Author Topic: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection (Read 46283 times)

ChadTower · « **Reply #80 on:** January 05, 2005, 10:29:02 am »

Hrm, looks like Bob Roberts has the Op Amps and a nice looking VR kit full of common VRs. I'll have to make ANOTHER order from him. Heh. At least he cross ships again, so I'm getting my stuff really quickly. Sucks to pay $6 shipping every time for these tiny things though.

ChadTower · « **Reply #81 on:** January 05, 2005, 10:54:45 am »

Research update:

The DACs appear to be AM6012ADC, and are located at A/B11 and C/D11.

ChadTower · « **Reply #82 on:** January 05, 2005, 11:26:55 am »

Hrm... Peale asked me how many pins are in the DAC, and I looked at the schematic to check. I only see two of these DACs in the schematic, each halfway between the letters in the grid. Maybe A/B11 means "11 at halfway between A and B", which means I only have two potential culprits. At $11 each, that's quite a difference.

fredster · « **Reply #83 on:** January 05, 2005, 05:34:00 pm »

I think you are right, a/b11 is the chip in between A and B, but are you sure that Bob's chips will work? Did Bob tell you that?

ChadTower · « **Reply #84 on:** January 05, 2005, 05:40:57 pm »

Page 33 of the AD manual tells me that Bob's chips will work.

ChadTower · « **Reply #85 on:** January 06, 2005, 12:08:25 pm »

Okay, just to practice before I try and cap that vector monitor... I'm capping the WGk7000 series in my POW cabinet. It needs it anyway and I'd rather mess that monitor up than the Electrohome. Last night I attempted my first discharge, went well and uneventful, took the chassis off and it's on my desk now. I'll be capping it this afternoon and then trying to put it back on.

ChadTower · « **Reply #86 on:** January 06, 2005, 01:59:15 pm »

Doing the WG cap kit now... this is going to take a while, lots of caps and the iron tip keeps gumming up.

ChadTower · « **Reply #87 on:** January 06, 2005, 10:15:25 pm »

Well, I ---fouled up beyond all recognition--- up the cap kit somehow... green is bad, though it was bad before. Some things are better, the green is not. I'm not going near the AD monitor until I can know that I can do a good cap kit.

RayB · « **Reply #88 on:** January 06, 2005, 11:27:49 pm »

Are the potentiometers good?

ChadTower · « **Reply #89 on:** January 07, 2005, 08:12:24 am »

Haven't checked those yet, those and the transistors there are next. How do you test a potentiometer?

ChadTower · « **Reply #90 on:** January 10, 2005, 01:50:50 pm »

Okay, I've been backed off and regrouping a gameplan:

For the WG monitor's green issue: On Randy Fromm's WG7000 troubleshooting flowchart, a green only issue points to these two transistors: Q2 and Q202. I found them on the schematic. One is on the neckboard by the green potentiometers, the other is on the upper right corner of the chassis PCB. I'm going to desolder both of those and test them with the DMM. These are both cheap parts and can be had at Radio Shack.

For the AD board: Discussion with the folks at RGVAC leads me to the DAC and OP Amp in the X section of the video circuit. That's the first and most likely place to check. I have replacement chips on hand from Bob Roberts, but the DACs are $11 each so I don't want to blindly replace them. I've also ordered some SIP sockets so I can desolder the questionable chips and solder in some quality sockets. This will allow me to move them around in appropriate spots so I can observe voltages and figure out which, if only one, is actually bad, while replacing the minimum number of expensive chips. I'm also going to check/clean/rebend if necessary the pins on the PCB edge harness, as well as retinning the edge contacts. I'm actually going to do this first just in case a problem here is causing it to act like the board has problems.

For the AD monitor: Once I think I have the game board in a better working state, I'm going to recap the monitor. I have the cap kit in hand.

For the AD cab: I have a replacement big blue PS cap and will be replacing this as well.

That's my plan going forward, should take me some time to get all of this done since I'm still pretty slow at this stuff. Advice/criticisms/suggestions are welcomed.

fredster · « **Reply #91 on:** January 10, 2005, 04:45:51 pm »

Hi Chad,
Good Idea, don't get burned out.

Answer to this question: How do you test a potentiometer? - Put a clip/test probe on the prong in the middle and one of the sides. Take your ohm meter and set it to any range at first, then move the knob. The meter moves. All the way to 0 to whatever. But it should move.

If you aren't happy with your soldering, remember 1/2 of it is in the solder. Get some .032 60/40 solder and maybe even some .015 60/40. You have the magnifiying glass. Find a board and practice some more. Do a few chips before you go for the AD board.

I say don't worry about the "expensive" chips. Put in the sockets where they belong and just put them in, one at a time. You are in training. Once you get this done it's worth more working and as an assembly than it is dead like that. Tacky but true - you can't make an omlete without breaking a few eggs.

Green on one of those monitors can mean that the tube is bad. Remember the grid cleaning trick Randy has, you can try that too.

I might suggest that if you want to work on wiring harnesses that you buy bob's little tool he uses. I have one of those and I can pull out any molex/wire from my harness in about 0.4 seconds and put it back unscathed. It's a snap if you have the right tools. It's what separates us from the animals.

ChadTower · « **Reply #92 on:** January 11, 2005, 08:14:31 am »

Yeah, I'm going to need a set of molex tools anyway, given that I have two pins here that are also in the queue to be fixed.

SirPeale · « **Reply #93 on:** January 11, 2005, 08:52:00 am »

I actually ended up getting my Molex extractor from Rat-Shack. I think it was ~$7.00. Works *very* well, but took some getting used to to make it work.

ChadTower · « **Reply #94 on:** January 12, 2005, 08:58:13 am »

Dammit. I'm having trouble locating one of those monitor transistors locally and am sick and tired of paying shipping on tiny parts.

SirPeale · « **Reply #95 on:** January 12, 2005, 09:14:56 am »

What you need to do is actually *wait* to get parts. It's hard, I know, to wait when you're making such good headway.

My suggestion would be to make a list of what you need, each week, and place *one* order (if possible) at the end of the week.

ChadTower · « **Reply #96 on:** January 12, 2005, 10:26:53 am »

Yeah, the main issue here is that one problem usually uncovers the next... so it's not entirely possible to know that after the cap kit, I'm going to need to check the transistors.

SirPeale · « **Reply #97 on:** January 12, 2005, 10:58:07 am »

One thing I would do it reflow the solder on *all* solder pads. I'm sure you read that thread in RGVAC regarding that.

ChadTower · « **Reply #98 on:** January 12, 2005, 10:59:34 am »

Quote from: Peale on January 12, 2005, 10:58:07 am

One thing I would do it reflow the solder on *all* solder pads.

SirPeale · « **Reply #99 on:** January 12, 2005, 11:34:01 am »

Heh...sorry, I read directly from the server. I'll see if I can dig it up from Google.

Took me a while, but:

Groups.Google.Com Link

ChadTower · « **Reply #100 on:** January 12, 2005, 11:43:24 am »

Good stuff, I'll add solder reflow to my gameplan. My list just keeps getting longer and longer.

ChadTower · « **Reply #101 on:** January 12, 2005, 08:10:10 pm »

Okay, I'm looking at the solder joints and... no. There are too many that I can't tell whether or not they overlap. I'm going to try replacing those two transistors first and see what that does before I go risking this.

ChadTower · « **Reply #102 on:** January 12, 2005, 08:32:42 pm »

Quote from: ChadTower on January 10, 2005, 01:50:50 pm

Okay, I've been backed off and regrouping a gameplan:

For the WG monitor's green issue:

ChadTower · « **Reply #103 on:** January 12, 2005, 08:51:58 pm »

Testing Q2, test results iffy, I have several on hand, will replace.

ChadTower · « **Reply #104 on:** January 12, 2005, 09:21:20 pm »

DAMMIT... now it's dead. Dead dead. No tube glow, no picture. Dead.

ChadTower · « **Reply #105 on:** January 12, 2005, 09:23:19 pm »

GRRR. I am just making everything worse that I touch. GOD I suck at this. I should just pack it in.

If it's not a blown fuse, I have no idea what I did to this thing to kill it. And I can't get at the fuse without dismantling the chassis AGAIN.

ChadTower · « **Reply #106 on:** January 12, 2005, 09:41:15 pm »

Okay I've gone upstairs, had a beer... I feel a bit better. Still pissed, though. Man I hope it's the fuse.

ChadTower · « **Reply #107 on:** January 13, 2005, 09:46:27 am »

The fuse is 1.5V, SB... I'll snag a few of those on the way home.

ChadTower · « **Reply #108 on:** January 15, 2005, 10:32:48 am »

Okay, the SIP sockets came in the mail. I'm going to take some time on my practice boards and remove some ICs, maybe put the SIP sockets into those boards until I'm confident enough that I can do the AD board without risk.

I just wish I could figure out why I keep messing up my iron tips.

ChadTower · « **Reply #109 on:** January 15, 2005, 10:34:37 am »

Oh, and I have a lot of reading to do on Randy Fromm's technical site, as well as some videos to watch so that I can put a good test on that AD power supply.

ChadTower · « **Reply #110 on:** January 17, 2005, 09:58:57 pm »

I had planned on doing some PCB work tonight, but my work area is 50 degrees tonight at the most... it can wait.

ChadTower · « **Reply #111 on:** March 22, 2009, 09:03:06 am »

Update to long dormant project!

I had brought the boards and monitor to a local repair guy at the same time I brought my Tank II project over. That was about a year ago. He mostly sat on them until I saw him in December and reminded him that I do actually want them back at some point. I stopped in yesterday and he had finished the monitor so I have that back. He actually had some Asteroids boards on his bench and said he had been working on them off and on so mine should be done soon... though now he swears I brought him an Asteroids board and not an AD board.

Just read through this thread... wow I've come along way since then.

Wish I had taken some pictures so I could be sure I DID give him an AD board.

Spyridon · « **Reply #112 on:** March 31, 2009, 07:50:30 pm »

Wow, 4 years between posts and no progress??? Hope you get this going. I recently picked up an AD and it's a great game.

ChadTower · « **Reply #113 on:** April 04, 2009, 01:37:39 pm »

Monitor is back in but no board yet... still have to hunt that down. Pics will come this weekend.

Kevin Mullins · « **Reply #114 on:** April 05, 2009, 05:53:14 pm »

Ironically enough, I just recently picked up an AD cabinet to replace my damaged cabinet I've had in storage.
Had to rebuild the G05-802 monitor because it decided to fry on me after sitting in storage for a couple years when I put it in the new cabinet.

Vectors, ya either love em' or hate em'.

Do you have a game pcb at all or is it just dead ?

ChadTower · « **Reply #115 on:** April 05, 2009, 05:57:09 pm »

Had one... this one was pretty much untouched from the original op that owned it. He put it in storage when it died and never touched it again. I didn't have much for soldering or repair skills back then. About a year ago I gave the board to a local repair guy to fix and he still has it - only now he swears I gave him a regular Asteroids board. I need to push him on that and get it back.

Kevin Mullins · « **Reply #116 on:** April 05, 2009, 06:16:54 pm »

I had to repair my original boardset when I got the first machine....nothing worked in it.
I used Randy Fromm's technique for testing TTL chips and found like ten suspects and after changing those it fired right up.

ChadTower · « **Reply #117 on:** April 05, 2009, 07:36:01 pm »

Quote from: Kevin Mullins on April 05, 2009, 06:16:54 pm

I had to repair my original boardset when I got the first machine....nothing worked in it.
I used Randy Fromm's technique for testing TTL chips and found like ten suspects and after changing those it fired right up.

With as much as I still have to learn my skills are so much more than they were when I was in that thread... maybe if I read through Randy's stuff now I'd actually get it. I'll review it, thanks for the pointers. Is that only in the book or would it be on what was his web page? I did download his website before it went away.

Kevin Mullins · « **Reply #118 on:** April 05, 2009, 09:03:24 pm »

I think there was a spot about it on his site...... but honestly don't recall where I got it from. I have a copy of his books, I might have stumbled across it in one of those.

But the jist of it is to use a DMM with the positive lead on ground and probing each chip looking for dead shorts. If a dead short is found, verify whether it has direct connection to ground somewhere/somehow. I f no direct connection to ground is found, consider it suspect.

Level42 · « **Reply #119 on:** April 09, 2009, 06:38:46 pm »

Quote from: Kevin Mullins on April 05, 2009, 09:03:24 pm

I think there was a spot about it on his site...... but honestly don't recall where I got it from. I have a copy of his books, I might have stumbled across it in one of those.

But the jist of it is to use a DMM with the positive lead on ground and probing each chip looking for dead shorts. If a dead short is found, verify whether it has direct connection to ground somewhere/somehow. I f no direct connection to ground is found, consider it suspect.

Hah, I like these kind of tracing methods. They usually are much quicker than the scientific ways !

The board repairs I've done so far (all on the Centi) was by smelling an overheated component, then feeling what got overheated, turned out to be a transistor. From there, I followed the schematics.

With the audio issue I "fingered" the board around the audio amp chip. Sound really changed depending on where I held my finger. (Of course I had discharged myself prior to doing the fingering).

Another trick: If you have a completely frozen board, short +5V to the reset pin for a couple of seconds and see if the game starts.....

I would love to have Randy's book or stuff, is it still available ?


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