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Website redesign - Technologies used
saint:
This thread will discuss technologies used for the new web site. I have two goals:
1. A balance between speed and features
2. Compatibility between browsers (sticking to standards)
With the ever growing percentage of users with broadband, I no longer feel as obligated to design for 56k. I still like using features like small thumbnails for images with larger images viewed by clicking, but I would like to consider a more graphically oriented site where it makes sense and is helpful. The somewhat work in progress "eye candy" page found at http://www.arcadecontrols.com/Sections/EyeCandy/eyecandy_thumbs.shtml as compared to the less graphically intense version found at http://www.arcadecontrols.com/Sections/EyeCandy/eyecandy.shtml is a good example of what I mean. I do not want to be maintaining multiple version of a page though, so unless it's somewhat automated (i.e. we design one page, and a user chooses via a cookie or some such if they get graphics or not which is all handled automatically) then I prefer the graphically oriented page.
I do not want to use any technogies/techniques that are proprietary. No Internet Explorer specific designs for instance. I also would prefer not to use any client-side technologies, such as Java/Javascript. In my experience support is different between browsers and it tends to give unexpected results at times, including crashing. Not to mention, many people prefer to have java support turned off for security reasons. I would also prefer not to rely on plug-ins on the user's side, meaning no technologies like Macromedia Flash (although a Flash splash screen isn't out of the question,).
Technologies I would like to see considered (feel free to suggest others):
PHP
MySQL
CSS
XHTML
Perl?
Python?
I do not want to use:
ASP
Macromedia Flash (except as mentioned above)
Java
Javascript
----------
I'd like to use database backed pages where it makes sense. For instance, the downloads page would be a good candidate for a databased backed page. Changes could be made simply by editing the database (either via editing the databased directly or even better, a companion "edit" page). Fields would include "category", "home page", name", "description", etc.... The news page, examples page, and donations page are currently MySQL/PHP backed pages.
SirPoonga:
I wouldn't rule javascript out completely, though for this website it probably isn't needed. For the controls.dat is is very much needed. You don't have too many forms to fill out so it probably won't effect you anyway. Javascript is the only way to verify a form before the request is sent to the server. Also it is the only way to make a popup lookup list when filling out a form.
If you are going to be using php then perl isn't of much use. Unless you grabbed a cgi script from somewhere and there wasn't a php equivilant.
Your 56k comment is rather funny these days. You actually have a large bandwidth design. xHTML and CSS will fix that if done correctly :) Since I moved controls.dat to that my bandwidth and server space has greatly decreased.
As for being database driven, good idea. Your downloads page is perfect for this like you said. Check out http://fe.donkeyfly.com/controls/controls_dat.php
All the info about the files is stored in a database like file location, controls.dat version number, and date generated. That page is basically a dump of a database table to an xHTML table using CSS to control the look and feel.
You can do something simular for your artwork page too. you'd have a database table that contains artwork type (bezel, cd cover, etc), file location of preview pic, file location for download, file size, home page. In css you'd make classes for each type like #ARTWORK_BEZEL, #ARTWORK_CD_COVER, etc.. if you wanted to control the look and feel of each section. Otherwise if you wanted them to all look the same just make a #ARTWORK container class in CSS. It would be simulare to this controls.dat page
http://fe.donkeyfly.com/controls/gamesbycontrol.php
Though that page isn't CSSed yet. It's still using a table to do the look and feel. But I can make it look like that (and better) with CSS. The data is coming from the database though.
Now, I have found out IE and Mozilla handle CSS differently. It can take some patience to get something that looks simular on both browsers. Again, http://fe.donkeyfly.com/controls/controls.php as an example.
So, basically what I have found is just betweem xHTML output and CSS I have reduce my server space and bandwidth useage almost by 30-40 percent.
As for the graphically orientated version of a page vs not graphically orientated it would be easy to dump a variable to the cookie. If the variable is set to not show the pics. Of course this would all be done in php.
Now, most of your pages are usually a menu at top that links to the data below. That's great. This can be database driven, sortof. This is actually one of the things XML is suppose to be able to do but I haven't found a cross platform way of doing this clientside OR a fast php xml parser. Though the new PHP that came out recently is suppose to have a fast one. For now I would modularize it. Meaning this. Let's use this page as an example
http://www.arcadecontrols.com/arcade_cabinets.shtml
I;d put all the information of the Finding Cabinets in a findingcabinets.php file. Same for Building Cabinet - buildingcabinets.php. This way you can edit just individual sections easily. In your main php file for that page you'd just do an inlclude('findingcabinets.php'); where you would want to output the information.
Well, I have more to talk about but not right now.
Oh yeah, and ditch frames. They are horible. There are only a few instances where they are good. The major drawback of frames is bookmarking a site.
Jakobud:
Okay I suggest building the site using XHTML, CSS, PHP and mySql. That is the winning combination. I would also not use Java or Javascript or Flash. No Flash intro page please. I would end up skipping it everytime. People do not come to this website to be entertained. They come here to learn and build and have have fun after some work. Not to sit and stare at the pretty flash intro on the page.
I don't know how much you know about XHTML and CSS and PHP, but you should talk to KC over at Mameworld. He is a freakin pro at this stuff and he hails CSS all the time. He has given me great tips and some great resource links for learning a lot of it. CSS is awesome awesome stuff. Don't do any tables or frames. CSS makes it so you don't have to.
I would suggest not using very many images if any on the layout design. You can do some many cool things with CSS you won't need images to make it look good and clean. The only place that images need to exist is in the different subsections. There needs to images of joysticks, buttons, trackballs, etc. It doesn't do much good to talk about some great joystick when you don't really know what it even looks like. That's important! Oh this reminds me...
/
--->X /
.----:/ :--------.
: :
: CIRCUIT OPEN :
: :
`---------------------'
<--- electricity <---
No offense to whoever made this... but come on. LAME. I feel like I am surfin the local BBS on my 9600 baud modem back in 1993 when I look at this. I think we have some people around here who are skilled enough to draw a freakin circuit diagram in a real image. I think we can spare the 1k of bandwidth for it. Once again, no offense to whoever did it :)
Also, regarding what you were saying about the 'graphical eye candy page' vs. no graphical, I would also lean toward the graphical. It's not THAT much bandwidth nowadays. And no graphical pages are just difficult to find what you want. Like if you had a page that listed every single joystick and every detail about them and it was all just text... ugh it would be an eye sore finding what you want. The very LEAST you could do was have an image or two of each joystick in its respective section so its easier to find exactly what you want.
Overall saint, I think you are on the right track regarding the technology and mindset you are shooting for here!
AmericanDemon:
I think the tech discussed here is what I would personally use. I can not agree more with using more graphical designs.
Darkstalker:
--- Quote ---I would also prefer not to rely on plug-ins on the user's side, meaning no technologies like Macromedia Flash (although a Flash splash screen isn't out of the question,).
--- End quote ---
Skip the splash screen, since that's what most frequent users will do anyways. No sense wasting time on something people don't look at.
--- Quote ---Technologies I would like to see considered (feel free to suggest others):
PHP
MySQL
CSS
XHTML
Perl?
Python?
--- End quote ---
PHP and MySQL is a good path, and with the exception of a CSS that's probably all you'll need. I can tell you right now though, doing tables through CSS and having them look right in both IE and Mozilla is a PITA. IE likes to put spaces in where they don't belong. I don't see the website needing XHTML if you are using PHP since you can use Smarty and get your templating that way. Perl is fantasic if you plan on having server side ASCII text management features, but I don't see that. Skip Python, again there's not much point behind it for this site.
--- Quote ---I do not want to use:
ASP
Macromedia Flash (except as mentioned above)
Java
Javascript
--- End quote ---
I like Flash, but it is really designed for websites that don't have a lot of content and need to make up for that graphically. ASP is fine if you know it, it is server side just like PHP, so there's no real reason to avoid it unless you are steering away from Microsoft (Which I wouldn't blame anyone for). Java is too slow IMO unless you need a specific app. JavaScript however is different, and can be pretty usefull. It works well for form validation as an example. Instead of submitting the content to a CGI script or PHP page and having the server do all the crunching, you let the client do all the work on their end like SirPoonga said.
I personally use PHP/MySQL/CSS on my sites and wouldn't dream of anything else. The nice thing about PHP is the fact that you can tie in other sources. For example, my homepage news items come straight out of the phpBB forums I use. If you look at scl.warlorcentral.com you'll see what I'm talking about. That's my DAoC related website, but you can see how we use the combination of the forum import and XML parsing (Which sucks with PHP 4) to create the news page.
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