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Driving controls - one to rule them all?
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Minwah:

--- Quote from: Xiaou2 on July 27, 2004, 04:53:42 pm ---  Yeah - but try racing a friend that has equal skills and a spinner - and they will lap you 10 to 1.

  Supersprint without a spinner/360 wheel is a horrible idea.   Not only will is play horrible... it loses a lot of the fun factor.

--- End quote ---

I agree...but I was certainly surprised how well the game worked.  I wasn't as good as with a spinner (I'm not much good anyway), but I could get round the track pretty well.  I just expected it to be pretty horrific...
ferrarimanf355:

--- Quote from: Landstander on June 14, 2004, 03:07:34 pm ---Looking through KLOV I see that Ferrari F355 Challenge actually has a 6 position gear shifter (1-5 and reverse). One more thing to consider.....

--- End quote ---
Actually, F355 Challenge has 6 forward gears (no reverse).
Ridge Racer uses 6 forward gears and a clutch (Ridge Racer 2 and Rave Racer can use that setup as well, or you can use a up/down shifter).
u_rebelscum:

--- Quote from: Minwah on July 27, 2004, 04:28:38 pm ---My argument is that there seems to be little consistency.  
--- End quote ---

Yes, MameDev has tried to make it more consistent in the past, but it's usually up to the person who wrote the driver (and when the driver was first written, as different input types were added later).


--- Quote ---eg in some driving games you *do* have to hold the shifter button down (eg Chase HQ).
--- End quote ---

You mean the shifter physically popped back into low?  Or are you talking about the turbo button? ???

(Not my side of the arguement, but) If the shifter stayed in high when let go, and high meant a switch was held down, you aren't holding the button, the shifter is.  Others have stated that their stance is: if, in the original game, you could let go of the shifter and it stayed in that gear, then they think a toggle button emulates / simulates that the best that a normal PC can do without the "special" arcade hareware.  [shrug]  That's the stance some take, and if they write the driver, they have a lot of say. :-\

I say that's a hack, but tomato .. tomato.


--- Quote ---Also not terribly important, but sometimes steering wheels (pot based) are ad_stick and sometimes paddles - it would be nice if there were some guidelines for the driver authors to use.
--- End quote ---

I don't like that either.  Usually, a game that uses ad_stick up & down for gas & brake use ad_stick for the wheel.  And most games that use paddle also uses the pedal type inputs.

I like the Paddle + Pedals combo much better than ad_stick + ad_stick for racing games.  However, if the original game had the gas and brake sharing an axis, then, sad to say, but ad_stick is better for emulating that input than two pedals (which would mean two seperate axes).  I'd be happy with a paddle + ad_stick Y for those games, but many feel that if ad_stick Y is already being used, then why not use ad_stick X? :-\


--- Quote ---Also, I think the main reason it bugs me, is MAME's 'playing the games is a nice side effect' phrase.  If what you say is true (I'm sure it is), then this really contradicts MAME's apparent reason for existing.

Has anyone really pushed for input changes like this before?  I'm sure people have submitted changes like the PolePos one before, I guess they just get rejected...surely if we were to present proof of how the original worked they would have to change it??  Rhetorical question, I know the answer is no, but perhaps if enough of us bugged the MAME devs maybe they could be persuaded?  I mean I don't want to piss them off, but in this case IMHO they are just wrong!  :D

--- End quote ---

I've pushed, HC has pushed, others have pushed.  Best results (AFAIK) have occured when a writer "sees the light" and switches his driver's inputs.  IIRC, a long time ago Aaron Giles changed all his ad_stick X to paddle for all his drivers.  That was just as I was getting started with mame, so I don't know the reasons why the switch.  I use hoping all would follow, but most writers used one or more of the arguements listed above and didn't.
Minwah:

--- Quote from: u_rebelscum on July 29, 2004, 02:58:43 am ---You mean the shifter physically popped back into low?  Or are you talking about the turbo button? ???

--- End quote ---

No, sorry, I meant in MAME, you have to hold down a key (Shift by default I think) to stay in Lo, and release it for Hi.


--- Quote from: u_rebelscum on July 29, 2004, 02:58:43 am ---(Not my side of the arguement, but) If the shifter stayed in high when let go, and high meant a switch was held down, you aren't holding the button, the shifter is.  Others have stated that their stance is: if, in the original game, you could let go of the shifter and it stayed in that gear, then they think a toggle button emulates / simulates that the best that a normal PC can do without the "special" arcade hareware.  [shrug]  That's the stance some take, and if they write the driver, they have a lot of say. :-\

--- End quote ---

I guess it's fair enought the driver author has the last word.  Thing is, in a shifter there is a microswitch which is either closed or open, depending on the position of the shifter.  IMO MAME should treat an input or key as that microswitch.


--- Quote from: u_rebelscum on July 29, 2004, 02:58:43 am ---I say that's a hack, but tomato .. tomato.

--- End quote ---

Heh, yeah :)


--- Quote from: u_rebelscum on July 29, 2004, 02:58:43 am ---I don't like that either.  Usually, a game that uses ad_stick up & down for gas & brake use ad_stick for the wheel.  And most games that use paddle also uses the pedal type inputs.

I like the Paddle + Pedals combo much better than ad_stick + ad_stick for racing games.  However, if the original game had the gas and brake sharing an axis, then, sad to say, but ad_stick is better for emulating that input than two pedals (which would mean two seperate axes).  I'd be happy with a paddle + ad_stick Y for those games, but many feel that if ad_stick Y is already being used, then why not use ad_stick X? :-\

--- End quote ---

I agree with you.  Perhaps not the best way to go about it but I almost think they should just add some new input types, like 270wheel & 360wheel.  I mean dial is essentially a 1-axis version of trackball, paddle a 1 axis version of ad_stick.  If 270wheel existed then it could work exactly the same as paddle, but there would be no question as to what type the driver authors should use.


--- Quote from: u_rebelscum on July 29, 2004, 02:58:43 am ---I've pushed, HC has pushed, others have pushed.  Best results (AFAIK) have occured when a writer "sees the light" and switches his driver's inputs.  IIRC, a long time ago Aaron Giles changed all his ad_stick X to paddle for all his drivers.  That was just as I was getting started with mame, so I don't know the reasons why the switch.  I use hoping all would follow, but most writers used one or more of the arguements listed above and didn't.

--- End quote ---

Oh well, I guess some things you just have to accept  :-\
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