YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!

[Mameotron]

oh, and i think jabba is right- it was bill hicks.

Sigh....

OK, maybe Bill Hicks said that, too.  I don't know who originally came up with it, but here is where Sam says it, circa 1990.


http://music.barnesandnoble.com/search/product.asp?userid=UH0bn0QATD&EAN=75992574822&ITM=2

BTW, the sample you can download doesn't include that, so you'll have to take my word that it is in there.

[Dexter]

Perhaps in an ideal world people wouldn't drink alcohol or do drugs, but then I don't think I'd like to live in that ideal world.

Yeah, you won't live longer, it just SEEMS like it!

Take it from a person who lives in a culture rife with alcoholism, there are worse things than soft drugs. Education and legalisation is the way to go, holland rocks in this respect. I was at a rave where a young girl actually drowned from drinking so much water. At the time the education was to 'drink lots of water', which the girl and her friends were doing, as instructed. After this incident, official literature was changed to 'sip a pint of water every hour'. One example of many. The main problem is drilling it into kids in school "DRUGS KILL", "HEROIN, POT, COCAINE are just some drugs", then the kids grow up seeing soft drugs being used regularly without anybody dying, another example. Educate on the types of drugs, effects, side effects, everything. Arm children for what they face instead of misinforming them.

[Floyd10]

I think people here need to see requiem for a dream. I only did pot. I would never have dreamed of doing anything harder, because it does f*** you up. Pot is tamer. and once again, i wasn't going to do it for much longer. but people keep saying: DRUGS ARE EVIL!!! OH MY GOD!!! I feel absolutely no different, and the high isnt worth ruining my friendship with my mom. Dont call tis a f***ing revelation, because it was my previous stance.

[DrewKaree]

you guys that have said you used to do drugs but now don't and are warning floyd of the dangers. you are proof that drugs don't just turn you into useless stoners for life.

erm.....your "proof" assumes I'm not useless.  

My major use in life is to hold open doors (a doorstop, as it were), and depending on the door, I'm pretty piss poor at it.

However, it is not the job of government to tell people they can't do these things if they choose.  Government should not be some sort of surrogate parent telling people how to live their lives.

man that sounds good.  Wait, do you mean a parent like as in "dad, can I borrow 5(hundred dollars)?  Or the kind of parent as in "son, you can't buy that gun, because I don't want you to have it".

Is that one of those "gray areas" I've heard about?

[Floyd10]

BTW Cutting yourself (which I dont advocate, and is far worse than pot in terms of damage, and everything else) is legal, yet pot isnt. Smoking is legal, pot isnt.

This doesnt make much sense.

and cant a gun aimed at your mouth do more damage than a joint?

Legalising and advocation are 2 different things. Guns are legal, but do we encourage everyone to shoot people?

[DaveMMR]

Sigh.... it's not a political thread at least...

Marijuana should be legal, whether you love it or hate it.  I say it only because, in everyday society, I'd rather deal with a pothead than an alcoholic.

Let me explain.  People high on pot are generally quieter, less agressive, more laidback and show more attention at trying to hide their condition (paranoia).  Often times my friends would be high and I wouldn't know until hours later when he/she told me.  

Drunk people on the other hand are loud, more agressive, prone to fits of violence, and have no problem generally being disruptive.  You can tell when someone's loaded from a mile away.

(Of course, that's just generalization but, on average, that's how I've seen people act on those substances.)

BTW Cutting yourself (which I dont advocate, and is far worse than pot in terms of damage, and everything else) is legal, yet pot isnt. Smoking is legal, pot isnt.

This doesnt make much sense.

and cant a gun aimed at your mouth do more damage than a joint?

Comparing apples to oranges... or in this case, weapons to recreational drugs.  

[geomartin]

Not that I advocate legalising pot, because I do not, but aren't the schools running around trying to medicate every little boy who shows an ounce of testosterone with ritalin?  The schools make mood altering drugs available to children for free, as long as it is thier drugs

[Floyd10]

I know people who have gotten hooked on ritalin from ppl who sell it in our school... its sad, really

[Crazy Cooter]

"in everyday society, I'd rather deal with a pothead than an alcoholic"
This is true... Even I have never been punched by a stoner.
"I know people who have gotten hooked on ritalin from ppl who sell it in our school"
Is that stuff even addictive?  It wasn't around (that I know of) when I was in school.

[danny_galaga]

Danny, you can't make this relative to other problems. Comparing one problem to an unrelated problem.  It's a sad story you write about this 16 year old. I've seen that too.  You didn't mention if the father was an addict. Drugs could have been the cause for a lot of this over and over. Drugs or drinking. Intoxicants in general.

Another good reason to keep new intoxicants out of the public domain.  We can't control what we have that's already legal.

The only thing I hear from the other side in this issue is - well if you want to screw up your own life, go right ahead. Life sucks then you die.  Be free to kill yourself.  What does it matter?

Come on. It does matter. It matters to people around you who care for you.  We have to something.  Doing nothing is not an option.  There is no future or upside to it.

um, yeah. her family was old money. he was a doctor or an architect or something. her mum was a teacher. he was addicted all right, addicted to abusing his daughter. that's not what you want to hear though, is it? you want to imagine that she must have been trailer trash and so was bound to have a hard life. not deserved, but not surprising because her father was addicted to something hard-core as well. that it was the DRUG that lead to her problems, not society.
as i say, a lot of you even after it's been pointed out are missing the point. why did she take heroin? it wasn't just from hanging out with the wrong crowd, was it? if there were no illegal drugs around at all, she probably would have become an alcoholic instead. ended up being a bag lady or something and would have had no brain left. instead she did junk and had a hellish life. but at least her brain is intact. she' s a grief councellor now. even better would have been a society that could confront the horror of what her father did. one that could catch him out a lot earlier.
everyone loves statistics. well here's an interesting one. roughly one in four women will be abused as a child. and up to one in ten men. does that not make you sick? personally, at least two of my girlfriends were molested as children, and two others i had my suspicions about. are you ready to spend billions on a war on rape and child abuse? but what's the proportion of junkies to 'normal' people? not anywhere near as alarming. if you think it is alarming, i'm sad for you that you think the welfare of children is less important.
and what i'm talking about isn't the only reason people try and solve their problems with booze and/or drugs. the whole thing is a big grey area (that should get drews attention again   )for instance, one of my stoner friends had a very strict upbringing (again middle-class). father would never let him do any fun things or buy him much in the way of toys like his friends. my parents didn't buy me many toys either, but they DID teach me to be creative to amuse myself. he started smoking when he left home at 18 and hasn't stopped since. he's a guy. it's not at all macho to just let it all out to your mates. gotta bottle it up and be a man. by abusing himself like that he is saying 'i'll show you'. he tries to punish the world through himself. he drinks too. so if there were no illegal drugs, i actually think he would do himself (and potentially others) MORE harm by drinking even more.

to quote you again, fredster "Come on. It does matter. It matters to people around you who care for you.  We have to something.  Doing nothing is not an option.  There is no future or upside to it." you are absolutely right. but fighting a war on drugs is like losing your keys in a dark alleyway and then going out to the well-lit street to look for them because you can see more easily. the answer is back in that dark alleyway.

[danny_galaga]

just to clarify something. my examples are extreme ones to show how people can go to extremes to kill the pain. im not suggesting floyd or others here have had such a bad childhood. in fact, the fact that you're all here chatting on a 'geeky' forum shows you are probably not having any on-going problems with drugs.
floyd is young. kids experiment (except for me, i still feel like i missed out!). most kids that experiment have a fairly normal life. problems with drugs arise when there are problems with your life. fix those social problems and you will have very few drug problems...

one other clarification. i DO believe governments should go after the 'mr bigs' of the drug world. but they will only need to do that until societies problems are addressed. take away the demand, and the suppliers will fade away too. well, go back to raqueteering anyway

[locash]

However, it is not the job of government to tell people they can't do these things if they choose.  Government should not be some sort of surrogate parent telling people how to live their lives.

man that sounds good.  Wait, do you mean a parent like as in "dad, can I borrow 5(hundred dollars)?  Or the kind of parent as in "son, you can't buy that gun, because I don't want you to have it".

Is that one of those "gray areas" I've heard about?

Neither of those is an acceptable role for government.

Which of those choices sounded good to you?  

[DrewKaree]

"I know people who have gotten hooked on ritalin from ppl who sell it in our school"
Is that stuff even addictive?  It wasn't around (that I know of) when I was in school.

Its effects are night and day depending on the type of person you are.

If you are the type who is "hyper", for lack of a better word, then it serves to "slow things down" and calm/settle that person down.

If you are the calm type, it is an upper.

Dunno why the drug works like that, but if you know someone who has it, read the side effects for some crazy juxtapositions - my daughter requires it, without it, she's so scatterbrained, hyper, and short-tempered it's like living with 5 women with PMS and no Midol in the house.

[DrewKaree]

Neither of those is an acceptable role for government.

Which of those choices sounded good to you?  

Neither choice is acceptable to me, but society has made those two choices our government's responsibility.  I'm all for working those things out first, then worry about this "little stuff" second.

I'm a big fan of prioritization by the government.  I also realize there's a slim to none possibility that it will ever happen.

[teef two]

I've seen the example of the Netherlands used a lot here and I'd just like to point out that an awful lot of the rising crime there is not due to the liberal drugs policy but more to do with the liberal immigration policy. Right now there is an awful lot of racial tension in Holland. Just said this to put some perspective on it.

Oh, and a minor rant here. I always see in these kind of discussions the example of "Well, you shouldn't want drugs legalised because the surgeon performing your operation might be stoned". Utter nonsense. The surgeon could quite as easily be drunk. Neither is acceptable.

What it all boils down to is self-control. If you can teach that to society then you go an awful long way to stopping the drugs problem. I like a drink, I also like an occasional smoke. I couldn't do either all the time and continue to contribute to society. So I don't. 99% of the time I prefer to be straight. Every now and then I like to get a little bit drunk - because I find it enjoyable. The same goes for a smoke. Frankly if I did either all the time then I would cease to enjoy it completely.

I can see the reasons for both sides of the argument but one thing I cannot stand in the sanctimonious attitude that I must be an evil person because of my "so called" vices. It's the same attitude that says "If you're not my religion then you must be an unfulfilled person".

However, whatever the arguments for and against, one thing is irrefutable. Drugs have been available to humanity for a very, very long time. People have done drugs, people are doing drugs, people will continue doing drugs. There is no possible way that will ever, ever stop. You can't stop it, you sure as hell can't control it without losing a grip on so much else that is more important. So the only posible way forward is to educate in the effects and downsides of extended abuse of drugs. Anything else, regardless of the legislature of your particular Government, is just pi**ing in the wind.

Rant over for the day.

[danny_galaga]

someone how teef two just reminded me of another example i can pose. in some of the remote communities in australia there are high rates of unemployment and depression. how do the kids cope? some of them sniff petrol, or glue. as teef says, people will always do drugs. many in moderation, but people with problems will abuse. if something more suitable is not available then people will turn to some rather nasty alternatives. if you can't ever completely stop the flow of illicit drug production (i mean, they can't even keep it out of prisons!), how the hell can you stop people using petrol or glue? right now, they've developed a petrol for the communities that doesn't get you high (the aromatics are different). what does it matter. some nasty piece of work is just going to start bringing in good old fashioned petrol and sell it at a premium to users. thanks BP for creating a new kind of drug pusher!!
 again, it comes down to addressing the problems that lead kids to substance abuse.

[locash]

I'm a big fan of prioritization by the government.  I also realize there's a slim to none possibility that it will ever happen.

Huh?  What's being prioritized?

[DrewKaree]

What it all boils down to is self-control. If you can teach that to society then you go an awful long way to stopping the drugs problem.

in this day and age of passing personal responsibility onto someone else so a person can do what they want, or make enormous sums of money due to their own stupidity, your idea is "pie-in-the-sky" thinking.

While I like pie, and agree with your premise, it's simply never again going to happen.  When someone can make millions from McD's because they didn't sufficiently label a product that is, has, and will continue to be, enjoyed in it's HOT form - something, btw, that could be ascertained simply by grabbing the cup and noticing, "hey, that stuff's warm" - then our personal responsibility and self-control in other areas will be pushed until we no longer bear any responsibility for our actions.  

When simple hand irons cease to require the warning "Caution - do not iron clothes while on your body", THAT will be the day I see self-control and responsibility for your own actions coming back.  

Look around.  The government is working to legislate away personal responsibility all the time.

[locash]

"We've been tempted to believe that society has become too complex to be managed by self-rule, that government by an elite group is superior to government for, by, and of the people. Well, if no one among us is capable of government himself, then who among us has the capacity to govern someone else?"
  --  Ronald Reagan

I couldn't have said it better

[Floyd10]

you know what? Ive seen the errors of my ways. I am going to flush out all peopel who have used or do use drugs:

Pink floyd, Led Zepplin, The Beatles, Jesus Christ, Placebo, Korn, KMFDM, Chuck Berry, The Rolling Stones, Mozart, Bach, Beethoven, Slipknot, Bob Marley, Ziggy Marley, Sublime, Alice In Chains, Nirvana, George W. Bush, Janis Jopplin, Jimmi Hendrix. (Just to name a few) of course drugs never enhanced them, and they don't contribute a thing to society. In fact, they've ruined their lives and the lives of everyone around them from their use. Everyone here's right


(removes tongue out of cheek)

[DrewKaree]

                                                             


       



                                   

[Floyd10]

forget drug abuse. thats clear smiley abuse

[DrewKaree]

forget drug abuse. thats clear smiley abuse

                         
         
                       

and there's more where that came from!

Guess we told him, right dude?

               



 

[Floyd10]

hahaha. *smokes some more oregano*

(paying homage to the drew )

[Dartful Dodger]

you know what? Ive seen the errors of my ways. I am going to flush out all peopel who have used or do use drugs:

...

In fact, they've ruined their lives and the lives of everyone around them from their use. Everyone here's right

You are not them, you are just kid that got busted and can't spell people.

Good luck.

[Floyd10]

you know what? Ive seen the errors of my ways. I am going to flush out all peopel who have used or do use drugs:

...

In fact, they've ruined their lives and the lives of everyone around them from their use. Everyone here's right

You are not them, you are just kid that got busted and can't spell people.

Good luck.

youve missed my entire point. people here keep going on about how drugs ruin everyones lives if they touch them. heres my proof that it doesnt.

[Zakk]

Hey!  My thumb is huuuuuuuge.  Oh man, it looks like the walls are melting!  This is the BEST gravy I have EVER eaten!  DAMN you scared me sneaking up on me like that!!!!  Dude, mind the 3 T's if you don't mind.  Whoa, spinach.  

 

[locash]

youve missed my entire point. people here keep going on about how drugs ruin everyones lives if they touch them. heres my proof that it doesnt.

That was your point?!  A number of people on your list died as a direct result of drug or alcohol abuse.  And how did Jesus make this list?  

[Floyd10]

It was proven that Jesus used it to heal the lame and the blind. Lemme look for the news link again

[Floyd10]

some links:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,869273,00.html

http://www.cannabisnews.com/news/thread15121.shtml

http://www.cannabisculture.com/articles/2803.html

http://www.hemp.co.uk/html/bbc0103.html

[Dartful Dodger]

It was proven that Jesus used it to heal the lame and the blind. Lemme look for the news link again

Who cares.

My point was your point is pointless.

You are not Jesus.  Drugs will not help you.

[Floyd10]

... ---gosh-darn--- it, please just leave. ur frustrating me (although that was probably YOUR point)

[DrewKaree]

Nor will they make your splelign any bteter - although YOUR drug will make your pizza and pasta dishes taste better!
 

[Floyd10]

^^ Im sorry, are YOU on weed?

[DrewKaree]

^^ Im sorry, are YOU on weed?

No, but I DID stay at a Holiday Inn last night!

They give you a free baggie of oregano and a steamroller upon checkin, and I proceeded to get BAKED _{potatoes for supper}.

                   

[Floyd10]

all of your pics are xed

[rockhopper]

all of your pics are xed

That'd be the weed talking again, everyone else can see them clearly

[geomartin]

Maybe we should examine the list again.  Janis Joplin and Jimmy Hendrix both are dead because of thier drug addictions!  

[patrickl]

That Reagan quote was pretty cool. It's always funny that the right wing people are always so much for "freedom". But then when it comes to actually making a stand for giving people the freedom to choose for themselves, "the people" are considered too stupid and the right wing/religeous people feel they need to decide what's best for everyone. Everyone is free to do whatever they like as long as the right wing nutters agree with what you are doing.

Besides they should stick a caution notice on lawyers "CAUTION: Frequent use will destroy society" and make it a really big one (stuck on with with lethal pins) and the problem will go away pretty soon.

[teef two]

Right, I think this thread has now run it's natural course. Time to move on to something else. I don't believe there is any further purpose in prolonging this as all opinions have now be clearly stated. All that'll happen now is we'll descend slowly into point scoring.

So the call goes out for this thread - TAXI!