Software Support > GroovyMAME
GM image pixelated
Kaz:
Hi everyone.
I always had the impression that the graphics in GM look too blocky, pixelated compared to the smoother image that I remember from the old arcade machines, something didn't look right, so last night I decided to do a test and I was able see that I was not wrong.
Below you can see tekken 3 under gm and under ps1, you can clearly see how gm looks more blocky and jaggied while ps1 is much smoother as if it had some type of aa filter, the image is also brighter.
https://ibb.co/fH20Gxh
https://ibb.co/m4v0QWs
FIRST link is Tekken 3 running on GM
SECOND one is ps1
I'm using a CRT arcade monitor with an ati 4350 connected VGA to scart rgb bypass trought the JAMMA pins, the ps1 uses an official sony RGB to Scart cable if it matters.
An extra fact is that when I change from d3d9 to open gl or gdi the image looks even a little more pixelated and has a small flicker... This problem is with all games, some more other less but still noticiable
Anyone experienced the same?
Help or some tip is appreciated
buttersoft:
Err, it might be that GM's range lines are only permitting switchres to generate a 240p mode? Tekken 2 and Tekken 3 were 480p in the arcade, from memory. Tekken 2 on PS1 was 240p (i think) but T3 was 480i (at least sometimes?).
Bring up the GM infoscreen on launch for Tekken 3 and check what mode is selected vs what MAME thinks is native. You may want to alter your range lines for 480i, if only in a tekken3.ini file.
Oh, and welcome to the forum :)
Kaz:
--- Quote from: buttersoft on November 30, 2023, 06:41:24 pm ---Err, it might be that GM's range lines are only permitting switchres to generate a 240p mode? Tekken 2 and Tekken 3 were 480p in the arcade, from memory. Tekken 2 on PS1 was 240p (i think) but T3 was 480i (at least sometimes?).
Bring up the GM infoscreen on launch for Tekken 3 and check what mode is selected vs what MAME thinks is native. You may want to alter your range lines for 480i, if only in a tekken3.ini file.
Oh, and welcome to the forum :)
--- End quote ---
Hey! thanks you
Managed to make It look closer just entering service mode and setting interleaced option, not 100% same picture but quite Closer, i think it maybe also because worse degradation Signal from ps1.
Still i notice some games especially 224p ones look more pixelated than their original counterpart, maybe its because im not using jpac to amp the RGB Signal to my arcade monitor? need to make some more test to be sure.
Zebidee:
I'm guessing that you are using Windows XP and an older Groovymame build, because you're using a HD4350 card ("legacy") and talking about d3d9? Getting the HD4XXX cards working properly under Win7 is not easy, if you've managed that then well done.
Later mame builds (which GM is based on) don't support XP, and 32bit platforms generally, and require 3D rendering capabilities beyond d3d9 (which is as far as XP goes with d3d).
--- Quote from: Kaz on November 30, 2023, 10:23:43 am ---I'm using a CRT arcade monitor with an ati 4350 connected VGA to scart rgb bypass trought the JAMMA pins, the ps1 uses an official sony RGB to Scart cable if it matters.
--- End quote ---
Most arcade monitors will require a video amp, otherwise the picture will be dim. Surprised you don't have one, but the pics look bright enough anyway.
I just booted GM_0.249 and see that Tekken 3 reports imperfect emulation of graphics. You won't see this if you have the "info" or "nag" screens switched off (and this I why I leave mine switched on). Guessing this hasn't changed yet in latest versions.
The infor/nag screens also report Tekken3 (arcade version) as being "640x480". Even though Butters advises us this was 480p (progressive) originally, it would be displayed, on your 15khz arcade monitor, in 640x480i (interlaced). This is the best it can do with that version of the game. Your PS1 probably displays Tekken3 at 720x480i (NTSC standard), because it was designed for 15khz NTSC TVs/displays, which means you'll get a few more horizontal pixels. However, you are comparing apples and oranges as the games are actually different (arcade vs PS1), having been designed for different platforms and display technologies.
--- Quote ---An extra fact is that when I change from d3d9 to open gl or gdi the image looks even a little more pixelated and has a small flicker... This problem is with all games, some more other less but still noticiable
Anyone experienced the same?
Help or some tip is appreciated
--- End quote ---
I think that, over time and different versions, the devs/pro users etc. are pretty consistent about recommending d3d before open_gl or gdi rendering, except in special cases or bug-testing. Search the site and see for yourself (you can start with the GM release threads pinned at top of Groovymame forum branch).
GM (and mame) have made many advancements, and various changes to video rendering from time-to-time, responding to developments and bugs encountered. To compare meaningfully, you will need to use the latest versions on appropriate platforms.
Zebidee:
--- Quote from: Kaz on December 01, 2023, 01:10:07 pm ---Hey! thanks you
Managed to make It look closer just entering service mode and setting interleaced option, not 100% same picture but quite Closer, i think it maybe also because worse degradation Signal from ps1.
Still i notice some games especially 224p ones look more pixelated than their original counterpart, maybe its because im nota using jpac to amp the RGB Signal to my arcade monitor, i need to make some more test to make sure.
--- End quote ---
"service mode" ... Is your monitor really a TV?
I noticed that you didn't have an amp and mentioned it earlier, but this won't affect pixelation - only brightness. Your brightness looks OK.
I don't think it is fair to compare arcade versions of games with PS1 versions. Even though they might have the same name, not the same.
I've spent time comparing GM games to original arcade PCB versions, and once you are setup properly, generally there is not much difference worth noting.
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