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Author Topic: YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!  (Read 12587 times)

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Floyd10

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YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« on: November 12, 2004, 09:20:45 pm »
I got busted at school for parephernalia possesion. I almost got arrested for possesion, but my newest transaction was oregano, so i got off scott free. I was planning to quit, and I havent done it alot, and I still got busted. what the *explecative here*. Its not fair. My mom's lividX10, and my stepdad kept asking me how much it costs. Well, whatelse is new?

paigeoliver

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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2004, 09:45:20 pm »
Um, wow, maybe you shouldn't do drugs then.  

I hate drugs. I hate people who sell drugs. I hate people who buy drugs. I hate people who send the "drugs are cool" message to teenagers.

I have seen so many ruined lives. So many hurt children. So many broken marriages. So many people who throw everything away. So many people who never accomplish ANYTHING with their life other than getting high.

And that is just from pot. I wasn't even talking about the harder drugs.

You'll get no sympathy from me, perhaps some jail time could have done you some good.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2004, 09:47:16 pm by paigeoliver »
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Floyd10

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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2004, 09:56:32 pm »
Its just the whole, ppl do it for 25 years and never get caught, I do it a few, and I do. Im just kinda pissed

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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2004, 10:25:45 pm »
Take it as a hint from a higher power that it's time to quit before you do yourself serious damage to your life....
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Floyd10

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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2004, 10:32:56 pm »
I was planning to

shmokes

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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2004, 12:40:31 am »
I think that marijuana should be legalized and that harder drugs should be decriminalized -- treated as a public health epidemic.
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paigeoliver

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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2004, 12:54:59 am »
I think that marijuana should be legalized and that harder drugs should be decriminalized -- treated as a public health epidemic.

I'd be more along the lines of thinking death penalty for possession, with same day executions. There would be no drug problem after about 10 days, in the long term many, many, many lives would be saved.  Heck, even in the short term more lives would be saved. How many days of watching drug users being lined up against the wall and shot would it take for the entire drug problem to vanish and the distribution chains to fall apart? I say about 4 days.

Marijuana may not be particularly dangerous physically, but it is still a terrible social problem. I know plenty of people who have ruined, or who are ruining their lives with pot, and without ever getting tangled up with the law.
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shmokes

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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2004, 01:23:21 am »
Gimme a break.

Religion, particularly the Christian religion, has taken exponentially more lives than drugs.  How many lives have been ruined by things like, say, genocide?  If we apply your self-righteous philosophy across the board maybe it should be possession of bibles that gets you shot.  Or would that put you up agains the wall?

BTW, I think marijuana should be legalized and other drugs decriminalized because that would reduce our drug problem, not because I do drugs.  I don't (except alcohol -- which, btw, I think is WAY more harmful/dangerous than marijuana).
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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2004, 01:38:42 am »
Ditto, if religion and alcohol were banned ( or had never existed ) imagine what an amazing world we would be living in. Just think about it for a while.

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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2004, 01:40:32 am »
Marijuana may not be particularly dangerous physically, but it is still a terrible social problem. I know plenty of people who have ruined, or who are ruining their lives with pot, and without ever getting tangled up with the law.

The same argument could be made for alcohol, and possibly any number of other things.  Regulation and personal responsibility are key.  Likely these same people who are ruining their lives with pot would be doing the same with something else (be it alcohol or just some other variety of self-destructive behavior) if the pot wasn't around...  In those cases, it's generally a symptom rather than the problem itself.
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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2004, 01:47:55 am »
Ditto, if religion and alcohol were banned ( or had never existed ) imagine what an amazing world we would be living in. Just think about it for a while.

Imagine

Imagine there's no heaven,
It's easy if you try,
No hell below us,
Above us only sky,
Imagine all the people
living for today...

Imagine there's no countries,
It isnt hard to do,
Nothing to kill or die for,
No religion too,
Imagine all the people
living life in peace...

Imagine no possesions,
I wonder if you can,
No need for greed or hunger,
A brotherhood of man,
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world...

You may say Im a dreamer,
but Im not the only one,
I hope some day you'll join us,
And the world will live as one.


GGKoul

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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2004, 01:48:52 am »
Floyd, how old are you?  Aren't you under 18?  Lucky your not thrown in jail.

shmokes

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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2004, 02:16:55 am »
Ditto, if religion and alcohol were banned ( or had never existed ) imagine what an amazing world we would be living in. Just think about it for a while.

Imagine

Imagine there's no heaven,
It's easy if you try,
No hell below us,
Above us only sky,
Imagine all the people
living for today...

Imagine there's no countries,
It isnt hard to do,
Nothing to kill or die for,
No religion too,
Imagine all the people
living life in peace...

Imagine no possesions,
I wonder if you can,
No need for greed or hunger,
A brotherhood of man,
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world...

You may say Im a dreamer,
but Im not the only one,
I hope some day you'll join us,
And the world will live as one.



Nah....put 'em all up against a wall.  This all reminds me of the song In the Flesh from Pink Floyd's The Wall

Are there any queers in the theatre tonight?
Get 'em up against the wall. -- 'Gainst the wall!
And that one in the spotlight, he don't look right to me.
Get him up against the wall. -- 'Gainst the wall!
And that one looks Jewish, and that one's a coon.
Who let all this riffraff into the room?
There's one smoking a joint, and another with spots!
If I had my way I'd have all of ya shot.
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Yander

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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2004, 07:39:45 am »
We should deal with harder drugs similarly to how china dealt with opium addiction. You have 5 years to quit. After 5 years anyone spotted with drugs will be shot on site. Of course this isn't practical and is dangerous.

danny_galaga

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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2004, 08:12:18 am »
We should deal with harder drugs similarly to how china dealt with opium addiction. You have 5 years to quit. After 5 years anyone spotted with drugs will be shot on site. Of course this isn't practical and is dangerous.

the funny thing about that is, that it was the english who introduced opium to china. convo:

england: lets trade!!
china: yeah sure, watcha got?
england: cotton...
china: got that , what else?
england: wool?
china: pass...
england: steam engines?
china: we'll make our own thanks
england: well, what then?
china: well, we kinda dig gold...
england: ha! so do we, wise-boy.
china: well, seeya then...

*england then introduces opium from india to china. selling it underground for gold*

england: hey, we're back. we got you some gold!
china: hmmmm. well, ok then...

for the modern day, replace the term 'gold' with greenback  ;)




ROUGHING UP THE SUSPECT SINCE 1981

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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #15 on: November 13, 2004, 08:15:28 am »
I got busted at school for parephernalia possesion. I almost got arrested for possesion, but my newest transaction was oregano, so i got off scott free. I was planning to quit, and I havent done it alot, and I still got busted. what the *explecative here*. Its not fair. My mom's lividX10, and my stepdad kept asking me how much it costs. Well, whatelse is new?

so how much DOES it cost? and i can't believe you didn't sniff that oregano...


ROUGHING UP THE SUSPECT SINCE 1981

paigeoliver

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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #16 on: November 13, 2004, 08:27:08 am »
Gimme a break.

Religion, particularly the Christian religion, has taken exponentially more lives than drugs.  How many lives have been ruined by things like, say, genocide?  If we apply your self-righteous philosophy across the board maybe it should be possession of bibles that gets you shot.  Or would that put you up agains the wall?

BTW, I think marijuana should be legalized and other drugs decriminalized because that would reduce our drug problem, not because I do drugs.  I don't (except alcohol -- which, btw, I think is WAY more harmful/dangerous than marijuana).

My anti-drug stances are totally unrelated to my religous beliefs.  I held to my firm anti-drug stance even when I was in full on rebelling against god mode.

As for your idea about killing bible holders. That day will come, that day will come. It is in the bible. Anyway, true christianity isn't killing anyone at all. . That was the Catholic Church, which is a similar, but distinct religion. When you get down to actual beliefs and details catholicism is as far from protestant christian beliefs as muslim beliefs are.
Acceptance of Zen philosophy is marred slightly by the nagging thought that if all things are interconnected, then all things must be in some way involved with Pauly Shore.

Zakk

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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #17 on: November 13, 2004, 10:22:11 am »
I'm with paigoliver on this one, I was in a 'group' that did nothing much else in high school than smoke up.  Day in and day out, pot, hash, oil.  'Nutty butty' was 3 rolling papers smeared with oil, sprinkled with has and filled with weed.  Sure, it was a blast at the time, but of that oh say 10 guys, there are 5 that I know of that are still doing it, and of them, 4 of them still live at home at 35, and the other (who was a smart guy), well his last brainstorm was to raise mice to sell to pet shops so that he could sit home and smoke and not have to work. He started down his road to financial independance with 2 mice.  Hey, 2 mice don't have that many babies!

Moral of the story: They say that dope isn't harmful?  Bull****.  The guys into it are not right in the head.  Even from my own perspective, I have trouble putting a sentence together without sounding like Ozzy Osbourne sometimes, and I used to be the most articulate person.  It DOES do damage.  I think it takes years to notice the change, but it is there.  Smarten up when you're young and leave it be. (and jeez, oregano only smells like pot when it's lit, it doesn't even look like it!!)
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Floyd10

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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #18 on: November 13, 2004, 10:23:37 am »
I got it in school. I couldnt have checked it

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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #19 on: November 13, 2004, 10:39:47 am »
...
« Last Edit: November 13, 2004, 10:41:14 am by whammoed »

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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #20 on: November 13, 2004, 10:47:21 am »
"I'd be more along the lines of thinking death penalty for possession, with same day executions."

That's terrible. Then the death penalty could be given for pratically anything. We don't live in some third world dictatorship. If people want to do drugs, thats fine. But they'll have to deal with the consequences. We all make our own choices in life, and we also suffer our own fates.

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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #21 on: November 13, 2004, 11:13:48 am »
Well I know one more thing now Floyd (besides the fact that my whole morality story was completely lost on you), I know that smoking oregano affects your vision (based upon your huge meaningless sig pictures).

YES, YES, YOU ARE A MUSIC THIEF AND LIKE RED SQIGGLES WE GET IT!!
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Floyd10

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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #22 on: November 13, 2004, 12:30:47 pm »
Well I know one more thing now Floyd (besides the fact that my whole morality story was completely lost on you), I know that smoking oregano affects your vision (based upon your huge meaningless sig pictures).

YES, YES, YOU ARE A MUSIC THIEF AND LIKE RED SQIGGLES WE GET IT!!

I would very much apreciate it if you didnt attack me on a personal level.

shmokes

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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #23 on: November 13, 2004, 01:20:06 pm »
My anti-drug stances are totally unrelated to my religous beliefs.  I held to my firm anti-drug stance even when I was in full on rebelling against god mode.

As for your idea about killing bible holders. That day will come, that day will come. It is in the bible. Anyway, true christianity isn't killing anyone at all. . That was the Catholic Church, which is a similar, but distinct religion. When you get down to actual beliefs and details catholicism is as far from protestant christian beliefs as muslim beliefs are.

You miss my point Paige.  I'm not saying that you have to be religious to be a fascist.  I'm saying that by your standards Christians should be shot on sight.  Or Catholics.  Whatever.  The fact that you make a distinction scares me.  Like you wouldn't have a problem with my hypothetical "kill the bible carriers" as long as it's "just the catholics" that we shoot.  

I find it comical that you seem to think that you have some moral high-ground over the Catholics because your guys didn't participate in the Crusades (which was people killing other people for not agreeing with them) while at the same time you are right here advocating that we simply shoot people.  You protestants don't sound so different to me....

Anyway, learn some history.  If I'm not mistaken, Protestants played a bit of a role in a war that was so long and awful historians weren't able to come up with a more fitting name then just calling it by it's duration:  The Thirty Years War.
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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #24 on: November 13, 2004, 02:36:33 pm »
I got it in school. I couldnt have checked it
Dude, the smell is different!  

This only serves to prove further damage to our bodies by doing drugs - loss of smell.

Paraphenalia means what?  Did they hit you for a lighter, or did you have papers or a steamroller too?  I didn't have to get busted, like you did.  I was hanging ---my bottom--- out of a second story window when my idiot friend, playing with his butterfly knife, lost control of it, hitting the window, breaking it, sending ---my bottom--- out of it, into the tree, then the bushes, then the ground below.  I figured out very quickly after that to stop - it was turning us into idiots.  I still have those brain farts I now attribute to old-timers disease, but I wonder if it's just residual effects.

At your age, it'd be only a matter of time before you started getting fantasies of growing your own and cutting out the middleman - and THAT project makes BYOAC look like a cheap hobby!

Oh, and I was a year older than you when most of this happened.  Did you start ~14?  
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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #25 on: November 13, 2004, 02:44:11 pm »
My anti-drug stances are totally unrelated to my religous beliefs.  I held to my firm anti-drug stance even when I was in full on rebelling against god mode.

As for your idea about killing bible holders. That day will come, that day will come. It is in the bible. Anyway, true christianity isn't killing anyone at all. . That was the Catholic Church, which is a similar, but distinct religion. When you get down to actual beliefs and details catholicism is as far from protestant christian beliefs as muslim beliefs are.

You miss my point Paige.  I'm not saying that you have to be religious to be a fascist.  I'm saying that by your standards Christians should be shot on sight.  Or Catholics.  Whatever.  The fact that you make a distinction scares me.  Like you wouldn't have a problem with my hypothetical "kill the bible carriers" as long as it's "just the catholics" that we shoot.  

I find it comical that you seem to think that you have some moral high-ground over the Catholics because your guys didn't participate in the Crusades (which was people killing other people for not agreeing with them) while at the same time you are right here advocating that we simply shoot people.  You protestants don't sound so different to me....

Anyway, learn some history.  If I'm not mistaken, Protestants played a bit of a role in a war that was so long and awful historians weren't able to come up with a more fitting name then just calling it by it's duration:  The Thirty Years War.

I in no way think we should be killing anyone for religous reasons.

But drugs are a scourge on out society killing an incredible amount of people, and leaving even more people wasted and miserable. I have heard all the pro-drug arguements, but they are all meaningless because I have seen the results of long term drug use. I have first hand seen people spend their last $10 on pot instead of food for their children. I have seen a co-worker get his mobile home repossed because he was too far behind on the $150 monthly payments, all the while spending $350 a month on pot, booze, and smokes.
Acceptance of Zen philosophy is marred slightly by the nagging thought that if all things are interconnected, then all things must be in some way involved with Pauly Shore.

patrickl

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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #26 on: November 13, 2004, 04:26:15 pm »
Are soft drugs illegal? MUHAHAHAHAHAHHAA :P
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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #27 on: November 13, 2004, 04:28:17 pm »
I have seen a co-worker get his mobile home repossed because he was too far behind on the $150 monthly payments, all the while spending $350 a month on pot, booze, and smokes.
I'll bet the pot was the least of his problems. When I was young I'd spent maybe 3 euro on pot and 50 euro on booze (well we had guilders in those days, but still)
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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #28 on: November 13, 2004, 04:29:45 pm »
Well I've known loads of people who have taken pot (and occasionally harder drugs as well) and not one of them has come to any harm.

I guess they might have been lucky. But whether or not marijuana is harmful is beside the point. If you genuinely believe in a free society then you have to accept that people must be given the choice to do things that will possibly harm themselves.

All decisions are about risk vs reward. Some people make a judgement that the pleasure they get from drugs justifies the risks.

In any case most of the harm that drugs do to society stems from the fact that they are illegal. There were many heroin addicts in victorian times but the effect on society was much lower then than today because addicts didn't have to turn to criminals to get their fix. And the lower price of heroin (because it was readily available) meant that they didn't have to turn to crime themselves in order to pay for the stuff. Haven't we learnt anything from the prohibition era?

With regards to all the comments about marijuana ruining people's lives, I'm reminded of a quote from Jackie Brown (a very underrated film IMHO).


Ordell notices the bong in her hand and the smoke in the air.

ORDELL "Goddam, girl. You gettin' high already. It's only two o'clock".

Melanie smiles.

MELANIE "It's that late?"

Louis sits on the couch. He smiles at the comeback.

ORDELL "Ha-ha-ha. I'm serious, you smoke too much of that $hit. That $hit robs you of your ambition."

MELANIE "Not if your ambition is to get high and watch T.V."
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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #29 on: November 13, 2004, 04:30:23 pm »
My uncle started out as a pot head and then proceeded to suppliment it with alcohol and heroin. He's off it now, but he fried his brain and looks like he's about two hundred years old now. Now he needs a liver transplant and to be honest I don't think he deserves to get  priority over children on the donor list just because he'll die sooner without it.

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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #30 on: November 13, 2004, 05:44:28 pm »
I would very much apreciate it if you didnt attack me on a personal level.

Actually, it was on a sig level, and the new one, while still meaningless, is much smaller.  Good job.
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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #31 on: November 13, 2004, 06:42:26 pm »
I in no way think we should be killing anyone for religous reasons.

But drugs are a scourge on out society killing an incredible amount of people, and leaving even more people wasted and miserable. I have heard all the pro-drug arguements, but they are all meaningless because I have seen the results of long term drug use. I have first hand seen people spend their last $10 on pot instead of food for their children. I have seen a co-worker get his mobile home repossed because he was too far behind on the $150 monthly payments, all the while spending $350 a month on pot, booze, and smokes.

Ugghh....this is hard.

Paige, I know that YOU don't think we should be killing for religious reasons.  You want to kill muslims, christians, jews, budhists, hindus and jedi knights alike.  You think we should strip away that nuisance we call due process and kill for societal evils, such as drug use, not religion.  

What I am trying to illustrate to you by pointing to all the harm that religion has done to society, including christianity -- including protestantism, is that religion IS a societal evil.  It historically has been and continues to be.  Certainly you believe that the religion that you belong to deserves exemption from that mass generalization.  But I'm sure you'd agree that islamic fundamentalism continues to fall into this category.  

My point is that your "solution" to the problem could be applied to anything, depending on who gets to define what the "scourges of society" are.  You believe that drugs are the preeminate scourge, so you'll simply shoot all the drug users.  I, however, believe that religion has and continues to do FAR more harm than drug users, so when my people hold a majority, we'll outlaw religion and shoot on sight anyone observed to be associating themselves with it.

This is great.  Now....why exactly are we stopping with drug use?  I mean, obviously Paige is onto something here.  10 days to a complete elimination of illegal drug use.  NOW THAT'S SOMETHING!  Who knew it could be so easy.  A drug-free society sounds pretty good to me.  But you know what also sound good to me?  A society free of shoplifting.  And free of tax evasion.  And free of stinky people.  And free of people who don't use their turn signals.  And those irritating bums always begging for money.  And people who exceed the speed limit, endangering the lives of others.  And litter-bugs.  And people who play their music too loud.  And people who have possess illegal roms.

Who knew that all we need to do to acheive a completely crime-free utopia is arm police officers to the teeth, "adjust" their discretion, and then just eliminate the rest of our judicial system altogether.    A near-perfect society in 10 days.  

It's called fascism Paige, and as retarded as it is, it's not so retarded that it doesn't have any intuitive appeal.  Whole countries have used it many times throughout history.  It has always been used for the same reason that it appeals to you.  It seems to make no sense to have anything less than a zero-tolerance policy once you have identified something that is bad for society.  Because anything less only encourages the bad behavior, right?
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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #32 on: November 13, 2004, 08:08:36 pm »
 I still have those brain farts I now attribute to old-timers disease, but I wonder if it's just residual effects.

in your case, that's just you  ;D


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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #33 on: November 13, 2004, 08:22:34 pm »
Are soft drugs illegal? MUHAHAHAHAHAHHAA :P

ah, but remember, this is a country that tried to ban alcohol...


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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #34 on: November 13, 2004, 08:25:23 pm »
Quote
If people want to do drugs, thats fine. But they'll have to deal with the consequences. We all make our own choices in life, and we also suffer our own fates.

The problem is when the addiction really takes over and they cannot support their own habbit they turn to stealing things from others just to go get their fix. Then it starts effecting the innocent person that is working hard to get things he wants to only have them taken away from some worthless crack addict.......




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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #35 on: November 13, 2004, 08:43:06 pm »
Its just the whole, ppl do it for 25 years and never get caught, I do it a few, and I do. Im just kinda pissed

Maybe you should consider yourself lucky... now maybe you won't be like the ones doing it for 25 years.

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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #36 on: November 14, 2004, 04:29:57 pm »
I got busted at school for parephernalia possesion. I almost got arrested for possesion, but my newest transaction was oregano, so i got off scott free. I was planning to quit, and I havent done it alot, and I still got busted. what the *explecative here*. Its not fair. My mom's lividX10, and my stepdad kept asking me how much it costs. Well, whatelse is new?

Yeah Floyd, so I skipped over reading the other posts to give my thoughts.  Sorry if I'm echoing:

I ultimately believe that no one's going to sway your decision either way.  Nancy Reagan could come to your house with a sawed-off shotgun aimed at your temple, but ultimately it's going to be your choice.  Whatever it is, just keep it at home.  There's nothing 'trippy' about school, believe me.  

Marijuana is one of the tamer illegal drugs you can do.  That's not an endorsement, just stating a fact.  However, it is still against the law and when you take it outside your house (like school) you jeopardize a lot more than your body.  You jeopardize your enrollment and your freedom.  Dying is not the risk here - it's going to jail.

By the way, being a pothead is not something others look up to.  It's not like wrestling an alligator, taking a celebrity to the prom, or building an arcade cabinet.  Anyone could do it and people (those whose opinions matter most) see you as a burnout.  The only friends you'll have left are the shiftless, lazy types that do nothing but eat all the food in your pantry and borrow money from you every other day.  

I'm not going to lie, I've smoked pot many a time.  But the more I've done it the stupider I felt.  I go from a fairly 'on the ball' guy to a drooling moron in five minutes.  It's not pretty.  Besides, having my girlfriend not be ashamed of me is much more important than giggling at the wacky public access shows.  I know you're a musician and you support file sharing, but I only bring that up because I wanted to lecture you on drug use and pay tribute to your former, large signature in one fell swoop.  

BTW: Now that you have Or-eh-gah-no(?), how's about ordering a pizza?

 
« Last Edit: November 14, 2004, 04:36:03 pm by DaveMMR »

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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #37 on: November 14, 2004, 11:10:12 pm »
On the lighter side, did they give you the spice back?  If so, was it still in a baggie?  It would be funny to go to the claims window and they hand you a bag of it.

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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #38 on: November 15, 2004, 12:24:32 am »
It's modern day prohibition.

If the government would sell drugs at drug stores (the *tamer* ones...i'm not talking about sniffing battery acid up your nose crystal meth), wouldn't that save a LOT of money and lives by having less *crime* on the street?  In other words, you wouldn't have to buy it from some kid at school.  You could get it at Walgreens.  Have it be good stuff.  

I'm very into this whole new American thing where people aren't responsible for themselves.  If you wanna piss your life away on drugs, just stay in a room.  it is YOUR life.  PaigeOliver (who lives in a town where the catholic church said to vote for W or you're going to hell..but then W bombing the crap out of the guys with the nukes....err..never mind that train of thought....back over here --->) if I remember correctly attends church (of some sort...christian I think) but seems to think that people who don't beleive the same thing as him don't deserve free will.  the hypocracy is amazing.  To me anyway....

but i'm just a big fat dumb american.  

BTW, I've never smoked anything, snorted anything shot up anything or ...whatever other ways you put that crap in your system.  I don't do it, but if others want to, what right is it of mine to take that away from them?

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« Last Edit: November 15, 2004, 12:26:00 am by allroy1975 »
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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #39 on: November 15, 2004, 12:34:30 am »
since Floyd seems to have lost the will to respond, I will pay homage to him by posting some random nonsense (HOLY CRAP, IT'S ALL STARTING TO COME TOGETHER! The pot, the nonsense posts, the inane laughter at all things semi and full on funny  :o ;) ;D )








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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #40 on: November 15, 2004, 12:55:05 am »
My friend tom is a big anti-drug message. When he was about 22, he smoked pot so much that he burned a hole in his lung.

Ouch. no kiddin.
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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #41 on: November 15, 2004, 03:45:00 am »
It has nothing to do with free will (btw, I am not Catholic, and I refused to vote for either candidate for moral reasons).

Selling pot at walgreens wouldn't solve anything. It would just be more expensive, and people would see it as even more acceptable, and thus even more people would dedicate their life to smoking it. No way it would be cheaper, it is incredibly cheap now. I was never a pot smoker, but I spent my time around the party scene, and pot is way cheap. Even part time minimum wage burger jockeys can afford to stay stoned ALL THE TIME.

As for the REST of the drugs. Sorry, your "free will" doesn't mean a darn thing to me when your breaking my car window and doing $500 worth of damage in order to steal a radio you can get $20 for, so you can spend it on crack from a guy who will later shoot a rival on the street and not care who else gets hit.

And you know what, I actually DO care if other people ruin their lives. I DO care about all my miserable, stoned, cracked out neighbors. And I really can't come up with any solution OTHER than to make using, owning, or selling drugs so terrifying that no one will be willing to do so.

The old testament of the bible is full of examples of God killing off LOTS of people to keep their wickedness from spreading and infecting others, which he did out of love, because it was the only solution, to let them live would have been worse. You might not like that idea, but it is biblical.

I'm done with this thread now.

Remember kids, just say no to drugs.




It's modern day prohibition.

If the government would sell drugs at drug stores (the *tamer* ones...i'm not talking about sniffing battery acid up your nose crystal meth), wouldn't that save a LOT of money and lives by having less *crime* on the street?  In other words, you wouldn't have to buy it from some kid at school.  You could get it at Walgreens.  Have it be good stuff.  

I'm very into this whole new American thing where people aren't responsible for themselves.  If you wanna piss your life away on drugs, just stay in a room.  it is YOUR life.  PaigeOliver (who lives in a town where the catholic church said to vote for W or you're going to hell..but then W bombing the crap out of the guys with the nukes....err..never mind that train of thought....back over here --->) if I remember correctly attends church (of some sort...christian I think) but seems to think that people who don't beleive the same thing as him don't deserve free will.  the hypocracy is amazing.  To me anyway....

but i'm just a big fat dumb american.  

BTW, I've never smoked anything, snorted anything shot up anything or ...whatever other ways you put that crap in your system.  I don't do it, but if others want to, what right is it of mine to take that away from them?

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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #42 on: November 15, 2004, 05:23:29 am »
The old testament of the bible is full of examples of God killing off LOTS of people to keep their wickedness from spreading and infecting others, which he did out of love, because it was the only solution, to let them live would have been worse. You might not like that idea, but it is biblical.

Um...so your argument is that if god can do it so can you?  Isn't that, like, a really dangerous (not to mention egotistical) thing to say.  Lightning-bolts and stuff?

Don't get me wrong Paige.  If I've got one thing going for me it's consistency.  I pretty much thing that god, especially the one from the old testament (who strangely bares almost no resemblence to the one from the new testament), is a sociopath.  It's not just wrong for you to kill indescriminately.  It's pretty messed up when god does it too.

Seriously.  You say that the only way that you can think of is make drugs so scary that nobody will do it, but you should really take a look at Holland.  They used to have a serious drug epidemic going on.  Since they switched to treating drug addiction like a public health issue rather than a criminal issue the problem has been steadily disappearing.  In spite of marijuana being legal a significantly smaller percentage of the population there uses it than in America.  They also spend much less money fighting the drug war than we do (not to mention the cost savings realized by not incarcerating half the damn population).  Now, harder drugs, like Heroin and Cocian, are still illegal, but you don't get thrown in prison if you get caught using (for selling you would).  They have, in fact, clinics where addicts can go and get clean needles and such and they work to try and break people of their habit.

The average heroin user there is now 35 and that average goes up every year.  Young people there aren't getting started on these drugs in high numbers anymore.  As the older addicts die out the average keeps going up.

Check out this page for some interesting statistics.

Link fixed - saint
« Last Edit: November 15, 2004, 11:09:55 am by saint »
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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #43 on: November 15, 2004, 05:26:27 am »
Ditto, if religion and alcohol were banned ( or had never existed ) imagine what an amazing world we would be living in. Just think about it for a while.

Imagine

Imagine there's no heaven,
It's easy if you try,
No hell below us,
Above us only sky,
Imagine all the people
living for today...

Imagine there's no countries,
It isnt hard to do,
Nothing to kill or die for,
No religion too,
Imagine all the people
living life in peace...

Imagine no possesions,
I wonder if you can,
No need for greed or hunger,
A brotherhood of man,
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world...

You may say Im a dreamer,
but Im not the only one,
I hope some day you'll join us,
And the world will live as one.



That song kicks as*!  APC!  wOOt!

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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #44 on: November 15, 2004, 07:21:57 am »
I'm with paigoliver on this one, I was in a 'group' that did nothing much else in high school than smoke up.  Day in and day out, pot, hash, oil.  'Nutty butty' was 3 rolling papers smeared with oil, sprinkled with has and filled with weed.  Sure, it was a blast at the time, but of that oh say 10 guys, there are 5 that I know of that are still doing it, and of them, 4 of them still live at home at 35, and the other (who was a smart guy), well his last brainstorm was to raise mice to sell to pet shops so that he could sit home and smoke and not have to work. He started down his road to financial independance with 2 mice.  Hey, 2 mice don't have that many babies!

Moral of the story: They say that dope isn't harmful?  Bull****.  The guys into it are not right in the head.  Even from my own perspective, I have trouble putting a sentence together without sounding like Ozzy Osbourne sometimes, and I used to be the most articulate person.  It DOES do damage.  I think it takes years to notice the change, but it is there.  Smarten up when you're young and leave it be. (and jeez, oregano only smells like pot when it's lit, it doesn't even look like it!!)

in the same boat.. was a major coke head in high school... almost flunked out, but i got my ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- together and graduated, went on to graduate college ect..

its really sad seeing people throwing away what could be great lives..

now, im not as hardcore about it.. i see NOTHING wrong with a little weed NOW AND THEN, but when its a habbit, theres the problem..

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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #45 on: November 15, 2004, 07:39:02 am »
That song kicks as*!  APC!  wOOt!

Yeah, I like John Lennon too.

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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #46 on: November 15, 2004, 07:39:51 am »
floyd, in your 'free' society you have the choice: you can either listen to all these wowsers or you can watch 'chicago hope'. you're totally free to decide ;)

http://dir.salon.com/news/feature/2000/01/13/drugs/index.html




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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #47 on: November 15, 2004, 08:26:08 am »
Might as well have a say then. I've been "drug aware" since about the age of 18. Many of my friends, in fact all I can safely say, have tried the "softer" drugs. A couple of them still smoke fairly regularly. Not one is a psycho, a thief or unemployed. In fact they all have good jobs, pay taxes, have houses etc etc.

When I was a lot younger I think we all tried stuff like magic mushrooms and a bit of speed (amphetamine) but frankly I didn't like it as it was far too intense and no one else I'm friends with has touched that sort of stuff since their early twenties.

The way I see it is that if I want to occasionally have an evening of smoking and playing video games then I'm not much harming society - perhaps myself but then, I take that responsibility.

If drugs were banned tomorrow and there was no way to get more then all the former addicts would merely become alcoholics. The root cause is deeper and is a problem of society and addictive personality, not a green leaf.

All things in excess are dangerous. For example too much fat and lack of excercise leads to a nation with a real obesity problem. How many people die of heart disease each year? But do we hear a shout for banning fast food?

As a father I do not intend to forbid my son to do drugs, self-defeating effort. What I do intend to do is educate him on the effects, both good and bad, that they will have. I hope that given this information he may well choose to smoke the occasional joint but hopefully won't pop pills, snort coke or inject heroin. By this I don't mean that I'll actually encourage him to get stoned, and certainly not before he's 18. I hope that he'll know I won't condemn him if he does. Anyway, he's only 5 now so plenty of years to get the speech right!

So no, I don't hate all drugs. I just wish there could be a consistent approach towards them. Grouping weed and alcohol in the same bracket seems reasonable to me - then you can be for outright prohibition with a clear conscience.

Be much better to educate people in the danger of dependence than try to fight a war that was already lost 200 years ago.

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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #48 on: November 15, 2004, 08:49:04 am »
If drugs were banned tomorrow and there was no way to get more then all the former addicts would merely become alcoholics. The root cause is deeper and is a problem of society and addictive personality, not a green leaf.

All things in excess are dangerous. For example too much fat and lack of excercise leads to a nation with a real obesity problem. How many people die of heart disease each year? But do we hear a shout for banning fast food?

hear, hear!!


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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #49 on: November 15, 2004, 09:24:58 am »
The saddest thing about this whole thread is the fact that Floyd10 has once again used his "PushButton" magic to ensnare the members of this community. Chances are, he's sitting back laughing at every one of them.

Come on y'all, you wouldn't talk to this guy on the streets, why even entertain his ramblings on the board? All it really does is make us fight amongst ourselves, and where does that lead to?

Seriously guys, I wouldn't even reply to Floyd's topics. Maybe then he'll pack up toys & bag of tricks and go play elsewhere.  ;D


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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #50 on: November 15, 2004, 10:43:38 am »

Imagine

Imagine there's no heaven,
It's easy if you try,
No hell below us,
Above us only sky,
Imagine all the people
living for today...

Imagine there's no countries,
It isnt hard to do,
Nothing to kill or die for,
No religion too,
Imagine all the people
living life in peace...

Imagine no possesions,
I wonder if you can,
No need for greed or hunger,
A brotherhood of man,
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world...

You may say Im a dreamer,
but Im not the only one,
I hope some day you'll join us,
And the world will live as one.



Careful now, I got flamed on this very board for mentioning how upset my family were when John Lennon got shot! And the suggestion that it may have been an assasination had me painted as a paranoid tin-foil hat wearing agrophobic. How pathetic. John Lennon was one of the finest people of the 20th century, the world he envisioned cost him his life.

I hope anybody talking about shooting people for posession are also including the socially acceptable, government taxed+regulated drugs like alcohol, tobacco etc.

If it wasn't for drugs John Lennon wouldn't have written his finest work. Look at the LSD soaked Sargent Pepper. We have had deaths as a RESULT of government misinformation and scaremongering over drugs. Education is the way to go. Theres no use saying only one thing to kids, that drugs kill,  when chances are they see their friends/older siblings doing them and staying very much alive. Honesty and transparency in educating on the various types of drugs and their ACTUAL effects on your health is whats needed.

Dexter

« Last Edit: November 15, 2004, 11:08:53 am by Dexter »

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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #51 on: November 15, 2004, 11:05:24 am »
Go watch a Lennon concert where he hands the mic over to Yoko and tell me that drugs were doing good happy thing to his brain.  Jeez, the whole Yoko thing should be seen as the biggest argument AGAINST drugs!! :)

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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #52 on: November 15, 2004, 11:11:55 am »

in the same boat.. was a major coke head in high school... almost flunked out, but i got my <auto-censored> together and graduated, went on to graduate college ect..

its really sad seeing people throwing away what could be great lives..

now, im not as hardcore about it.. i see NOTHING wrong with a little weed NOW AND THEN, but when its a habbit, theres the problem..

We had a lead singer that got into that when we were in high school.  He HAD been student council president.  After he took to coke he: Punched all the windows out of his house and got a sliver in his veins that had to be surgically removed before it lodged in his heart.  
Cut all the street signs down in his area and buried them in his backyard
Took all the licence plates off all the cars in his area because someone had obviously called the cops on him about the street signs
Attacked a tow truck driver with a chain
Set his living room on fire
Sent the whole band to hospital after filling our beer with Tide
etc etc
Granted, he might have had a lot of this inside him from the start, but it was enough to keep me off the mighty white.
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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #53 on: November 15, 2004, 11:23:15 am »
Geez I'm glad I found a new forum that deals with video games and coin-op games. The back and forth tit for tat posts IS GETTING OLD!! Floyd be careful a record is not worth a little doobie.
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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #54 on: November 15, 2004, 11:26:32 am »
Floyd,

Drugs will take away more than you know, even pot. They take you off your game and make you weak.  All of the old potheads from my wasted youth are still living at home with their mammas and wondering why everybody else has nice houses.

It wastes your time and your energy and your life.  It has no rewards.  It will stop you from being free and happy. It takes you off your game, and sometimes out of the game. Drinking, tokeing, etc is a waste of time.

Grow up Floyd before somebody makes you. Growing up sucks, that's for sure, but everybody has to do it.  


Shmokes,
We don't need to legalize any new intoxicant. Why should we? So more people can be more screwed up and kill more people on the roads and in their homes?  How about getting screwed up and burn down your house or spend the money on drugs and forget your kids? How about getting high and beating your wife or losing your job? Don't tell me that doesn't happen dude. I have lots of buddies from the 70's, lots.

 That's what we need, more ways to get screwed up and not face life.  Yep, great position.  It's a choice - be alive and well and free or be dependent on something to get you through the night.  great choice. Let's have yet another crutch.

Do you want your pharmacist on drugs? How about your doctor or your lawyer?  I know, how about your taxi driver.  After all, he was just sitting there and wasn't driving when he took a toke.

Great idea. NOT.

I've done my share, that's for sure. It wasted years of my life for nothing and kept me from being more and doing more when I needed to do it.  And for what?  A few minutes of euphoria I can't remember?

I wasted a good portion of the years I should have been doing something and learning something on getting the next bag 'o dope.  I look back and see nothing but lost opportunity.

I'm not religious at all. You keep going over that point in any conservative viewpoint.  I don't understand that. Most religious people are conservatives, but not all conservatives are religous people.

You are for gun control, but for people having drugs.  Great postion, makes great sense.  If everybody doesn't have a gun they can get high right?




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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #55 on: November 15, 2004, 11:57:59 am »
Don't listen to them Floyd.  Do what makes you happy, if people quit doing drugs we'd have only illegal imgrants working the cash registers at fast food places.

When I tell a pot head, no cheese, I am more likely to get my Big Mac without cheese.

Of course I don't want you actually preparing my food. Even though I say no cheese, I'd like to think that implies no spit or urine either.

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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #56 on: November 15, 2004, 12:06:14 pm »
I think G.K Chesterton said it best:

"The free man owns himself. He can damage himself with either eating or drinking; he can ruin himself with gambling. If he does he is certainly a damn fool, and he might possibly be a damned soul; but if he may not, he is not a free man any more than a dog."
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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #57 on: November 15, 2004, 12:15:47 pm »
I can't believe this thread has received all the attention it has...
Please, let it die!
We're getting back to the negative/political stuff from a few weeks ago!
Isn't this about BYOAC???
« Last Edit: November 15, 2004, 12:21:39 pm by Jabba »
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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #58 on: November 15, 2004, 01:02:45 pm »
sorry that I havent posted in a while... I am suspended, its official. My moms getting me a drug test, to see if Im not doing anything harder (BTW, i have to pay for it...).  Fortunately I haven't smoked in a month, and its going to come up negative. I have just read both arguments, and i still stand firmly where I was. I do believe that it is modern prohibiton. the exact same thing happened in the 20s(I believe). people had the same exact views. and crime was much worse. people cant seem to see the forest for the trees. There was a comedian that has a unique view (and no, It doesnt encourage me to do drugs.)

"People don't think that drugs have done any good for people. I disagree, and if you dont think that drugs have done anything good for people, then do me a favor. go home right now and take all your cds, and tapes, and records and burn them. because every good song, every song that has affected your life... reeeeeeeeeaslly f***ing high on drugs."

(listen to Tool's third eye)

David cross also once said:
"But, why is pot illegal? If I wanna go home after a hard day of work, and get stoned, watch tv and eat a twinkie, whats the harm in that? I tell ya, when Im in prison, getting raped by a 400 lb man, thats when Im really gonna need a joint.Granted, I dont think you should get stoned whenever you like. I don't wanna be on the operating table with my doctor getting stoned.."

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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #59 on: November 15, 2004, 02:08:26 pm »
Floyd,

A month isn't long enough anymore Floyd, It's gotta be at least 60 days.

Comedians are just that, comedy.

My point is that doing that wastes you more than you know. Instead of smoking "after a hard day" you could do something else, like making music or painting the living room, or building a mame machine to take your mind off it.

Instead, you sit there and get high.  You wake up groggy, you go to work groggy, and you just don't feel like doing anything.  That's where it takes you off your game.  It makes you "have a hard day".  It takes several days to get it out of your system.

You are not old enough to know what it does yet. I was in your shoes in '79.  I said the same thing, exactly.  I didn't realize what I could have been doing or what I could have accomplished because I was stoned. I didn't care.

And what happened?  I had two friends that I made fun of for not toking. Both worked after school and built businesses.  They are doing pretty well now. They spent their time on something constructive, not destructive.

It wastes your time.  It wastes the time of people trying to help you.

I can see where you think it's a modern prohabition, but there is a reason for it. There is nothing good about it. Nothing. The money you spend on it goes to people who do crime.  It supports more crime.  It brings people who do crime around you.  It involves you and surrounds you in crime.  It makes you into a liar and a slacker.  It gets worse the older you get.  

You become a target, a patsy.  You become less that what you can be.

Not all music is created from drug induced hallucinations. Ted Nugent is a prime example of that.

Plus you can't compare "worse crimes" and this. Comparing two bad things is not a valid argument.  It is not the same thing.

You can argue it hurts nobody but yourself, it's victimless, but it's not.  You have risked your future and probably upset your parents to no end. You gave money to some body that eventually leads to somebody who will kill people in order to bring you your supply.  There are real victims and consequences.

Stay straight for awhile and do something constructive.  Make that first album, perfect your rift.  Organize that band.  Figure out something to build.  



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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #60 on: November 15, 2004, 03:14:48 pm »
There is nothing good about it. Nothing. The money you spend on it goes to people who do crime.  It supports more crime.  It brings people who do crime around you.  It involves you and surrounds you in crime.  It makes you into a liar and a slacker.
................................

You gave money to some body that eventually leads to somebody who will kill people in order to bring you your supply.  There are real victims and consequences.


Hmm, sounds like a good argument for legalising drugs to me.

If drugs were legalised (but tightly controlled) then you would remove the incentive for criminals to get involved in supplying them.

In any case the nightmare scenario you present us with (doctors high on drugs etc) doesn't tend to happen in countries that have a more liberal approach to drugs such as Holland.



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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #61 on: November 15, 2004, 04:01:14 pm »
Shmokes,
We don't need to legalize any new intoxicant...So more people can be more screwed up and kill more people on the roads and in their homes?  How about getting screwed up and burn down your house or spend the money on drugs and forget your kids? How about getting high and beating your wife or losing your job? Don't tell me that doesn't happen dude. I have lots of buddies from the 70's, lots.

 That's what we need, more ways to get screwed up and not face life.  Yep, great position.  It's a choice - be alive and well and free or be dependent on something to get you through the night.  great choice. Let's have yet another crutch.

Do you want your pharmacist on drugs? How about your doctor or your lawyer?  I know, how about your taxi driver.  After all, he was just sitting there and wasn't driving when he took a toke.

Great idea. NOT.

Fredster,  

I backed my assertions up with statistics.  It's comical that you respond by saying how absurd my position is without even attempting to address what I actually said or discredit my statistics or suggest how I am misreading them.  Go back up and click on the link, then come back here and level your arguments.  The weight of the evidence is on my side.  I don't want to legalize marijuana so that MORE people will use it.  I want to legalize marijuana because the drug war is doing more harm than the drug.  There is also significant evidence that legalizing marijuana would dramatically decrease the use of harder drugs, and quite likely the use even of marijuana itself.  In addition to being counter-productive the drug war also costs billions and billions of tax-payer money.

Once again, go back up and click on the link.  

Quote
You are for gun control, but for people having drugs.  Great postion, makes great sense.  If everybody doesn't have a gun they can get high right?
 

Speaking of making sense.....  ???  What in the name of god are you getting at here?
 
And on the religion thing...I never suggested that religious people are against drugs while non-religious people are for them.  I used religion as an example because I know that Paige is extremely religious, whereas I think that religion is, on the whole, harmful to society.  I used it to illustrate how he might not like his policy so much if someone else was in power.  Maybe someone who thinks that religion isn't such a good thing.  It could have been people who build their own arcade controls too, I guess, only then I'd have to have myself shot too.

I don't see this as a republican v. democrat thing, or a religion v. athesim.  Republicans and Christians don't have any monopoly over hating drugs.  
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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #62 on: November 15, 2004, 05:08:28 pm »
Smokes, I'll keep it simple.

Then why have more ways to destroy yourself legally?

I've been there.  It's not worth it. Quote any made up statistics pot head professors you want, we don't need any more drugs.  

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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #63 on: November 15, 2004, 05:11:50 pm »
There is nothing good about it. Nothing. The money you spend on it goes to people who do crime.  It supports more crime.  It brings people who do crime around you.  It involves you and surrounds you in crime.  It makes you into a liar and a slacker.
................................

You gave money to some body that eventually leads to somebody who will kill people in order to bring you your supply.  There are real victims and consequences.


Hmm, sounds like a good argument for legalising drugs to me.

If drugs were legalised (but tightly controlled) then you would remove the incentive for criminals to get involved in supplying them.

In any case the nightmare scenario you present us with (doctors high on drugs etc) doesn't tend to happen in countries that have a more liberal approach to drugs such as Holland.


Im with you. There wouldnt be money going to terrorists if it was legalized. Just like how the mob was getting money off of alcohol during prohibition. The drug war hurts more people than it saves.

and btw, the comedians are satirists. if you dont know what that is, then Im shoveling in a snow storm.

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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #64 on: November 15, 2004, 05:31:03 pm »
...why have more ways to destroy yourself legally?

Because without the ability to live our lives as we choose we are not truly free.  
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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #65 on: November 15, 2004, 05:36:24 pm »
Ok, here's more:

However, what CATO refuses to publicly acknowledge are the devastating
results of legalization-decriminalization policy, as evidenced in the
Netherlands, where such a policy has been in place since the early
1980's. The president of the Dutch National Committee on Drug Prevention,
K.F. Gunning, M.D., reports that crime and drug use have skyrocketed
since the implementation of legalization in the Netherlands. According to
the Dutch Government, their legalization-decriminalization has resulted
in: A 250-percent increase in drug use since 1993; a doubling of
marijuana  use by students since 1988; armed robberies up by 70
percent; shootings up by 40 percent; car thefts up by 60 percent.

The number of registered addicts in the Netherlands has risen 22 percent
in the past 5 years, and there were 25,000 new addicts in 1993 alone. In
addition, the number of organized crime groups in the Netherlands has
increased from 3 in 1988 to 93 in 1993. For good reason, the American
public has zero tolerance for legalization schemes.

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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #66 on: November 15, 2004, 06:49:01 pm »
There was a comedian that has a unique view (and no, It doesnt encourage me to do drugs.)

"People don't think that drugs have done any good for people. I disagree, and if you dont think that drugs have done anything good for people, then do me a favor. go home right now and take all your cds, and tapes, and records and burn them. because every good song, every song that has affected your life... reeeeeeeeeaslly f***ing high on drugs."
That same guy also said Keith Richards DID all the drugs!

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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #67 on: November 15, 2004, 08:25:09 pm »
Actually it wasnt dennis leary. I dont know his name, I heard it on tools third eye song.

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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #68 on: November 15, 2004, 09:30:24 pm »
Actually it wasnt dennis leary. I dont know his name, I heard it on tools third eye song.


It was Sam Kinison.

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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #69 on: November 15, 2004, 11:23:37 pm »
Ok, here's more:

However, what CATO refuses to publicly acknowledge are the devastating
results of legalization-decriminalization policy, as evidenced in the
Netherlands, where such a policy has been in place since the early
1980's. The president of the Dutch National Committee on Drug Prevention,
K.F. Gunning, M.D., reports that crime and drug use have skyrocketed
since the implementation of legalization in the Netherlands. According to
the Dutch Government, their legalization-decriminalization has resulted
in: A 250-percent increase in drug use since 1993; a doubling of
marijuana  use by students since 1988; armed robberies up by 70
percent; shootings up by 40 percent; car thefts up by 60 percent.

The number of registered addicts in the Netherlands has risen 22 percent
in the past 5 years, and there were 25,000 new addicts in 1993 alone. In
addition, the number of organized crime groups in the Netherlands has
increased from 3 in 1988 to 93 in 1993. For good reason, the American
public has zero tolerance for legalization schemes.

Fredster, Fredster, Fredster,

You seem so aggravated.  I'm not sure who the "made up statistics pot head professors" are that you are referring to, but here are some of the sources of the information in that link:

1- University of Amsterdam, Centre for Drug Research
2- US Department of Health and Human Services
3- European Monitoring Centre for Drugs and Drug Addiction
4- London, England: Research, Development and Statistics Directorate of the Home Office
5- Netherlands: Ministry of Justice
6- Netherlands Institute of Mental Health and Addiction
7- The Hague: Ministry of Health, Welfare and Sport

All of those sources are listed prominently on the website under each piece of information, so I'm not entirely sure what your grounds are for claiming that some pot-head professor pulled them out of thin air.

It would be nice if you returned the favor by providing the sources for your claims so I can check out the credility of your assertions.  I'm not married to the idea of legalizing marijuana, you know.  If presented with compelling evidence that legalizing marijuana would be bad for our society I'll just change my position on it.  It's not like I'm going to be up nights thinking, "Oh god, what have I done?  All this time I was misguided on the virtue of illicit drug decriminalization."

But if you truly want to reduce the drug problem in America, and some other countries policy appears to be far more effective than our own, you shouldn't just dismiss it because it doesn't make intuitive sense to you at face value.  You shouldn't say, "I'd rather have a growing drug problem while Holland has a dramatically shrinking one than even consider the possibility that maybe they might have the superior approach to the problem."  Don't let nationalism get in the way of being the best.  If another country starts beating us we should plaigerize their idea.  Any business worth its salt would do the same.
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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #70 on: November 16, 2004, 12:37:34 am »

"People don't think that drugs have done any good for people. I disagree, and if you dont think that drugs have done anything good for people, then do me a favor. go home right now and take all your cds, and tapes, and records and burn them. because every good song, every song that has affected your life... reeeeeeeeeaslly f***ing high on drugs."



Wow, it is a literal fountain of stupidity.

If you do believe that, then do ME a favor and go research musicians, the music industry, and drugs in the music industry and see how many promising artists, popular bands, and musicians in general have ripped their lives apart with drugs. For every Willie Nelson there are 30 drummers addicted to coke who live just on the edge of ripping their entire band apart.


I used to live with a couple musicians, and knew plenty of other ones, and the MAIN reason for kicking people out of bands was drugs.

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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #71 on: November 16, 2004, 01:54:37 am »
I could be wrong Paige, but i think that there was a little bit of tongue-in-cheek going on in that argument.

Simply ignoring my serious and well-grounded arguments doesn't make them go away, though.  We do have some common ground, ya know.  Both of us see a very serious societal problem in drug use.  As I mentioned above, the only drug I do is legal and readily available at the local liquor store.  Access to marijuana is not a problem for me.  I just don't care for it.  I won't benefit directly from it being made legal.  I also agree with you that it is physically harmful (as is sugar) and has a tendency to become a psychological crutch for many people and commonly affects their productivity and ambition negatively.

Don't make the mistake of digging your heels in based on a "us v. them" mentality.  There's more than one way to skin a cat.  I think I've presented fairly compelling evidence that my suggestions would work better than what we are doing.  Your suggestions probably would too, but they would also introduce another element into society that would be clearly worse than the problem it solved.  In the end, though, we have the sameish goal in mind.
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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #72 on: November 16, 2004, 01:56:19 am »

I've done my share, that's for sure. It wasted years of my life for nothing and kept me from being more and doing more when I needed to do it.  And for what?  A few minutes of euphoria I can't remember?


Wow, if this doesn't sum up the college experience.

Drinking, everyone does it. Same deal. Everyone obsesses over getting drunk. Too many of my friends claim a "bad" weekend if they don't get sloshed both nights. It started to really hit home recently (personal problems). I've stopped for the time being. I can't say that I've felt better in months.
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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #73 on: November 16, 2004, 05:22:14 am »
Isn't this about BYOAC???
This part of the forum is 'everything else'

By the way, that comedian quoted was Bill Hicks, from his "Revelations" show IIRC.

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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #74 on: November 16, 2004, 08:46:03 am »
i think what a lot of people aren't getting, but shmokes, teef two, myself and others realise is that governments are concentrating too much on the problems people have with substance abuse (and BTW, alcohol and cigarettes by FAR kill more people than all the others put together) and not focusing enough on why people go off the rails.
  i don't smoke, hardly ever drink and don't take drugs. in fact, i nag my stoner friends to try and get them past their teen years (and we're in our thirties now!). but i would never wish them to prison for what they do. many people can drink or smoke dope in moderation all  their lives and never have a problem. many others are veritable whores for that next drink or smoke or hit. why the difference?
  a lot of it has to do with family life. you guys that have said you used to do drugs but now don't and are warning floyd of the dangers. you are proof that drugs don't just turn you into useless stoners for life. you were rebelling, maybe there was some other problems that you were trying to mask. you got over it. now you don't do drugs. that's what happens to most people.
 SOME problems are too profound to get over though. i had a girlfriend who was raped by her father until she was about 13. finally she couldn't take it anymore and ran off with a boyfriend. she ended up a heroin addict and was selling it on the streets by the time she was 16. i think there's a pretty obvious reason there why she took drugs, don't you? wouldn't matter how many 'mister bigs' you busted, or how many junkies you threw in prison or shot against a wall, it wouldn't have stopped her father raping her.
 luckily she was upper middle-class and her mother came looking for her and sent her to a special school. she was on and off junk well into her thirties though. working at the london stock exchange didn't help matters as they are a bunch of coke-heads! when i met her she'd been off everything for maybe 3 years. unbelievably she even gave up smoking a year or so ago!! now that's tough work...
  you are always going to have people that need help that isn't forthcoming. self-medicating with legal OR illegal drugs isn't the answer. But nor is ignoring that and declaring a 'war on drugs'.

BTW, she didn't smoke dope until in her twenties. found she didn't like it. so much for that simplistic idea of 'feeder' drugs or whatever it is it's termed- the idea that soft drugs inevitably leads to hard drugs.

oh, and i think jabba is right- it was bill hicks.


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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #75 on: November 16, 2004, 12:35:22 pm »
Shmokes,

I got my info from a government source also:
http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/demand/speakout/09so.htm

I don't think that people who do drugs should go to jail either.  I don't think people should get into drugs at all. It didn't help anybody I ever knew.  It's taking my 19 year old nephew with Floyd's attitude now.  He seems to think that it's pretty cool and has dropped out of college.  He was an A student and captain of his football team before he found dope.  Now he's just a stoner.

I'm for stopping supply. I'm for busting people for selling it, hard. I'm not in favor of busting people like Floyd.  It doesn't make sense to do that unless they keep on and become part of the problem by selling.

There is nothing free about being able to do drugs. Nothing. There is no upside. Where is the upside boys? Where?

Danny, you can't make this relative to other problems. Comparing one problem to an unrelated problem.  It's a sad story you write about this 16 year old. I've seen that too.  You didn't mention if the father was an addict. Drugs could have been the cause for a lot of this over and over. Drugs or drinking. Intoxicants in general.

Another good reason to keep new intoxicants out of the public domain.  We can't control what we have that's already legal.

The only thing I hear from the other side in this issue is - well if you want to screw up your own life, go right ahead. Life sucks then you die.  Be free to kill yourself.  What does it matter?

Come on. It does matter. It matters to people around you who care for you.  We have to something.  Doing nothing is not an option.  There is no future or upside to it.





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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #76 on: November 16, 2004, 01:28:30 pm »
The only thing I hear from the other side in this issue is - well if you want to screw up your own life, go right ahead. Life sucks then you die.  Be free to kill yourself.  What does it matter?

If this is what you heard, you haven't been listening.  No one said life sucks or it doesn't matter.  And I would discourage anyone from screwing up their lives or killing themselves.  However, it is not the job of government to tell people they can't do these things if they choose.  Government should not be some sort of surrogate parent telling people how to live their lives.
"I believe that every individual is naturally entitled to do as he pleases with himself and the fruits of his labor, so far as it in no way interferes with any other men's rights."
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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #77 on: November 16, 2004, 02:50:09 pm »
Quote
If this is what you heard, you haven't been listening.

I always have been know for listening pretty well.

I now understand why I should be like John Lennon.  I'm sure that he started out doing LSD.  They wrote a classic album about yellow submarines.  John Lennon was such a socially adjusted guy.  Just like Jannis Joplin, she was a real winner and real happy.  Jimmi Hendrix, and Kurt Kobane, he made grunge mainstream, and what a fun guy. Great roll models all!  I can't wait to get the posters.

I thnk I heard this:
Quote
The drug war hurts more people than it saves.
 - So that means, give up on it. Stop fighting drugs. Don't stop drugs, make no effort. After all it comes down to you and me.  Why spend the effort to stop all that nasty business?  After all, it's fruitless.  We can never ever win.  So why even try?

And this:
Quote
Because without the ability to live our lives as we choose we are not truly free.  
 So it's a good idea to add yet another way to fail to an already difficult life.  Great. We can all decide to just destroy ourselves with even more stuff!  What can we choose???

Quote
How many people die of heart disease each year? But do we hear a shout for banning fast food?
 That means since we are screwing up here, we can just go ahead and screw this up too!  Wow! that's a great idea.

I hear:
Quote
Theres no use saying only one thing to kids, that drugs kill,  when chances are they see their friends/older siblings doing them and staying very much alive.
So everybody does it and LOOK how successful they are! They are alive after that! Wow, so it can't be bad.

I hear that we should just allow a new intoxicant to be allowed and social acceptable.  It's okay. People, or "most people" get over it. You should be able to screw yourself up, that's what I get from most of this.

Now using the logic I've seen here, I have changed on more than one issue.

We can now say that suicide is an appropriate response to life's troubles.  Hey, it's okay. It only hurts one person.  It's your only choice to be truly free.  Let's make it socially acceptable to do that.  After all, we shouldn't try to prevent that as it impinges on one's freedom!!!

Ok! I understand.

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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #78 on: November 16, 2004, 05:02:34 pm »
Now using the logic I've seen here...

Is this an invitation to question your sight as well? :)

But seriously, your logic is flawed.  You are equating legalizing pot with advocating it and no one is doing this.  Just because something is legal doesn't mean you are encouraged to do it.  After all drinking and smoking are legal and yet not everyone participates.  Why would pot be any different.

And why are you bringing up suicide?  This has nothing to do with the topic at hand.  

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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #79 on: November 16, 2004, 05:46:57 pm »
Ok, here's more:

However, what CATO refuses to publicly acknowledge are the devastating
results of legalization-decriminalization policy, as evidenced in the
Netherlands, where such a policy has been in place since the early
1980's. The president of the Dutch National Committee on Drug Prevention,
K.F. Gunning, M.D., reports that crime and drug use have skyrocketed
since the implementation of legalization in the Netherlands. According to
the Dutch Government, their legalization-decriminalization has resulted
in: A 250-percent increase in drug use since 1993; a doubling of
marijuana  use by students since 1988; armed robberies up by 70
percent; shootings up by 40 percent; car thefts up by 60 percent.

The number of registered addicts in the Netherlands has risen 22 percent
in the past 5 years, and there were 25,000 new addicts in 1993 alone. In
addition, the number of organized crime groups in the Netherlands has
increased from 3 in 1988 to 93 in 1993. For good reason, the American
public has zero tolerance for legalization schemes.


I guess it's just how you read the figures. You can do it like your source does (and claim that things are running out of control in the Netherlands) or you can compare the figures for the Netherlands to the figures of our neighbours (or to the US). I'm afraid your source is out to prove a case for the hard line approach and only shows the data that can prove that claim. It grossly exaggerates things that are not an issue and ignores the points that are. The "report" fails to put things in perspective.

For instance, the biggest power of our soft drugs legalization is in preventing people from coming in contact with hard drugs. So when your source claims the Dutch are becoming hugely addicted to heroin (tripled or maybe even quadrupled since 1976) that sure doesn't sound good. But if you look at the stats and see that the Netherlands is one of the European countries with the lowest number of opiate addicts (2.6 in 1000 while it's up to 10 per 1000 in countries like Italy and the UK) then I'd say that apparently we are still doing it better than the other countries.

I also don't see the relation to other forms of crimes. What could be the relation between armed robberies and drugs use? There are more dutch producers of drugs yes, but these people don't steal cars, rob banks or whatever.

The truth is that the Netherlands overall has far less drugs related problems than the US even though you can of course find some individual figures that will prove otherwise. The figures I have seen are far less shocking tahan your source makes it look (2003 ANNUAL REPORT ON THE DRUG SITUATION ).

For what it's worth, I used soft drugs quite often and even though I build up a reasonably succesful business for myself. It's not the soft drugs that stop people from being succesful, it's the fact that they were losers to begin with that makes them losers.

Indeed "losers" tend to resort to alcohol and/or drugs abuse, but that's does not mean it's always true the other way around. Claiming that soft drugs "break" peoples lives is just as silly as claiming that beer would do that.

Personally, I dislike drunk people a lot more than drugged people. Drunks tend to get agressive while "druggers" go mellow. Actually, it's my experience that women get really horny when they smoke some stuff  ;D

Perhaps in an ideal world people wouldn't drink alcohol or do drugs, but then I don't think I'd like to live in that ideal world.
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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #80 on: November 16, 2004, 06:36:43 pm »


oh, and i think jabba is right- it was bill hicks.


Sigh....

OK, maybe Bill Hicks said that, too.  I don't know who originally came up with it, but here is where Sam says it, circa 1990.


http://music.barnesandnoble.com/search/product.asp?userid=UH0bn0QATD&EAN=75992574822&ITM=2

BTW, the sample you can download doesn't include that, so you'll have to take my word that it is in there. ;D

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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #81 on: November 16, 2004, 06:37:27 pm »
Perhaps in an ideal world people wouldn't drink alcohol or do drugs, but then I don't think I'd like to live in that ideal world.

Yeah, you won't live longer, it just SEEMS like it!

Take it from a person who lives in a culture rife with alcoholism, there are worse things than soft drugs. Education and legalisation is the way to go, holland rocks in this respect. I was at a rave where a young girl actually drowned from drinking so much water. At the time the education was to 'drink lots of water', which the girl and her friends were doing, as instructed. After this incident, official literature was changed to 'sip a pint of water every hour'. One example of many. The main problem is drilling it into kids in school "DRUGS KILL", "HEROIN, POT, COCAINE are just some drugs", then the kids grow up seeing soft drugs being used regularly without anybody dying, another example. Educate on the types of drugs, effects, side effects, everything. Arm children for what they face instead of misinforming them.

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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #82 on: November 16, 2004, 07:37:31 pm »
I think people here need to see requiem for a dream. I only did pot. I would never have dreamed of doing anything harder, because it does f*** you up. Pot is tamer. and once again, i wasn't going to do it for much longer. but people keep saying: DRUGS ARE EVIL!!! OH MY GOD!!! I feel absolutely no different, and the high isnt worth ruining my friendship with my mom. Dont call tis a f***ing revelation, because it was my previous stance.

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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #83 on: November 16, 2004, 07:37:41 pm »
you guys that have said you used to do drugs but now don't and are warning floyd of the dangers. you are proof that drugs don't just turn you into useless stoners for life.
erm.....your "proof" assumes I'm not useless.   ;D

My major use in life is to hold open doors (a doorstop, as it were), and depending on the door, I'm pretty piss poor at it.

However, it is not the job of government to tell people they can't do these things if they choose.  Government should not be some sort of surrogate parent telling people how to live their lives.
man that sounds good.  Wait, do you mean a parent like as in "dad, can I borrow 5(hundred dollars)?  Or the kind of parent as in "son, you can't buy that gun, because I don't want you to have it".

Is that one of those "gray areas" I've heard about?
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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #84 on: November 16, 2004, 07:40:42 pm »
BTW Cutting yourself (which I dont advocate, and is far worse than pot in terms of damage, and everything else) is legal, yet pot isnt. Smoking is legal, pot isnt.

This doesnt make much sense.

and cant a gun aimed at your mouth do more damage than a joint?

Legalising and advocation are 2 different things. Guns are legal, but do we encourage everyone to shoot people?

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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #85 on: November 16, 2004, 08:39:51 pm »
Sigh.... it's not a political thread at least...

Marijuana should be legal, whether you love it or hate it.  I say it only because, in everyday society, I'd rather deal with a pothead than an alcoholic.

Let me explain.  People high on pot are generally quieter, less agressive, more laidback and show more attention at trying to hide their condition (paranoia).  Often times my friends would be high and I wouldn't know until hours later when he/she told me.  

Drunk people on the other hand are loud, more agressive, prone to fits of violence, and have no problem generally being disruptive.  You can tell when someone's loaded from a mile away.

(Of course, that's just generalization but, on average, that's how I've seen people act on those substances.)

Quote
BTW Cutting yourself (which I dont advocate, and is far worse than pot in terms of damage, and everything else) is legal, yet pot isnt. Smoking is legal, pot isnt.

This doesnt make much sense.

and cant a gun aimed at your mouth do more damage than a joint?

Comparing apples to oranges... or in this case, weapons to recreational drugs.  

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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #86 on: November 16, 2004, 08:55:13 pm »
Not that I advocate legalising pot, because I do not, but aren't the schools running around trying to medicate every little boy who shows an ounce of testosterone with ritalin?  The schools make mood altering drugs available to children for free, as long as it is thier drugs ;D
Please!  Give me the good news first!

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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #87 on: November 16, 2004, 09:09:26 pm »
I know people who have gotten hooked on ritalin from ppl who sell it in our school... its sad, really

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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #88 on: November 16, 2004, 10:22:35 pm »
"in everyday society, I'd rather deal with a pothead than an alcoholic"
This is true... Even I have never been punched by a stoner. ;)
"I know people who have gotten hooked on ritalin from ppl who sell it in our school"
Is that stuff even addictive?  It wasn't around (that I know of) when I was in school.

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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #89 on: November 16, 2004, 11:04:52 pm »

Danny, you can't make this relative to other problems. Comparing one problem to an unrelated problem.  It's a sad story you write about this 16 year old. I've seen that too.  You didn't mention if the father was an addict. Drugs could have been the cause for a lot of this over and over. Drugs or drinking. Intoxicants in general.

Another good reason to keep new intoxicants out of the public domain.  We can't control what we have that's already legal.

The only thing I hear from the other side in this issue is - well if you want to screw up your own life, go right ahead. Life sucks then you die.  Be free to kill yourself.  What does it matter?

Come on. It does matter. It matters to people around you who care for you.  We have to something.  Doing nothing is not an option.  There is no future or upside to it.


um, yeah. her family was old money. he was a doctor or an architect or something. her mum was a teacher. he was addicted all right, addicted to abusing his daughter. that's not what you want to hear though, is it? you want to imagine that she must have been trailer trash and so was bound to have a hard life. not deserved, but not surprising because her father was addicted to something hard-core as well. that it was the DRUG that lead to her problems, not society.
as i say, a lot of you even after it's been pointed out are missing the point. why did she take heroin? it wasn't just from hanging out with the wrong crowd, was it? if there were no illegal drugs around at all, she probably would have become an alcoholic instead. ended up being a bag lady or something and would have had no brain left. instead she did junk and had a hellish life. but at least her brain is intact. she' s a grief councellor now. even better would have been a society that could confront the horror of what her father did. one that could catch him out a lot earlier.
everyone loves statistics. well here's an interesting one. roughly one in four women will be abused as a child. and up to one in ten men. does that not make you sick? personally, at least two of my girlfriends were molested as children, and two others i had my suspicions about. are you ready to spend billions on a war on rape and child abuse? but what's the proportion of junkies to 'normal' people? not anywhere near as alarming. if you think it is alarming, i'm sad for you that you think the welfare of children is less important.
and what i'm talking about isn't the only reason people try and solve their problems with booze and/or drugs. the whole thing is a big grey area (that should get drews attention again  ;) )for instance, one of my stoner friends had a very strict upbringing (again middle-class). father would never let him do any fun things or buy him much in the way of toys like his friends. my parents didn't buy me many toys either, but they DID teach me to be creative to amuse myself. he started smoking when he left home at 18 and hasn't stopped since. he's a guy. it's not at all macho to just let it all out to your mates. gotta bottle it up and be a man. by abusing himself like that he is saying 'i'll show you'. he tries to punish the world through himself. he drinks too. so if there were no illegal drugs, i actually think he would do himself (and potentially others) MORE harm by drinking even more.

to quote you again, fredster "Come on. It does matter. It matters to people around you who care for you.  We have to something.  Doing nothing is not an option.  There is no future or upside to it." you are absolutely right. but fighting a war on drugs is like losing your keys in a dark alleyway and then going out to the well-lit street to look for them because you can see more easily. the answer is back in that dark alleyway.


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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #90 on: November 16, 2004, 11:14:59 pm »
just to clarify something. my examples are extreme ones to show how people can go to extremes to kill the pain. im not suggesting floyd or others here have had such a bad childhood. in fact, the fact that you're all here chatting on a 'geeky' forum shows you are probably not having any on-going problems with drugs.
floyd is young. kids experiment (except for me, i still feel like i missed out!). most kids that experiment have a fairly normal life. problems with drugs arise when there are problems with your life. fix those social problems and you will have very few drug problems...

one other clarification. i DO believe governments should go after the 'mr bigs' of the drug world. but they will only need to do that until societies problems are addressed. take away the demand, and the suppliers will fade away too. well, go back to raqueteering anyway ;)


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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #91 on: November 16, 2004, 11:19:15 pm »
However, it is not the job of government to tell people they can't do these things if they choose.  Government should not be some sort of surrogate parent telling people how to live their lives.
man that sounds good.  Wait, do you mean a parent like as in "dad, can I borrow 5(hundred dollars)?  Or the kind of parent as in "son, you can't buy that gun, because I don't want you to have it".

Is that one of those "gray areas" I've heard about?

Neither of those is an acceptable role for government.

Which of those choices sounded good to you?  
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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #92 on: November 17, 2004, 02:19:32 am »
"I know people who have gotten hooked on ritalin from ppl who sell it in our school"
Is that stuff even addictive?  It wasn't around (that I know of) when I was in school.
Its effects are night and day depending on the type of person you are.

If you are the type who is "hyper", for lack of a better word, then it serves to "slow things down" and calm/settle that person down.

If you are the calm type, it is an upper.

Dunno why the drug works like that, but if you know someone who has it, read the side effects for some crazy juxtapositions - my daughter requires it, without it, she's so scatterbrained, hyper, and short-tempered it's like living with 5 women with PMS and no Midol in the house.
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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #93 on: November 17, 2004, 02:26:40 am »
Neither of those is an acceptable role for government.

Which of those choices sounded good to you?  
Neither choice is acceptable to me, but society has made those two choices our government's responsibility.  I'm all for working those things out first, then worry about this "little stuff" second.

I'm a big fan of prioritization by the government.  I also realize there's a slim to none possibility that it will ever happen.
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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #94 on: November 17, 2004, 08:31:07 am »
I've seen the example of the Netherlands used a lot here and I'd just like to point out that an awful lot of the rising crime there is not due to the liberal drugs policy but more to do with the liberal immigration policy. Right now there is an awful lot of racial tension in Holland. Just said this to put some perspective on it.

Oh, and a minor rant here. I always see in these kind of discussions the example of "Well, you shouldn't want drugs legalised because the surgeon performing your operation might be stoned". Utter nonsense. The surgeon could quite as easily be drunk. Neither is acceptable.

What it all boils down to is self-control. If you can teach that to society then you go an awful long way to stopping the drugs problem. I like a drink, I also like an occasional smoke. I couldn't do either all the time and continue to contribute to society. So I don't. 99% of the time I prefer to be straight. Every now and then I like to get a little bit drunk - because I find it enjoyable. The same goes for a smoke. Frankly if I did either all the time then I would cease to enjoy it completely.

I can see the reasons for both sides of the argument but one thing I cannot stand in the sanctimonious attitude that I must be an evil person because of my "so called" vices. It's the same attitude that says "If you're not my religion then you must be an unfulfilled person".

However, whatever the arguments for and against, one thing is irrefutable. Drugs have been available to humanity for a very, very long time. People have done drugs, people are doing drugs, people will continue doing drugs. There is no possible way that will ever, ever stop. You can't stop it, you sure as hell can't control it without losing a grip on so much else that is more important. So the only posible way forward is to educate in the effects and downsides of extended abuse of drugs. Anything else, regardless of the legislature of your particular Government, is just pi**ing in the wind.

Rant over for the day.

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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #95 on: November 17, 2004, 09:21:18 am »
someone how teef two just reminded me of another example i can pose. in some of the remote communities in australia there are high rates of unemployment and depression. how do the kids cope? some of them sniff petrol, or glue. as teef says, people will always do drugs. many in moderation, but people with problems will abuse. if something more suitable is not available then people will turn to some rather nasty alternatives. if you can't ever completely stop the flow of illicit drug production (i mean, they can't even keep it out of prisons!), how the hell can you stop people using petrol or glue? right now, they've developed a petrol for the communities that doesn't get you high (the aromatics are different). what does it matter. some nasty piece of work is just going to start bringing in good old fashioned petrol and sell it at a premium to users. thanks BP for creating a new kind of drug pusher!!
 again, it comes down to addressing the problems that lead kids to substance abuse.


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locash

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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #96 on: November 17, 2004, 10:22:37 am »
I'm a big fan of prioritization by the government.  I also realize there's a slim to none possibility that it will ever happen.
Huh?  What's being prioritized?
"I believe that every individual is naturally entitled to do as he pleases with himself and the fruits of his labor, so far as it in no way interferes with any other men's rights."
Abraham Lincoln

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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #97 on: November 17, 2004, 10:26:10 am »
What it all boils down to is self-control. If you can teach that to society then you go an awful long way to stopping the drugs problem.
in this day and age of passing personal responsibility onto someone else so a person can do what they want, or make enormous sums of money due to their own stupidity, your idea is "pie-in-the-sky" thinking.

While I like pie, and agree with your premise, it's simply never again going to happen.  When someone can make millions from McD's because they didn't sufficiently label a product that is, has, and will continue to be, enjoyed in it's HOT form - something, btw, that could be ascertained simply by grabbing the cup and noticing, "hey, that stuff's warm" - then our personal responsibility and self-control in other areas will be pushed until we no longer bear any responsibility for our actions.  

When simple hand irons cease to require the warning "Caution - do not iron clothes while on your body", THAT will be the day I see self-control and responsibility for your own actions coming back.  

Look around.  The government is working to legislate away personal responsibility all the time.
You’re always in control of your behavior. Sometimes you just control yourself
in ways that you later wish you hadn’t

locash

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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #98 on: November 17, 2004, 10:35:59 am »
"We've been tempted to believe that society has become too complex to be managed by self-rule, that government by an elite group is superior to government for, by, and of the people. Well, if no one among us is capable of government himself, then who among us has the capacity to govern someone else?"
  --  Ronald Reagan

I couldn't have said it better
"I believe that every individual is naturally entitled to do as he pleases with himself and the fruits of his labor, so far as it in no way interferes with any other men's rights."
Abraham Lincoln

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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #99 on: November 17, 2004, 12:02:05 pm »
you know what? Ive seen the errors of my ways. I am going to flush out all peopel who have used or do use drugs:

Pink floyd, Led Zepplin, The Beatles, Jesus Christ, Placebo, Korn, KMFDM, Chuck Berry, The Rolling Stones, Mozart, Bach, Beethoven, Slipknot, Bob Marley, Ziggy Marley, Sublime, Alice In Chains, Nirvana, George W. Bush, Janis Jopplin, Jimmi Hendrix. (Just to name a few) of course drugs never enhanced them, and they don't contribute a thing to society. In fact, they've ruined their lives and the lives of everyone around them from their use. Everyone here's right


(removes tongue out of cheek)

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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #100 on: November 17, 2004, 12:58:50 pm »
                                                             


       



                                   

You’re always in control of your behavior. Sometimes you just control yourself
in ways that you later wish you hadn’t

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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #101 on: November 17, 2004, 01:10:27 pm »
forget drug abuse. thats clear smiley abuse ;)

DrewKaree

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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #102 on: November 17, 2004, 01:23:38 pm »
forget drug abuse. thats clear smiley abuse ;)


                         
         
                       

and there's more where that came from!

Guess we told him, right dude?

               



 ;)
You’re always in control of your behavior. Sometimes you just control yourself
in ways that you later wish you hadn’t

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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #103 on: November 17, 2004, 01:25:59 pm »
hahaha. *smokes some more oregano*

(paying homage to the drew ;))

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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #104 on: November 17, 2004, 02:00:26 pm »
you know what? Ive seen the errors of my ways. I am going to flush out all peopel who have used or do use drugs:

...

In fact, they've ruined their lives and the lives of everyone around them from their use. Everyone here's right

You are not them, you are just kid that got busted and can't spell people.

Good luck.

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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #105 on: November 17, 2004, 02:06:05 pm »
you know what? Ive seen the errors of my ways. I am going to flush out all peopel who have used or do use drugs:

...

In fact, they've ruined their lives and the lives of everyone around them from their use. Everyone here's right

You are not them, you are just kid that got busted and can't spell people.

Good luck.

youve missed my entire point. people here keep going on about how drugs ruin everyones lives if they touch them. heres my proof that it doesnt.

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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #106 on: November 17, 2004, 02:47:40 pm »
Hey!  My thumb is huuuuuuuge.  Oh man, it looks like the walls are melting!  This is the BEST gravy I have EVER eaten!  DAMN you scared me sneaking up on me like that!!!!  Dude, mind the 3 T's if you don't mind.  Whoa, spinach.  

 8)
Back for nostalgia, based on nostalgia.

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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #107 on: November 17, 2004, 03:35:06 pm »
youve missed my entire point. people here keep going on about how drugs ruin everyones lives if they touch them. heres my proof that it doesnt.

That was your point?!  A number of people on your list died as a direct result of drug or alcohol abuse.  And how did Jesus make this list?  
"I believe that every individual is naturally entitled to do as he pleases with himself and the fruits of his labor, so far as it in no way interferes with any other men's rights."
Abraham Lincoln

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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #108 on: November 17, 2004, 03:42:38 pm »
It was proven that Jesus used it to heal the lame and the blind. Lemme look for the news link again


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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #110 on: November 17, 2004, 03:53:28 pm »
It was proven that Jesus used it to heal the lame and the blind. Lemme look for the news link again
Who cares.

My point was your point is pointless.

You are not Jesus.  Drugs will not help you.

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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #111 on: November 17, 2004, 04:00:40 pm »
... ---gosh-darn--- it, please just leave. ur frustrating me (although that was probably YOUR point)

DrewKaree

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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #112 on: November 17, 2004, 04:03:25 pm »
Nor will they make your splelign any bteter - although YOUR drug will make your pizza and pasta dishes taste better!
 ;D
You’re always in control of your behavior. Sometimes you just control yourself
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Floyd10

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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #113 on: November 17, 2004, 04:41:14 pm »
^^ Im sorry, are YOU on weed?

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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #114 on: November 17, 2004, 05:01:47 pm »
^^ Im sorry, are YOU on weed?
No, but I DID stay at a Holiday Inn last night!

They give you a free baggie of oregano and a steamroller upon checkin, and I proceeded to get BAKED potatoes for supper.

                   
You’re always in control of your behavior. Sometimes you just control yourself
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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #115 on: November 17, 2004, 05:13:18 pm »
all of your pics are xed

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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #116 on: November 17, 2004, 06:23:32 pm »
Quote
all of your pics are xed

That'd be the weed talking again, everyone else can see them clearly
« Last Edit: November 17, 2004, 06:24:01 pm by rockhopper »

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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #117 on: November 17, 2004, 09:54:28 pm »
Maybe we should examine the list again.  Janis Joplin and Jimmy Hendrix both are dead because of thier drug addictions!  
Please!  Give me the good news first!

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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #118 on: November 18, 2004, 04:43:37 am »
That Reagan quote was pretty cool. It's always funny that the right wing people are always so much for "freedom". But then when it comes to actually making a stand for giving people the freedom to choose for themselves, "the people" are considered too stupid and the right wing/religeous people feel they need to decide what's best for everyone. Everyone is free to do whatever they like as long as the right wing nutters agree with what you are doing.

Besides they should stick a caution notice on lawyers "CAUTION: Frequent use will destroy society" and make it a really big one (stuck on with with lethal pins) and the problem will go away pretty soon.
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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #119 on: November 18, 2004, 04:46:30 am »
Right, I think this thread has now run it's natural course. Time to move on to something else. I don't believe there is any further purpose in prolonging this as all opinions have now be clearly stated. All that'll happen now is we'll descend slowly into point scoring.

So the call goes out for this thread - TAXI!

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Re:YAY! TODAY SUCKED!!!
« Reply #120 on: November 18, 2004, 07:21:38 am »
some links:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,869273,00.html

http://www.cannabisnews.com/news/thread15121.shtml

http://www.cannabisculture.com/articles/2803.html

http://www.hemp.co.uk/html/bbc0103.html


sorry teef, couldn't let this pass. even though i might be fairly liberal, i can't stand it when people try and attribute EVERYBODIES talent on drugs. 'oh, we found a bit of hemp rope in shakespeares house, therefore he was a stoner'. that sort of thing. i'd like to think SOME people had natural talent. what was bach supposed to be taking, anyway? so for floyd, i give him this link:

http://www.atheists.org/christianity/didjesusexist.html

which would kinda negate any number of links saying jesus was a stoner...


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