Con-Tact Paper durability

[John IV [MameUI64]]

I'm wrapping my control panel in Con-Tact paper and don't forsee a plexi/lexan top.

What's the feeling on the long term durability of the paper for those who have done it and left the covering exposed?  Does the sun fade it, does it handle oil from your hands/ sweat etc?  Thanks -

[Sasquatch!]

I know I've read someone's site where they said that their con-tact paper was starting to get wear spots in it.  I would really strongly suggest plexi/lexan.

Kooky username, BTW.  I'm a "John IV" myself.

[SNAAAKE]

hehe..very funny if you just plan on contact paper..

ITS $HIT just by itself...make sure you go with lexan or plexi.

i suggest lexan for first time around..less hassle..you can hammer it and it wont break so drilling wont be a big deal.

hope i helped and also are you the one behind mame32?

just wanted to know since your site is hosted to classicgaming.com  

[John IV [MameUI64]]

Yep, one of three team members.

hope i helped and also are you the one behind mame32?

[John IV [MameUI64]]

Recieved this further input via email:

**
Anyhow, IMO Con-Tact is fine, but get a small roll of clear Con-Tact as well
to put over the top of any tactile surfaces as an overlay. That way you wear
out the clear layer instead! This is a much cheaper option than going with
plexi or lexan, both of which are also not that easy to cut. Also, if the
cleat layer becomes badly scuffed or scratched you can heat it a little with
a hair dryer to soften the adhesive, then remove it and put on a new clear
layer.

Another option is that if you are reasonable at tinkering with graphic apps
and have a decent colour printer, you can print up your own custom
graphics - Kelsey at www.oscar.com has some nice 'compass' style pics that
you place where the joysticks will go so they act as directionals. You can
obviously add your own colours, patterns etc to achieve the look you want
for your panel. This can result in a pretty stunning control panel!! Just
make sure you use TWO layers of clear Con-Tact if you go this way, so you
can remove and replace the top layer as mentioned above.

[SNAAAKE]

totally $hitty idea in my opinion.

just use lexan and you dont have to replace the overlay after couple of days.here is the deal..once you make the joytick then you dont wanna reinstall anything such as any overlay.do it only once and use lexan.also you dont wonder why everyone uses either plexi or lexan? its just too sad without plexi or lexan.i used to have a panel with just contact paper(first panel).man...it was the worst panel ever ,

contact paper keeps peeling off by itself for no reason.

[John IV [MameUI64]]

Regarding Lexan or Plexiglass bearing in mind I don't have a wide range of cutting tools, how do most folks cut out the holes.  Can one use the same bit, I bought the 1 1/8" spade style, and a 1 1/8" claw type to do the joystick / pushbutton holes.

Would you normally cut the Lexan/plexi individually or clamp it on the CP and do them both at the same time?

[rampy]

Hey John IV,

If you want it couldn't hurt to try contact paper for a dry run... and if it works for you great... if it doesn't you could re-visit the issue with lexan later...

a few alternatives... You could use contact cement and a vinyl overlay, which will last longer than contact paper....

I guess you could always laminate the top, but... eh....

Re: cutting lexan -> I believe the tricks involved are pilot holes, making sure to have a surface to drill through (i.e. a scrap piece of wood)...   I also read on this board to run the drill in revers (I assume for the claw type ones) so that it heats up and melts through the lexan....   please be advised I haven't gotten to the lexan part of my cp , so I don't have practical experience, yet... FWIW


Good luck


Rampy

[Sasquatch!]

Some people use a hole-boring drill bit, and like Rampy said, put the drill in reverse to "melt" through it.  If you have a bit with fine enough teeth, you could probably get away with drilling it in forward, but have the drill going fast, and drill through slooooowly.  I haven't done any of this myself.  This is just stuff that I've read around.

Also...

Kelsey at www.oscar.com

Might wanna check that link.  

[slug54]

If you do go with plex heres an alternative to drilling it.
I was not getting a warm fuzzy feeling about drilling my plexi-glass overlay because I had holes that were really close together and the potential for it cracking was scary.

So what I did was I clamped the plex to my C-panel which already had all the holes for the controls drilled and cut into it.

I used a wood burning tool with a long round tip which I had.
Just poke it thru the plex and using the matching hole in the wood panel as a guide just simply run it around the edge of the hole slowly, it will melt a perfect matching hole.
after it colols you will have to break off some crusty plastic around the hole, which comes off easily with your fingers. I was able to do all 20 holes plus the cut out for my track ball in about an hour and 20 minutes. This could also be done with a soldering iron. Just make sure you do it in a well ventalated area it does smell a bit. I almost did not do an overlay on mine  because it seemed like to much of a hassle,
but it really looks proffesional plus it makes adding CP art really simple.

                                        Slug54

[SNAAAKE]

okay i am finishing up my site for now..where i explain the whole plexi and lexan driling/cutting session.

but i can quick explain about how i did...

get a spade bit,get some finishing washers,some screws.

then drill small holes for the screws then screw the plexi on your control panel(clamps will be much harder to handle).

dont forget that you gotta use the FINISHING washer so the plexi dont crack.now put a scrap piece of wood under you panel and start drilling backward.it will only melt and wont crack plexi..GO SLOW....because spade bit is too sharp and will break if you force plexi too much...a pic or 2 might explain better.


first you screw the plexi/lexan on your panel then drill backward.
==========================================

this is how the cuts might look like.make sure you dont peel off the wrap that comes with plexi/lexan before you are done.
==========================================

as usual,result is great.i am just trying to help you out so you dont regreat like i did.making any panel without plexi/lexan.

[1UP]

I would second the plexi/lexan route.  Two reasons: 1) Most modern arcade machines use lexan overlays, so it just looks more "arcade-like!"  2) There is a reason WHY arcade machines use lexan--because even vinyl overlays wear thru with time.  I recently visited an arcade here in CA that has many classic games without protective overlays, and most of them have almost nothing but bare metal on the CPs, with a little bit of the original graphics remaining around the edges.  It was really sad to see an original Pac-Man and Galaga that had been so badly neglected.

Contact paper is meant mostly for lining shelves, where there is little handling or wear.  It's also not meant to be permanent, or they'd put a better adhesive on it.  My parents bought a lot of stuff secondhand when I was a kid, but they never fixed things up properly (or permanently).  So they used to put contact paper on wood and metal furniture and appliances where paint or laminate had scraped off.  It never lasted long.  That stuff likes to just curl up and looks like crap in very little time.  And if you've got kids around, forget about it!  Unless your surface is prepared PERFECTLY, you'll probably see lifting around the edges the next day, no joke.  A piece of lexan for the CP is a small investment in a machine that you're already spending a bit of money to put together.  Might as well do it right the first time.

BTW, get the lexan cut to size at the place you bought it, they should have the right equipment.  The melting idea should work, but I think you can just cut button holes with hole-saw bits, going slow, and using a drill press is probably best, if you have access to one.

[cdbrown]

What thickness is recommended for the plexi/lexan?  By putting plexi/lexan on top should I have the wood slightly thinner 5/8" instead of 3/4"?

Cheers
-cdbrown

[hyiu]

Hi All:

I agree with Snaaake... use lexan.... you can drill and cut it just like you're cutting wood.....

as for thickness.... I got the thinnest ones from a plastic store which is like .125 ?!?!... Home depot also has them at 0.09 ?!?!.... (home depot's is thinner.... )

I used contact paper with my prototype stick and also not happy with the result....

Now, all my sticks have a piece of lexan on top and artwork between wood and lexan.... very nice.... heee heee..... (like what Snaaake has....)

ps: well.... keep in mind.... I'm not trying to reproduce a classic machine... but just trying to make a cab/stick that I think will look nice.... so... if you want to make a cab that looks and feels exactly like the original, the older machines might not have lexan/plexi on top of the control panel...

good luck......              

[SNAAAKE]

What thickness is recommended for the plexi/lexan?  By putting plexi/lexan on top should I have the wood slightly thinner 5/8" instead of 3/4"?

Cheers
-cdbrown

well,

it really depends,if you are installing any 3/4 molding then you can use 3/4 wood but route the underneth where you will be installing the joystick so you get the right height.

otherwise 5/8 wood is perfect and get 1/8 plexi/lexan.
thats the perfect size.home depot has them.use a dremel or somethin to cut it.i used plexi glass cutter that cost $6.because you cant cut plexi with dremel.keep in mind that lexan is a lot easier to work with.

[u_rebelscum]

Other option I'm looking at and was wondering if anyone tried it: formica ^tm or other plastic-like laminate (Lowe's has formica, Home Depot has wilsonArt).  I like the texture a lot more than lexan/plexi, and know others put it on the sides of cabs.

How good would a laminate be for a control panel?  They say it's much more durable than vinyl, and I can by a 4 foot by 8 foot piece for the same price as a 2 x 2 foot lexan, and I'm thinking a bunch of changable control panels.

[Tiger-Heli]

Other option I'm looking at and was wondering if anyone tried it: formica ^tm or other plastic-like laminate (Lowe's has formica, Home Depot has wilsonArt).  I like the texture a lot more than lexan/plexi, and know others put it on the sides of cabs.

How good would a laminate be for a control panel?  They say it's much more durable than vinyl, and I can by a 4 foot by 8 foot piece for the same price as a 2 x 2 foot lexan, and I'm thinking a bunch of changable control panels.

Been done before and is what I plan to use on my panel.  You need at least a Dremel tool or preferably a router with a laminate bit to cut it out.

[rampy]

Other option I'm looking at and was wondering if anyone tried it: formica ^tm or other plastic-like laminate (Lowe's has formica, Home Depot has wilsonArt).  I like the texture a lot more than lexan/plexi, and know others put it on the sides of cabs.

How good would a laminate be for a control panel?  They say it's much more durable than vinyl, and I can by a 4 foot by 8 foot piece for the same price as a 2 x 2 foot lexan, and I'm thinking a bunch of changable control panels.

FWIW isn't this what hte commercial "desktop" controllers use?  i.e. hotrod and x-arcade?

rampy

[Tiger-Heli]

FWIW isn't this what hte commercial "desktop" controllers use?  i.e. hotrod and x-arcade?

rampy

Slikstik uses Formica.  No idea what X-arcade uses.  OzStick uses a sign vinyl overlay.  HotRod uses a polycarbonate overlay, which is probably similar to the OzStick material.

[SNAAAKE]

to be honest,
laminate is very very good.only downside is that it looks so plain.artwork and lexan is better choice.

no need router or dremel..

scroll up for the pic.the sides of my panel are laminate that look like wood.

all you gotta do is use contact cement and let it dry and cut with PLEXI GLASS cutter.it cost like $6 or maybe cheaper.

you can cut perfectly with plexi cutter.

[Tiger-Heli]

to be honest,
laminate is very very good.only downside is that it looks so plain.artwork and lexan is better choice.

no need router or dremel..

scroll up for the pic.the sides of my panel are laminate that look like wood.

all you gotta do is use contact cement and let it dry and cut with PLEXI GLASS cutter.it cost like $6 or maybe cheaper.

you can cut perfectly with plexi cutter.

Have any pics of the plexi-glass cutter???

[John IV [MameUI64]]

The WilsonArt also looks good for my purposes [no CP art] how would one cut the holes? Could the wood bits be reused or would it be necessary to use the plexi-cutter or some heavy duty exacto knife or something for that small work.  

[Tiger-Heli]

The WilsonArt also looks good for my purposes [no CP art] how would one cut the holes? Could the wood bits be reused or would it be necessary to use the plexi-cutter or some heavy duty exacto knife or something for that small work.  

I had a pretty dull spade bit and it had a tough time cutting the WilsonArt.  High Speed Steel bits work fine for smaller holes.  For button-holes, I plan to use the spade bit on the plywood first, glue the WilsonArt down, and then use a #115 dremel bit http://www.dremel.com/productdisplay/bit_template.asp?SKU=115&Color=009999 to enlarge the wilsonart hole to match the plywood.

I'm still trying to find out abot the plexi-cutter.  I don't think an exacto knife would work well.

[John IV [MameUI64]]

I just got back from Home Depot.  Decided to go w/ the Lexan and they carved it up to my 16"x8" dimensions.

If Snaaake is talking about the Plastic Laminate Scoring Cutter, it's about $6 and in the laminate tools section.  The guy I talked to said it would work on laminate, plexiglass etc.  Some sort of super duper blade. So I picked one up to have.  The Home Depot near me only had about 6 different WilsonArt styles unfortunately, none very appealing.

The Lexan I got though is the .093 variety, hope that works boring through it w/ the saw bits.

[rampy]

Cool! Let us know how you make out...

how much was the lexan sheet, btw?

rampy

[Tiger-Heli]

Cool! Let us know how you make out...

how much was the lexan sheet, btw?

rampy

I priced it yesterday too . . .

$9.88 for a 12"x24" sheet at the home depot by me.  Plexi was $2.96 for the same size and chrystalite (which is supposed to cut like lexan) was $7.88.

[John IV [MameUI64]]

$12.96 for an 18x24 sheet.  I wanted a spare just in case.

I just drilled through some of the .093 Lexan leftover w/out incident.  Both a spade bit and a saw bit worked on it, the saw bit I think was a bit better although I had to remove chunks of the lexan and its 2 layers of paper from the teeth.  Heh.

Snaaake: What size bit and screws did you use to attach the Lexan to your CP?

[kgriffin]

I have a curved metal control panel so I am using contact paper only. When it wears out, I will replace it. Its cheap and there are many styles to choose from so I can change the look of my cabinet dramatically in an hour.

P.S. I have been using my cabinet in it's temporary playable state for almost a month with no noticable wear to the contact paper. My cab wont have the traffic of an arcade so I imagine it will last a long time.

[SNAAAKE]

Snaaake: What size bit and screws did you use to attach the Lexan to your CP?

john,
i used  3/32 drill bit and #6   3/4 screws.make DOUBLE SURE that you are using finishing washer.even if you use bolts,you wont have any problem because you are using lexan.

but for plexi users. >> MUST USE FINISHING WASHER  

in case you didn't know,i am using plexi.NOT lexan.i am cheap damn it  
==========================================
tiger-heli,
here is a pic of the plexi cutter.

==========================================
kgriffin,

STOP the bull $hit  dude

not trying to start somethin but when i had a panel with just contact paper,it was coming off like the first day....

i dont know what kind of MAGIC you did to your paper man.

it stayed over a month.

[kgriffin]

If you were not trying to start something, then don't accuse me of lying.

First of all, I use my hands and not freddy kruger gloves to play on my CP. Also, I spend maybe 2-3 hours a week playing on my CP. Sometimes more when I have parties on weekends. Other than that, my cab is a fun distraction, neat piece of furniture for my game room / recording studio, and a great conversation piece...not the highlight of my life that I spend every waking hour beating on. So yes, my contact paper still looks BRAND NEW after a month.

I also own a custom finish G&L Bass that I gig'd with for 6 years that looks BRAND NEW because I took care of it.

If yours was coming off the first day, might I suggest you show a little restraint or buy better paper.

Like most things, if you take care of it, it will take care of you.

[1UP]

I did some Lexan cutting today, and found that a router works great!  The best thing about using a router is that you can follow templates with it.  So If you want to cut your Lexan to match your CP, you just clamp it underneath the CP and follow all the edges, holes and cutouts with the router!  I used the same bit I used to cut out my cab sides (using the finished side as a template for the second side).  A straight cutter bit with a bearing on top.  That puppy was definitely worth the money!  

[SNAAAKE]

Also, I spend maybe 2-3 hours a week playing on my CP.

OUCH ! ! !

now i think i know why

my panel is abused every single by me and friends and brohther  

sorry if i made you feel any bad but remember your friends usually dont care how you panel should look...they just wanna play and maybe abuse the machine.i am okay with people playin rough on my machine...thats why its here.

[John IV [MameUI64]]

I also did some Lexan cutting, clamped it under the CP and did the same thing you did except w/ a saw bit.  Worked like a charm.  Course I was only doing  pushbuttons, joystick and carriage bolts.

I did some Lexan cutting today

[rampy]

kgriffin,

STOP the bull $hit  dude

not trying to start somethin but when i had a panel with just contact paper,it was coming off like the first day....

i dont know what kind of MAGIC you did to your paper man.

it stayed over a month.

It's quite possible that a well prepared metal surface will hold contact paper better than a wood surface.... I'm sure there's some phsyics involved (i.e. wood being more porous or moleculerly open than metal... I guess I shouldn't have slept through chemistry 131)

Snaaaake do you talk like that in real life (tm), just wondering... ?

Rampy

[SNAAAKE]

Snaaaake do you talk like that in real life (tm), just wondering... ?



well,
i talk similer but i wasnt trying to give him hard time or anything.just THE warning about contact paper without lexan would be very painfull.

otherwise i am very friendly(did you see couple of last posts,i am helping out.some guy wanted a pic of glass cutter,i took a min to upload a pic) if it helps anyone.

see i am not all bad.

besides why whould anyone even get upset on what i said...normally i never ever get upset about anything.

However,not everyone's same i guess.but i dont get some people..lol...seriouslly....people feel bad so easy at times.

[rampy]

it's all good Snaaake...

I do see that you help... but I also find your posts painful to read/understand

I also see how sometimes your exuberance could rub people occasionally the wrong way... =)

FYI: Sometimes in text a smilie is not enough to take the sting outa the tone of a comment  *shrug* it's that whole, "don't type into a message board something you wouldn't say to that persons face..." type code of honor or something...

Sorry offtopic... as I said ealier its all good... the above comments aren't meant to offend, just be helpful...

If you take issue with these comments please PM me so that we don't drag this thread futher off topic.

Rampy

[Tiger-Heli]

otherwise i am very friendly(did you see couple of last posts,i am helping out.some guy wanted a pic of glass cutter,i took a min to upload a pic) if it helps anyone.

I meant to say thanks for that.  At least I know what to look for now.

see i am not all bad.

No one said you were.

besides why whould anyone even get upset on what i said...normally i never ever get upset about anything.

Let's see

STOP the bull $hit   dude

STOP (all caps) suggests anger,

bull $hit is a pretty derogatory term, especially with no first hand knowledge of the situation to say whether it's BS or not . . . (i.e., you don't KNOW that his panel peeled in a week and he's saying it lasted a month, but you're implying that this is the case . . .

<sarcasm>  Yeah, I guess you're right, why would anyone get upset? </sarcasm>

[kgriffin]

Hey SNAAAKE. I took no offense to your post, just didn't like the fact you implied (bull$hit) that I was lying, which I wasn't.

It's all good.

[SNAAAKE]

good for you and me...

i didnt realize i was calling you liar.

i am glad you didnt take offence.

[Keith O]

I personally don't care for the feel of plexi/lexan so I'm looking at going the contact paper route myself. For additional tack, I've tested spray glue (3M makes it I think) and it works quite well. I'm also considering contact cement.

[SNAAAKE]

again keith,

very very bad idea(contact paper)trust me...

if you hate lexan or plexi so much..you can go laminate.

laminate is pretty cool and super easy to cut and install.

look for counter top onces..they look very cool.

[SirPoonga]

I'm wrapping my control panel in Con-Tact paper and don't forsee a plexi/lexan top.

What's the feeling on the long term durability of the paper for those who have done it and left the covering exposed?  Does the sun fade it, does it handle oil from your hands/ sweat etc?  Thanks -

There is a nice benefit with plexi.  You can put graphics under it and change them if you need to.  I plan on putting graphics under my shelf and cp.

[kgriffin]

Hey Keith...is your CP metal? I think the reason mine is sticking so well is because my cp is metal. I applied the paper in my garage after leaving the contact paper there for a couple of days. It was about 100 degrees when I finally covered mine and the adhesive on the paper was VERY gooey. My first try didn't go so well and it took forever to pull off.

If you CP is wood, you will have a hard time getting it to adhere good because it is pourous. You might try sealing the wood first.

[Keith O]

Yeah, my CP is metal. It's 16 guage steel that is carriage bolted to the wood. If I go with lexan on top of the metal, my leaf switch buttons will have a hard time making contact so I'm trying to stay thin. My situation is that I do have a custom printed CP and would like to cover it with something clear that will protect it. I've done many experiments and I'm getting closer to finding an ideal solution. The last one I have yet to try is going to a sign shop and seeing if they have adhesive laminate that has a permanent bond (this was recomended from a fellow byoac member). This is probably the best solution. The next best thing would be to use cheapo clear contact paper and use a coat of spray glue to make it stick better. If I use a light enough coat, you won't be able to see the glue through the clear contact paper.

I'm not really anti plexi/lexan - it's just a personal preference and also a necessity in this case.