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Critique on Control Panel Design
madruk20:
Hey guys I'm in the process of finalizing designing a control panel for a 4P arcade pedestal but I'm fairly inexperienced. I've read what I hope is mostly good information but I'd like to get your guys opinion.
4 Player Pedestal:
-Players 1-2, 8 buttons (classics, 90s-2000s arcade games, steam and some console games) with servos for 4 and 8 way attached
-Players 3-4, 6 buttons (same as above, minus servos)
-1 Trackball between P1 and P2 (trackball games golden tee, rampart etc)
-2 Spinners push/pull (from Thundersticks for spinner + some driving games) placed above button 3 on Player 1 and 2. The idea being you can rest your arm between the joystick and buttons or the trackball and buttons and use the P1 or P2 buttons as needed instead of dedicated buttons near the spinners. In some cases you can probably just use the push/pull function and ignore the P1 and P2 buttons entirely.
-1 Stream deck for administrative buttons and player coin/start, as well as shortcuts to games.
-Joysticks all angled up and buttons placed to put P3 and P4 on either side of the panel
-2 Cup holder cuts which will more than likely just be for putting random stuff in instead of drinks
-All joysticks 360 Ultimarcs with restrictors/mapping as necessary for whatever game being played.
-Goldleaf RGB buttons for lighting specific buttons used in games, with black caps.
-Maybe light guns/star wars yoke later.
-We have kids and other arcade junky friends that come over so 3P and 4P WILL be used. I figure even if it gets to the point it doesn't I can commandeer P3 and P4 and maybe use them as flight sticks/ikari warrior setup or something. 2P's spinner is also conveniently close to 4P's joystick for a possible Tron setup.
A few questions:
1. With a stream deck all the player start/coin/exit/pause buttons etc seem redundant if you have one. Is there any reason to keep these buttons that I'm not seeing?
2. I like this particular angled pedestal base because it looks like if you want to sit down you can at least rest your feet on it, vs just having it straight. The only thing I don't like is it seems like might be a little top heavy or unstable (and also chipping the pedestal base with your feet). Does anyone have experience with this type of pedestal base?
3. Is it worth putting in pinball buttons for this type of pedestal? Or at the very least playable? From most designs it looks like the buttons are usually more far apart (30" about it looks like?) than they would be for a normal pinball machine. I'm going through a third party (GRS) to make the pedestal, so making them closer together probably wont be possible.
4. For the spinners I'm reading some have higher dpi than others (for example Thunderstick's push/pull spinner is something like 1000 dpi and Ultimarcs is 1200). Does this matter for these games? Thunderstick's push/pull spinner is the only one reasonably priced unless you go for a $130 one that is 1200 dpi from another site I was looking at).
Control Panel: https://imgur.com/a/aY1XLab
Angled Pedestal: https://imgur.com/a/QMu1Wlg
Thanks for any help!
javeryh:
Personally, I think you are trying to do way too much with one panel. What 4P games even use 6 buttons? What games use 2 spinners (driving games are not fun with spinners, IMO). Everyone starts out like this (myself included) - it's a rite of passage to try and build some behemoth setup just in case you want to play some obscure game with funky controls sometime in the future. You should ask yourself "what games do I want to play?" and design around that. If the answer is "all of them" or "as many as possible" then you should rethink it.
Most of us end up scrapping projects like this altogether or parting it out in a few years to build something more streamlined. I can't tell you the amount of questions I get from friends and family on how to work one of my single player cabinets that has 1 joystick and a couple of buttons. A 4P cabinet with all of those buttons and controls would make their heads explode.
Of course, there are some great 4P cabs around here so don't let me discourage you but I'd seriously play test your idea before committing to it. Make a mock-up out of scrap or something. Even cardboard works. :cheers:
PL1:
Glad to see that you kept P3 and P4 joysticks straight. ;D
Did you go through the design process in the FAQ?
https://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/FAQ#What_type_of_build_meets_my_needs.3F
It sounds like you may be trying to include too many games in step 2 resulting in too many controls in step 4 for an ergonomically comfortable layout.
- The spinners look like they would be uncomfortable. Have you made a cardboard mockup to test this?
- Are you sure that there's enough separation between the trackball and P1's buttons/P2's joystick? (footprint and ergonomics)
--- Quote from: madruk20 on August 05, 2024, 06:00:48 am ----2 Cup holder cuts which will more than likely just be for putting random stuff in instead of drinks
--- End quote ---
If you include them, they will probably end up being used for drinks.
If they are used for drinks, there is a chance that there will be spills.
Is it worth that risk?
--- Quote from: madruk20 on August 05, 2024, 06:00:48 am ----Goldleaf RGB buttons for lighting specific buttons used in games, with black caps.
--- End quote ---
Are you sure the juice is worth the squeeze on this?
RGB buttons add a lot of expense, wiring, and configuration compared to non-RGB buttons.
How many buttons will your LED controller handle?
--- Quote from: madruk20 on August 05, 2024, 06:00:48 am ---1. With a stream deck all the player start/coin/exit/pause buttons etc seem redundant if you have one. Is there any reason to keep these buttons that I'm not seeing?
--- End quote ---
The stream deck is not a large device so Coin and Start for the 4 players will be very close to Pause and Exit.
During vigorous multi-player gameplay jostling, it would be very easy to accidently fat-finger Exit.
:angry: :angry: :embarassed: :angry:
--- Quote from: madruk20 on August 05, 2024, 06:00:48 am ---3. Is it worth putting in pinball buttons for this type of pedestal? Or at the very least playable? From most designs it looks like the buttons are usually more far apart (30" about it looks like?) than they would be for a normal pinball machine. I'm going through a third party (GRS) to make the pedestal, so making them closer together probably wont be possible.
--- End quote ---
I would not recommend trying to put pinball buttons on this pedestal due to the width, the angled base box (buttons would have to be as far back as the P3/P4 joysticks), and the overhang of the control panel.
--- Quote from: madruk20 on August 05, 2024, 06:00:48 am ---4. For the spinners I'm reading some have higher dpi than others (for example Thunderstick's push/pull spinner is something like 1000 dpi and Ultimarcs is 1200). Does this matter for these games? Thunderstick's push/pull spinner is the only one reasonably priced unless you go for a $130 one that is 1200 dpi from another site I was looking at).
--- End quote ---
The ergonomics of your setup are a greater concern than the dpi.
Scott
madruk20:
--- Quote from: javeryh on August 05, 2024, 10:53:46 am ---Personally, I think you are trying to do way too much with one panel. What 4P games even use 6 buttons? What games use 2 spinners (driving games are not fun with spinners, IMO). Everyone starts out like this (myself included) - it's a rite of passage to try and build some behemoth setup just in case you want to play some obscure game with funky controls sometime in the future. You should ask yourself "what games do I want to play?" and design around that. If the answer is "all of them" or "as many as possible" then you should rethink it.
Most of us end up scrapping projects like this altogether or parting it out in a few years to build something more streamlined. I can't tell you the amount of questions I get from friends and family on how to work one of my single player cabinets that has 1 joystick and a couple of buttons. A 4P cabinet with all of those buttons and controls would make their heads explode.
Of course, there are some great 4P cabs around here so don't let me discourage you but I'd seriously play test your idea before committing to it. Make a mock-up out of scrap or something. Even cardboard works. :cheers:
--- End quote ---
I was thinking it would be fun to play games like Shredders Revenge and Castle Crashers 4P, and they all take 6 buttons. Actually looking at the list there seems like there would be a TON of good PC/Console games that would translate well to the arcade play style with 6 buttons. Is it really bad to play these games as P3 and P4 and thats why people don't like it? I get the adding too many things ruins the overall gameplay if the controls are awkward, but addng 2 more buttons doesn't seem like it would do that would it?
I was planning on using the marquee sides on the display and the lighted buttons to display control setups (at least for the games regularly used). If I'm bein honest most of the people that are going to use it are pretty hardcore gamers and wouldnt have a problem figuring out the controls in a couple minutes with or without direction.
madruk20:
--- Quote ---Did you go through the design process in the FAQ?
https://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/FAQ#What_type_of_build_meets_my_needs.3F
--- End quote ---
Uhhh may have glanced over it I'll read it more now!
--- Quote ---If you include them, they will probably end up being used for drinks.
If they are used for drinks, there is a chance that there will be spills.
Is it worth that risk?
--- End quote ---
Haha yea I'll probably regret it.
--- Quote ---Are you sure the juice is worth the squeeze on this?
RGB buttons add a lot of expense, wiring, and configuration compared to non-RGB buttons.
How many buttons will your LED controller handle?
--- End quote ---
Yeah I'm good with the extra wiring work/expense and like the look of the buttons. I've actually bought some parts already and a cheap player console to mess with this stuff so I've been able to wire and get everything to work. Right now I have one ultimarc ultimate IPAC and that handles 32 buttons, so if I forgo the pinball, player start, and coin buttons I could fit everything on one board I think.
--- Quote ---The stream deck is not a large device so Coin and Start for the 4 players will be very close to Pause and Exit.
--- End quote ---
There's 3 rows so you can space them out fairly well. I was thinking of even putting the deck up higher than I showed just in case there's some overzealous golden tee player or something. But I think you'd have to REALLY try to hit the particular exit button (to the point where it looks suspicious if you're losing the game lol). With my current setup on the stream deck the top row 4 buttons are P1-4 start, second row is coin, and then the third row has exit, pause, etc with exit being the last button on the right so plenty of space between the two or the ability to rearrange if there's a problem. The only thing I could see them fat fingering maybe is starting a different player or coin on accident.
--- Quote ---The ergonomics of your setup are a greater concern than the dpi.
--- End quote ---
Can you go into more detail about this? Do you mean how the player would control the spinners? From what I've been testing on my mockup it seems fairly comfortable how I want to play it. So the dpi doesn't make that much of a difference?
I was on the fence already about using the spinners as steering wheels to begin with because using a completely flat steering wheel looks awkward. But I really wanted to at least play 2P Warlords since my friends and I used to play it alot. The other spinner games like Tempest, Arkanoid a big bonus since I enjoyed those too.