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Driving controls - one to rule them all?

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u_rebelscum:


--- Quote from: Minwah on July 20, 2004, 04:55:48 pm ---
--- Quote from: Rocky on July 20, 2004, 01:31:37 pm ---MAME changes the original code so you can simply press the switch and let go (so you don't have to hold a button to get high gear).  However when you actually use a shifter, it doesn't play right since the switch toggles between high and low.

--- End quote ---

This is one things which gets my goat a bit.  MAME is supposed to be about accuracy, yet the controls (IMO one of the, if not the most important part of a machine) are so often very in-accurately emulated or documented in MAME.

--- End quote ---

I agree with you, but I bet we (even with the others in BYOAC that agree with us) are a minority.  I've thought a lot about it and understand many of the reasons why the inputs are done the way they are.

First, imagine the posts if all the shifters were changed so you had to hold down the button.   :P

Inputs is one place mameDev has desided to let the limits of the PC determine how many of the inputs are emulated/simulated; another example,  limited number PC buttons ==> 12-rotaries (ikari joystick) simulated as a dial.  I mean, this one makes sense only because of the limits of the PC.

Then there are also a lot of grey areas:
Analog joystick/yoke games (example: Star Wars) playable with trackballs,
Analog position gun game playable with lightguns (and trackballs),
PC lightgun reload (becasue PC guns output differently than originals),
Analog pedals, joysticks, and trackballs playable with keyboard.

And the not-so-grey because it-was-done-in-bootlegs, and no-way-for-mame-to-tell-anyway:
Yoke games playable with flight sticks,
Cone buttons playable with normal buttons.

Plus don't forget the unemulatable (by mame) parts of inputs: tron's joystick handle shape, tempest's spinner speed and feel, starwars' yoke, spy hunter's steering wheel, etc.  These are very important to getting the original feel of the game, but out of mame's emulation power.  Not BYOAC's power, though. ;D


Personally, I wouldn't mind as much about the mis-simulated inputs as long as an original input's output can be used too, and it's noted in the source what was the original input.  But that takes hacks and messes up the code a bit more.

wpcmame:


--- Quote from: Minwah on June 14, 2004, 11:55:24 am ---Unless you make a pretty complicated DIY 1-steering-wheel-to-rule-them-all (as Tiger-Heli says Xiaou2 did some design work of) then you'll need 2 wheels, 1 360 and 1 270.  Alternatively you could use a 360deg wheel, and a yoke insead of a 270deg wheel, which would enable you to play a few more games - this is what I'm planning ;)

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Wouldn't it be possible to implement something in mame to convert from 270 to 360?

The more you turn the weel the quicker the pulses are sent. Wouldn't be like the original but it could make it possible to use only one wheel.

Has it been tried already?

Minwah:


--- Quote from: u_rebelscum on July 22, 2004, 02:51:47 pm ---I agree with you, but I bet we (even with the others in BYOAC that agree with us) are a minority.  I've thought a lot about it and understand many of the reasons why the inputs are done the way they are.

First, imagine the posts if all the shifters were changed so you had to hold down the button.   :P

--- End quote ---

Some good points there URebel, but...

My argument is that there seems to be little consistency.  eg in some driving games you *do* have to hold the shifter button down (eg Chase HQ).  Also not terribly important, but sometimes steering wheels (pot based) are ad_stick and sometimes paddles - it would be nice if there were some guidelines for the driver authors to use.

Also, I think the main reason it bugs me, is MAME's 'playing the games is a nice side effect' phrase.  If what you say is true (I'm sure it is), then this really contradicts MAME's apparent reason for existing.

Has anyone really pushed for input changes like this before?  I'm sure people have submitted changes like the PolePos one before, I guess they just get rejected...surely if we were to present proof of how the original worked they would have to change it??  Rhetorical question, I know the answer is no, but perhaps if enough of us bugged the MAME devs maybe they could be persuaded?  I mean I don't want to piss them off, but in this case IMHO they are just wrong!  :D

Minwah:


--- Quote from: wpcmame on July 27, 2004, 12:14:42 pm ---Wouldn't it be possible to implement something in mame to convert from 270 to 360?

The more you turn the weel the quicker the pulses are sent. Wouldn't be like the original but it could make it possible to use only one wheel.

Has it been tried already?

--- End quote ---

It is already in MAME - just map some pot-based analog inputs to P1_DIAL and P1_DIAL_EXT (in ctrlr files), or 'Dial' and 'Dial' in the TAB menu...

It works really quite well, I played a bit pf Super Sprint with my GameCube pad earlier :)

Xiaou2:


--- Quote from: Minwah on July 27, 2004, 04:31:21 pm ---
--- Quote from: wpcmame on July 27, 2004, 12:14:42 pm ---Wouldn't it be possible to implement something in mame to convert from 270 to 360?

The more you turn the weel the quicker the pulses are sent. Wouldn't be like the original but it could make it possible to use only one wheel.

Has it been tried already?

--- End quote ---

It is already in MAME - just map some pot-based analog inputs to P1_DIAL and P1_DIAL_EXT (in ctrlr files), or 'Dial' and 'Dial' in the TAB menu...

It works really quite well, I played a bit pf Super Sprint with my GameCube pad earlier :)

--- End quote ---

  Yeah - but try racing a friend that has equal skills and a spinner - and they will lap you 10 to 1.

  Supersprint without a spinner/360 wheel is a horrible idea.   Not only will is play horrible... it loses a lot of the fun factor.

  Spinners hardly take up any space... and you can play so many games with a spinner... that I wonder why anyone wouldnt add one to thier panel?   Heck, you can even place them right above a joystick, and still access them very well.



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