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1st Post - Getting Started - General Advice
PL1:
--- Quote from: PL1 on October 03, 2025, 01:11:04 am ---Beware of kids and drunk/non-tech-savvy friends. :scared
--- Quote from: tk007b on October 03, 2025, 05:18:01 am ---"Errrmmm .. .Ohh Kayyyy" ;-)
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You'll find a number of stories around here about BYOACers who had put many months into properly configuring their system and left menus accessible.
In some cases, it took months to find and fix changes made by kids/friends who had access to the system while the BYOACer's attention was somewhere else.
An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure -- better not to give Murphy's Law an opportunity IMHO.
--- Quote from: PL1 on October 03, 2025, 01:11:04 am ---
--- Quote from: tk007b on October 02, 2025, 07:37:55 pm ---Then there's the mouse buttons for the trackball .. should I use 3 separate buttons or map them to the existing arcade buttons
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Mouse buttons can allow them to accidently get into menus that you don't want them messing with.
- If you need mouse buttons during setup, plug in a mouse.
--- Quote from: tk007b on October 03, 2025, 05:18:01 am ---Thanks, I was thinking of having them for Missile Command, to the left of the TrackBall (when I get one) so I can shoot from all 3 bases easily.
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You can do that without using mouse buttons for those three Missile Command buttons. You can connect them in parallel with your regular player buttons.
For example, you can connect both the Player 1 Button 1 and Left Missile Command Base button to the Player 1 Button 1 input. Press either button and the encoder will output a "L. CTRL" keystroke.
--- Quote from: PL1 on October 03, 2025, 01:11:04 am ---Another thing that can cause trouble is having a button or combo for them accessing the MAME menu system either via the 2A input's default "Tab" keystroke or the shifted function triggered by "P1 Start" + "P1 Joy Right" -- you may want to protect your setup by reprogramming the output for the 2A input and for that shifted function to something else.
- If you need to access the MAME setup menu, plug in a keyboard.
--- Quote from: tk007b on October 03, 2025, 05:18:01 am ---Apologies, I don't know what you mean by 2A - Sorry if I'm being a bit thick!
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You mentioned that you were considering using the Ultimarc Ultimate I/O encoder.
Input "2A" is in the lower-center group of pins, second from the upper right.
- When ground is applied to that pin, the default encoder output is a "Tab" keystroke which pulls up the menu system in MAME.
- If you need to use that input, you can change the output keystroke using the WinIPAC software.
Scott
tk007b:
Apologies,
I didn't understand the meaning behind your warning. No one, and I mean no one, will come close to changing the settings on my set up when I do it. I can barely keep up with some of it myself (2A being a prime example) - So thanks, I get what you were trying to say originally (I thought you were making a joke)
There are, however, things I still am not clear on, which I need to understand before I starting putting this all together. For example:
1. Is the ULITIMATE I/O and possible a U-HID the right way to go .. They are so expensive (comparatively) but if things just work, then it's money well spent (I have created 2 spinners from rotary encoders, which work well and I am yet to add a trackball (undecided if I should use the expensive 3" Ultimarc one or get a cheapy 2" version for less than half of the price.
2. A great example of something I just cannot get my head around is Track & Field. When I press the RUN buttons (I've tried on MAME and RetroArch and with the keyboard and my XBox controller) they work but I cannot get anywhere near to the super speeds I used to get on the actual arcade machine. In fact, when I repeatidly press, just one of the run keys (doesn't matter which) I actually run faster. This makes no sense to me at all. Do you know what I am doing wrong or have configured incorrectly to cause this ???
3. I am connecting an awful lot of USB peripherals to my gaming pc (Lightguns x 2, rotary encoders/steering wheels/spinners (at least 2 maybe 3), foot pedals (gas pedals if you're American) , an additional joystick for a shifter (as it works better than the dedicated shifter I bought)
Ultimately, even though I've plunged into learning, there's still so much I need to figure out.
Thanks a lot for all of your support with this, it is very much appreciated :-)
Cheers
TK
tk007b:
RE: Track & Field, I found this whilst searching the forum
https://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,153099.msg1603641.html#msg1603641
Looks like it's a game issue rather than a controller / encoder issue. The arcade game allowed me to run at super sonic speeds, as I could press the run buttons really quickly but there must be another reason why it's stops registering fast button presses.
more homework to do !
:-)
Xiaou2:
A lot of Driving games.. can be played decently with a Digital Gas Pedal.. because the Acceleration isnt that Extreme...
HOWEVER...
There are certain amazing games that really NEED that higher precision throttle control:
- Spy Hunter
- Sega's Turbo
Im sure there may be others... but for these two games alone, Id always use an Analog Pedal Set.
The good thing about analog pedals.. is that emulators can treat them as both analog and digital. I believe you can
set the activation point, where they will toggle on / off.. as far as a Digital translation goes.
Also.. I could Never play a game like Turbo, or Spy Hunter... with a Button based Shifter. These games really need
a good 2-way shifter. And games like Race Drivin.. really needs the 6 position shifter. There are some affordable
6 position shifters on the market.. but I dont know how well they interact with emulators. Of course, Race Drivin has
other issues... in that I believe it needs a 900 degree wheel. That said.. a spinner "might" work, for steering the car.
"A great example of something I just cannot get my head around is Track & Field. When I press the RUN buttons (I've tried on MAME and RetroArch and with the keyboard and my XBox controller) they work but I cannot get anywhere near to the super speeds I used to get on the actual arcade machine. In fact, when I repeatidly press, just one of the run keys (doesn't matter which) I actually run faster. This makes no sense to me at all. Do you know what I am doing wrong or have configured incorrectly to cause this"
In the arcade.. they used Long-Travel Leaf-Switch buttons (pinball buttons). With many of these leaf button games... you have to press the button down about half way.. before the two metal contacts touch.. to activate the button. The extra travel helps keep you from accidentally pressing.. when you are just keeing your fingers on the buttons.
The leafs.. unlike Microswitches.. can be toggled on and off, from a mere papers thickness worth of movement / vibration. To activate a micro-switch, requires about 1 to 2mm worth of travel.. for each direction... AND... the microswitch has a very strong spring force that causes a lot of finger fatigue, when you have to use repeatedly fast button presses.
In order to get Maximum repeated speeds.. without any Fatigue from your fingers.. you want to do a technique called "FEATHERING".
You install a real long travel leaf switch (dont use short travel versions, and they will bottom-out, and slow things down)..
then, you press the button until it Activates. Once you activate it.. WITHOUT fully Pressing the button down to the bottom.. you can
lightly "Vibrate" your finger. This vibration will toggle the contacts on and off... at a lightning fast pace... that no other button can replicate.
This is ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY in a game like Halley's Comet... which expects and rewards the player with additional powerups, IF you can maintain a non-stop maximum repeated fire rate. The game punished you, if you ease up. Trying to play this game with a microswitch button.. will result in really extreme fatigue, within less than 3 minutes worth of gameplay.
In the case of Track and Field.. I believe you need to time your button presses, with the onscreen movement of the characters animations. That, or at minimum... need to have each button press.. be pressed alternatively, with the exact same timings apart. Meaning, equally on and off, in their alternative pressing and releasing (perfect timings).
Even without Feathering.. the Leaf buttons do not have a heavy spring resistance like Microswitches have... thus, it makes it much easier to repeatedly press them rapidly.. and at a much higher rate of repeatability.
Xiaou2:
Part 2: Dual Analog Steering
Ive read that some people have trouble controlling Pot based steering games.. when using a Spinner. I have not tried, as my spinner (and other controllers) were stolen.. before I ever got the chance.
IF that is the case... One possible solution, is to have a Spinner, and a Pot Dial, stacked vertically.. where they are at a diagonal from each other.
Like this:
[..O......]
[.....O...]
In this way... your hand can reach Either of these Controllers, without anything getting in the way.
Pot based steering mechanisms would be pretty easy to Hack. Especially if you hacked something like an RC car controller,
that already has a small diameter Dial.. thats also already "Center-Sprung" (springs to the center).
To go even further, might be a custom 3d printed version, where you could adjust the Springs from the top of the Control Panel...
to select from a Center Sprung position... into a Single Direction Sprung position (for Golf and Bat Swinging games,
where you can use the entire pot travel for the axis, rather than half of the axis).
There is yet another design potential that hasnt been created yet... where you could have a Spinner, that can function as
both an Optical device, AND a Center Sprung + Geared POT device. I came up the the concept a long time ago...
where you basically have a sliding and locking mechanism.. that connects a D-Shaped (d-ended) Spinner shaft, to a rear mounted
mechanism that has a Pot + Gearing + Physical Limiters on it.
My design was originally meant for a large diameter 360 degree wheel.. mounted for a sit-down style of setup. However,
no reason why it also couldnt be adapted to a vertically mounted spinner, instead.
Of course, these type of mechanism would require a decently deep control panel, to house it.
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