Tron stick for MAME and Sega Arcade games

[Cariba]

Hello All,
I'm looking to see if I can use a USB plug and play type flight-stick for mame games such as tron, and sega starwars trilogy (1994).  I currently have a 2 player arcade pedestal type of set up, so I am looking to see if I can get a stick controller that I can just put on top of my arcade control top surface temporally only when I am playign these games...(sometime these flight sticks have small suction cups on bottom),

Not sure If just any modern flight/tron stick/joystick that first would work with mame?  do I have to look for something in particular?  anyone do anything like this already?  I am also considering using two of these flight sticks to play Vindicators properly.

I don't mid if I have to hard wire them into my system's IPAC board as well...(but would love USB instead - as I currently have X box controllers set up on USB)

Also, interested to see if I can also do something similar & 'temporary' for adding (plug and play) rotating joysticks needed for Ikari warriors

Thanks in advance all!

[PL1]

I'm looking to see if I can use a USB plug and play type flight-stick for mame games such as tron, and sega starwars trilogy (1994).

Even though both are triggersticks, those are two VERY different types of stick.
- TRON uses an 8-way triggerstick with a special restrictor that makes it hard to hit diagonals.
- SWT uses an analog triggerstick.

As always, make a list of the games you want to play and figure out what controls you need for them.
http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/FAQ#What_type_of_build_meets_my_needs.3F

If Vindicators and CyberSled are both on your list, you'll need both 8-ways and analogs.

I currently have a 2 player arcade pedestal type of set up, so I am looking to see if I can get a stick controller that I can just put on top of my arcade control top surface temporally only when I am playign these games...(sometime these flight sticks have small suction cups on bottom),

The suction cup mount option may not work well enough if you get into some vigorous gameplay.   

Not sure If just any modern flight/tron stick/joystick that first would work with mame?  do I have to look for something in particular?

MAME can handle a wide variety of input types so there shouldn't be any problems.

I am also considering using two of these flight sticks to play Vindicators properly.

Vindicators uses two 2-way triggersticks (8-way triggersticks will work equally well) and 4 buttons.  Two triggerticks, each with a trigger and at least one thumb button will cover that.   

You may want to consider building these sticks into a USB pedestal that you put in front of your main 2-player pedestal.
- This approach is much larger than a set-a-box-on-top-of-the-CP approach, but the height/ergonomics and stability should more than make up for that.

I don't mid if I have to hard wire them into my system's IPAC board as well...(but would love USB instead - as I currently have X box controllers set up on USB)

You can wire 8-way triggersticks into the IPac., but you can't do that with analog triggersticks.

With either type, a separate USB encoder is a viable option.

Also, interested to see if I can also do something similar & 'temporary' for adding (plug and play) rotating joysticks needed for Ikari warriors

For mechanical rotary (clicky) joysticks like the LS-30 or Happ mechanical rotary, there are encoders that can handle both the 8-way joystick and the 12-position rotary switch.
- Ultimarc's U-HID can decode the rotary switch by using 4 diodes and specfic wiring connections to output a quadrature waveform like a spinner/trackball for the U-HID.  See this PDF for details.
- Another encoder option is using the KADE miniArcade 2.0 firmware on an Arduino that converts a change of the rotary switch position into a keystroke like "[" showing that you turned the switch left or a "]" for right.
NOTE: A Pro Micro will only support one rotary joystick (purple "Rot 2B" 32u4 pin 32  is not available on this board), but that pin is available on the Micro, Leonardo, and Itsy-Bitsy boards which support two rotary sticks. (click to see larger)

   

One problem you might run into is finding this type of stick since Happ and SNK no longer make them.
- The only mechanical rotary joystick currently being manufactured is the 12-way mod here for the Ultimarc Servostik or J-Stick.
- There are sticks like the Happ Super, Happ Competition, LS-32, LS-38, or Zippyy that you can mod to add a rotary switch by either adjusting the height of the default handle/shaft (possible to do with the Super or Comp) or changing out the shaft (these sticks all have a 10mm shaft) and adding a 3d printed handle like this LS-30.

Another concern with mechanical rotary sticks is the amount of clearance (~4.5" IIRC) needed under the panel for the rotary switch.
- Once again, you may want to consider building these sticks into a USB pedestal that you put in front of your main 2-player pedestal.

Here's a list of the approximately two dozen games that used this type of stick.
- Most use two player buttons. (i.e. Fire and Grenade)  Ikari III - The Rescue is the only one that uses three player buttons.
- Scroll down to see the MAME settings you must change to get the rotary function to respond correctly and reliably.
http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/Joysticks#Mechanical_Rotary_Joystick_Games_.28LS-30.2C_Happ_Mechanical_Rotary_Sticks.29


Scott

[Cariba]

Thank you for all that (organized) info, I'm going to read over a few more times.

I too realized that the best route is to make a new and separate pedestal TOP/control that has the (based on your info) both sticks (analog and 8way etc) - as my pedestal has the option to remove the top part to play somewhere else.
In fact I'd also like to make another (third) control top with steering wheel, shifter etc, (and add removable pedals at bottom) for racing games - but this is for another time in future.

Ill use your info first to start figuring out the hardware I actually need- I may come back wit the list of games to verify the type of trigger stick needed...

BTW, what kind of joystick would I need for afterburner?

I play the SWT game with my trackball, but its hard to aim efficiently using that (I was very good with the original arcade version/triggers stick, that I used to have a crowd of people watching me - what a rush that was) - do you happen to know if I can increase the trackball's sensitivity to be able to move the crosshairs faster?

Thanks again in advance for the insight

[PL1]

I may come back wit the list of games to verify the type of trigger stick needed...

BTW, what kind of joystick would I need for afterburner?

There are several ways to figure out what controls a game uses.

The easiest way is to look in the MAME "Input (this game)" menu.

If that doesn't tell you what you need to know or you're using a different emulator like Supermodel, you can check the original game manual/schematics to see if it used switches (8-way stick) or potentiometers. (analog stick)
- You can find lots of info, parts breakdowns, and schematics over at KLOV's International Arcade Meuseum https://www.arcade-museum.com/ by putting the game name into the "Search Games & Machines" field at the top of the page.

For example, the After Burner listing says

Controls:

    Throttle Lever
    Joystick: Analog with trigger and thumb button [Gun|Missile]

You can double check that by scrolling down the listing to the 39 page Owner's Manual here.
- On page 17, item# 102 "VOL CONT 5KOHM" is the analog stick potentiometers. (2 ea.)
- On page 18, item# 101 "VOL CONT B-5KOHM" is the throttle potentiometer.
- On page 25, right side, 1/2 way down the page, you can find potentiometers labeled "U/D" and "L/R" confirming that it is an analog stick.   

I play the SWT game with my trackball, but its hard to aim efficiently using that (I was very good with the original arcade version/triggers stick, that I used to have a crowd of people watching me - what a rush that was) - do you happen to know if I can increase the trackball's sensitivity to be able to move the crosshairs faster?

Which emulator are you using for SWT?
- If you're running it in MAME, you can increase the sensitivity of the trackball in the "Analog Controls" menu.
- If you're running it in Supermodel, I'm not sure off the top of my head.   


Scott