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Ipac Usb Vs, Ps/2
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RandyT:

--- Quote from: Tiger-Heli on June 15, 2004, 01:02:12 pm ---Yes and no - I basically started this with my comments about the QVS adapter I bought.  It is more complicated than the DIN to AT adapter, which basically changes some pin assignments to make the device work.  But my keyboard was not programmed to support USB and works fine with this.  It is actually a DIN keyboard, running through an AT adapter to the USB adapter to the USB port.  But a keyboard used as a keyboard has limited demands on it.  How it would work with a high-performance encoder is another issue.

--- End quote ---

Actually, I was responding directly to this post:

You are correct in that converters will tend to offer only the bare minimum of compatibility.  But I, and subsequently patrickl,  weren't initially referring to converters, rather adapters.  There are converters already for USB to serial, parallel, ethernet, PS/2, etc...  The level of compatibility these provide will depend greatly on how the programmer decided to implement them.  Ie. just as a PS/2 converter probably won't allow more than 6 keys pressed at a time, an serial converter intended for a modem might only support 56kb speeds even though RS-232 is capable of much higher communication rates.

In other words, converters usually provide a functional subset of the capabilities of the interface, whereas a simple mechanical adapter will give you all of them because there is no electronic translation involved.

RandyT
Tiger-Heli:

--- Quote from: RandyT on June 15, 2004, 03:12:32 pm ---Ie. just as a PS/2 converter probably won't allow more than 6 keys pressed at a time . . .

--- End quote ---
Now I need to go home and mash 6 keys on my keyboard running through the QVS converter and see if I get a BSOD  :o
patrickl:
Randy,

There is no need to be annoying on purpose either. If you don't want name calling then don't give me those annoying flame bait lines.

It's nice that your google search gave you some devices with PS/2 connectors, but they are hardly real world common applications. Apart from that PS/2 is hardly a must for these devices. In some cases they simply aren't even "PS/2" devices as such.

Your mention of a PS/2 GPS for instance really made me smile. It's an honest mistake I guess. If people use the wrong name for a connector you're bound to get confusions. Thing is, it's actually called a mini DIN (6) plug and because the PS/2 had those for it's keyboard connectors they are now often referred to as PS/2 connectors. However, it's physical charactereristics don't mean that any device with a "PS/2 connector" can be connected (and work) to a PS/2 port on a PC though.

You can try to win the "discussion" by claiming PS/2 will not die 100% (and your examples seem to confirm that you are going along those lines), but I'm talking about PS/2 being in a very small minority. It's demise is already happening and usually when it starts it can go really fast. It's a snowball effect. Some manufacturers drop it ... people stop buying the unsupported devices ... hence more manufacturers drop it ... before you know it virtually gone. I would not be surprised if you'd have to "shop around" in as little as 2 years to still find a new PC with a PS/2 port.

The main discussion is something similar. It's a case of "in general USB will work fine" against "I can think of an example where it will fail". I'll just stay clear of the "example" where I could run into trouble and will thus be fine. Just to be save I'll connect my I-PAC and trackball to different controllers.

Funny thing is that my trackballs, steering wheel, mice and keyboards all are USB already (some came with a plug to connect them to a PS/2 port though). I didn't even think about it, but when you buy something it almost automatically connects to USB. So, if USB does not work for gaming I'd sure be in heaps of trouble anyway.
RandyT:

--- Quote from: patrickl on June 15, 2004, 04:32:53 pm ---Randy,

There is no need to be annoying on purpose either. If you don't want name calling then don't give me those annoying flame bait lines.

--- End quote ---

Like the ones you rolled into this discussion with?   But I don't want to risk another name calling, so I'll stop now :)


--- Quote ---It's nice that your google search gave you some devices with PS/2 connectors, but they are hardly real world common applications. Apart from that PS/2 is hardly a must for these devices. In some cases they simply aren't even "PS/2" devices as such.

--- End quote ---

I personally own Joysticks, a GPS and a machine control interface, two of which use the PS/2 protocol for communication and one that uses the PS/2 port for power.  You know what they say about assumptions.  It's nice to know you used Google to verify my comments though.


--- Quote ---
Your mention of a PS/2 GPS for instance really made me smile. It's an honest mistake I guess. If people use the wrong name for a connector you're bound to get confusions. Thing is, it's actually called a mini DIN (6) plug and because the PS/2 had those for it's keyboard connectors they are now often referred to as PS/2 connectors. However, it's physical charactereristics don't mean that any device with a "PS/2 connector" can be connected (and work) to a PS/2 port on a PC though.


--- End quote ---

 :D :D :D

What exactly are you on about?  You are the one referring to the connectors as PS/2, not me.  Of course I know this.  I order these things by the hundreds, remember?  And just so you don't smile too hard, my GPS does indeed plug into the PS/2 KB port.


--- Quote ---You can try to win the "discussion" by claiming PS/2 will not die 100% (and your examples seem to confirm that you are going along those lines), but I'm talking about PS/2 being in a very small minority. It's demise is already happening and usually when it starts it can go really fast. It's a snowball effect. Some manufacturers drop it ... people stop buying the unsupported devices ... hence more manufacturers drop it ... before you know it virtually gone. I would not be surprised if you'd have to "shop around" in as little as 2 years to still find a new PC with a PS/2 port.

--- End quote ---

Unless you have a bigger antenna on your crystal ball, your predictions are about as accurate as flipping a quarter (Kroner?).  So far, I see little evidence of what you are saying, and the only "proof" offered up is a couple of oddball systems that manufacturers are testing the water with.  It's safe to say that we will never agree on this, but I will conceed that it is possible.  It's just not probable.


--- Quote ---The main discussion is something similar. It's a case of "in general USB will work fine" against "I can think of an example where it will fail". I'll just stay clear of the "example" where I could run into trouble and will thus be fine. Just to be save I'll connect my I-PAC and trackball to different controllers.

Funny thing is that my trackballs, steering wheel, mice and keyboards all are USB already (some came with a plug to connect them to a PS/2 port though). I didn't even think about it, but when you buy something it almost automatically connects to USB. So, if USB does not work for gaming I'd sure be in heaps of trouble anyway.

--- End quote ---

It doesn't surprise me that all of your stuff is USB.  I think I saw a USB butt-scratcher the other day :) (ok, it was a vibrator, but it might as well have been)

But at the moment, there still appears to be no shortage at all of non-USB devices, or MoBo's to run them on.   And until USB is brain-dead simple (which it isn't yet, by a long shot), and the MoBo manufacturers get their act together to get the BIOS support standardized and working well (which they haven't), the consumer will remain mute in providing overwhelming support to give up the past.

RandyT

patrickl:
The proof is that I saw with my own eyes that quite a large proportion, of the PC's in the stores I went to, did not have a PS/2 port already. The last time I noticed something similar, one year later I was virtually unable to buy something with the obsolete connector.

The fact that you are the only one in the world with a PS/2 joystick, a GPS that apparently will work on a PS/2 port (as opposed to one that just uses the same style connector, but is wired for an RS232 interface internally) and something that will control machines through a port that usually is only used for reading information, does not change anything. In fact, I have some other devices myself that use the PS/2 port as well. The point is that it's purpose for the vast majority of the buyers is connecting a keyboard and a mouse (and that all PS/2 devices can be made without using a PS/2 port just as well). So, the average buyer doesn't care at all if PS/2 will go and thus it will go since PC manufacturers and apparently even Microsoft want it to go. That IS already happening. I don' t need a crystal ball to predict the current time (well, I have one in each of my eye sockets I guess).
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