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| Want to build (or buy) a Tron stick... |
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| Xiaou2:
haha, : ) lol well, it wasnt quite that. The argument was to do with 3 panels not having enough depth for large controlls... which was true. You did overcome this with an ingenious shape mod... and to that i highly praise you for. I can surely apprecaite a great design... and im first in line to applaud it. (its not like me -vs- you in the worlds greatist design competition! :P ) I really do not need the attention nor have the ego that bruises so easily. i know im a good designer, but im willing to accept that some others are superior, or at least have thier shining moments. im open minded - open to change my opinions at the drop of a pin based on truthfull evidences... as im a seeker of highest truths. (in fact, im thinking of modding my design to be more like unclets recently...) as for the rest of the commentary... imop it is evassive at best. nice try though. though... i still think that you are grasping for some sorta ego boost rather than seeking a true answer at times. like defending a known defect just to look good... I surely understand your situation as far as re-design goes. its a real pain to try to rework things... the tron/competition stick is possible... tho imop may not be the best solution. some may disagee... but i do think those people are the younger crowd that didnt grow up playing the real thing - and dont appreciate the lengths of exacting details to duplicate the correct controls propperly. even i myself was against leaf joys and switches... for many years. I had trouble with a sms game called maze hunter - in which you had to move one square left, then 2 diagnols.. and jump right afterwords. With the gamepad it came with.. i couldnt do it but like once in 10 tries. but with the epix microswitch controller.. i got it every time perfectly. later though... i found a stand up robotron. i fell in love with how well it controlled. smooth round movment, quick, accurate, short throw, ease of travel, ... just perfect.. trying it in mame with competitons, as well as analog mini thumb sticks... neither controlled the game as smooth and i was crushed by the enemy. usually getting to like level 30 to 40 in the arcade... and getting to 15 at best with mame with the wrong controls. ive came full circle and really love leafs now. yeah... they are a pain to maintain.. but the feel they provide is worth the efforts. i couldnt play robotron or any other classic without them anymore... you did mention the trackball... well, its not that i was against other non arcade trackballs... rather, just against PC bases ones. The one you specified.. sounded like an arcade one... but then again, i havnt researched it to know for sure. i had thought your ball was a kidsball.. but i guess i was wrong on that... sorry. as for the tron stick... i myself am in a turmoil about it. im not sure i can float the 200$ it would take to aquire 2 of them with. also.. its been said that they are hard to get diagnols with. im not sure that any other dual stick game required superior accuracy tho... so maybe its not that important. id definitely want the light cycle part to be controllable well in tron... as i do really like that game. So i might need some sorta compromise or alternative. this might end up being either hard diagnols... or dual sets of different types of dual sticks... or some sorta plate system that could be devised by a 3rd party? anyway... think it over. the more thought that goes into a design... the more flawless it becomes. good luck. |
| 1UP:
--- Quote from: MinerAl on March 21, 2004, 11:56:33 pm ---Everyone! Play nice! Mr. Mineral will keep you after if you don't behave! :) --- End quote --- But he started it first! :-[ Heheh.... I promise to play nice now that I've let off a little steam. I don't react well to needless personal jabs. --- Quote ---Perhaps that's the answer... authentic Tron stick handles for both the hobbyists and the restorationists, and an inner molded sleeve that perfectly and solidly mates to the handles and the shaft, for those of us willing to risk the inauthenticity of creating an accursed half-breed Super/Tron. :) --- End quote --- My thoughts exactly. I am planning to make a prototype shaft that will have the necessary angle built into the neck. The shaft would be a 3/8" hollow steel tube, with the rotation restrictor pin, and a larger 1/2" or 5/8" tube connected to the top with bolts running crosswize thru both tubes, and properly spaced, threaded holes on the sides of the larger tube for connecting the grip. Basically like my Tron hack but with all steel instead of plastic and aluminum. This would be much easier to accomplish than building a new mold for the grips (especially when there is already someone making the grips). --- Quote ---A few issues to move this discussion forward constructively: 1) How far forward were the original Tron sticks angled? I think they were supposed to be tilted far enough forward so that they stuck straight up (perpendicular to the floor) even in a tilted CP. So is that 15 degrees? 10? If we re-mold the sticks to match 1cm or 3/8" shafts, should we make the mold match the forward tilt of the original? --- End quote --- The angle can probably be discerned from the Happ mounting view of the sticks from their site. 2) Tron sticks were imperfect 4-ways, in that they could be coaxed into the corners to go up-left etc. This was because in light cycles and tanks you didn't want diagonals, but in the other two you did (or something like that). This suggests to me that it would be nice to make our proposed Super/Tron sticks behave similarly. How can we accomplish this? --- Quote --- --- End quote --- I believe this was originally done with use of a rubber actuator, and a square restrictor. The restrictor made it act like a 4-way, but it could still be forced into the corners with a little pressure. This made it easier to play lightcycles with right angles, while allowing more maneuverability in the MCP cone level. I will be borrowing a Tron stick to test, and my main concern will be finding a way to do something similar with a Competition stick. --- Quote ---3) Wood or metal, or use the current "2 sleeve/spacers and 2 e-ring slots in the shaft" arrangement of the Supers to have both? --- End quote --- Should be easy enough to do the Happ method of notching the shafts. I personally use 3/8" drill depth guides to clamp to the shafts of my present Tron/supers rather than e-rings. Works just as well. When I get to the point of machining shafts for production, I will probably opt for slots. |
| froggerman:
Not wanting to jump into too deep a puddle, but a number of people are referring to the Super Joystick handle being 3/8". It is close but it isn't 3/8" it is 25/64". If you use a 3/8" handle it will be a little bit sloppy. I am sure that this is too much detail at this point but I just wanted to note it. I personally like the idea of more controls being made available. |
| MinerAl:
How about instead of a 3/8" tube, a 3/8" rod (as usual) with a machined lengthwise channel. I don't know about competitions, but supers have those sleve thinggies that would hide the channel. Then the strength of the shaft wouldn't be as in-question/compromised by using a thin metal tube. |
| 1UP:
--- Quote from: froggerman on March 22, 2004, 12:48:11 am ---Not wanting to jump into too deep a puddle, but a number of people are referring to the Super Joystick handle being 3/8". It is close but it isn't 3/8" it is 25/64". If you use a 3/8" handle it will be a little bit sloppy. I am sure that this is too much detail at this point but I just wanted to note it. I personally like the idea of more controls being made available. --- End quote --- Yeah, I even had it figured more like 13/32, but those are not readily available. I really dont' think anyone would notice it being like 1/64" off. It's the end objective that we're after! :) |
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