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Where to buy "KeyWiz"?
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Tiger-Heli:

--- Quote from: Dougmeister on June 01, 2004, 08:25:59 am ---They look good to you because I finally took your advice :)

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Fair enough!

--- Quote ---1) So if I only need the blue ones

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I said you would only need the red ones and few if any blue ones.

--- Quote --- (will verify w/ RandyT before I order), and each button needs 2 and each joystick need 8, I should only need 34 connectors, right?

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I counted 15 buttons and 2 joysticks, so 30+16=46 ???


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2) What buttons should I include?
I'm thinking about only putting 4 buttons per player... that will limit certain games, but I'm thinking only fighters (which I'm really not "into" anyway, w/ the possible exceptions of Virtua Fighter and Mortal Kombat... do they need 6 buttons?), do you think that will limit me unnecessarily?

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Well I would consider Mortal Kombat a fighter - It used 5 buttons, but I think later versions had a sixth "run" button.

Personally, I don't play fighters, and I ended up planning on 7 buttons per player (and dual pinball flippers) on the theory that I like the looks of the modified SF / HotRod SE layout, it will be handy for some PC and Nintendo 64 games (in Project 64), and I would rather have buttons I don't need than need buttons I don't have.

Again, though it comes down to - Are there games that you play (often) that only having 4 buttons per player would hamper you?
Dougmeister:
Man, I should not have given up caffeine... yeah, I meant "red'... doh.

And my math was messed up, too.  So if I go w/ 6 buttons per player, the count would be:

12 player buttons (2 x 6)
 2 player "start" buttons
 1 "coin" button

Thus, I would need 46 connectors, as you said.

Ok, almost done.

When I look at my bill, I start to wonder why I don't just buy a Hotrod for $100 and be done with it... what's the downside there?  They are strictly 8-way joysticks?
Tiger-Heli:

--- Quote from: Dougmeister on June 01, 2004, 08:49:32 am ---When I look at my bill, I start to wonder why I don't just buy a Hotrod for $100 and be done with it... what's the downside there?  They are strictly 8-way joysticks?

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I know the feeling . . .  although you're only $27 more than the HotRod, but you have to buy the wood also.

Downsides - First, like you said - HotRod uses Happ Supers, so you're back to popping off E-clips to get into 4-way mode and then they're not really good 4-way sticks.

Plus the encoder on the Hot Rod is not programmable and also probably not as good as a KeyWiz or I-PAC.  Won't matter much for MAME, but if you start looking at other Emulators, or PC Games . . .
dkraines:

--- Quote from: Tiger-Heli on May 27, 2004, 01:57:20 pm ---
but basically, a keyboard hack is limited to at most 20 (16 with some tricks, usually) non-ghosting inputs.  


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deleted. Oops, i had a math error

You can usually get more than 20.  Some keys are not pressed during gameplay.  Also, you have polar axis on a joysick.  Definately, don't use a matrix for a 4 person fighter.

btw, I just bought a Memorex at CompUSA for $6 (before a $6 rebate).  I have the matrix layout if anyone is interested.  I will e-mail the layout to the person that runs this site:  (http://www.mameworld.net/emuadvice/keyhack2.html).  I was surprised to see the size of the IC compared to the older keytronics I have used in the past.





Tiger-Heli:

--- Quote from: dkraines on June 01, 2004, 09:38:30 am ---Actually, you get a lot more than that without any ghosting problems.  It takes a rectangle of three (plus the ghosted fourth key) to create a ghost condition.  So on a 8 X 14 matrix, you could have 56 non ghosting inputs (8 * 14 / 2).  Of course a few of the hooks would be unusable because they are special keys (I.E. windows shutdown, sound controls...etc).  I guess, the only reason I think ghosting would be a problem is on a 4 player fighting game.  You may have to remap in mame, though I have never had to remap.

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I believe on an 8x14 matrix, you would have 14 non-ghosting inputs and then you could double up the joystick directions, so 18 inputs if using two joysticks (without ghosting/blocking etc.)

--- Quote ---I will e-mail to the person that runs this site.  (http://www.mameworld.net/emuadvice/keyhack2.html).  I was surprised to see the size of the IC compared to the older keytronics I have used in the past.

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That would be me.  I'd be glad to look at the matrix, but I see no way you get 56 inputs.
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