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Author Topic: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection  (Read 45990 times)

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ChadTower

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Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« on: October 16, 2004, 10:17:35 am »
I just picked up a really nice Asteroids Deluxe ($75!) but the power supply is dead.  Anyone have one of these around?

« Last Edit: October 18, 2004, 12:02:23 pm by ChadTower »

Peter Baluk

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Re:NEEDED: Asteroids power supply
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2004, 12:18:57 pm »
can you send a oicture of the power supply
IF IT HAS ,TIRES

RayB

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Re:NEEDED: Asteroids power supply
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2004, 02:38:34 pm »
How much troubleshooting did you do before declaring it dead? There isn't much technology to power supplies, especially Atari's. First thing to look up are the fuses. There should be a cardboard cover and underneath that 4 fuses. Check those. There is also another fuse inside a black barrel style fuse holder. Check that (and check to make sure the fuse holder itself isn't broken).

Also, the board should have a white plug with a bunch of "looped" wiring (looks like the wiring doesn't go anywhere but back to the same white plug). If this is missing, it won't work. This wire plug is what configures the power supply for different power inputs (ie: 110volts or 240 volts, etc...)

Lastly, these power supplies have a big blue capacitor on them that by now tends to get wonky. Replacing that might be the solution (Bob Roberts sells them. Calls them "Atari Big Blue").

~Ray B.
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Re:NEEDED: Asteroids power supply
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2004, 08:02:53 pm »
When you say you need a power supply, are you referring to the power brick at the bottom of the cab (metal box with transformer, fuses and a blue cap)  OR are you referring to the A/R board (audio and power supply regulator board) ??

You should be able to  find a brick on Ebay.   A/R boards are usually easily fixable.   If you wanted to ship me your A/R board I can fix it for you.


D
 

ChadTower

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Re:NEEDED: Asteroids power supply
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2004, 09:12:51 pm »
I pick up the cab tomorrow morning, so at this point I am going on the word of the seller.  I will provide more details when I get the cab.

ChadTower

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Re:NEEDED: Asteroids power supply
« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2004, 08:21:10 am »
I have it now... what's the first things I check?  I'm new to the whole electric diagnosis thing...

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Re:NEEDED: Asteroids power supply
« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2004, 09:52:44 am »
If you end up needing a power supply, drop a line to Todd at TNT Amusements.  I got my DK power supply from him for about half price for what one was going on eBay for including the shipping.  Here's his website.

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Re:NEEDED: Asteroids power supply
« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2004, 10:03:54 am »
Ok whoa, slow down Killer. The power supply of an asteroids/deluxe never "dies"

First off, the power supply only consists of 4 main things - The atari "Big blue" cap, the isolation transformer, the bridge rectifier, and the fuses.

You are going to need a multimeter to start fixing. First: Check all fuses on the power supply for connectivity (i.e. 0 ohms)
Second, unplug the main board - check both DC voltage and AC voltage on the 10.3V and 5V sections.
Third, the ISO transformer NEVER dies. don't bother trying to replace the powersupply. I will write more later if you haven't been overwhelmed.
-------------------------------------
My games: Tapper, Asteroids, Cocktail-MAME, Tron, ROTJ, Tempest, Star Wars (not working)
My wants: Warlords Cocktail

ChadTower

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Re:NEEDED: Asteroids power supply
« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2004, 10:31:17 am »
Ok whoa, slow down Killer. The power supply of an asteroids/deluxe never "dies"

First off, the power supply only consists of 4 main things - The atari "Big blue" cap, the isolation transformer, the bridge rectifier, and the fuses.

You are going to need a multimeter to start fixing. First: Check all fuses on the power supply for connectivity (i.e. 0 ohms)
Second, unplug the main board - check both DC voltage and AC voltage on the 10.3V and 5V sections.
Third, the ISO transformer NEVER dies. don't bother trying to replace the powersupply. I will write more later if you haven't been overwhelmed.


Excellent... I haven't learned to use a multimeter yet.  Now is a good time.  Is there a decent, inexpensive model you can recommend?  I'm going to be making a good amount of use of it as I also have a Tank II I need to resurrect.

RayB

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Re:NEEDED: Asteroids power supply
« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2004, 10:40:31 am »
Chad,
Full instructions on what to check are already posted in this thread. How about re-reading the posts?
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ChadTower

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Re:NEEDED: Asteroids power supply
« Reply #10 on: October 18, 2004, 10:45:13 am »
Chad,
Full instructions on what to check are already posted in this thread. How about re-reading the posts?


I did.  I know what to check according to the instructions herein.  Alas, being new to this, I'm not sure yet HOW.  That's what I need to figure out.  I located this:

http://store.wholesaler-depot-2.com/602-010.html

And I'm assuming that's a decent price for that based on the person that recommended it.  So my next step is to order that and learn how to use it.

RayB

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Re:Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2004, 02:07:50 pm »
Well Chad,

Step one is checking fuses. You do that by looking at them to see if they've burnt up. The metal filament in the glass tube will be broken. If it's not broken, it's still good.

That's step one.

Step two is checking if you even have an Audio Regulator II board in there. It's about 12 inches by 6 inches and seperate from the game's main circuit board.

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ChadTower

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Re:Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #12 on: October 18, 2004, 02:16:01 pm »
Well Chad,

Step one is checking fuses. You do that by looking at them to see if they've burnt up. The metal filament in the glass tube will be broken. If it's not broken, it's still good.

That's step one.

Step two is checking if you even have an Audio Regulator II board in there. It's about 12 inches by 6 inches and seperate from the game's main circuit board.

When I picked the machine up I took a peek at the fuses.  They looked intact based on initial inspection but I didn't really look hard.  I'll review that tonight and check for the ARII board.

RayB

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Re:Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #13 on: October 18, 2004, 04:01:06 pm »
The other non-technical things to check for are disconnected or broken wires, rust on the fuse clips, etc. If everything appears to be hooked up correctly, then you'll have to get a multimeter and start measuring power levels...

Oh and I'd highly recommend you go and download the PDF of the manual for that specific game. Atari did a great job of including diagrams and detail parts lists. Should help you get familiarized with what's what.
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ChadTower

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Re:Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #14 on: October 18, 2004, 04:49:13 pm »
Oh and I'd highly recommend you go and download the PDF of the manual for that specific game. Atari did a great job of including diagrams and detail parts lists. Should help you get familiarized with what's what.

Got them at KLOV... I'm going to assume here that the Asteroids manual will be accurate for Asteroids Deluxe, too...

ChadTower

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Re:Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #15 on: October 18, 2004, 08:38:29 pm »
WOO!

I opened it up, taped both cutoff switches closed, and it powered up.  Now I get lit LEDs and 6 tones.  5 high tones and 1 low tone.  

Now to crack the manual and see how to work with that, I assume that's an unhappy 6th ram IC.

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Re:Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #16 on: October 19, 2004, 08:22:50 am »
hoolydooly youre a fast learner, chad!!

one tip for checking fuses. dont just look at them. no else mentioned this but the best way to be sure is to check continuity with your new multimeter. sometimes fuse filaments just have a hairline crack and its hard to tell by eye...


ROUGHING UP THE SUSPECT SINCE 1981

ChadTower

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Re:Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #17 on: October 19, 2004, 09:25:59 am »
hoolydooly youre a fast learner, chad!!

one tip for checking fuses. dont just look at them. no else mentioned this but the best way to be sure is to check continuity with your new multimeter. sometimes fuse filaments just have a hairline crack and its hard to tell by eye...

Yeah, I'm not a newbie to electronics, I'm a newbie to electrical wiring.  I don't have the multimeter yet, i'll probably order that on friday when I get paid.

Are there any real consequences to just replacing all of the fuses with new ones?  Those suckers are probably 20 years old.  Besides, I got power to a few places, so I know at least a couple of them are good.  The control panel had power (love those red LEDs) and the main board had power or it wouldn't have tried to boot.  I guess next I can try to toggle the selftest switch and see what happens there.  I don't know if it was set to test or play.

I would have gone a bit further but the Sox game hit the 10th inning and my sobriety level hit past the point of playing with electricity.

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Re:Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #18 on: October 19, 2004, 10:10:28 am »
I'm going to assume here that the Asteroids manual will be accurate for Asteroids Deluxe, too...

Depends. Was "Deluxe" just an enhancement to the original game board? (Like new chips or a daughter-card?) Or was it a completely dedicated new game? If complete dedicated, then there could have been some minor parts revisions somewhere...

But you're getting beeps! That's great.


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ChadTower

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Re:Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #19 on: October 19, 2004, 11:34:26 am »
Depends. Was "Deluxe" just an enhancement to the original game board? (Like new chips or a daughter-card?) Or was it a completely dedicated new game? If complete dedicated, then there could have been some minor parts revisions somewhere...

But you're getting beeps! That's great.

I'm not 100% sure yet.  I haven't had time to really determine that.  The Asteroids manual is at least useful enough to help me with specific troubleshooting items like what those beeps mean.

I don't know about the boards, but I do know that AD is a different cabinet than Asteroids.  Different shape.

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Re:Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #20 on: October 19, 2004, 05:19:50 pm »
Asteroids Deluxe was definately a new board. Different voltages required too, i.e. different audio regulator board. As far as that goes, you can plug an asteroids into an asteroids deluxe harness, the sound just ends up being distorted. This group isn't really the best source of information. You should read old posts about asteroids on google groups.

As far as replacing fuses, go ahead, just make sure you get correct amperage and slow blow or fast blow, depending.

Alex Yeckley does a bang up job repairing Asteroids/Deluxe boards.
http://www.elektronforge.com/

Also, get the real asteroids deluxe manual:
http://www.klov.com/game_detail.php?letter=A&game_id=6940

« Last Edit: October 19, 2004, 05:21:02 pm by DarkKobold »
-------------------------------------
My games: Tapper, Asteroids, Cocktail-MAME, Tron, ROTJ, Tempest, Star Wars (not working)
My wants: Warlords Cocktail

ChadTower

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Re:Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #21 on: October 20, 2004, 12:30:42 am »
Also, get the real asteroids deluxe manual:
http://www.klov.com/game_detail.php?letter=A&game_id=6940

That's the manual I got... it seems to be for Asteroids.

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Re:Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #22 on: October 20, 2004, 08:31:07 am »
It almost painfs me to see all the inaccurate information people are posting! The Asteroids Deluxe PCB is different than the Asteroids PCB.

Also, the Atari 'power supply' is the Audio Reg II board which does fail and usually provides over-voltages to the PCB. The transformer assembly in the bottom of the game feeds voltages to the monitor, Audio Reg II and the lights.

You will need to check the fuses with a continuity meter to make sure they are good.

Download the Asteroids Deluxe manual and schematics from:

http://www.ionpool.net/

The tones you hear indicate either bad RAM or bad ROM.



tm

ChadTower

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Re:Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #23 on: October 20, 2004, 08:56:22 am »
Also, the Atari 'power supply' is the Audio Reg II board which does fail and usually provides over-voltages to the PCB. The transformer assembly in the bottom of the game feeds voltages to the monitor, Audio Reg II and the lights.

You will need to check the fuses with a continuity meter to make sure they are good.

Download the Asteroids Deluxe manual and schematics from:

http://www.ionpool.net/

The tones you hear indicate either bad RAM or bad ROM.

Thanks man.  That sounds a LOT like what I saw when I was looking in the machine.    I didn't even go near it last night.  The Sox were playing.

EDIT:  I don't see the manual there... just some hacks.   ???

EDIT2:  I just found it as PDF on another site.  I'm good to go, as soon as a night comes up with no Sox game.   8)
« Last Edit: October 20, 2004, 09:29:05 am by ChadTower »

ChadTower

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Re:Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #24 on: October 20, 2004, 10:11:24 am »
I just noticed that the ground prong is cut off the plug.  I assume I should replace the cord.  Anythin special about this one, or can I just replace it with a standard 3 prong grounded?

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Re:Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #25 on: October 20, 2004, 10:33:28 am »
I just noticed that the ground prong is cut off the plug.  I assume I should replace the cord.  Anythin special about this one, or can I just replace it with a standard 3 prong grounded?

Pretty standard other than the white molex plug that goes into the power block. You could always cut the old plug off and attach it to your new wire. Bob Roberts sells power cords already hooked up to a brand new molex connector (if you want that shiney new look  ;D or want to be sure that you don't get the wiring mixed up )


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Re:Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #26 on: October 20, 2004, 12:07:52 pm »
Pretty standard other than the white molex plug that goes into the power block. You could always cut the old plug off and attach it to your new wire. Bob Roberts sells power cords already hooked up to a brand new molex connector (if you want that shiney new look  ;D or want to be sure that you don't get the wiring mixed up )

I'll take a look at Bob Roberts' prices.  If it's within a small amount of a regular cord I can do myself, I'll grab one.  If it's substantially more I am confident I can do the mod myself.

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Re:Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #27 on: October 21, 2004, 07:31:32 pm »
It almost painfs me to see all the inaccurate information people are posting! The Asteroids Deluxe PCB is different than the Asteroids PCB.

Also, the Atari 'power supply' is the Audio Reg II board which does fail and usually provides over-voltages to the PCB. The transformer assembly in the bottom of the game feeds voltages to the monitor, Audio Reg II and the lights.

You will need to check the fuses with a continuity meter to make sure they are good.

Download the Asteroids Deluxe manual and schematics from:

http://www.ionpool.net/

The tones you hear indicate either bad RAM or bad ROM.



tm

Actually, the power supply is in the bottom of the cab, the voltage regulator is on the ARI board. BTW, asteroids used an ARI, not an ARII.
-------------------------------------
My games: Tapper, Asteroids, Cocktail-MAME, Tron, ROTJ, Tempest, Star Wars (not working)
My wants: Warlords Cocktail

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Re:Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #29 on: October 21, 2004, 08:43:49 pm »
Okay, I just took the board out, reseated all of the socketed eproms.  I did it very carefully, no bent pins.  Now I don't get any RAM tones, but I don't get much else either.  The light on the board is still on, but I'm not getting sound or picture.  I get the red light on the board, and there is a small amount of light in the back of the monitor tube.  There is a small amount of light in the marquee tube.  The LEDs in the control panel and the bulbs in the coin door are fully lit.

I'm guessing the next thing I need to do is get that multimeter and learn to use it to check the power supply?

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Re:Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #30 on: October 22, 2004, 02:13:00 am »
Yeah, I think that has been said now.... 3 times?

Second, you can really fry stuff if you don't plug everything in properly. The fact that you went from getting something to getting nothing scares me.

The light on the monitor is called the "spot killer" when it is on, that is bad news. You may or may not get a bright white dot in the center of the screen. That dot causes monitor problems if left on too long, i.e. strain on the deflection beam.

Make sure that EVERYTHING is unplugged, first.

You really need to check the voltages on the power supply, then on the AR, and finally, if that is ok, you can plug the main board in.
-------------------------------------
My games: Tapper, Asteroids, Cocktail-MAME, Tron, ROTJ, Tempest, Star Wars (not working)
My wants: Warlords Cocktail

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Re:Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #31 on: October 22, 2004, 07:47:43 am »
Second, you can really fry stuff if you don't plug everything in properly. The fact that you went from getting something to getting nothing scares me.

The light on the monitor is called the "spot killer" when it is on, that is bad news. You may or may not get a bright white dot in the center of the screen. That dot causes monitor problems if left on too long, i.e. strain on the deflection beam.

Make sure that EVERYTHING is unplugged, first.

You really need to check the voltages on the power supply, then on the AR, and finally, if that is ok, you can plug the main board in.

The EPROMs are reseated properly, I'm sure of that.  I was very methodical in taking them out evenly and with the least amount of force possible, and in putting them back in firmly but gently.  I've done that many times on other types of equipment.  None of them showed any corrosion of any kind.

Are we talking about the same light in the tube?  The light I'm talking about is in the neck of the tube, like it's trying to come to life it doesn't have the juice.  I don't know if that was because it was just going to take a while because of bad caps or not since I wasn't going to leave it on very long in that state.

I'm going to Radio Shack to get a multimeter today.

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Re:Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #32 on: October 22, 2004, 03:24:03 pm »
I think the "light in the tube" you are referring to is the picture tube heater filament.

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Re:Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #33 on: October 22, 2004, 04:01:49 pm »
I think the "light in the tube" you are referring to is the picture tube heater filament.

Yeah, that's something along the lines of what I'm thinking.

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Re:Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #34 on: October 22, 2004, 08:25:05 pm »
Chad, it takes a moment for the tube to warm up. You need to watch to see if the red LED on the monitor board lights up. That is the spot killer.

First get your board working, that is #1.
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Re:Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #35 on: October 22, 2004, 08:45:12 pm »
First get your board working, that is #1.

Actually, first measure the voltages... If the AR1 board is pumping out more voltage than it should, well, it's gonna fry the main board.

...
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Re:Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #36 on: October 28, 2004, 09:54:10 am »
I've been sidetracked by the World Series.  Time to get back to this.

Question:  Can I test it after unplugging all of the components from the power supply?  As in, unplug the line after the fuse going to the panel, the marquee, the monitor, the board... I remember reading that you can't test a power supply that is not under load.  What is the exact method I should be using?  I picked up a multimeter and read the instructions, so I'm good with that... but as for some of the other things I'm a bit nervous.

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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #37 on: December 02, 2004, 08:14:22 pm »
Okay, finally got back to this.  I took the PCB out and took a good look at it... one of the chips I put back in had a pin sticking out.  So I reseated that one properly, and now I'm back to the same RAM tones.  Back where I started...

...but good news in that I'm taking the pcb and ARII over to someone tomorrow who may be able to help me figure them out.

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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #38 on: December 06, 2004, 09:06:29 am »
After playing with the PCB on a known working Asteroids Deluxe cab, we got the same RAM tones.  Given that we didn't  have that RAM chip on hand, my friend Rob pulled the chip out that was testing bad and installed a socket for me.  I'm not the best solderer yet so this will be a big help for me.

We also tested the AR board.  We took the voltage regulator out and tested it out of circuit, tested fine.  We took the other regulators out, they tested fine.  We replaced some diodes.  The things don't test well in circuit, though, so I'm going to replace all of the caps on the board and see how that works out.

I have ordered 4 of the RAM chips and an AR rebuild kit from Bob Roberts.

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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #39 on: December 06, 2004, 05:33:31 pm »
There are a couple of people who fix those asteroids boards.

I had Alex Yeckley fix mine for $75.00.  It ended up more because the CPU was out, but he did a good job.

Bob Roberts has a guy that fixes them.

I'm bidding on a power supply on ebay.  ARe you bidding against me?  :o

If you are I'll quit.
They have them on there from time to time.

I have an asteroids deluxe and an asteroids cocktail.


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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #40 on: December 07, 2004, 10:20:08 am »
No, I'm not bidding at all, I'd like to rebuild mine.  If that can't be done, and this is a VERY clean set of boards, I'll replace them.  They should be rebuildable, though.  There isn't even dust on these boards.  They probably sat idle for 10+ years.

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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #41 on: December 17, 2004, 09:13:10 am »

The replacement RAM (4 chips, only need 1 as of now anyway) and the AR rebuild kit arrived yesterday.  I tried to do the rebuild with the Cold Heat iron.  What a piece of CRAP that thing is.  Granted, I'm still a newbie solderer, but I couldn't even get the first cap off properly with it.  The tip is just too loose, then all of a sudden the thing is a billion degrees.

I'm going to try it tonight with my crappy, but traditional, soldering iron.  At least I gave up on the Cold Heat tool before I got too pissed off and damaged anything.

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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #42 on: December 17, 2004, 10:04:19 am »
I almost bought one of those Cold Heat irons...then I read how crappy they were.

So, I broke my $8 soldering iron from Radio Shack...doing something stupid...

Then, I go to WalMart and buy their $4 soldering iron...man what a turd it is!!  The tip doesn't even get that hot...I can actually TOUCH the pointed tip....only the side of the tip gets hot...

man, walmart is such crap.

So, I will have to go out and buy me a GOOD soldering iron...

ANYWAY, back to your cab...keep us posted because I'd like to see that thing going

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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #43 on: December 17, 2004, 10:26:04 am »
Then, I go to WalMart and buy their $4 soldering iron...man what a turd it is!!

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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #44 on: December 17, 2004, 12:46:31 pm »

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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #45 on: December 17, 2004, 12:51:12 pm »
Thanks, though I already have a vacuum pump and that iron doesn't look much different than mine.  I think I'm going to order this one:


http://mcm.newark.com/NewarkWebCommerce/mcm/en_US/endecaSearch/partDetail.jsp?SKU=21-6050&N=4

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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #46 on: December 30, 2004, 10:58:51 am »
Did a bit more soldering practice, had some luck with the braid.  Ordered a cap kit for the monitor... will tackle the AR board this weekend, most likely.  Still need to test the PS.

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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #47 on: December 30, 2004, 11:58:50 am »
I guess it's too late, but you should've ordered a new "big blue" at the same time... Doesn't hurt to have fresh caps in ALL parts of the machine.

~Ray B.
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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #48 on: December 30, 2004, 12:26:59 pm »
I figured that, but I'm trying to limit my outlay to items I will be able to work with before I'm 30.   ;)

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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #49 on: December 30, 2004, 12:47:28 pm »
Yeah but....... You're going about this a little backwards... You'll have your AR-II board re-built without know if the PS is putting out the correct voltage level. I hope you don't fry your nice new parts.  ;D


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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #50 on: December 30, 2004, 12:49:56 pm »
It's true...

Could someone answer this for me?

Question:  Can I test it after unplugging all of the components from the power supply?  As in, unplug the line after the fuse going to the panel, the marquee, the monitor, the board... I remember reading that you can't test a power supply that is not under load.  What is the exact method I should be using?  I picked up a multimeter and read the instructions, so I'm good with that... but as for some of the other things I'm a bit nervous.

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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #51 on: December 30, 2004, 01:51:12 pm »
Added a big blue cap to my BobRoberts order.   :angel:

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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #52 on: December 31, 2004, 10:19:36 am »
Bob cross shipped, so my cap and cap kit should be here 1/3... I'm working on this AR board now.  Maybe my soldering frustration was that the post I was trying to desolder was a bitchy one.  The other one came out not much sweat.  I have the bitchy one out now, hopefully I didn't kill the trace.

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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #53 on: December 31, 2004, 01:43:34 pm »
AR Rebuild is done.  All caps have been replaced.  I took a break after that first cap and did about two hours of practice desoldering on a modern, junky board.  I got much better at removing things, removing tiny diodes and LEDs.  After that, the AR caps were a piece of cake.

I didn't replace the other pieces in the rebuild kit... what I THINK is the voltage regultor, a diode, and some other little square thing I'm not sure of... not yet, anyway.

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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #54 on: December 31, 2004, 02:10:48 pm »
The RAM that the self test was toning as bad is replaced... socketed, this time.  Everything is plugged in now except the CP.  I'm going to power it up in a couple of minutes.

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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #55 on: December 31, 2004, 02:29:35 pm »
HA.  Oddness.  I saw some glow from the back of the monitor but nothing from the front.  I need to clean off all of the pieces anyway, so I took off the bezel and translucent overlay... the black side flaps of the overlay had fallen on the monitor!  No wonder I couldn't see ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---.  Let's see how it works now that I can actually see the monitor. 

Heh, this is the first time I've taken an arcade cab apart.

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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #56 on: December 31, 2004, 02:32:59 pm »
Well... not much from the monitor.  Some faint glow in the neck, nothing else.  No spot killer.  No game audio... just a hum.  No marquee light, yes to coin door lights.  I'm going to wait until the big blue cap comes in next week to try again...  in the meantime I can clean up the bezel, CP, etc...

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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #57 on: December 31, 2004, 04:29:46 pm »
Chad, did you check the voltages on the AR-II? (cuz you might have to adjust it with the potentiometer).

Next comment: I too was very tempted to only replace certain parts until I found that the board worked, but then I thought... "I paid for all these brand new parts, what is the point in not using them all?" Think about it, you can either have a bag of new parts sitting doing nothing, just waiting for another of the old parts to fail, or you can use the whole kit, and keep a bag of spare old parts just in case. (You know, you'd have a reliable "rebuilt board" rather than just a "repaired board". Just keep the old parts.)

Another thought: If the voltage regulators are bad, they could blow some of your new parts! So might as well replace them too.

~Ray B.

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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #58 on: December 31, 2004, 09:22:10 pm »
The main issue:  there are those three square parts that are vertical... and only one in the bag.  I'm not sure if they're all the same, and if not, which one that would be!  Plus, the diode, not sure where that would go either since there's only one.

I don't know how to check the voltages on the ARII...   :-[

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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #59 on: January 01, 2005, 11:32:15 am »
Quote
there are those three square parts that are vertical... and only one in the bag.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2005, 11:34:46 am by RayB »
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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #60 on: January 01, 2005, 12:14:44 pm »
You sure there's only 1? Are you referring to the black transistor with 3 legs, and it stands attached to that giant heat sink?

Yep, and there's only one in the bag.


Quote
The kit I got (for an -02 board) had 2. Yet the board itself has 5 of those things. The way to figure out which to replace, is that Bob's kit comes with a handy little sheet that tells you where! Bob labelled every part according to the position on the board. If you look on the board, for example, every capacitor is named, such as C1, C2, etc... Resistors are named R1, R2, and so forth. I forget what the transistors are named, I think it's Q1, Q2?? Anyways, just look on his sheet for that number, and then match it to the correct position on the board.

My board has three pf the square parts (I guess they're the transistors), not 5.  And my kit didn't come with a sheet of paper.



Quote
I don't know how to check the voltages on the ARII...

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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #61 on: January 01, 2005, 01:20:18 pm »
The AR board itself has rings for +5 and +10.3, but no 12.
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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #62 on: January 01, 2005, 04:00:17 pm »
From the 10.3:  11.64
From the 5.0:  5.1

Is the 11.64 acceptable?

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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #63 on: January 01, 2005, 10:22:55 pm »
I get the same kind of readings. Should be acceptable. It *IS* high, but what can you do... If you lower the voltage knob, you'll get too low on the +5...

Did you measure the +12 on the game board (assuming there is one, or is the +10 on the game board??)

Should be fine. How's the game board doing? Working or hollering?


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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #64 on: January 02, 2005, 12:56:52 am »
Hard to tell what the game board is doing.  I have only an audio hum and a faint glow in the neck (no spot killer).  I'm going to take a hard look at the edge connector tomorrow and test the leads on the PCB.  I just wanted to make sure the 10.3 value wasn't out of acceptable range before turning the sucker on for too long. 

Should I retin the edge contacts?  I haven't done that yet but have been shown how.

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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #65 on: January 03, 2005, 02:03:56 pm »
An audio hum probably means your AR-II board isn't quite 100% yet, or it could also mean the volume is set too high  ;D

I'm afraid I can't offer much more advice beyond this as my experience is only a couple baby steps ahead of yours. As for the edge connectors, I just clean them with a pink eraser.

~Ray
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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #66 on: January 03, 2005, 03:26:30 pm »
An audio hum probably means your AR-II board isn't quite 100% yet, or it could also mean the volume is set too high

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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #67 on: January 03, 2005, 05:23:04 pm »
Uh, if Asteroids Deluxe is anything like Asteroids, the hum is gonna be there for all of time.
Seen here
(mind you, this advice is all from my Asteroids knowledge)
I've read that if you connect a wire from the frame of the speaker to the ground on the ARII, then you can kill the buzz.
Meanwhile, if you don't coin up, and don't have the panel connected, you can't tell diddly shtuff except that the board is getting power (red led).  There are no attract mode noises, so you can't expect something to happen. Also, did you try adjusting the brightness and contrast on the vector?
Turning the brightness all the way up overrides the spot killer (DONT DO THIS FOR MORE THAN A FEW SECONDS!!!!!!!)  You can see if you are getting only veritical or only horizontal deflection.
Did you check the board for chips that seemed extremely hot? That means they are bad?
Have you check to make sure that you are getting the correct voltages on the board? If you have a substantailly lower at the board, then you have a harness problem, and you will most likely start to burn your harness contacts.

Also, hook the multimeter to the X and Y test points, make sure they are fluxing!!!
Have you read the Asteroids Repair Encyclopedia? Have you read it multiple times? Have you read it over there? Have you read it eating limes?

Seriously.
-------------------------------------
My games: Tapper, Asteroids, Cocktail-MAME, Tron, ROTJ, Tempest, Star Wars (not working)
My wants: Warlords Cocktail

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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #68 on: January 03, 2005, 09:26:42 pm »
Without redoing the edge connector or the contacts, yet, just took
these measurements from the PCB:


Audio: 11V
X: varied from -12mV to 200mV
Y: varied from 1.8V to 2.9V
Z: varied from 0.65V to 0.95V


How are those looking?


Where is the Asteroids Repair Encyclopedia?

EDIT:  Google is cool.  Found it.  Will read intently.  Didn't know this existed!

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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #69 on: January 03, 2005, 10:07:22 pm »
IT PLAYS!

I put the CP back on, coined it up... pressed the start button... it plays!
« Last Edit: January 03, 2005, 10:09:39 pm by ChadTower »

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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #70 on: January 04, 2005, 12:40:52 am »
You may also need to replace the starters. I always do when I change the bulb, since they are 50c a piece from Bob Roberts.  Never had one not start up after that.
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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #71 on: January 04, 2005, 12:52:03 am »
Concentrate on the monitor first. You don't know how stupid I felt when I rebuilt my trackballs FIRST, ordered new t-molding, replaced the lock, blah blah blah, only to find out the AR-II didn't work and not even knowing if the monitor worked.

 ;D
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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #72 on: January 04, 2005, 07:57:24 am »
Well it's pretty certain that the monitor doesn't work... that's my next job, rebuilding that.  Cap kit will be done this week, just have to build a decent discharge tool first. ;D

Good idea on the starters... I'll snag some of those at the local hardware store.

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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #73 on: January 04, 2005, 11:36:37 am »
It's great to hear your progress on the Asteroids Deluxe. I just spent the past week resurrecting a DK Jr. Had to re-wire the cp and controls, install a cap kit, replace the floresent fixture, and add new switches and locks to the coin doors. Now it plays like a champ and I am in the repainting process.

Can't wait to see pics of it when you are done.

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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #74 on: January 04, 2005, 12:23:28 pm »
Heh, no point in pics now, it looks the same but without bezel, marquee, back door, and the CP is open.   :)

I just picked up some alligator clips and 12G wire to make a discharge tool.  Is 12G thick enough?

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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #75 on: January 04, 2005, 01:13:39 pm »
From the Asteroids Repair Encyclopedia:

13. Problem: Game played but nothing on the screen except for a general glow that varied as the game was played blind, X and Y outputs were erratic

Fix: 7915CT voltage regulator at VR2 was bad

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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #76 on: January 04, 2005, 04:49:28 pm »
More research turns up proper ranges:

+10V to -10V on the X out or+7.5V to -7.5V on the Y

I'm hoping that retinning the edge contacts and cleaning the harness pins take care of that...

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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #77 on: January 05, 2005, 09:16:19 am »
Folks on RGVAC seem to think it's bad op amps in the XY section of the PCB.  Seeing as how I don't know what op amps are yet, I have some reading to do.  A quick RGVAC search on "op amp" seems to turn up 90% questions about vector games, so I'm assuming at this point it's something specific to vector PCBs... will keep updating as I turn up more.

Or am I updating too often?  I figured since I'd received so many PMs in support, maybe folks would be interested in following the research/learning curve as well.  LMK.

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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #78 on: January 05, 2005, 09:36:31 am »
Updates are great.  Gives a play-by-play repair log.

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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #79 on: January 05, 2005, 09:38:43 am »
Cool.  So far, googling RGVAC has turned up that the op amps are 8 pin chips, so that should make them easy to find down by the X/Y test leads.  Tempest uses a TL082, I guess, so that's another clue.  Seems that nonvectors also have op amps but they fail a lot less there.

I've also seen suggestions of bad DACs... a quick google turns that up as Digital to Analog Converter, which I figured anyway.

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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #80 on: January 05, 2005, 10:29:02 am »
Hrm, looks like Bob Roberts has the Op Amps and a nice looking VR kit full of common VRs.  I'll have to make ANOTHER order from him.  Heh.  At least he cross ships again, so I'm getting my stuff really quickly.  Sucks to pay $6 shipping every time for these tiny things though.

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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #81 on: January 05, 2005, 10:54:45 am »
Research update:

The DACs appear to be AM6012ADC, and are located at A/B11 and C/D11.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2005, 10:58:11 am by ChadTower »

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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #82 on: January 05, 2005, 11:26:55 am »
Hrm... Peale asked me how many pins are in the DAC, and I looked at the schematic to check.  I only see two of these DACs in the schematic, each halfway between the letters in the grid.  Maybe A/B11 means "11 at halfway between A and B", which means I only have two potential culprits.  At $11 each, that's quite a difference.

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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #83 on: January 05, 2005, 05:34:00 pm »
I think you are right, a/b11 is the chip in between A and B,  but are you sure that Bob's chips will work?  Did Bob tell you that?
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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #84 on: January 05, 2005, 05:40:57 pm »
Page 33 of the AD manual tells me that Bob's chips will work.

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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #85 on: January 06, 2005, 12:08:25 pm »
Okay, just to practice before I try and cap that vector monitor... I'm capping the WGk7000 series in my POW cabinet.  It needs it anyway and I'd rather mess that monitor up than the Electrohome.  Last night I attempted my first discharge, went well and uneventful, took the chassis off and it's on my desk now.  I'll be capping it this afternoon and then trying to put it back on.

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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #86 on: January 06, 2005, 01:59:15 pm »
Doing the WG cap kit now... this is going to take a while, lots of caps and the iron tip keeps gumming up.

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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #87 on: January 06, 2005, 10:15:25 pm »
Well, I ---fouled up beyond all recognition--- up the cap kit somehow... green is bad, though it was bad before.  Some things are better, the green is not.  I'm not going near the AD monitor until I can know that I can do a good cap kit.

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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #88 on: January 06, 2005, 11:27:49 pm »
Are the potentiometers good?
NO MORE!!

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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #89 on: January 07, 2005, 08:12:24 am »
Haven't checked those yet, those and the transistors there are next.  How do you test a potentiometer?

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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #90 on: January 10, 2005, 01:50:50 pm »
Okay, I've been backed off and regrouping a gameplan:

For the WG monitor's green issue:  On Randy Fromm's WG7000 troubleshooting flowchart, a green only issue points to these two transistors:  Q2 and Q202.  I found them on the schematic.  One is on the neckboard by the green potentiometers, the other is on the upper right corner of the chassis PCB.  I'm going to desolder both of those and test them with the DMM.  These are both cheap parts and can be had at Radio Shack.

For the AD board: Discussion with the folks at RGVAC leads me to the DAC and OP Amp in the X section of the video circuit.  That's the first and most likely place to check.  I have replacement chips on hand from Bob Roberts, but the DACs are $11 each so I don't want to blindly replace them.  I've also ordered some SIP sockets so I can desolder the questionable chips and solder in some quality sockets.  This will allow me to move them around in appropriate spots so I can observe voltages and figure out which, if only one, is actually bad, while replacing the minimum number of expensive chips.  I'm also going to check/clean/rebend if necessary the pins on the PCB edge harness, as well as retinning the edge contacts.  I'm actually going to do this first just in case a problem here is causing it to act like the board has problems.

For the AD monitor:  Once I think I have the game board in a better working state, I'm going to recap the monitor.  I have the cap kit in hand.

For the AD cab:  I have a replacement big blue PS cap and will be replacing this as well.

That's my plan going forward, should take me some time to get all of this done since I'm still pretty slow at this stuff.  Advice/criticisms/suggestions are welcomed.

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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #91 on: January 10, 2005, 04:45:51 pm »
Hi Chad,
Good Idea, don't get burned out.

Answer to this question: How do you test a potentiometer?  - Put a clip/test probe on the prong in the middle and one of the sides.  Take your ohm meter and set it to any range at first, then move the knob. The meter moves.  All the way to 0 to whatever.  But it should move.

If you aren't happy with your soldering, remember 1/2 of it is in the solder. Get some .032 60/40 solder and maybe even some .015 60/40.  You have the magnifiying glass.  Find a board and practice some more. Do a few chips before you go for the AD board.

I say don't worry about the "expensive" chips. Put in the sockets where they belong and just put them in, one at a time. You are in training. Once you get this done it's worth more working and as an assembly than it is dead like that.   Tacky but true - you can't make an omlete without breaking a few eggs.

Green on one of those monitors can mean that the tube is bad.  Remember the grid cleaning trick Randy has, you can try that too.

I might suggest that if you want to work on wiring harnesses that you buy bob's little tool he uses.  I have one of those and I can pull out any molex/wire from my harness in about  0.4 seconds and put it back unscathed.  It's a snap if you have the right tools.  It's what separates us from the animals.




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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #92 on: January 11, 2005, 08:14:31 am »
Yeah, I'm going to need a set of molex tools anyway, given that I have two pins here that are also in the queue to be fixed.

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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #93 on: January 11, 2005, 08:52:00 am »
I actually ended up getting my Molex extractor from Rat-Shack.  I think it was ~$7.00.  Works *very* well, but took some getting used to to make it work.

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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #94 on: January 12, 2005, 08:58:13 am »
Dammit.  I'm having trouble locating one of those monitor transistors locally and am sick and tired of paying shipping on tiny parts.

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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #95 on: January 12, 2005, 09:14:56 am »
What you need to do is actually *wait* to get parts.  It's hard, I know, to wait when you're making such good headway. 

My suggestion would be to make a list of what you need, each week, and place *one* order (if possible) at the end of the week.

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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #96 on: January 12, 2005, 10:26:53 am »
Yeah, the main issue here is that one problem usually uncovers the next... so it's not entirely possible to know that after the cap kit, I'm going to need to check the transistors.

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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #97 on: January 12, 2005, 10:58:07 am »
One thing I would do it reflow the solder on *all* solder pads.  I'm sure you read that thread in RGVAC regarding that.

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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #98 on: January 12, 2005, 10:59:34 am »
One thing I would do it reflow the solder on *all* solder pads.

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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #99 on: January 12, 2005, 11:34:01 am »
Heh...sorry, I read directly from the server.  I'll see if I can dig it up from Google.

Took me a while, but:

Groups.Google.Com Link
« Last Edit: January 12, 2005, 12:03:19 pm by Peale »

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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #100 on: January 12, 2005, 11:43:24 am »
Good stuff, I'll add solder reflow to my gameplan.  My list just keeps getting longer and longer.   ;)

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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #101 on: January 12, 2005, 08:10:10 pm »
Okay, I'm looking at the solder joints and... no.  There are too many that I can't tell whether or not they overlap.  I'm going to try replacing those two transistors first and see what that does before I go risking this.

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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #102 on: January 12, 2005, 08:32:42 pm »
Okay, I've been backed off and regrouping a gameplan:

For the WG monitor's green issue:

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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #103 on: January 12, 2005, 08:51:58 pm »
Testing Q2, test results iffy, I have several on hand, will replace.

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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #104 on: January 12, 2005, 09:21:20 pm »
DAMMIT... now it's dead.  Dead dead.  No tube glow, no picture.  Dead.

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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #105 on: January 12, 2005, 09:23:19 pm »
GRRR.  I am just making everything worse that I touch.  GOD I suck at this.  I should just pack it in.   >:(

If it's not a blown fuse, I have no idea what I did to this thing to kill it.  And I can't get at the fuse without dismantling the chassis AGAIN.

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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #106 on: January 12, 2005, 09:41:15 pm »
Okay I've gone upstairs, had a beer... I feel a bit better.  Still pissed, though.  Man I hope it's the fuse.

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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #107 on: January 13, 2005, 09:46:27 am »
The fuse is 1.5V, SB... I'll snag a few of those on the way home.

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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #108 on: January 15, 2005, 10:32:48 am »
Okay, the SIP sockets came in the mail.  I'm going to take some time on my practice boards and remove some ICs, maybe put the SIP sockets into those boards until I'm confident enough that I can do the AD board without risk.

I just wish I could figure out why I keep messing up my iron tips.

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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #109 on: January 15, 2005, 10:34:37 am »
Oh, and I have a lot of reading to do on Randy Fromm's technical site, as well as some videos to watch so that I can put a good test on that AD power supply.


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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #110 on: January 17, 2005, 09:58:57 pm »
I had planned on doing some PCB work tonight, but my work area is 50 degrees tonight at the most... it can wait.

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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #111 on: March 22, 2009, 09:03:06 am »
Update to long dormant project!

I had brought the boards and monitor to a local repair guy at the same time I brought my Tank II project over.  That was about a year ago.  He mostly sat on them until I saw him in December and reminded him that I do actually want them back at some point.  I stopped in yesterday and he had finished the monitor so I have that back.  He actually had some Asteroids boards on his bench and said he had been working on them off and on so mine should be done soon... though now he swears I brought him an Asteroids board and not an AD board.   :P 


Just read through this thread... wow I've come along way since then.   :laugh2:  Wish I had taken some pictures so I could be sure I DID give him an AD board.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2009, 09:04:51 am by ChadTower »

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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #112 on: March 31, 2009, 07:50:30 pm »
Wow, 4 years between posts and no progress???  Hope you get this going.  I recently picked up an AD and it's a great game.
My current collection:  Arkanoid^3, Asteroids Deluxe, Centipede, Donkey Kong w/DIIK, Frenzy w/Berzerk multi, Galaga, Galaxian, Gyruss, Mappy,  Missile Command, Multi-Williams, O'Boyles Arcade (Mame), Pac-man,  Sinistar, Star Wars, Tempest, War Gods

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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #113 on: April 04, 2009, 01:37:39 pm »

Monitor is back in but no board yet... still have to hunt that down.  Pics will come this weekend.

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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #114 on: April 05, 2009, 05:53:14 pm »
Ironically enough, I just recently picked up an AD cabinet to replace my damaged cabinet I've had in storage.
Had to rebuild the G05-802 monitor because it decided to fry on me after sitting in storage for a couple years when I put it in the new cabinet.

Vectors, ya either love em' or hate em'.  :cheers:

Do you have a game pcb at all or is it just dead ?
Not a technician . . . . just a DIY'er.

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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #115 on: April 05, 2009, 05:57:09 pm »

Had one... this one was pretty much untouched from the original op that owned it.  He put it in storage when it died and never touched it again.  I didn't have much for soldering or repair skills back then.  About a year ago I gave the board to a local repair guy to fix and he still has it - only now he swears I gave him a regular Asteroids board.  I need to push him on that and get it back.

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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #116 on: April 05, 2009, 06:16:54 pm »
I had to repair my original boardset when I got the first machine....nothing worked in it.
I used Randy Fromm's technique for testing TTL chips and found like ten suspects and after changing those it fired right up.
Not a technician . . . . just a DIY'er.

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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #117 on: April 05, 2009, 07:36:01 pm »
I had to repair my original boardset when I got the first machine....nothing worked in it.
I used Randy Fromm's technique for testing TTL chips and found like ten suspects and after changing those it fired right up.

With as much as I still have to learn my skills are so much more than they were when I was in that thread... maybe if I read through Randy's stuff now I'd actually get it.  I'll review it, thanks for the pointers.  Is that only in the book or would it be on what was his web page?  I did download his website before it went away.

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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #118 on: April 05, 2009, 09:03:24 pm »
I think there was a spot about it on his site...... but honestly don't recall where I got it from. I have a copy of his books, I might have stumbled across it in one of those.

But the jist of it is to use a DMM with the positive lead on ground and probing each chip looking for dead shorts. If a dead short is found, verify whether it has direct connection to ground somewhere/somehow. I f no direct connection to ground is found, consider it suspect.
Not a technician . . . . just a DIY'er.

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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #119 on: April 09, 2009, 06:38:46 pm »
I think there was a spot about it on his site...... but honestly don't recall where I got it from. I have a copy of his books, I might have stumbled across it in one of those.

But the jist of it is to use a DMM with the positive lead on ground and probing each chip looking for dead shorts. If a dead short is found, verify whether it has direct connection to ground somewhere/somehow. I f no direct connection to ground is found, consider it suspect.
Hah, I like these kind of tracing methods. They usually are much quicker than the scientific ways !

The board repairs I've done so far (all on the Centi) was by smelling an overheated component, then feeling what got overheated, turned out to be a transistor. From there, I followed the schematics.

With the audio issue I "fingered" the board around the audio amp chip. Sound really changed depending on where I held my finger. (Of course I had discharged myself prior to doing the fingering).

Another trick: If you have a completely frozen board, short +5V to the reset pin for a couple of seconds and see if the game starts.....

I would love to have Randy's book or stuff, is it still available ?

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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #120 on: April 10, 2009, 12:32:14 am »
(Of course I had discharged myself prior to doing the fingering).

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2tfEhubhXI[/youtube]

 :laugh2:

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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #121 on: April 10, 2009, 11:29:11 am »
 :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:

You can say what you want of Cameron but ---fudgesicle--- she looks hot there.....(pre- "gel" that is).

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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #122 on: November 01, 2009, 03:44:26 pm »

So I finally decided to either get this game working or get it out of my basement.  It was last left with the game board at the repair shop but the guy was claiming I gave him an Asteroids board.  I haven't talked to him in a while so I figured I'd chase that board later and get this moving.

Bought a working game board off Ebay.  The seller left out one little detail, though - it not working.  Plays blind but if you turn the brightness way up you see a flat line on the X axis.  That's just too damn much money for a nonworking board.

I get good voltage at the monitor input for X as expected.  The fact that you can turn up the brightness and see the pic shows a good Z.  I get nearly no AC on Y but I do get neg DC.  I'm only getting half of the Y off the board.  I have sent the seller an email but I'm betting nothing comes of it.

I'm having a serious problem lately with things that I buy actually showing up or when then do they are not as listed.   :banghead:


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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #123 on: November 01, 2009, 04:14:41 pm »
File a Paypal claim.

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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #124 on: November 01, 2009, 05:06:51 pm »
File a Paypal claim.

I sent him an email today.  If I don't get some type of response in a few days I'll do that.

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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #125 on: November 02, 2009, 04:01:16 pm »

Quote from: seller
im sorry it worked great we plugged it in my friends game, is it possible
something is bent from fedex we can do 2 things, i can have u ship back for
refund or ill but a claim in if you seed amage and u get refund and keep
board your call sorry this never ever happened before never sold something
and someone had a problem im so sorry your call let me know thanks


If dude is telling the truth... odds are it's cracked solder joints... since there is nothing physically damaged on this board.  If I touch them up, though, I have altered the board, and as a seller I sure wouldn't want an unknown buyer taking an iron to a board while pondering a refund.

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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #126 on: November 02, 2009, 09:08:44 pm »
Well, you seem to have gotten a kinder response than most give these days.
There's not much for solder joints to just be a common cracked joint on those though.

I didn't read back through the thread, but is this problem on a known working monitor ?
What was the other boardset doing? (the one in the shop)

My AD is not accessible at the moment, but I do have a boardset handy to look at if you question anything you see on that one.
(a spare working boardset no less)  ;D
Not a technician . . . . just a DIY'er.

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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #127 on: November 03, 2009, 08:50:13 am »

Thanks for the offer... may be moot for a bit now.  I popped a g05 rebuild kit into the monitor last night to be sure.  Went well, fired it up... BIZZAP.  Forgot to reattach the anode cap.  Shorted to the frame.

 :banghead:

After that no activity at all, spot killer on, just a dull glow in the tube when I turn the brightness up.

I did find one dead fb fuse.  Hopefully that's it and I didn't just kill every component connected to the frame.

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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #128 on: November 03, 2009, 10:31:09 am »
Ouch.... best to go back through and check all the transistors again now.
(if the new fuse blows immediately)
Not a technician . . . . just a DIY'er.

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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #129 on: November 03, 2009, 10:45:41 am »

Yeah.  That and the HV diode that causes you to need the resistor to discharge.  I assume arcing the anode to the frame is pretty much the same except this time you put amps behind it.

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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #130 on: November 04, 2009, 09:13:58 am »

Popped a new fuse in, got back to a spot.  Fuse did not blow.

Pulled out two of the new chassis transistors and they test good as far as I can tell.  Might be worth popping all four of the old ones back in and see if it goes back to how it was (a vertical line on X).

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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #131 on: November 04, 2009, 07:08:56 pm »

Popped the 4 old ones back in to see if I could get back to where I started... nothing.

Pulled deflection board.  F600 and F700 dead.  Time to trace backwards from those and see what I find.

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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #132 on: November 04, 2009, 07:20:35 pm »
  • R620 and R670 are both short- big cement resistors, one on each X and Y.
  • R613 and R713 are both short.
  • R618 and R718 are both short.
  • R615 and R715 are both short.
  • R619 and R719 are both short.

Note:  check values on these, they might be testing open because the intended value is below the continuity threshhold on the meter.

EDIT:  nevermind.  R620 and R720 test at 2 ohms which is the correct value.  Meter's spec on continuity is <=50 +/- 30 ohms.  I guess continuity isn't the best way to check low valued resistors.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2009, 07:52:07 pm by ChadTower »

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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #133 on: November 04, 2009, 08:49:39 pm »
You don't want to use a continuity check to check resistors, always Ohms check. 

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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #134 on: November 04, 2009, 11:06:53 pm »
You're gonna want to check ALL the small transistors as well.
Not a technician . . . . just a DIY'er.

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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #135 on: November 05, 2009, 02:36:21 am »
Quote from: seller
im sorry it worked great we plugged it in my friends game, is it possible
something is bent from fedex we can do 2 things, i can have u ship back for
refund or ill but a claim in if you seed amage and u get refund and keep
board your call sorry this never ever happened before never sold something
and someone had a problem im so sorry your call let me know thanks

Sounds like too many sorry's in there......

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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #136 on: November 05, 2009, 09:03:37 am »
You're gonna want to check ALL the small transistors as well.

Yeah, haven't posted it, but two of the heat sinked transistors tested out of range.  Just barely, like .3v drop, but that's out of range.  I still have to test the nonsinked transistors.

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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #137 on: November 05, 2009, 10:35:19 am »
Quote from: seller
im sorry it worked great we plugged it in my friends game, is it possible
something is bent from fedex we can do 2 things, i can have u ship back for
refund or ill but a claim in if you seed amage and u get refund and keep
board your call sorry this never ever happened before never sold something
and someone had a problem im so sorry your call let me know thanks

Sounds like too many sorry's in there......
He's probably just got Canadian genes.
NO MORE!!

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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #138 on: November 05, 2009, 11:24:57 am »
You're gonna want to check ALL the small transistors as well.

Yeah, haven't posted it, but two of the heat sinked transistors tested out of range.  Just barely, like .3v drop, but that's out of range.  I still have to test the nonsinked transistors.

In circuit you may find some reading fluctuations.
If in doubt, test out of circuit.
Generally you'll find a bad one either dead shorted or wide open. There have been some weird instances where one will check good but actually be bad, but I have not had that problem.
But in your case since it took a "zap"..... I'd look for any that are just plum dead.
 
Not a technician . . . . just a DIY'er.

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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #139 on: November 05, 2009, 12:08:12 pm »

Yeah, haven't taken them out yet, that's next.  I just ordered some replacements from Zanen along with the HV diode which may also be fried.  I'd rather have spares at this point than end up waiting a bunch of time on this one.  It was supposed to be quick - that's why I dropped the cash on a "working" board!

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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #140 on: November 21, 2009, 07:50:06 pm »

Sigh.  So I am sitting here putting in the replacement HV diode... damn thing is too long!  I have no idea how you're supposed to get this thing in properly.  It's a good inch or more longer than the original.  If you put it in line with the anode wire then there isn't enough slack to put it back properly into the HV cage.   :banghead: :banghead:


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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #141 on: November 21, 2009, 08:59:48 pm »
Put it in standing up.

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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #142 on: November 22, 2009, 11:36:37 am »
It's not PCB mounted.  It's in line with the anode wire in a socket.  I can get it done but it's a bit of a pain in the behind and I have to find something that can insulate around the new connections and stand up to the HV.  

Like this (this pic isn't mine):


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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #143 on: November 27, 2009, 02:50:06 pm »
Didn't like his method as shown above so I spliced in some extra wire between the transformer and the diode.  110v lamp cord and two layers of heat shrink on the joints.




Cleaned up power block + new big blue.


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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #144 on: November 14, 2010, 10:36:18 am »

Just remembered this thread... so for the sake of closure...





BTW, that diode fix shown above did not work.  The shrinkwrap isn't nearly enough insulation so it arcs visibly to the cage shield.  I put in a different HV cage and need to find a better insulating solution for that one.

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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #145 on: November 15, 2010, 09:24:44 am »
So was the problem just with the monitor, or did the game board you bought turn out to have issues as well?

Sucks you had such a hard time, but congrats you got it going!

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Re: Asteroids Deluxe resurrection
« Reply #146 on: November 17, 2010, 04:11:03 pm »
So was the problem just with the monitor, or did the game board you bought turn out to have issues as well?

Sucks you had such a hard time, but congrats you got it going!


Long story... :)

Without checking what's actually in this thread... I brought the original board to a local guy to be repaired to save myself the time.  He lost the board and claimed I gave him an Asteroids board.  I bought a second "working" board off ebay.  It had output problems.  I brought that board to a different, far more reputable, local repair guy.  This guy got it right.  In the mean time I bought 5 vector projects from a warehouse.  All of the g05s went into a pool and are getting repaired one by one.  One of those ended up in this game.

EDIT:  forgot to mention.  The issue on the second board was the op amp on the Y output.  I suspect the problem on the original board, now that I know so much more than I did then, was also an op amp.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2010, 04:18:06 pm by ChadTower »