Main > Monitor/Video Forum
HDMI to Old CRT
abstract3000:
So after allot of reading, it simply appears there is no Viable option to Go from the VGA port to the S-video Port keeping the 15khz intact.
I looked over the Sharp CRT I have and since the case was tossed with the manual more than 20 years ago there is no label/Sticker or Printing that indicates the TV's actual Model Number that it was, and every number i get from the board and tube I throw in google and get nothing, so without a way to get ahold of the service manual and layout of the board, I don't intend to go back for an Electrical Engineering degree to reverse engineer the board to wire in RGB Scart plug, I think this is going much further into something I'm simply not that interested or dedicated to as I was 20 years ago when I built it. I am just tired of having a large cabinet sitting around doing nothing.
I decided for the time being going back and doing what I know works, So ordered an older motherboard that accepts the 16GB DDR3 I have sitting around with an i5 Quad Core Chip and PCIe 2.0 Slot on it, To go with an ATI Radeon HD 4890. This way I know the CRT Emudriver is compatible, The card has an Svideo Port to go directly to the CRT and I will just Use Windows 7 Pro with Hyperspin and the MAME set of 800 Games I procured and have everything working I had envisioned. I am not trying to emulate all sorts of systems, just the basic older MAME games, and the Specs on the build are more than adequate to Run.
I appreciate all the input and pointing of resources, as that initial Guide will come in to handy I'm sure when it comes down to passing the connection through, unfortunatley I will just have to put the Beelink aside and put another Caged PC Case below :(
buttersoft:
A J-rok will convert Arcade RGBS into S-video, i believe. There are other options too, but it's been too many years since i looked to remember models or even brand names.
A GPU using S-video out does not require crt_emudriver, but it's still a good option, as any official driver is going to be equally ancient and possibly unhappy on modern Windows.
TBH you would want to get a Radeon HD 5000 series card or newer (but still on the crt_emudriver compatibility lists) as the 4000/5000 divide is where newer drivers and EDID emulation kick in. That said, i understand you want an S-video port as a back, which is not unreasonable.
As a last attempt at using this TV for RGB, you might see if there are markings on the two or three largest computer chips inside the TV (on the chassis, which is the common term for the big PCB inside a TV). One of those chips should be the micom, or microcontroller for the on-screen-display (OSD). The other should be the chip you want, generically called the jungle chip, which is the video and scan controller and might show RGB inputs. Normally you get the TV's service manual, which in many cases leads you to googling the jungle chip anyway. If the set is from the late 80's onward, you will almost certainly be able to RGB mod it.
If you're really looking to get something running using the Beeline, you could always go something like one of these for S-video - https://shorturl.at/aEQV2 and then you go get any cheap HDMI-to-VGA converter if you need to do that. Whether that's going to be any better than a super-cheap HDMI-to-AV box IDK. You might ask on the CRT Collective or other facebook groups about recommendations for a cheap converter.
abstract3000:
So the Jrok Adapter I assume you are talking about is this: https://www.jrok.com/hardware/RGB.html
Then I would need something like this Cable to go from VGA to that Board https://www.ebay.com/itm/265683088475?hash=item3ddbf2345b:g:8HoAAOSwAiRid~-o&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA8HocyvfvM65WfiZLiMY4M1zbccvNQ2B8Cr6WX51NIXZ%2FkYNZyjSKCVus%2BwB%2FcNpBXe140WQDhyB%2BSjg7aRdNzcu3gbWyr1Ljfq7AE6f6iHIzlzuz8aNtQKf2Jv7%2FHR3s5pdRNRheiprBJ1hd2usY3j8SLzhoDA8i6pmV%2BvuuYf0jr%2BDvEFmNpiI%2Feae4PSzqKjEC1TaZQ%2F2n54T8czsT%2BLEMbzyqDM0EpIr4AnSeSQjfRQTX58S3VrKpFgRzFetYBGhvWrPzqOMDanA427u63bOlQ9Qat4X%2B00MBpFnhDaLYXuD%2Fna2TshfFSpISBUOU6Q%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR_agkJrQYg
And some sort of Plastic terminal to connect the wires in to plug over the pins? That was the only thing that seemed to look like it might work, everywhere else stated that I would need a Transcoder of sorts yet nobody in all the threads I have read was able to name a single one that was still being manufactured.
I dusted off the CRT some more and found a sticker with writing on it and what appears to be a manufacture date and what I think is the model Number 27RS100, I can Find the Manual for Sharp 27RS-100, I have 1 Single long Rectangular IC Chip (I didn't count pins) on the top Side It is: SHARP X3354CEN1 1JDH
on the bottom side of the PCB I found 2 Square IC Chips, Sony CXA20740 & IX3528CE.
I found someone who posted on Reddit about an RGB on a Sharp 27L-S100 (Not sure the difference between the R & the L) posted a Diagram with 2 IC Chip Number neither matched anything I saw on my board and no real pictures of the mod itself so have no clue if it would be the same or not.
Zebidee:
--- Quote from: abstract3000 on September 10, 2023, 05:52:45 pm ---I looked over the Sharp CRT I have and since the case was tossed with the manual more than 20 years ago there is no label/Sticker or Printing that indicates the TV's actual Model Number that it was, and every number i get from the board and tube I throw in google and get nothing, so without a way to get ahold of the service manual and layout of the board, I don't intend to go back for an Electrical Engineering degree to reverse engineer the board to wire in RGB Scart plug, I think this is going much further into something I'm simply not that interested or dedicated to as I was 20 years ago when I built it. I am just tired of having a large cabinet sitting around doing nothing.
--- End quote ---
Sharp, like every other TV manufacturer, used the same chassis (with variations) in many different models. There will almost certainly be a manual/schematic out there, you want to identify the chassis model number.
As an intermediate step, try to identify the jungle chip number, then search on that for a datasheet. Jungle chip is usually pretty easy to identify as is usually the largest, and will have video signal inputs and RGB outputs. Then finding the OSD chip should be easy. This, and a good look over the chassis to find where the inputs and outputs are, will give you most of the information you need.
In most cases there will be no need to solder anything directly to a tiny IC leg - there will be more convenient places to hack signals into, like a capacitor or resistor leg or similar on the input line.
Not wanting to disagree with Butters, but I've found that some later model sunset-era (~ late 1990s or 2000+) CRT TVs use large 64-pin jungles with no RGB inputs, and the OSD (on-screen display) functions fully integrated. You can't directly RGB mod these without going directly into the neckboard (but it can be done). I have a bunch of these TVs, but mostly I just component-mod them and then use a GreenAntz VGA RGB-component transcoder (BTW I design/make these, but they don't do svideo). However, I think that for the early 90's Sharp TVs, inputting RGB via the OSD would likely be the best way to go.
You don't need an EE degree for this stuff. I certainly don't. Just a decent brain and basic electronic knowledge. However, if still reluctant, a more practical option might be to find someone local who can do the RGB mod for you. Try the Facebook groups Butters mentioned.
--- Quote ---I decided for the time being going back and doing what I know works, So ordered an older motherboard that accepts the 16GB DDR3 I have sitting around with an i5 Quad Core Chip and PCIe 2.0 Slot on it, To go with an ATI Radeon HD 4890. This way I know the CRT Emudriver is compatible, The card has an Svideo Port to go directly to the CRT and I will just Use Windows 7 Pro with Hyperspin and the MAME set of 800 Games I procured and have everything working I had envisioned. I am not trying to emulate all sorts of systems, just the basic older MAME games, and the Specs on the build are more than adequate to Run.
--- End quote ---
This is really the best approach, new PC instead or trying to retrofit the Beeline, except I would go for a HD5000+ card as Butters has already suggested. I personally don't believe it is worth pursuing a card with s-video output - the quality will be poor and unsatisfactory. That is not a criticism of svideo, but rather then cards will just squish your video mode into a NTSC standard interlaced mode, probably 720x480i. It is OK for video content (like, showing video or powerpoint slideshow at an education/training workshop), but will be very mediocre for gaming. You would be better off with RGB output from the computer and a transcoder.
If you still want a card with s-video out option, then just buy another card to keep in reserve - they should be cheap enough. The "converter" Butters linked above will also give you svideo, but they are mediocre quality, much like I described above (I have one that is basically identical). Something like a JROK should be better (if your TV does NTSC - an Australian friend of mine recently told me that he tried to use a JROK/svideo with a PAL TV and it simply didn't work :dunno ).
EDIT: I was about to post but then saw your update, so added a little below.
You can make a VGA breakout cable from an old VGA cable.... or buy a new one, should not cost more than $10. I've even used old cables cut off back of old monitors.
Then buy yourself the female headers to plug into the JROK pretty easily:
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/194389582822?hash=item2d4285a3e6:g:zbgAAOSwql5hTZ34&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA0IU%2B0PWunJ58ET4r7NTOqar6Kw35Ibjb%2FDB8nHzJ0eXT5gXmuDvN7fvEf8OQAjwvvVguClXbIzPssmv3gO9upT5hR%2F0G%2FdBhfUZDIUvmBFesLsM4jo%2FpG%2FYDlDro2jfioSjIbXAoyBN8mkhKF%2FAeasxjJzMWMhamxmcrxyNKR8fgSNU9o6I8T0TjdL1mQdbmfO%2FLkn0KWMOdPGyuxm6FCyxbkT5mMBgOvz%2Fe%2F1b9lLAKMgchgbd5BadLe%2FedD9qgJ4%2BygSatloI0geGr8wAORlA%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR-SxvJvQYg
You can also find those headers available in kits with a bunch of different sizes. This may be a better option:
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/353414711625?hash=item5249288949:g:MkgAAOSwaRhgR0IU&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA0NygcXeXY6vjpna%2BIMVHGgpHZKLPGpe58Y%2BQQIMla4lSOQbbBQxW3%2FOW708sIuwUHaqgCODCGNiuhpjHm7v52JiJ%2BBSflA9aPUSRziGJ21M7K8o5qJBbwWfgTfBBhComh%2FfheBkgYicmqPX4Pn7WLy0oR0mXOoxzAkRhtVF7sPZoZy5aOjpnGwJMKP7c7eXQ8E3XPyYUtl8pezaRopn7cQXG5%2F0PNkplGIcYM9uPR66kzzUAU5la9a%2Fw7JXwHCJDJDN6WqPGKeoTECPHlF2LUnk%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR6qQqZvQYg
Search for "PCB header connector 6 pin 2.54", and also get yourself a reasonably priced crimping tool.
Zebidee:
I did some quick googling with the extra info you provided.
According to berrmal64 on this reddit thread, the Sharp X3354CE... jungle is really a rebadged Sanyo LA76843N
Click here is that datasheet.
Someone has already tried modding your model TV on the Shmups RGB mod thread. MarkOzlad (I know him and he knows his stuff) also confirms that is uses a rebadged Sanyo jungle.
You can find a manual/schematic here. It seems like it is just a "supplement", but it has the essential info. I can see the OSD RGB inputs and there is a 5-pin header that you can probably tap into.
I've already attached the jungle datasheet for your convenience, but the schematic was too large.