Author Topic: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection (Read 46279 times)

ChadTower · « **Reply #40 on:** December 07, 2004, 10:20:08 am »

No, I'm not bidding at all, I'd like to rebuild mine. If that can't be done, and this is a VERY clean set of boards, I'll replace them. They should be rebuildable, though. There isn't even dust on these boards. They probably sat idle for 10+ years.

ChadTower · « **Reply #41 on:** December 17, 2004, 09:13:10 am »

The replacement RAM (4 chips, only need 1 as of now anyway) and the AR rebuild kit arrived yesterday. I tried to do the rebuild with the Cold Heat iron. What a piece of CRAP that thing is. Granted, I'm still a newbie solderer, but I couldn't even get the first cap off properly with it. The tip is just too loose, then all of a sudden the thing is a billion degrees.

I'm going to try it tonight with my crappy, but traditional, soldering iron. At least I gave up on the Cold Heat tool before I got too pissed off and damaged anything.

cbmeeks · « **Reply #42 on:** December 17, 2004, 10:04:19 am »

I almost bought one of those Cold Heat irons...then I read how crappy they were.

So, I broke my $8 soldering iron from Radio Shack...doing something stupid...

Then, I go to WalMart and buy their $4 soldering iron...man what a turd it is!! The tip doesn't even get that hot...I can actually TOUCH the pointed tip....only the side of the tip gets hot...

man, walmart is such crap.

So, I will have to go out and buy me a GOOD soldering iron...

ANYWAY, back to your cab...keep us posted because I'd like to see that thing going

cb

ChadTower · « **Reply #43 on:** December 17, 2004, 10:26:04 am »

Quote from: cbmeeks on December 17, 2004, 10:04:19 am

Then, I go to WalMart and buy their $4 soldering iron...man what a turd it is!!

whammoed · « **Reply #44 on:** December 17, 2004, 12:46:31 pm »

great for the price:

http://www.dameon.net/BBBB/sskit.html

ChadTower · « **Reply #45 on:** December 17, 2004, 12:51:12 pm »

Thanks, though I already have a vacuum pump and that iron doesn't look much different than mine. I think I'm going to order this one:

http://mcm.newark.com/NewarkWebCommerce/mcm/en_US/endecaSearch/partDetail.jsp?SKU=21-6050&N=4

ChadTower · « **Reply #46 on:** December 30, 2004, 10:58:51 am »

Did a bit more soldering practice, had some luck with the braid. Ordered a cap kit for the monitor... will tackle the AR board this weekend, most likely. Still need to test the PS.

RayB · « **Reply #47 on:** December 30, 2004, 11:58:50 am »

I guess it's too late, but you should've ordered a new "big blue" at the same time... Doesn't hurt to have fresh caps in ALL parts of the machine.

~Ray B.

ChadTower · « **Reply #48 on:** December 30, 2004, 12:26:59 pm »

I figured that, but I'm trying to limit my outlay to items I will be able to work with before I'm 30.

RayB · « **Reply #49 on:** December 30, 2004, 12:47:28 pm »

Yeah but....... You're going about this a little backwards... You'll have your AR-II board re-built without know if the PS is putting out the correct voltage level. I hope you don't fry your nice new parts.

ChadTower · « **Reply #50 on:** December 30, 2004, 12:49:56 pm »

It's true...

Could someone answer this for me?

Question: Can I test it after unplugging all of the components from the power supply? As in, unplug the line after the fuse going to the panel, the marquee, the monitor, the board... I remember reading that you can't test a power supply that is not under load. What is the exact method I should be using? I picked up a multimeter and read the instructions, so I'm good with that... but as for some of the other things I'm a bit nervous.

ChadTower · « **Reply #51 on:** December 30, 2004, 01:51:12 pm »

Added a big blue cap to my BobRoberts order.

ChadTower · « **Reply #52 on:** December 31, 2004, 10:19:36 am »

Bob cross shipped, so my cap and cap kit should be here 1/3... I'm working on this AR board now. Maybe my soldering frustration was that the post I was trying to desolder was a bitchy one. The other one came out not much sweat. I have the bitchy one out now, hopefully I didn't kill the trace.

ChadTower · « **Reply #53 on:** December 31, 2004, 01:43:34 pm »

AR Rebuild is done. All caps have been replaced. I took a break after that first cap and did about two hours of practice desoldering on a modern, junky board. I got much better at removing things, removing tiny diodes and LEDs. After that, the AR caps were a piece of cake.

I didn't replace the other pieces in the rebuild kit... what I THINK is the voltage regultor, a diode, and some other little square thing I'm not sure of... not yet, anyway.

ChadTower · « **Reply #54 on:** December 31, 2004, 02:10:48 pm »

The RAM that the self test was toning as bad is replaced... socketed, this time. Everything is plugged in now except the CP. I'm going to power it up in a couple of minutes.

ChadTower · « **Reply #55 on:** December 31, 2004, 02:29:35 pm »

HA. Oddness. I saw some glow from the back of the monitor but nothing from the front. I need to clean off all of the pieces anyway, so I took off the bezel and translucent overlay... the black side flaps of the overlay had fallen on the monitor! No wonder I couldn't see ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---. Let's see how it works now that I can actually see the monitor.

Heh, this is the first time I've taken an arcade cab apart.

ChadTower · « **Reply #56 on:** December 31, 2004, 02:32:59 pm »

Well... not much from the monitor. Some faint glow in the neck, nothing else. No spot killer. No game audio... just a hum. No marquee light, yes to coin door lights. I'm going to wait until the big blue cap comes in next week to try again... in the meantime I can clean up the bezel, CP, etc...

RayB · « **Reply #57 on:** December 31, 2004, 04:29:46 pm »

Chad, did you check the voltages on the AR-II? (cuz you might have to adjust it with the potentiometer).

Next comment: I too was very tempted to only replace certain parts until I found that the board worked, but then I thought... "I paid for all these brand new parts, what is the point in not using them all?" Think about it, you can either have a bag of new parts sitting doing nothing, just waiting for another of the old parts to fail, or you can use the whole kit, and keep a bag of spare old parts just in case. (You know, you'd have a reliable "rebuilt board" rather than just a "repaired board". Just keep the old parts.)

Another thought: If the voltage regulators are bad, they could blow some of your new parts! So might as well replace them too.

~Ray B.

ChadTower · « **Reply #58 on:** December 31, 2004, 09:22:10 pm »

The main issue: there are those three square parts that are vertical... and only one in the bag. I'm not sure if they're all the same, and if not, which one that would be! Plus, the diode, not sure where that would go either since there's only one.

I don't know how to check the voltages on the ARII...

RayB · « **Reply #59 on:** January 01, 2005, 11:32:15 am »

Quote

there are those three square parts that are vertical... and only one in the bag.

ChadTower · « **Reply #60 on:** January 01, 2005, 12:14:44 pm »

Quote from: RayB on January 01, 2005, 11:32:15 am

You sure there's only 1? Are you referring to the black transistor with 3 legs, and it stands attached to that giant heat sink?

Yep, and there's only one in the bag.

Quote

The kit I got (for an -02 board) had 2. Yet the board itself has 5 of those things. The way to figure out which to replace, is that Bob's kit comes with a handy little sheet that tells you where! Bob labelled every part according to the position on the board. If you look on the board, for example, every capacitor is named, such as C1, C2, etc... Resistors are named R1, R2, and so forth. I forget what the transistors are named, I think it's Q1, Q2?? Anyways, just look on his sheet for that number, and then match it to the correct position on the board.

My board has three pf the square parts (I guess they're the transistors), not 5. And my kit didn't come with a sheet of paper.

Quote

I don't know how to check the voltages on the ARII...

RayB · « **Reply #61 on:** January 01, 2005, 01:20:18 pm »

Quote from: ChadTower on January 01, 2005, 12:14:44 pm

The AR board itself has rings for +5 and +10.3, but no 12.

ChadTower · « **Reply #62 on:** January 01, 2005, 04:00:17 pm »

From the 10.3: 11.64
From the 5.0: 5.1

Is the 11.64 acceptable?

RayB · « **Reply #63 on:** January 01, 2005, 10:22:55 pm »

I get the same kind of readings. Should be acceptable. It *IS* high, but what can you do... If you lower the voltage knob, you'll get too low on the +5...

Did you measure the +12 on the game board (assuming there is one, or is the +10 on the game board??)

Should be fine. How's the game board doing? Working or hollering?

ChadTower · « **Reply #64 on:** January 02, 2005, 12:56:52 am »

Hard to tell what the game board is doing. I have only an audio hum and a faint glow in the neck (no spot killer). I'm going to take a hard look at the edge connector tomorrow and test the leads on the PCB. I just wanted to make sure the 10.3 value wasn't out of acceptable range before turning the sucker on for too long.

Should I retin the edge contacts? I haven't done that yet but have been shown how.

RayB · « **Reply #65 on:** January 03, 2005, 02:03:56 pm »

An audio hum probably means your AR-II board isn't quite 100% yet, or it could also mean the volume is set too high

I'm afraid I can't offer much more advice beyond this as my experience is only a couple baby steps ahead of yours. As for the edge connectors, I just clean them with a pink eraser.

~Ray

ChadTower · « **Reply #66 on:** January 03, 2005, 03:26:30 pm »

Quote from: RayB on January 03, 2005, 02:03:56 pm

An audio hum probably means your AR-II board isn't quite 100% yet, or it could also mean the volume is set too high

DarkKobold · « **Reply #67 on:** January 03, 2005, 05:23:04 pm »

Uh, if Asteroids Deluxe is anything like Asteroids, the hum is gonna be there for all of time.
Seen here
(mind you, this advice is all from my Asteroids knowledge)
I've read that if you connect a wire from the frame of the speaker to the ground on the ARII, then you can kill the buzz.
Meanwhile, if you don't coin up, and don't have the panel connected, you can't tell diddly shtuff except that the board is getting power (red led). There are no attract mode noises, so you can't expect something to happen. Also, did you try adjusting the brightness and contrast on the vector?
Turning the brightness all the way up overrides the spot killer (DONT DO THIS FOR MORE THAN A FEW SECONDS!!!!!!!) You can see if you are getting only veritical or only horizontal deflection.
Did you check the board for chips that seemed extremely hot? That means they are bad?
Have you check to make sure that you are getting the correct voltages on the board? If you have a substantailly lower at the board, then you have a harness problem, and you will most likely start to burn your harness contacts.

Also, hook the multimeter to the X and Y test points, make sure they are fluxing!!!
Have you read the Asteroids Repair Encyclopedia? Have you read it multiple times? Have you read it over there? Have you read it eating limes?

Seriously.

ChadTower · « **Reply #68 on:** January 03, 2005, 09:26:42 pm »

Without redoing the edge connector or the contacts, yet, just took
these measurements from the PCB:

Audio: 11V
X: varied from -12mV to 200mV
Y: varied from 1.8V to 2.9V
Z: varied from 0.65V to 0.95V

How are those looking?

Where is the Asteroids Repair Encyclopedia?

EDIT: Google is cool. Found it. Will read intently. Didn't know this existed!

ChadTower · « **Reply #69 on:** January 03, 2005, 10:07:22 pm »

IT PLAYS!

I put the CP back on, coined it up... pressed the start button... it plays!

DarkKobold · « **Reply #70 on:** January 04, 2005, 12:40:52 am »

You may also need to replace the starters. I always do when I change the bulb, since they are 50c a piece from Bob Roberts. Never had one not start up after that.

RayB · « **Reply #71 on:** January 04, 2005, 12:52:03 am »

Concentrate on the monitor first. You don't know how stupid I felt when I rebuilt my trackballs FIRST, ordered new t-molding, replaced the lock, blah blah blah, only to find out the AR-II didn't work and not even knowing if the monitor worked.

ChadTower · « **Reply #72 on:** January 04, 2005, 07:57:24 am »

Well it's pretty certain that the monitor doesn't work... that's my next job, rebuilding that. Cap kit will be done this week, just have to build a decent discharge tool first.

Good idea on the starters... I'll snag some of those at the local hardware store.

clanggedin · « **Reply #73 on:** January 04, 2005, 11:36:37 am »

It's great to hear your progress on the Asteroids Deluxe. I just spent the past week resurrecting a DK Jr. Had to re-wire the cp and controls, install a cap kit, replace the floresent fixture, and add new switches and locks to the coin doors. Now it plays like a champ and I am in the repainting process.

Can't wait to see pics of it when you are done.

ChadTower · « **Reply #74 on:** January 04, 2005, 12:23:28 pm »

Heh, no point in pics now, it looks the same but without bezel, marquee, back door, and the CP is open.

I just picked up some alligator clips and 12G wire to make a discharge tool. Is 12G thick enough?

ChadTower · « **Reply #75 on:** January 04, 2005, 01:13:39 pm »

From the Asteroids Repair Encyclopedia:

13. Problem: Game played but nothing on the screen except for a general glow that varied as the game was played blind, X and Y outputs were erratic

Fix: 7915CT voltage regulator at VR2 was bad

ChadTower · « **Reply #76 on:** January 04, 2005, 04:49:28 pm »

More research turns up proper ranges:

+10V to -10V on the X out or+7.5V to -7.5V on the Y

I'm hoping that retinning the edge contacts and cleaning the harness pins take care of that...

ChadTower · « **Reply #77 on:** January 05, 2005, 09:16:19 am »

Folks on RGVAC seem to think it's bad op amps in the XY section of the PCB. Seeing as how I don't know what op amps are yet, I have some reading to do. A quick RGVAC search on "op amp" seems to turn up 90% questions about vector games, so I'm assuming at this point it's something specific to vector PCBs... will keep updating as I turn up more.

Or am I updating too often? I figured since I'd received so many PMs in support, maybe folks would be interested in following the research/learning curve as well. LMK.

SirPeale · « **Reply #78 on:** January 05, 2005, 09:36:31 am »

Updates are great. Gives a play-by-play repair log.

ChadTower · « **Reply #79 on:** January 05, 2005, 09:38:43 am »

Cool. So far, googling RGVAC has turned up that the op amps are 8 pin chips, so that should make them easy to find down by the X/Y test leads. Tempest uses a TL082, I guess, so that's another clue. Seems that nonvectors also have op amps but they fail a lot less there.

I've also seen suggestions of bad DACs... a quick google turns that up as Digital to Analog Converter, which I figured anyway.


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