

http://www.geocities.com/harassler/PS2DualShockBasics1.jpg

http://www.geocities.com/harassler/Unreal1.jpg

http://www.geocities.com/harassler/Pelican1.jpg

http://www.geocities.com/harassler/pelican2.jpg

I'll send 2 sticks and some other goodies out priority mail later today for seamonkey to take to Sean when he visits.  Thanks again all!  ARCADIAC!

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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #101 on: December 15, 2004, 07:20:37 am »
Arcadiac's pics reminded me - the analog sticks also act as a button when pressed down, so we probably need to add two more buttons to the panel . . . .
It's not what you take when you leave this world behind you, it's what you leave behind you when you go. - R. Travis.
When all is said and done, generally much more is SAID than DONE.

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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #102 on: December 15, 2004, 09:15:48 am »
Arcadiac's pics reminded me - the analog sticks also act as a button when pressed down, so we probably need to add two more buttons to the panel . . . .


Akkk...and they used to say Defender had too many buttons....what, are kids nowadays growing extra appendages?

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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #103 on: December 15, 2004, 09:23:29 am »
Akkk...and they used to say Defender had too many buttons....what, are kids nowadays growing extra appendages?  Cripes.
That's also why I was initially saying MAME might be a better option for this.
It's not what you take when you leave this world behind you, it's what you leave behind you when you go. - R. Travis.
When all is said and done, generally much more is SAID than DONE.

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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #104 on: December 15, 2004, 09:26:20 am »
Arcadiac's pics reminded me - the analog sticks also act as a button when pressed down, so we probably need to add two more buttons to the panel . . . .

Ahhh, good catch, I totally forgot about that. A lot of games don't use that function, but a few do.

-S
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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #105 on: December 15, 2004, 09:27:16 am »
Akkk...and they used to say Defender had too many buttons....what, are kids nowadays growing extra appendages?

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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #106 on: December 15, 2004, 09:33:21 am »
Akkk...and they used to say Defender had too many buttons....what, are kids nowadays growing extra appendages?  Cripes.
That's also why I was initially saying MAME might be a better option for this.
What kind of input(s) are often or generally transmitted by depressing the analog sticks?  i.e what does it do?
Intentional Walk in MLB 2004 is L1 and R3 (Left upper shoulder button and Right analog stick press).  I don't play too many PS2 games b/c they all have too many combinations to keep up with  :P
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SeanControls - New Images
« Reply #107 on: December 15, 2004, 10:06:43 am »
.

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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #108 on: December 15, 2004, 10:11:28 am »
So I went back to the two left joys, one for the left analog stick, the other for the d-pad.

Also, added the beanbag.

I am trying something new with the shoulder buttons, idea being that Sean can move his arms forward to hit the buttons with his knuckles.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2004, 10:14:40 am by 1hookedspacecadet »

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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #109 on: December 15, 2004, 10:32:18 am »
I think that's a much better placement of the shoulder buttons.

-S
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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #110 on: December 15, 2004, 10:37:23 am »
>EDIT - Just noticed that if the new shoulder button layout works I can put the right wrist >button on an angle as well which may be easier to use for Sean.

Agreed.

>Sean - Regarding your thumb usage, do you think you could manage to depress a >button ontop of the joysticks if needed to emulate the PS2 analog sticks being pushed >down?

Two things - On the PS2 pads, the entire stick is pressed, not a button on top of the stick.  A top fire button would be easier to fab.  Depending on Sean's mobility, he might be able to palm the joystick and press a top-fire button with his palm?




Quote
It's not what you take when you leave this world behind you, it's what you leave behind you when you go. - R. Travis.
When all is said and done, generally much more is SAID than DONE.

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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #111 on: December 15, 2004, 10:46:44 am »


Two things - On the PS2 pads, the entire stick is pressed, not a button on top of the stick.

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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #112 on: December 15, 2004, 11:45:12 am »
Again, not to dash Sean's hopes ( I've heard of some people doing some awfully amazinging things with incredible disabilities)  but I want to throw out again that we may be setting the bar a little high here -

I.e. - Basically a console system and controller with 8 analog buttons, a d-pad, and two analog joysticks (plus two additional buttons) may be a little much to expect for someone with wrist movement, but limited hand movement and limited sensation of pressure being applied.

OTOH, If you basically took 1HSC's design and made it with two digital joysticks and an encoder, you would have perfect control for Joust, Robotron, Galaga, PacMan, Metal Slug, etc.

Sean - Do not take this the wrong way.  I have full use of my hands and I realized long ago I lacked the co-ordination for games with more than really one joystick and two buttons, so I stick to games like the above and avoid Street Fighter, etc.
It's not what you take when you leave this world behind you, it's what you leave behind you when you go. - R. Travis.
When all is said and done, generally much more is SAID than DONE.

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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #113 on: December 15, 2004, 11:58:24 am »
The Pelican stick does not have that function, however it is used in very few games by my experience.

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More Designs
« Reply #114 on: December 15, 2004, 01:15:14 pm »
With the top fire buttons, right wrist button on an angle, bigger admin buttons.


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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #115 on: December 15, 2004, 01:25:34 pm »
Its looking real good so far guys...

Just a thought, has anyone considered something like a virtual reality glove for this project. I'm sure one could be built and could control mame but not sure how easily it could be used.

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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #116 on: December 15, 2004, 01:34:55 pm »
Its looking real good so far guys...

Just a thought, has anyone considered something like a virtual reality glove for this project. I'm sure one could be built and could control mame but not sure how easily it could be used.  Fingers could control the buttons, while moving the wrist could control the joystick.

Just an idea my 8 year old son mentioned after I explained to him about Sean's condition, this thread and how people on the forum were rallying behind this project.


I think it is a very interesting idea, but I would have no idea where to start.  Thank your son for the suggestion though.  Maybe it is an idea for the 2006 version... ;D
I would not dismiss this out-of-hand (oops, bad pun, unintentional).  Seriously, I have no idea how one of these works, but it would be good to mention to Sean and see what he thinks.
It's not what you take when you leave this world behind you, it's what you leave behind you when you go. - R. Travis.
When all is said and done, generally much more is SAID than DONE.

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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #117 on: December 15, 2004, 02:43:44 pm »
Let me say that the effort being putforth is simply impressive.   Maybe the donations which have been submitted can be kept ongoing so other people in similar circumstances can benefit as well.   Basically, have a waiting list of people who would like to have a custom control panel built for them and simply go down the list accomodating each individual one specifically.   I believe I read in this post of another person stating they tried to find a controller for someone in a similiar situation but had no luck..........

As for the current project for Sean.....

Do you think the button which can be pressed by the right forearm might get pressed accidently when using the right hand joystick?  Basically, if his motor skills are not that precise then moving the right joystick might also result in his right forearm pressing the button at undesirable times.  Also, if the forearm button was going to used as the "main" button for games (ie: firing, jumping), then it also might be quite hard to continuely use your forearm to press the button somewhat rapidly while moving the joystick as well.  Keep in mind I have never played PS2 games so I am not familiar with the buttons which are used.

Anyway, a solution to this (or simply another a way of adding extra button to use) would be to have a button useable by the foot.  Maybe like a foot pedal although you would not need to press the pedal completely down, just simply touch it a bit to activate to button.  The foot could easily be used to fire rapidly.  Not sure if a foot type button is needed (or whether a foot button could even be used in his case), but I thought I would mention it as a possibility.

Good job everyone.


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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #118 on: December 15, 2004, 04:08:40 pm »
...Maybe the donations which have been submitted can be kept ongoing so other people in similar circumstances can benefit as well.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2004, 04:23:45 pm by Jabba »
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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #119 on: December 15, 2004, 04:14:44 pm »
Another thought, the "eye toy" for the PS2 might be a good thing to add to the X-mas package.  It'd a webcam-like addition that allows for interaction with the games (such as a simple boxing game) and from what I have seen playing with the thing at the local Walmart, it doesn't require any fine motor movements, only gross motor which Sean is capable of.

I will make a cash donation to the project on Friday and I would still be willing to hack together a webpage for the project if so desired.

--Dweebs

  
 

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