Vector-gasm... Cosmic Chasm!

[bobbyb13]

I have been trying to assemble the parts to build a vector machine for a while now.

In the midst of some turmoil, there are actually a lot of cool things going on with vector action in the hobby recently as a result of a few guys who are obviously brilliant but also helpful and generous enough with their time to even help a jackass like myself.

In spite of that, it is remarkable that the written documentation about being able to do any of this stuff (and some fairly critical details of it all) absolutely SUCKS.

If I can succeed in actually getting this thing functional (and I feel like I am nearly there) it will be fun to be able to backtrack through my build and turn this into a fairly instructive thread in how to build yourself a legit vector machine without having ANY original components to begin with.

Kind of the pivotal thing to get this rolling (apart from actually learning some about XY monitors and amassing some parts) was ZapCon 8.2 when I got to play a REAL Cosmic Chasm.
I'll never forget the first time I played Tempest and getting to play CC (which I was entirely unfamiliar with except for knowing the name) gave me that same 'love this!' sensation that vector games gave me way back when.

Big props to Brian at classicarcadecabinets.com on this project.
I emailed him about the accuracy of the plans he has listed there (which consequently are almost identical to Dragon's Lair cabs too it appears) since I was considering having this one CNC cut to begin with and he offered to chat on the phone about the details.

His site is awesome and he is a another great community member generous with his time and knowledge.

I wound up just going cowboy on this one too as the place I asked about cutting it ghosted me.
Whatever.
I had Brian's plans and a protractor.



I have really refined the base building so that you wind up with a machine that is a solid build, easy to move, and still doesn't jump around when you are playing it.
Recently changed to using 2x2s to frame it so the side panels have something just sturdy enough to glue/screw to and make for a solid box.
2" hard rubber casters are key.  Fixed ones for the rear, locking swivels for the front, spaced inboard enough that the things spin freely and don't hit the side panels.



To make it so that sides aren't dragging on the floor I put 3/4" ply on the floor on either side and rest the side panels on it while I attach them to the base.

And if you make it so that the kick/coin door panel is off the floor enough (I set the bottom edge flush with the bottom of the base panel) then you have enough room to reach under and lock the front wheels without needing to pick up the whole cabinet.
No need for leg levelers either.

This has proven to be a fun build because the marquee area is pretty ridiculous.
When I had a good look at original cabinet pictures again it became obvious that there were some pretty weird angles to it all and to make it even more weird is that not only is the marquee on three different planes but the whole thing is tilted in a manner not parallel to much else on the cabinet.
Pays to have a good compound mitre saw for crap like this.



To skip through a bunch of boring stuff, I went through the cut list I made from Brian's handiwork with a DWG viewer and put the rest of the main body together.
The original designers made some weird calls with these cabinets but when you consider that they were trying to introduce games into a bloated marketplace it kind of make sense that they wanted the things to stick out like sore thumbs.
Odd angles to the whole thing, even if not really crazy, marquee lower, brighter and a really obnoxious shape, even the front of the control panel lit up (which I'm not doing round 1 at least.)



I altered the screen face angle a bit (so it isn't such a shoe-gazer) and also the control panel dimensions a tad.
The monitor carrying bit is very Ms. PacMan so easy, and I have stuck to the removable/back screwed kick panel so that I can add coin doors whenever I get around to it.
When I can stomach the cost of the damn things that is really.
Getting the bezel area built will be a ---smurfette---.

I couldn't wait to glass something and had some decent weather for painting (before it started raining incessantly a month ago) so I had at it.



I'm really liking the fiberglass over wood control panel thing.
If you rout the backside properly you have enough room for whatever you want for controls and the reinforcement offered by a few layers of glass makes it pretty tough feeling too.
If I ever feel like getting fancy with CP art then I can tape off and paint or resin up myself or anything you buy from somewhere will stick.

It was at this point in the project that I discovered that the marquee piece was actually a single piece of milky plexiglas that was bent to fit.
I had agonized about getting the angles of the parts carrying the marquee back(plexi)glas as true as possible because I knew that I was going to need to use the actual cabinet as the mold to get the freakin piece bent to fit properly.
I went back and forth with a piece of cardboard and a pencil and razor knife and got the pattern so that the plexi would be the right size and dimension.

Getting it bent to shape wasn't really that hard, just took some patience with a heat gun set on high (both temp and air flow) and getting it JUST soft enough to bend but not get gooey.
 Maybe I should go get some pics of that part in case anybody else is dumb enough to try this and wants some hints.

[javeryh]

bobby this is incredible.  What a cool looking cabinet.  Great game too - I had never played it before but I installed it on my cabaret because of the spinner and really like it.  Of course, the vectors on my CRT don’t look so great but it’s passable.

I’m really interested in your resin control panel - how are the results?  I’ve seen a few people attempt it but it seems like it would drip off the edge and make a mess plus I am not sure I could get it 100% level.

Can’t wait to see more updates and I’m glad I have another project to follow around here!

[bobbyb13]

I don't know about incredible but it has been fun up until now at least- so thank you!
Really is a fun shape cabinet.
Part of my scratch repro build mantra has been 'make something iconic' so this certainly fits.

It really is impressive how good you can get vector games to look on a raster monitor in mame really, but I liked the challenge of building a vector and therr really is no substitute..
It was really intimidating before I started but they are easier to deal with than rasters it turns out.
It's a simple system and between Fred, Barry, Jason, Mario, et al literally everything for a scratch build is a known entity and very do-able.

The resin thing can be tricky depending on how you go about it but this is the 8th one I've done in fiberglass over plywood and I won't make them any other way now.
Maybe the time has come that I do a detailed tutorial with good pictures?
The Neo Geo cabinet build will be a fun one for that, so maybe that is the one to document glass work.

Seperate faces require some steps be done twice but gravity makes it level for you if you do it properly!

I'll see if I can get some pictures to look right and add a few more.

[bobbyb13]

Getting better at picture tweaking!

So the marquee bit was not really so hard once I thought about it.
Get the frame (top and bottom panels) set solidly.
Make a cardboard template of what the plexi needs to be.
Cut plexi to shape and then heat along line to be bent and use the cabinet as the mold for how the bends happen, doing one of the creases at a time.

It actually worked out that way.

I did need to take two shots at making a cardboard template.
It hadn't hit me until I looked at my first attempt that not only were the top and speaker panels on different planes, that also the sides of the marquee panel would not have square corners- anywhere.



Thankfully I only had to do the bending part once- probably because I was agonizing over screwing it up.
I used two plywood scraps for that- one to brace the piece in place and then the other to press the other side to the right angle against the marquee frame.
I worked from the outside edge in and it worked like a charm.

After I had the plexi bent properly I just needed to get some aluminum L bracket bent to match and hold it in place.
A single cut at the proper angle to one side of it and then I only needed to bend it into place and trace the line to cut the triangle out to get it look OK without needing to weld the silly thing.



Repeat for the other angle and then dupe for the top edge.
Spray with a little black primer and then top coat with matte black and there it is.
After that it was easy to pilot holes for trim screws (it is nice to use aluminim for this stuff) and it really fit together pretty nicely for something that I tossed together without having done before.



After I got the plexi to fit well with the brackets in place I needed to figure out how to backlight the thing- because for one, it is a huge cavern of space actually and two, I was concerned that getting light through that milky plexi might be tough.
I opted for ultra low tech in order to flood the space with light and it appears to be okay.
I bought a $3 old school style medium base bulb holder and screwed it to a piece of plywood.
Stuffed an LED floodlight bulb in it and I'm satisfied.



I also got the monitor going (that is a month long saga all its own) and have the USB-DVG working too, although the damn thing hangs here and never loads the VMMenu to actually be able to play anything.
Especially irritating since I have the spinner and buttons all wired up and ready to go too.
Rrrrrr....

I hate being Linux stupid still, but there it is.

[javeryh]

Great work!  I love the marquee shape.  Looks so much nicer than the flat ones.  I am so jealous how quickly you work. It snowed last night so I'm not getting into the shop any time soon (although I'm kicking around some ideas).

So that's a vector monitor in there?  I know less than nothing about them.  Are you converting a regular CRT somehow or are they completely different animals?  How do you source them?  Seems like there would be next to none in the wild...

 

[Mike A]

That USB DVG is quirky.

I know of at least one case where it nuked a G08.

And it never worked right with my G08.

[Xiaou2]

Great work!  I love the marquee shape.  Looks so much nicer than the flat ones.  I am so jealous how quickly you work. It snowed last night so I'm not getting into the shop any time soon (although I'm kicking around some ideas).

So that's a vector monitor in there?  I know less than nothing about them.  Are you converting a regular CRT somehow or are they completely different animals?  How do you source them?  Seems like there would be next to none in the wild...

 

 The main differences between a standard CRT and a Vector monitor:

 A standard TV draws the picture, like how you read a book:  From the top left to the top right...and then it moves down one line, and repeats this process, until it completely fills the screen (Zig-Zag).

 A Vector monitor is different, in that it can start drawing ANYWHERE on the screen..  and it will draw TO any point on the screen.   This means that it you want to draw a Triangle on the screen... you dont have to wait for the beam to draw the entire screen.  You only have to tell the beam to draw a line from one point to the next.

 How does this effect the Picture?

 Because you have 100% control over the Electron beam... you can achieve things that a standard CRT cant do.   For example... you can get Dots and Lines,  at a brightness that NO typically driven CRT can Achieve.  That brightness level, is only really Matched / Rivaled  by actual Lasers.   This is because... if the beam is left for too long in one spot (or is being told to re-draw that same area so often).. the amount of Energy that can excite the tubes Phosphors,  will be FAR higher than what is possible when the CRT is limited to a specific timing... when drawing the entire screen.

 In fact, you have to be careful about Burning the Tube itself.   Some Vector games whos electronics have gone bad... have caused the beam to stay perfectly in the center of the tube (not moving) ...and if you allow that beam to stay there for too long... it will cause permanent  "burn-in"  damage to that particular spot.

 The other feature about the Vectors... is that since you can control the brightness of the beams by how often you re-draw them... and or the voltage levels of the beam itself... you can create many different Intensity levels for your graphics.  For example.. in Asteroids Deluxe.. the players bullets are Extremely Bright, compared to anything else on the screen.  Also... when your ship breaks apart... you will notice that the pieces slowly fade from being mid-brightness... slowly fading in intensity, until the are invisble.


 I have theorized, that if you used something like an older Lamp based LCD.. but rather than using its standard backlight... you used 5 times the amount of lighting power... then with some Customized programming.. you could probably simulate a Vectors intensity, and effects.

 That said... Laser Projectors  are still one of the best ways to match a vectors brightness and dynamic brilliance.  (The type that they use for Laser-Light-Shows... not the modern version that are used to project images/films).

 There is a company that had made a relatively cheap Laser projector,  and people have made a custom set of vector games for it, based on vector arcade games.  The main problem with that particular projector... is that its not fast enough to be able to Draw all of the Vectors in our Emulated Arcade games.  As such, they have to make their own versions, which have reduced numbers of vector lines, and reduced complexity.

 Professional Laser light show projectors... that might be capable of keeping up with an Arcade vector games drawing times / number of vectors... cost several thousands of dollars.

[bobbyb13]

Now that I am actually learning about these things, it's remarkable how much less complicated the design of a vector monitor chassis system is compared to a raster one.

And I can see how a DVG board could roast a monitor Mike.
The relationship of supply voltage, flyback health and case transistor cooling have everything to do with how long any of this ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- can survive actual use and the DVG is built to run stuff hard if it is set to.
Apparently the more you crank the input voltage to the deflection board the more the beam can deflect- within the abilities of the flyback at least, so not sending more voltage than the transistors can deal with is critical to longevity.
Larger screen can be filled with higher voltage of course then, but the transistors can only handle so much thermal stress.

I wonder if your setup (I figure you're talking about the Star Trek?) would benefit from a decent cooling fan or two.
Not sure how those deflection transistors are set up on a G-08 but I can tell you that the way they are on an original WG 6100 is just plain stupid in regard to keeping them cool.
A minor rearrangement of those case transistors and a single fan in the right spot could've altered the history of vector games.

And yes, javeryh, that is a consumer tube properly hijacked to think it is a vector monitor.
And the image it displays is beautiful !
Now if I can get the damn picture rotated properly for vertical games and get the RPi and iPAC to cooperate it will be fully functional.

It has taken me a few years to collect the parts and figure out how to set them up- through a lot of frustrating trial and error in some cases.
Probably spent $30 just on fuses out of paranoia.
 
It has made me crazy that you can't find this info in any one spot and I want others to benefit from my pain!
After all the drama I've endured it turns out it is a simple thing to pull off.

Once I actually get it to work properly for a few days at least I will document the whole vector monitor build here.

It REALLY is not that hard to do but knowing some details I have sorted out makes all the difference.

[Mike A]

That is from a G08.
I only used the USB DVG, borrowed from Arroyo, to narrow down where my problems were.
Then I heard it fried someone's G08.


It turns out that my problem was  bad -5v from the power supply.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk

[bobbyb13]

Man, if having a fan on there is stock it is a hell of a lot better design than the 6100 where the oh so crtitical transistors are just randomly scattered around on the monitor case itself- without a fan in sight.

Too much voltage will overwhelm any transistors no matter what the cooling scenario is I think, so who knows what paricular thing roasted that other G-08.

The Alan-1 guys built a fan cooled box like that G-08 one as an upgrade piece for the 6100 and it looks like it works perfectly.
I've got a last generation 6100 deflection and neck board, new repro HV board, and one of those Alan-1 transistor blocks too.

I think the magic is finding a tube that has a really low resistance/impedence inner yoke winding so that you don't need to mess around with purity and convergence later by using mismatched tube components.

By the time I am building the horizontal vector machine I should have that 6100 assembly running.

Still battling with my damn advmame settings on this thing.

Can't get vertical game image rotation.
Can't get into 'in game' adjustment because the Tab key doesn't do squat.
Can't get any controls at all to work in game- even though the spinner and buttons work in the menus.

Totally stupid since I can do this on a PC likety split.
Maybe I need to ditch the RPi for this build.

[Xiaou2]

Just a heads up...

 There is a guy that Ive seen on Youtube,  that I believe has made new boards for Vector equipment.. and much more.

 His Channel is called  " Arcade Jason "

[bobbyb13]

I've been keeping an eye on that guy but hadn't seen that video yet!
Appreciate the tip Xiaou2.

Jason has actually been helpful to me in getting this machine working.
I have been really interested in his Masteroids project, especially now that it appears that there is color capability added to that project.

One way ArcadeJason was massivley helpful was his video on yoke winding.
He speaks the truth- it is NOT really that hard to do.
I screwed up by winding my ferrites in opposite directions the first time around.
Man, did that ever make the HV chatter more like a shriek.

Second time around was much better.
He confirmed for me that the much lower value I wound up with for resistance/inductance was still ok, even though it was 30-40% lower than what I had read- from what I could find anyway.

And this time around I came up with an easy way to manage the spool of magnet wire while I was at it.



Clamp a huge screwdriver to your bench with a bit of tilt to it to keep the spool from falling off.

I still have no idea why Jason, Barry, Mario, Chad, et al aren't regulars in posting their work over here (where it would be appreciated!) instead of taking heat from all the grouchiest people in the klov crowd or having all of it reside in such a disheveled fashion over on fb.

The hobby as a whole would benefit greatly from a larger dissemination of their efforts- especially outside of social media crap like facefart.
This machine has taken so much more time to build just from me not being able to find important details without weeks of searching and finally getting lucky.
And it still isn't working properly.

So a fellow arcade nerd out here came over today to help me try and get this cabinet to behave and made a huge leap by getting my in game screen orientation fixed- by changing a setting that I had glossed over as having no bearing on the situation.
Thanks Chad!
Now everythying at least faces the way it supposed to.


Probably even more frustrating than that even is that although I have had spinner functionality straight through (I have a SpinTrak plugged directly into the Pi through USB) the device does NOT show up at all during game play.
The iPAC and the buttons I have connected to the Pi through USB do somewhat, but the spinner- no dice.

Extra frustrating since if this was a PC and GroovyMame I would have had it fixed immediately, but I have had no clue how to get this sorted in AdvanceMame as the configuration file setup is almost entirely different (and in Linux of course, in which I am pretty much entirely illiterate.)

Well, I discovered something accidentally today as regards in game adjustments on the Pi for AdvanceMame at least.
The whole time I have thought that the Tab key on my keyboards (I have tried 3) must be broken because I would hit Tab and get no pop-up menu for adjustments.
What I didn't know until today was that it was happening the whole time except that it ONLY shows up on the screen I have connected to the Pi via the HDMI 0 port and NOT on the vector display!
Yeesh.
That was somewhat helpful as I could map the control panel buttons the way I want them, but there is still no capacity to register the spinner there as the in game menu for AdvanceMame feels abbreviated in comparison to the one for GroovyMame that I have been working with on the other machines.

I DID find something about forcing the Pi to look for mouse inputs in AdvanceMame but even after trying to insert those lines still I got nothing.
The way that entering data lines goes in Linux gives me flashbacks of mainframe torture in college using Fortran77.

I still suck at it all.

[javeryh]

The vectors look so cool.  What software are you running on the pi?  Any reason why you aren’t using a PC since you have the space in there?  As you know I’ve been looking for a dead simple SBC solution for a while now and the pi4 worked out OK for my last 2 cabinets but if I was going to build one for myself I don’t think it would cut it (yet) because of the severe limitation on the games it ran at full speed.

Anyway, seeing this come together has inspired me to build… something.  Not sure what yet but I cut 2 side panels this afternoon (58 degrees!) and routed the t-molding slots.  I have no idea what I want to play yet but I’ll figure it out…

[bobbyb13]

I like the adventure of just cutting some panels without a complete plan yet!

If you can find a consumer tube with a yoke that has 2.4 ohm or less resistance on the inner windings (red-blue wires) then I suggest you build yourself a vector machine.

I have been wanting to try a Pi build for a while now actually and making a Cosmic Chasm seemed like a good place to give it a shot.

One of the guys in the group making all this cool vector stuff built a Pi image that is pretty much a plugNplay thing to use with a vector monitor and a USB-DVG board to be able to run AdvanceMame and just play vector games.
Here's a helpful link for anybody who might want to give this a shot.
https://www.vectorheadarcade.com/post/usb-dvg-installation-guide
If you roam arou dthe site there is a pile of awesome stuff those guys are working on.

I need to open up this 24" consumer set I have and see what the yoke values are.  For a few years now I have been saving it to build a horizontal vector machine but I really don't even know if the yoke is a good candidate for rewinding yet.

Maybe I should start on that tonight and document the entire thing here- start to finish.

[bobbyb13]

As threatened, I am going to document hijacking an old school consumer CRT set for a vector monitor build.

Just like Arcade Jason has said (and he was the guy who inadvertantly caused me to sack up and try it) it is NOT that hard!

So, the magic really is finding yourself the right set to begin with.
I have been hoarding these things for a while because I refuse to play all these old games I love on LCD and there are so few monitors available out here (currently this reads as-none) that I knew I would be building these things from parts I can buy from the mainland

So I am ahead of the game here in that I have a stack to crack open and try.

My experience thus far has been the crappier the set, the better.
Sony sets (except maybe unless you can find a really early one that has a single focus flyback- and even that might not work) are out.

The thing I have been saving for this mayhem (and I have only seen one on the island this size) is this:



Like I said, the crappier the better, but this is actually what I would think was a good generic TV back in 1994.
And American built!



Straight outta Indiana!

This happens to be a steep angle tube like an original WG 6100 but this is actually irrelevant for our purposes.
The key is that you find something that has as LOW a resistance/impedance value on the horizontal windings as possible.
Original Wells Gardner 6100 yokes have values somewhere in the neighborhood of 0.6 for vertical windings (yellow and green wires) and 1.2 for horizontal (red-blue wires.)
This thing happens to look like nothing I have seen before- and I have had dozens of sets of various sizes open to look.
Typically the yoke wires are soldered on and the board side has connectors- but no.


For whatever reason this thing is reversed- but whatever.

And like I said ~about~ those values for the original ones.
I don't have a meter to read Henrys, so there you go.

The components that Barry Shilmover is now making EDIT for accuracy! (the reproduction Amplifone deflection board and HV units) are built better than the original parts and have enough adjustment on them that there is a broader range of yoke values that are acceptable and won't blow up your boards.

Anyway, the key to a yoke that will work is finding one that has as LOW a value on the horizontal/inner windings as possible, because the internal windings are wound saddle style and let me tell you, unless you are Buckaroo Banzai, you are NOT rewinding those things.

Find a TV with a yoke with a value of 2.4 or less and you will succeed.
I have rewound ones from horizontal resistance values of 2.4 to 2.0 and they have all worked.

When you rewind the ferrites for the outer/vertical part of the yoke you will probably wind up with a value somewhere between 0.6 and 1.0 for resistance- and that is where you want it to be.
Here's a link if you haven't seen this awesomeness from Arcade Jason yet.

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=arcade+jason+yoke#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:47e66c5c,vid:Ci9qiGVMF7s

His youtube channel is a rabbit hole for me because his stuff is both informative and funny.
Set aside some time if you like a little comedy in your hobby.

The yoke in this thing is looking good thus far as regards resistance value.



But this is one weird yoke.  I haven't seen one like this yet, and I'm not sure I can even get it off the neck because I am not seeing the standard screw collar here either.
yeesh.

Either I'm stoked or I'm boned.  I'll need to dig into this thing a bit.
I have heard people rewinding the ferrite pieces without taking the yoke off the tube so that they don't need to mess with alignment/convergence but we'll see if I can do that here.
On the other one I had success just by marking how the yoke and rings were sitting to begin with and just lining them back up.

I'll post again after I have learned something!

[Mike A]

Nice work.

Vector games should be played on vector monitors.

[Arroyo]

Damn Bobby you don’t sit still for a minute!

Looks like you beat me to posting this stuff.  Nice job.

The boards from Barry are Amplifone clones.  Nice part about Amps are they have pots that allow you to dial in the height and width as they vary the current flow through the yoke.

In an ideal world your yoke winding inductance and resistance would be almost the same (they are very close on 6100’s and Amp’s).  This is because a vector draws free form in X & Y and therefore you want the chassis to be able to draw just as quickly in on direction as the other (a little more inductance for X due to the longer length) .  You are able to have variance in those two as Jason pointed out because of the pots on the deflection board.  With a 6100 you don’t have pots so that is where having the values close to the original yoke becomes important.  If it’s any help Amp yoke readings are here:

Vertical - 0.6 ohms
Horizontal - 1.2 ohms

Vertical - 0.625 mH
Horizontal - 0.796 mH

I’ve come across a yoke like that one before.  They just put a connector to the terminals rather than soldering them.  It looks like your ferrite cores have a cover at the base.  There should be a way of removing that to more easily get to the ferrites. 

As for taking it off or winding it in place.  Yeah ideally you remove the ferrites in place without moving it, but as you mentioned I think it’s just as easy to mark it and remove.  The one argument for keeping it in place is convergence strips.  If you have any either on the tube or embedded in the yoke then you will want to take great care in making sure they don’t move.  Getting them back if you didn’t know where they went is the real trouble.

That tube is valuable if it is indeed a 100deg.  Many mainland folks would be happy to swap you for a standard 90 degree 😁.

Keep up the good work.

[Arroyo]

Oh and here’s my setup that I’ll be posting about at some point:

[Mike A]

Nice.

This is good stuff.

[abispac]

Keeping my eye on this one, it would be so freaking cool to build a vector monitor and play vectrex games on it. I still trying to figure out, so im reading over and over, please guys keep it coming. Thanks
OMG plaring starwars on such monitor.... 

[bobbyb13]

Arroyo!
Good to see you come up for air.
I appreciate you chiming in on the mess I'm making. It is obvious I have a little editing to do and I'm happy to hear what I am doing wrong at any point.
Of course if I knew that you were at this same endeavor I wouldn't have bothered posting my hack work!
 
I did actually have some time to do a little harness building today for the next one. I am curious to know what the wiring situation for those heatsink cooling fans is since the set I have of course didn't come with any instructions.

I'll take a shot at posting some pictures here once my work day is finally over.

[Zebidee]

Nice work Bobby! Was hoping to see a vector build post. I've been lurking on Barry's FB group and noting your participation.

[bobbyb13]

Sadly at this point my participation is mostly begging for help to get AdvanceMame to recognize my spinner!
Thanks Andrew.
I've been wanting to get at this for a while now.

Of course this may be an exercise in futility because this otherwise choice tube has a bonded yoke and no adjustment rings.
Not the best thing to be working with to try to instill confidence in anyone really since every other set I have cracked into was far easier to deal with.

But anyway...
Last night I stayed up far too late (can't help myself) and rewound the ferrites for this yoke.
I had no choice here, but leaving the yoke on is a great idea I think.
This thing had some spacers that both hold the ferrites off the yoke body and also direct how the windings can group.
I did not rewind this exactly as it was done originally, but opted to space the wire out as evenly as I could.
It may not work right like this but I will try it this way first.



After I had it all back together the resistance value of 0.6 I got was what I have seen work on my other build so I figure maybe it will be ok here too.

I spent a little time building harnesses and doing layout while I was stuck on the phone today.
Hopefully the vga connectors I ordered get here soon, as the earlier version of the board I have here for this build doesn't have a vga plug, so I need to solder one up.

The rest of these connectors are really straight forward molex kk style ones and I believe that the kits come with all of them required.
Like I said, both of the ones I have here I got second hand  (impatient waiting on the one I got in line for a while back!) so I can't be sure of what they were originally shipped with.

If you include the power supply, there are only 4 parts to this whole thing apart from the tube and yoke.



The degauss posistor board, which I have opted to run line voltage from my power distribution block.
It should be fused on the line side of course.  I have used a 5 amp fast blow and had no issues.



The high voltage unit gets its power from the deflection board through a 4 pin molex connector and has the neckboard (which I suppose I should have taken a picture of) already attached here.
There is also a 3 wire connector out to feed the deflection board fans but I am not sure if the third wire is a signal wire or what.
Help Scott! 



It is also the only one of the components that needs to be grounded to the tube.
There is a through hole on the front corner to solder to.

The deflection board has the most activity on it.
I don't believe the original Amplifone boards had any active cooling system so this beats that already, and I know the current versions of this kit include an even more massive heat sink but no included fans.
Not sure what temperature those transistors are happy to run at for a long time but I have read 175 F on the other newer heatsink right next to the transistors so that could probably benefit from a fan too, even if it isn't attached directly to the heatsink.

The other parts of these boards appear the same no matter which version you might have.



Everything is very well labeled so this is rather redundant, but...

Connector for HV unit is the one upper left.

The one lower left goes to the neckboard.

It's important to make sure you follow the printing on the board mask because I know on one of my kits the wires cross in that harness.

The connector in the middle of the board is for the yoke, one pair left, the other right.

Video signal is the one on the bottom middle.  I need to dig up a diagram I found of how this should be soldered to that vga connector to mate with the DVG properly.
When my connectors show up I will post that too.

Finally is the power header on the lower right side.
This was the part that scared me the most because I didn't want to blow anything up- and I immediately thought I had.

It requires +24VDC and -24VDC.

The board literally uses one leg to send the beam one direction, and the other leg to send it the opposite way.
I believe it is the positive sends the beam right on the X axis and up on the Y axis and the negative sends it left on X and down on Y.
If you think about it, that makes troubleshooting issues easier as things will fail in halves or quadrants.

Cool stuff.

So really all you need is two 24 volt DC power supplies.
The +24 one you wire normally and you swap the positive and negative wires from the other supply to feed the -24 side.
That is it.
You don't need any crazy toroidal 50VDC center tapped transformer to get this to run.

That said, still the first problem I had was outsmarting myself and mixing the wires on the harness and sending +24 V to both sides of the board.
Remarkably (and thankfully) it didn't kill anything.
It wouldn't, it just sends voltage that the board can't properly amplify the signal of to get full deflection.
If you sent a lot more than 24VDC then you might blow stuff up of course (I recall one reply from Fred saying that you could probably actually send the board 35 VDC and it could handle it.)
More voltage, more ability to amplify it and make for a wider image.  No idea what the threshold for that might be for screen size, but I do know that Barry said he intentionally was sizing things on the later board kits to mimic the ability of a 25" Amplifone.
That is the dream of course.

And all this explains why the first image I saw was just this cute little 1/4" wide winking ball in the middle of the screen.
The board was unable to deflect anything one direction because I had given it the wrong polarity of voltage to do so.

As far as the other axis being squashed, I hadn't realized yet that I had wound the ferrites in opposite directions either.
Hence the little ball of no deflection.

And even after I had corrected my first obvious failure and finally sent proper voltage to the deflection board, all the cross wound yoke did was squash the picture into this 3/8" horizontal line in the middle of the screen.
It also made the flyback screech to raise the hair on your neck so I shut it off fast and tried another yoke, which I accidentally wound properly the first time!

Now I know.

As soon as my other pair of power supplies and vga connector get here I will finish the bench build of this thing and fire it up and see what we get.

Should be interesting given this yoke situation.
 

[Mike A]

Of course if I knew that you were at this same endeavor I wouldn't have bothered posting my hack work!

You are doing good work.

I love to see this kind of stuff on BYOAC.

[PL1]

There is also a 3 wire connector out to feed the deflection board fans but I am not sure if the third wire is a signal wire or what.
Help Scott! 

You guessed right.  It's the tachometer sensor wire.



A protective shutdown circuit plus a 3-pin fan is a good design choice for applications like this where overheating due to not enough air flow can cause severe damage.


Scott

[Zebidee]

If the signal wire is disconnected or not used, the fan simply runs at full speed.

[bobbyb13]

It is comforting to know that the people who have replied here are seeing this fiasco unfold.
If anyone can keep me in line it will be you gents- so thank you all.
 

Now if we can just find somebody who knows Linux well enough to help me fix AdvanceMame to see my spinner...
 

I had suspected that with regard to the fan wiring but wasn't sure- so thank you both.
At least I know what to do with that now.

It appears that the other parts I need for this won't get here until the weekend.
That's an adequate amount of time for me to get REALLY antsy about it.

I guess any free time I get this week might be spent putting bulbs in the Simpsons pinball-
 

[bobbyb13]

Well, been so damn busy that no bulbs went into anything.

I DID however make time to try AGAIN to get the spinner for this beast sorted out- and I learned something.

My iPAC 2 board is knocking out the spinner- in game- somehow.

Not sure why, but when I started with a fresh SD image for the Pi, added the few lines of code I still don't fully understand to the advmame.rc and advmenu.rc files, and then fired it up with only a plain old USB keyboard, and the SpinTrak via USB-

It worked.
The freakin spinner worked.
Not just in Chad's awesome vector game menu the way it has all along, but even in a game of Tempest.

I remember seeing in my otherwise useless meanderings around the interwebs that the iPAC allocates for a joystick (not just a secondary keyboard)- which could be breaking my spinner in AdvanceMame somehow.

When I sort this out (i.e. actually learn something more about how this crap works) I will post again.

Oh, and my power supplies showed up, so maybe I can get the other vector build fired up before the weekend is out.
 

[Zebidee]

My iPAC 2 board is knocking out the spinner- in game- somehow.

You might be having some device ID conflicts?

Someone (@drventure) created a controller remap utility to help analyse and sort out these issues. I haven't used it myself, but looks like it may do the job:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,108767.0.html

[bobbyb13]

Biggest issue is that I still understand almost nothing about Linux.
I have already suffered this pain with Windows enough times that I can sort these things out for a groovymame build.

I have been back and forth with burning a fresh image to this sd card so many times that I sometimea forget where I am.

The fact that I don't know how to meander through files on the Pi makes finding and altering things I need to or correcting things I break frustrating and difficult/impossible.

It just occurred to me that now I finally got those two elements ov I-PAC and Spintrak to play nicely with the Pi that maybe at this point I can alter what else I need to through the in-game tab key pop up.

I reflashed the I-PAC with new firmware and I forgot that I need to register those button strokes with AdvanceMame again (as I have two keyboards connected now as far asthe software is concerned.)

The joys of custom builds.
This part I need to document here step by step also when I finally get it all working- which hopefully is today!

[Zebidee]

Biggest issue is that I still understand almost nothing about Linux.
I have already suffered this pain with Windows enough times that I can sort these things out for a groovymame build.

I have been back and forth with burning a fresh image to this sd card so many times that I sometimea forget where I am.

Ooops yes, you are slicing Pi. I probably know even less about Linux than you 

If you document your efforts, then at least you (and the rest of us) will know how to do it next time 

[bobbyb13]

And that's where I'm at!
Man, this has been super frustrating but I just pulled it off.
The machine actually works now- 100%.

The last time I refreshed the sd image and fired it up with the I-PAC connected and the spinner plugged into it, this appeared on the HDMI monitor (which if you have a prayer of making this happen you MUST have during setup at least.



I was encouraged because it meant that the spinner was actually registering as a device where I needed it to finally- even if it had a monstrous deadzone?!
Holy crap-

And sure enough, it was working, even if it acted like I drank a gallon of espresso 15 minutes ago.

Mind you, I wasn't getting control button function anymore, but since I had it before I was confident I could get it back.
And since I was on a roll anyway, and the ultimate goal for this machine is that it COULD play Cosmic Chasm, Tempest, and with a control panel swap Quantum also, I figured why not push my luck and see if I can get a trackball recognized here too while I was at it.
At least I would know if I had all of my configuration stuff sorted and can get on to finishing the cabinet itself.

So I built the harness I knew I needed to attach directly to the I-PAC.


What had occurred to me this morning when I woke up ridiculously early and was perseverating on the deadzone issue (which I haven't been able to fix in the \root\boot\cmdline.txt file yet) is that I might be able to get the deadzone fixed in the in-game menu (via the magic 'Tab" button.)
It then immediately occurred to me also that my lack of button response wasn't device conflict, crappy harness connection or screwed up I-PAC configuration, but that since last time I started over with a fresh sd image for the Pi I had NOT gone back in to map my buttons again.
Yeesh.

With this revelation and my maxed control panel setup I decided I should give the whole enchilada a go before my rather mudane tasks the rest of the day.
I got the trackball temporarily plugged in for testing and cleaned my button contacts just for good measure and plugged it all in.



I fired it up and nobody could be as surprised (pleased!) as I am that it actually did what I wanted it to.
Hallelujah
Finally.

How many weeks of Pi torture has this been?!

So, now refreshed, I will go get through my chores for the day and then sit down this evening to outline the ENTIRE process of going from CanaKit to functional vector machine and list the parts I used and steps in order.

And then HOPEfully somebody else can do this in one straight shot without all the tears, loss of hair and desire to throw things.

[bobbyb13]

Once again, as threatened, I am posting some more.
Warning:

Not only is this next bit pic and link heavy, if you are already well versed in the art of Pi you will find it extraordinarily boring- so I apologize now.

The other caveat is that I am so Pi stupid that I am using a PC to get all this crap sorted.
Working on the Pi itself to do some of this stuff makes my hair hurt and you can do everything except the finer points of controller details on a PC via network connection before you even fire the Pi up.

If you are like me and can hardly tell your ass from a hole in the ground as regards the Pi do your self a HUGE favor and just buy a complete CanaKit.



It has everything you need to do this properly and easily.
Follow (only!) steps #1-3 in the QuickStart guide directions to put it all together and get to where you need to be.

If you actually know what you are doing you can probably just follow the install method found here (which you should have at hand anyway even if you are counting on me to not destroy things.)
EDIT!
For very understandable reasons, Barry has nuked association with some portions of the USB-DVG project and the link previously here leads to a 404.
Here is the still functional google drive files uploaded by Mario M to be able to accomplish this feat of vector wonderfulness!

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1KNNcKDJn_mh87HGbJHj9IvhJUWHlr3CX

There is a pdf in there detailing things I go over here also, but I have added quite a bit throughout this post actually.

Also, if you missed it before, I can't remember if I linked to this one yet, but you REALLY need to watch Jason Kopp's YT bit here also.



If for some reason you think sticking with me is a smart move then read on.

I started fresh here with a new Pi for visuals (and this one will actually be what I use for my horizontal build  ) and it is remarkable how quickly you can get all this up and running.

The reason you don't even hit step #4 is that we are going to nuke the image that the included SD card comes with and write one that was written specifically for using a USB-DVG wo play vector games.

Also, download the Raspberry Pi imager so you can do this easily and follow along step by step here.
I probably have an old version here since I have been torturing myself with this for so long but I imagine it works the same way.

https://www.raspberrypi.com/news/raspberry-pi-imager-imaging-utility/

Get your SD card into a USB reader and plug it in and then fire that Pi imager up and you should see this thing.



Be prepared to have a few Windows Explorer windows open for file management because it gets a little nutty if you don't want to just copy and paste this stuff from what I will post here.

N.B.
At ANY point in this process you might/will see all kinds of warning pop ups randomly appear because Windows is pissed off that you are using something else, and the PC will warn you that it can't understand what is going on.
It is important to IGNORE these alerts and just close them without any action otherwise- or you can possibly confuse the Pi imager and break things.



I have seen it at numerous times during this process and had it occur with different types of warnings.
Hit the magic 'X' and disregard them all.

Ok, so when you click on "Choose System" on the imager app you will see a list of possibilities in another window and you need to scroll all the way down to see this:



You want to pick "Use Custom" of course and then you will get another window to pick what you want to write to your card.
Dig around until you find the image you need to use, which currently is this:



You already read the REAL installation guide I linked above before and downloaded the image you need to use, yeah?!
If somehow you are lazier than me (unlikely) and nothing has been moved than you can probably still find the latest version in the above link (and again right here below as before) to all of Mario's google drive files with regard to the Pi.

NEW STUFF!
Mario has also produced a new image for use the new Pi 5 so make sure you are using the right disk image for your build.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1KNNcKDJn_mh87HGbJHj9IvhJUWHlr3CX

Once you have found where Windows tried to help you hide your Pi image from yourself and chosen it, you will need to choose the target for the image.
Mine looked like this and I imagine yours will look similar even if the drive designation is different:



If you have followed my directions and somehow this has all still worked you will see it first writing and then verifying the image with progress of a cute little green bar.
Be patient, it does actually take a little bit for it to start and then get through the whole thing.

Patience there should net you this:



At that point you can close this all up.
Close all windows that could have anything to do with the SD card (including any more stupid Windows alerts that may have popped up) and when you are finished you can just pull the card reader out.
Windows can't see the SD card as it is (it won't show up as existing in the far rigth side of the tool bar anyway) so you won't break anything without ejecting it first.

Enough for this round.
I need to upload more pics anyway.

Oh, and this all works much better if you are listening to The Cramps and/or The Chats while you are at it.
 

[bobbyb13]

While I'm waiting for the risotto to simmer it's way to greatness I figured I should have some more wine and keep going!

In the interest of using up more of the space of that which Saint hath built, I will post more crap.

Alright, so you have the USB-DVG Pi image written to your SD card already so it is time to put that thing in your Pi and get it tied into the network that I hope you have available to you at your house.

We are blessed to live in the middle of frackin nowhere so the only reason I can torture any of you with this stuff is that we get radioed some internet from a few miles away- hence the weird router cube thing.
Pardon my ramble, but plug your Pi into an available port on your router, plug your transformer in and click that little button to turn your Pi on.



Give it a minute to understand that it is alive before you try to log into it through Windows.

If you open an Explorer window on the PC you should be able to type this in and actually get somewhere.



My system here thinks about it for a minute, but it gets there eventually.

This is the folder into which you want to copy your taboo elements.
Don't ask, don't tell.

For the rest of our network enabled adjustments the rest is important.

The following bit is the code that someone FAR smarter than me came up with to add somewhere in the Pi- and it actually works.
If the person who wrote this is reading here please message me and I'll send you something mea culpa style for listing your work unacknowledged!

Do the copy and paste thing with the following mouse additions in the manner I set forth in the following if you want to not agonize over this for (at least) weeks like I did.

device_mouse raw
device_raw_mousedev[0] /dev/input/mouse0
device_raw_mousedev[1] /dev/input/mouse1
device_raw_mousedev[2] /dev/input/mouse2
device_raw_mousedev[3] /dev/input/mouse3
device_raw_mousetype[0] ps2
device_raw_mousetype[1] ps2
device_raw_mousetype[2] ps2
device_raw_mousetype[3] ps2
input_map[p1_dialx] mouse[0,x] mouse[1,x] mouse[2,x] mouse[3,x]
input_map[p1_dialy] mouse[0,y] mouse[1,y]mouse[2,y] mouse[3,y]
input_map[p1_trackballx] mouse[0,x] mouse[1,x] mouse[2,x] mouse[3x]
input_map[p1_trackbally] mouse[0,y] mouse[1,y] mouse[2,y] mouse[3y]

Easy, ain't it?!
Copy and paste EXACTLY this to a notepad file that you can pull up and copy and paste all/portions of (as detailed here shortly) into the proper places in your Pi image files.

And whoever wrote this is brilliant, in that they accomodated FOUR different ways that both you and your Pi could screw this up.
Bear in mind, I am also setting up to use a trackball on a separate panel also and this allows for that.
If you aren't going to use one these lines additions will not break your build as far as I have seen.

Ok, first addition (that I believe helps but at least doesn't break anything?!) is to advmame.rc


Click the little 'one directory up' button while in the rom directory to get to where you need to make the changes that make all this stuff actually work.



You could always type the location of the advancemame.rc file into the nav bar too, but that is for industrious people who know what the hell they are doing here.

Now here is the part that MIGHT be redundant, but since it doesn't break anything apparently and I don't know for sure you can NOT do this and have function without drama.
I have been back and forth with this so many times that I don't have the emotional fortitude for another round as a 'test.'
Anyone who knows better (id est, anyone who knows a Pi and AdvanceMame better than me) please chime in so that we can do away with this step of adding to advmame.rc if it is ok to do so.

Here is what I had up for explorer windows to make this happen.



Open that advmame.rc file, and if you haven't toyed with this on your PC previously then you will probably need to tell it to open these files from your Pi using Notepad.
I literally copied and pasted the entire spinner settings file I show to the end of the advmame.rc file.

Dig in and get that addition made.

Save your changes and close the window.
Done.

Next is adding to advmenu.rc

Navigate into that and roll down until you find the first mouse device line.



The line that shows mouse_device none needs to be

mouse_device raw

The eight lines following the raw_keyhack line in the Pi on the left also need to be updated as shown with what I have highlighted in my spinner settings from the window on the right:



The last four lines of these additions needs to be what is shown in my spinner settings on the right also, so for the sake of clarity scroll down until you hit the i's in your code and then add/overwrite so that what you see looks like this if it isn't already what you need:



As far as things to alter in your code via PC/network connection, that is it.

Don't forget to save, close all the windows you had open in regard to this surgery and then you can shutdown your Pi and unplug it all in preparation to install in your cabinet.

Things to note as you continue:

*As far as I can tell the Pi actually remembers where you had things plugged into it via USB (unlike Windoze, which loves to rearrange crap for you randomly) so make your life easier and be mindful of EXACTLY where you plug things in for future reference.

*I have had ZERO success using a wireless keyboard/mouse combination device in configuring the Pi once in the cabinet.
Do yourself a favor here and just use a plain old corded keyboard for controller configuration.

*I have NO idea if AdvanceMame fails to launch without having an audio device connected (the way MAME has for me in the past) so do yourself a favor here also and just have something plugged into the Pi that will make some noise.  The Pi has a 3.5mm stereo jack so make it happen.
It also helps because you can hear Chad's menu wake up when it starts and hear keystroke and spinner/joystick indications as you navigate and exit too.

*You MUST have a display (in addition to the vector CRT you have hopefully already acquired or built and is connected to your USB-DVG) plugged into HDMI port 0 on the Pi while finishing up or you simply can't do it.
Unlike any other MAME build I/you may have attempted, NOTHING will show up on the CRT except what the vectormenu or game are doing.
When it comes to getting AdvanceMame to register your control panel inputs (via the 'Tab' key while in a game- or to adjust things later on) the secondary display is imperative.

Ok-

Now that you have your Pi all set up the next thing is to take care of your controls.

You can be cheap if you want to and try to use something else (and a properly configured Arduino board will suffice here of course- but I am not that smart yet PL1 !) however the following detail is written in reference to an I-PAC and a SpinTrak because I can attest that the following just simply works.

Andy at Ultimarc offers top notch customer service and quickly replied when I asked about what my build was gagging on so that I could fix it.
I've been buying stuff from him for years and he always helps.

I have also bought really nice parts from Randy at groovygamegear (whose support is equal to Andy's) and I am sure that he has a board and Twist that will do exactly the same, although the configuration process will probably differ slightly.
If I can get the time to buy stuff from Randy also I'll test that out too and add notes here if anyone would like.

So, before you fire up the machine with the Pi connected and have fits like I did, let's get your control interface set up properly.

One of the cool things about the I-PAC is that there is are a number of utilities to get your board to act the way you need it to.
If you head to Andy's website you will see a few downloads available for I-PAC boards.

https://www.ultimarc.com/control-interfaces/i-pacs/i-pac2/

I decided to flash the one in the Cosmic Chasm cabinet with the 'Mixed Mode' firmware as it referenced Retropie and I had tried other iterations with no success.
This MAY be the only way it works, but that may not be the case for you.
Again, I am nervous to break what I have that works so I am not starting over to test something else without a pretty good bribe to do so.
 

Andy's app and directions are very straightforward so I won't bore you with reiterating.

And after I had flashed the board I mounted it to the panel and wired in my controls appropriately.
There is a header on the I-PAC to plug both the SpinTrak AND trackball (I have a regular old Happ here) into at the SAME time- and they both work.

This is absolutley awesome from my seat since it allows me to play Cosmic Chasm, Tempest, Tac/Scan with this panel and also Quantum with a panel swap.

Love this.

For the sake of being thorough, this particular cabinet was built solely as a vertical game unit.
X Y monitors don't care about orientation really as they are deflecting from center so you can always be smarter than me and just build a wider cabinet with a 25" tube horizontally oriented and be able to play EVERYthing in one cabinet reasonably well as long as you get per-game configuration proper.

I don't do much reasonably it appears.

I need to revisit the vertical vector game possibilities here.

[bobbyb13]

I realize that I am in a timezone inconvenient for those who aren't insomniacs or early risers but I sometimes feel like I am in an empty auditorium-
Even if there have been over 1,100 views more than comments here!

Suckahs-

So the saga continues.

I fired up my build after the LAST time I burned a new image here and although I can ACTUALLY play Tempest now...

NO Cosmic Chasm again!

The rom files are there but there is no entry in vmmenu- again.
Not sure why this doesn't show up when there is a rom for it present (two versions of it in fact) so back to configuration we go.
I suspect that Chad's menu config writing script is only set to check the first time it is run.

I have however seen in Chad's quite rad vector game menu that you can enable/disable games there once the menu is running on your vector display.
I need to check it again.
Can't remember how to get to it at the moment, and when I am doing this stuff I am going back and forth between my laptop and network in the house and the machine- which is in the workshop 100 yds from here.

After I have had a bottle and a half of wine it begins to get a little fuzzy sometimes.

I dragged the Pi back down here anyway, as I know that I can add a line to the vmmenu.cfg file (for some reason it isn't an '.rc' file in this particular instance) and force the Pi to realize it is there.
If I knew more about how Linux works this wouldn't be so confusing and cryptic- sorry- but at least we know what I am doing works.
 

I may go try it again before I go to sleep because I can't help myself.

No, of course I will try it again before I go to sleep.

[Mike A]

I am watching, but I have zero input to offer on working with a Pi.

I am just here for the vectory goodness.

[bobbyb13]

Appreciate the moral support Mike!

The Pi is like anything else really I guess, but anyone who says it is easy to work with has been working with them for a while obviously.

And as I thought, the lines referencing Comic Chasm were missing from the total game list in vmmenu.cfg
My only guess is that when Chad was writing the code initially he just missed it.
When you include all the different versions of various games and then add to that all the Vectrex ones that are in there also it winds up being a LOT of titles- so it is easy to see something as obscure as CC being missed.

I added a line for CC following the convention I found in that file and when I fired it up again, it worked.

EDIT!!  Here are those lines.

Cinematronics|Cosmic Chasm|cchasm|cchasm
Cinematronics|Cosmic Chasm|cchasm|cchasm1

Got to play some CC, a little Tempest, even a few games of Major Havoc - just because I could.

However, the oddness of the Pi continues in that the in game configuration doesn't always do what I expect it to and the spinner wasn't registering in Tempest Tubes for some reason.

More weirdness to run down.

[Zebidee]

I'm keenly following your progress Bobby.

Although I'm more interested in the vector side of your adventures, your trials and tribulations with the Pi are also interesting to follow. I can see why you went with advancemame and Pi, it is really all you need. For now, I just read and let it wash over me, rather than trying to understand it all. 

One of these days, when I've worked down my wishlist of projects, I'd like to similarly do a vector cab, possibly with a Pi. So this thread will be a useful resource.

[bobbyb13]

The intent was to make this so that someone could sit down with the parts, scroll through this thread, build the thing, and have it just work- minus the months of agony!

As always, the devil is in the details.
I'll be stoked to hear from even one person at some point who followed this and found success with it.

The only bit left is particulars of setting up power for the monitor at this point really.
I have a lot going on this week so it may be a few days before I can add that here.

[bobbyb13]

20+ hours of rain gave me a reprieve from some crap and a little time to mess around in the workshop.

So the Cosmic Chasm machine is going, and also plays Tempest and Tac/Scan well!
No blowing fuses any longer, boots without issue, controls are working well, BUT-

The image on screen still isn't what it needs to be.
I have been able to play with the yoke a bit and get purity to be OK and in the center of the screen convergence is fine but as you head to the perimeter it goes to hell.



I messed around with the position and orientation of the neck rings, position and tilt of the yoke, done a dance and pleaded with the vector gods and I still can't get it good.
I'll play it mind you, but at some points in some games it REALLY does not have the vector sharpness that the initiated know and love because the images shadow in various colors sometimes.

Now THIS part is making me nuts.

Tomorrow hopefully I can go buy a stack of refrigerator magnets (the thin flexy kind of bits you can cut into strips- it is what I have seen on tubes anyway) and begin experimenting.

It's comforting to know that at this point, with all new components laid out just so, and everything getting the voltage it wants, that I can play around with how the beam is defelecting at this point and not be afraid that I am going to blow something up.

What's wrong with just warping the trajectory of an electron gun beam a little, right?!

Seems like really the only things to be concerned about with Barry's Amplifone repro kit is to-

1. Make sure your deflection board is getting proper clean voltage.
2. The thing has room to breath (because it DOES get hot still- even with that massive heat sink on it.)
3. The yoke you are using doesn't require that you be at the maximum of any of the adjustment pots on both the USB-DVG and the deflection board, as I imagine that this would indicate that you are stressing the thing and that will most certainly affect longevity of compopnents.

My only real concern with the thing at this point is the question of HOW hot is TOO hot for the deflection board heat sink?



It appears to hover around 150-175 F most of the time but when I was working on yoke and ring adjustments and had a test pattern up for a few minutes the thing got HOT.
REALLY hot.
Like over 200 F

Right after a game of Tempest it is frequently at 185 F right over just one of the transistors on that heat sink but the temp drops quickly, and even then most of the heatsink never gets over 165.
The operating temperature of these things was quite a shock.  No wonder so many vector monitors blew up way back when.

Not ONE of them really had adequate design/layout to accomodate cooling this stuff and I think the Electrohome G-08 was the worst because it was even more at the mercy of flaky voltage from the game boards than even anything Atari had made.

No matter what I may hear from anyone about component heat tolerance I will be putting a fan on this heat sink also.
Only question is should it be mounted directly to it or not and should it be pushing or pulling in relation to air movement across the heatsink.

Also looks like I will be putting some good size vent holes in this cabinet.

[PL1]

No matter what I may hear from anyone about component heat tolerance I will be putting a fan on this heat sink also.
Only question is should it be mounted directly to it or not and should it be pushing or pulling in relation to air movement across the heatsink.

For an open layout like your setup, I'd go with push for better directionality.
- Pull will draw air from the path of least resistance.  The far side of the heat sink will not get as much air flow.

I'd probably put the fan(s) to the left of the heat sink and slightly above it, blowing parallel with the cooling fins and slightly downward so the air blows through the entire length of the fins.


Scott

[bobbyb13]

I was thinking along the same lines but wasn't sure if my thinking was correct.
Only other possibility was is it even better to put the fan in the side of the cabinet and have it draw air from outside to blow across the heatsink.
Thanks as always for your thoughts Scott!

No matter what I may hear from anyone about component heat tolerance I will be putting a fan on this heat sink also.
Only question is should it be mounted directly to it or not and should it be pushing or pulling in relation to air movement across the heatsink.

For an open layout like your setup, I'd go with push for better directionality.
- Pull will draw air from the path of least resistance.  The far side of the heat sink will not get as much air flow.

I'd probably put the fan(s) to the left of the heat sink and slightly above it, blowing parallel with the cooling fins and slightly downward so the air blows through the entire length of the fins.


Scott

[Zebidee]

Tomorrow hopefully I can go buy a stack of refrigerator magnets (the thin flexy kind of bits you can cut into strips- it is what I have seen on tubes anyway) and begin experimenting.

From what I've heard, fridge magnets are not great for convergence strips.

Some seem to have better luck with craft knife blades, which can be snapped to appropriate size, and magnetising them by running a permanent magnet along them a few (?) times. Then you wrap them in tape and position accordingly.

If you are ever trashing an old CRT, is a good idea to grab any useful bits like convergence strips, rubber yoke feet, degaussing coils, maybe even the yoke itself.

No matter what I may hear from anyone about component heat tolerance I will be putting a fan on this heat sink also.
Only question is should it be mounted directly to it or not and should it be pushing or pulling in relation to air movement across the heatsink.

Also looks like I will be putting some good size vent holes in this cabinet.

Scott's right, have the fans blow over the heat sinks. I'm thinking you could use multiple fans, maybe two 4" fans? I'd also suggest a large fan (quieter), at a vent near top, to draw hot air out. Put in a vent at the bottom to stimulate airflow throughout the cab.

[bobbyb13]

I had forgotten that the way I built the cabinet there is a huge vent across the front toe kick panel.
If I just drill a hole in the top panel and put a fan sucking out on it that should help immensely.

I might actually shift the deflection board over to the side of the cabinet and put a fan underneath it pushing air through the slots and up.

The pair of fans I ordered came in today so we'll see how soon I can get to this.

I have a roll of magnetic tape and a few small cake neodymium magnets so we'll see what I have learned after a little experimentation.

[Xiaou2]

Fans do not "Suck" anywhere near as good as they "Blow".

 You can test this for yourself.. with a standard box fan.   Place the fan facing away from you... and see if you can tell any difference.
Then point it towards you.

 The thing about "Air" is that it behaves like a Fluid... and Fluids flow and swirl, in very chaotic directions.

 All PC Servers, use Forced Air, to blow through them...  as do standard CPU coolers.  Anyone that has tried to reverse
their CPU cooler fan to "Suck" the heat away... has typically ended up having their CPU permanently Fried.
(or severely heat "Throttled".. until it completely overheats and auto-shuts off)

 Most Arcade Cabinets have top vents for rising hot air to escape.  And many even have Fans that are mounted towards the top of
the cab, that push out of the top-rear of the cabinet.

 Additionally, some cabinets have Inlet fans at the bottom... to pull cooler air into the cab.. with the top fans blowing hot air out
of the cabinet.

* Actually, the fans at the bottom, are probably more to cool the Power Supply / Transformer units, that typically sit down there.

 I highly recommend using a good cooling fan, blowing directly across your heat-sinks.  The cooling will be Far more effective, and
will greatly extend the lifespan of the electronic components.

[bobbyb13]

Yeah, I'm not in the mood to build a manifold for a fan to draw through for the "suck" concept to be functional.  I have space to arrange well for the "blow"air flow plan.
I'm going to not fight physics so I'll mount the deflection board on its side so that the fan will be blowing up through the cooling fins- and then have a fan on the top panel drawing air out of the cabinet.
There is a 2" deep slot that is the width of the cabinet in front so there will be plenty of air flow available.

I thought I would be doing this over the weekend but Tyler finally got motivated enough to clean his room so I would help him put together this pile of this gaming rig components for him, which I've been staring at since... Christmas!?

[pbj]

 

Fans do not "Suck" anywhere near as good as they "Blow".

 You can test this for yourself.. with a standard box fan.   Place the fan facing away from you... and see if you can tell any difference.
Then point it towards you.

Steve.  Please sit and rethink about this for a moment.

[bobbyb13]

This is the funniest thing I have read in a while!

Fans do not "Suck" anywhere near as good as they "Blow".

 You can test this for yourself.. with a standard box fan.   Place the fan facing away from you... and see if you can tell any difference.
Then point it towards you.

Steve.  Please sit and rethink about this for a moment.

[abispac]

Bobby13, i love this thing and the most important part is the making of the monitor with consumer parts and the fact you can hook a pi to output vectors, have you thinked on making a separated topic on how to build a vector monitor so you can share that knowledge?

[bobbyb13]

I thought that's what I was doing here?
 

I haven't been able to update anything on the monitor itself here for a while because first I was waiting for parts and now I'm waiting for free time!

Hopefully I can get back at it over the coming week.

[Edgecrusher]

I thought that's what I was doing here?
 

I haven't been able to update anything on the monitor itself here for a while because first I was waiting for parts and now I'm waiting for free time!

Hopefully I can get back at it over the coming week.

Important thing is your project is valuable to some people. I've been wanting to thank you for posting this myself. I'm not as well versed on anything related to video games or the machines they ran in. I just know what I loved when I played them back in the '80's and now that I'm an old guy and an electrician I'm realizing these are really challenging projects. I have to admit my ignorance, before this post I didn't even realize games like Tempest (my all time favorite alongside Star Wars) required a special monitor to display correctly. I've been collecting quite a few TV's the last couple years and my next cabinet I intended to build was a Tempest cabinet. I'm gonna have to study your build closely because I want it to be as badass as possible. Thank you and keep up the hard work, .....when you get the time.

[Edgecrusher]

I have an older 19" from before remote controls which I haven't gotten into yet but I've been wondering if I can RGB mod. This just may be the answer...

[Edgecrusher]

There's a lot of content in this thread so maybe I missed it; but I was gonna suggest, if you intend to make this a how to, maybe start with a list of all the components required and maybe a general cost you expect for everything...so people know what their getting into

[abispac]

There's a lot of content in this thread so maybe I missed it; but I was gonna suggest, if you intend to make this a how to, maybe start with a list of all the components required and maybe a general cost you expect for everything...so people know what their getting into

Yeah mr bobby13 ,  i though about this too, because maybe is my bad english, but so far i understand this, you need a consumer set that its close to a certain levels in the yo, then you need to rewire the yoke, may i ask how?, then you need to buy some parts, like a vectorchassis, and the interface betwen the monitro and the pi, witch is a usb something right? sounds easy enough, the hardest part would be rewire the yoke?

[bobbyb13]

Forgive me how scattered some of this is still.
I am really only executing on other people's work, some of which is documented elsewhere and some which isn't really- and not in thorough definitive detail for any of it really.

So that I'm not posting erroneous or vague info I don't want to list anything as a how to until I REALLY know that what I am posting works- like what I did with the Pi setup portion in this thread thus far.

I'm getting there with this project so I will begin a specific 'build yourself a monitor part' when I learn all I can about how to screw it up first.

I'm close with the monitor (with three separate ones actually- all using different components even) but when I get there you will know if you are checking back here because I will do a step by step on that too.

If enough people care the info can get recompiled in a more flowy fashion later I suppose.

This thread just looks like how my mind works as I run through engineering on the fly I suppose.

[abispac]

Thank you kind, will be keeping an eye on this one.

[Edgecrusher]

Cool.
I don't want to come off as being critical at all. If anyone understands having ten thousand things going on at one time and not having enough time for even a fraction of them, it would be me.

I'll wait patiently. Well, I'll try... Maybe I can even study up and eventually be of some help at some point. who knows.

 

[bobbyb13]

Not at all!
Criticism is welcome when people have some that is useful.

If you really want to build yourself a vector machine then posts #14, 22, 32, and 33 are the real meat of this thread.

If you read those, give a good look to the docs and videos I link to, and buy yourself the parts then you are most of the way there.

I spent a free morning rearranging components in this cabinet to suit some good cooling so I will update this again when I can get a chance here soon.

[bobbyb13]

Trying again.

Had a chance to get back to the machine and turn it on after rearranging things finally.
I pulled most of the parts out first to have a good uncluttered think on it.
The result is...



Wound up leaving the power supplies, DVG, and the Pi in the same places and swapped the HV unit and deflection board positions.

Makes for a better cooling layout, keeps those parts as far away from each other and the tube as possible and the parts still remain on the shelf I made for the stuff.

It also allowed me to turn the deflection board on its side and possibly gain a little in velocity as regards the heat being evacuated through the cooling fins.

The 120VAC fan I got is kind of noisy (and may get replaced if it is distracting once I have the bezel area built and in) but it certainly does what I wanted it to.
I drilled a hole in the shelf to allow the fan to draw from wherever it likes and gave it a good angle to shoot into but still across the heatsink.
The other bonus is I got to add a block of ply underneath the heatsink to carry the weight of it on its own.

Prior to component rearrangement and install of the fan I was seeing 185 F on the heat sink next to one of the transistors.

In that same spot the temp is now down to 95 F.
I expected a good drop in temp, but wasn't expecting one that dramatic.

Certainly worth the effort!
I'm stoked.

Audio amp should be here by the weekend I think and after that is done then it's time to start on the bezel extravaganza.

Still haven't decided if I care enough to bother sanding the cabinet again and getting a more proper coat of flatter finish paint on the outside.

[Zebidee]

Bobby, just read through your entire thread for a second time! Starting to make more sense now (kinda!  ).

I'm feeling inspired. So, looks like I'll have to make room for my own vector project, as soon as I can make room in my shed and life, while people like you are focused on it and able to help. Wish I could work on such things as fast as you do.

I messaged Barry, a long time ago, asking to be put on his list for the vector kits. Looks like I'd better dust-off my FB account and try him again.

Though I do understand the reasons, still finding it bizarre that you need 2 x 24v PSUs for both positive and negative voltages. Ah well, whatever works

Love your work, neat n tidy, and my only vaguely helpful suggestion for today is that I think you could put the USB_DVG thing on the other side - that way you won't have to run that VGA cable across the back, and it won't get in your way when you are fiddling around inside.

[Xiaou2]

One time I bought some AC fans from a Surplus place.  They were like 1.5" thick, with 3 large blades.  I believe they came out of
those ancient + massive  HP Laserjet printers.   They were loud AF...  but they also moved about 30 times as much air as any PC
fan that Id ever owned.  I shoved a carrot into the blades to see how bad it might be to run them without the Grills... and it had
the power to actually chop the carrot clean, like a food processor.

 If you want a quieter fan.. you would probably better to use a DC based PC fan.  You can use one of the larger diameter fans,
for even less noise + greater overall air movement.


 Most arcades were noisy enough, especially when you are playing at a decent volume.. that you would never hear
the cooling fans that were inside of them.

[Zebidee]

Some fans are quieter than others. Sometimes they just get a little old/worn, and sometimes they get a bit dry and just need a little lubrication.

You could always lifting up an edge of the sticker in the middle, and putting a few drops of fine motor oil into the sleeve/bearings.

[bobbyb13]

This thing is new and all metal and the blades are really moving some air so I imagine what I am hearing is just blade noise.

I does kind of remind me of a model plane I had when I was 10!

Suspect that it will get a bit quieter with time and I am going to get to install the audio system tonight it appears and then maybe get going on the bezel shroud by this weekend so it may be a non issue anyway.

Get building everybody!
I think I'm catching up to some of you!
 

[Zebidee]

You can do a lot with fans. Always easy to swap in a different fan that might be quieter/larger/flashier whatever.

If you go DC for the fan, you can throttle the speed by installing a resistor (appropriately rated) on the active input line. This both limits current and creates a simple voltage divider (in this case the other "resistor" is the impedance in the fan's coils). You can (for example, with a 12v fan) throttle 12v input down to around ~7v and the fan will still turn, just slower (and therefore quieter).

The trick is getting the right resistor value. I suggest good-old trial-and-error, because every fan will have different impedance characteristics anyway. Also, the coil's impedance (R) goes up as current increases, so it's R value will decrease as the resistor value increases. Because of this, you can't measure the coil impedance directly with a DMM (AFAIK), but once you install a "test" resistor you can easily calculate the impedance value by using the known or observable values (voltages, resistor) and applying normal voltage divider rules (or one of those online calculators if you are lazy like me).

You could even use a potentiometer (pot), at least until you know what resistor value you want. I guess the same logic applies to AC fans, but doing this kinda thing with DC feels safer.

Technically it is also possible to use the fan's third input (if it has one) to throttle fan speed, but this requires a logic controller as it works by switching the fan on/off really fast. You could probably control fan speed by using the Pi itself (but I don't know very little Pi lore), or perhaps an Arduino, but (ironically) that all sounds much more complicated to me.

Sorry for the long post, hope it is relevant

[Falken Hawke]

If you want to get ambitious, a honeycomb composite "cowling" or shroud can be made to go around the fan and heatsink along with ducting to redirect the blade noise to the bottom of the cabinet.  basically the same thing turbine engines have that makes them louder front and back versus side-to-side.

Assuming it's like my 386 PC I installed an AC fan on 'cause it's what I had,  it's blade noise.

[bobbyb13]

My "stufff some foam around somewhere" plan is beginning to feel a bit provincial at this point.
 

Once I had the cheap little 2.1 channel amp I got in place and fired it up the fan noise nearly disappeared from a player's perspective.
By the time I get the bezel shroud done the noise will be a non-issue.

Which is good, because there are enough issues yet still as it is!

I actually had to shift layout here AGAIN because once I finally got to play the silly thing with everything powered up in place it was alarming to see how much vibration in the screen image the fan was producing somehow.

I thought it might be a power supply ripple type of issue and powered the fan from outside the cabinet, tried with an isolation transformer too and still had major image shake.
That freakin 120VAC fan is generating quite the emf to get spinning apparently.

Maybe next time it is worth getting a 12VDC supply and fan and maybe there won't be a 2000mg of caffeine kind of jitter to the image with the fan closer to the tube.

I dropped the shelf and deflection board down a few inches- which of course necessitated dropping the power supply shelf to the floor, which also made it necessary to shift that two gang junction box over alao.
And move the degauss board.
 

At least the effort netted the desired result.

Next is the craziness that was going on in the vector drawing- which I actually figured out.

[Zebidee]

I actually had to shift layout here AGAIN because once I finally got to play the silly thing with everything powered up in place it was alarming to see how much vibration in the screen image the fan was producing somehow.

I thought it might be a power supply ripple type of issue and powered the fan from outside the cabinet, tried with an isolation transformer too and still had major image shake.
That freakin 120VAC fan is generating quite the emf to get spinning apparently.

Maybe next time it is worth getting a 12VDC supply and fan and maybe there won't be a 2000mg of caffeine kind of jitter to the image with the fan closer to the tube.

Unsurprisingly, you are correct! Fans, like pretty much every electric motor, work by creating a fast-switching electromagnetic field. Given how close the fan is (was?) to the CRT neck, some direct interference is not surprising

Would be interesting to see if the "jitters" disappear as you simply move the fan further away from the neck.

That, and yeah, there could very well be an EMF effect from the AC motor causing electrical interference on the mains line as well. Iso transformer on monitor won't necessarily stop this. However, a line filter (to isolate the fan EMF) may help, is what it is designed to do. Line filters are cheap, but so are DC fans.

Oh oops, you don't have a 12VDC power supply! Not to worry, there are plenty of 24v fans available to suit your needs, and you already have oodles of 24v power. I just did a quick search and this popped up for < $10:

GDSTIME 80mm x 80mm x 25mm 24V Brushless DC Cooling Fan
https://www.amazon.com/GDSTIME-80mm-25mm-Brushless-Cooling/dp/B00N1Y3T9G

It doesn't advertise itself as "quiet", but read the reviews, it seems to be pretty quiet. It even comes with a protective grill and nuts/bolts.

[bobbyb13]

I was afraid to connect anything else to the power suppllies feeding the deflection board or I would have gone exactly that route with a 24VDC fan!
Been terrified to blow something up here all along really.

And it isn't even so much the $$ but the fact that these kits are still kind of in the unobtanium kind of realm still currently.
I waited over a year for a USB-DVG unit (even after I had paid for it) and I have been on the wait list for an Amplifone repro kit for longer than that at this point.

Not to fault any of the crew involved in making these things mind you, they all have busy (and sometimes rather complicated it appears?!) lives of their own to lead, but when you are obsessed with this stuff like I am it is unnerving to wait so long- and to sometimes think it is never going to happen anyway.

I had experimented with the fan positioning and orientation before I decided on the current layout.
Literally just waved it around in the cabinet with it plugged in and running to see how it affected the image on the monitor.

Even tried to Faraday cage the stupid thing in its original spot to no avail.

I found how close I could get it to the tube without any drama with the hot and floating technique and then mounted it another inch further away than that even.
And so we have composition #3.



Hopefully the only thing that moves from here is the audio amp, so it can be played with through the eventual coin door.

With the thousand bpm shake managed it was time to address the broken vector weirdness which randomly appeared once I had nearly everything else sorted out.

Full disclosure:
I have tried three different rewound yokes on this thing so far.
They have very similar values in terms of resistance but produce different quality images for sure.

One was the original to the tube.
Sadly I pulled a bunch of correction strips off of it before I realized that maybe they should stay and I have had major convergence issues with that one since.
Maybe some day I can get it back to good, but dialing in a yoke is pretty heady stuff that I still know almost nothing about yet.

Many of the numerous documents I have found on purity and convergence tuning speak as if it is a very scientific and systematic process that is not difficult.
Ha-
Of all the esoteric themes in this hobby yoke gymnastics are easily the most arcane.

Another fellow CRT maniac here (who is far beyond me in knowledge and skill) has a bucket of old yokes from tubes he has scavenged and last I was at his house we dug through it with an inductance meter and found a few with promising values- so I rewound one of those.
The mounting collar is kinda beat up so it is hard to get the thing to stay seated really well but I tried it anyway.
It too produces a fairly un-converged image.

The kit that I bought second hand from a gent in Canada (although I don't believe it was used- maybe not even tested out) came with a rewound yoke- and that is what is currently (haha) on the tube.
The convergence still gets a bit wonky as you get to the outer perimeter of the screen, but during game play there is really no discernable issue thankfully.

And so even as good as I could get this last yoke to look there was still some weird stuff going on with the image on screen.
Such as....


What was really weird to me at first about these bizarre tails to some of the images is that they don't all head in the same direction or have any consistency to them at all really, but after I thought about it this makes sense.

The image is being drawn by the guns which are aimed at the center of the screen and then the beam is deflected to the proper position and then lit up when it is in the right spot, but it is not as if the beams need to draw one image, go back to center, and then get bent around again to draw the next.

If you crank up the screen adjustment on the HV unit (lower dial on the 'flyback transformer'- which it isn't in this case- even if it looks like one to you) you can actually see the path of the beams as they are flying around the screen- and then these weird tails on images make sense.
It is a pretty impressive sight really.



What I was looking at is the beam getting lit up ('Z' axis voltage in Atari-speak) before it actually got to the location it was supposed to be drawing something.
So the deflection board is (very!) slightly slower in bending the beam than it is in lighting it up- and hence the timing being off just that little bit makes for a line where you don't want one.

Enter Slew Rate.

The USB-DVG has a menu all on its own, accessed by a button on the board itself.
The first thing you see when you access it is this.



As my world expands here I am starting to figure out what all this crap is now.

The first line is an obvious one, as it lists all of the original vector monitors here (G-08, WG6100, Amplifone, etc...) and selecting one automatically loads the settings below for what works best with a healthy original monitor.
I selected the Amplifone one for this to begin with since that is what Barry cloned here with this kit but this is where the nuances of this hole thing begin to get tricky.

Note that I said that those default settings are for a "healthy original monitor."
My boards and tube are fine BUT, this is NOT an original yoke- and this is where it starts getting sticky and this is all finally making sense to me now.

My rewound yoke does not act EXACTLY like an original Amplifone one because the outer yoke coils, although having been rewound to get close, are still a slightly different inductance/resistance than original (so are the inner ones for that matter) and therefore they DO NOT deflect at exactly the same rate as original ones do.
Cranking up the Slew Rate allows the beam to get knocked around faster (it allows a faster rate of voltage change to the deflection to more precise) and therefore get to where it is supposed to be in time for the 'Z' axis to get lit up at the right time and draw the images properly.

Neat, yeah?!

Even just a few ticks of bumping up the rates yielded great results.
Behold!



I'm still trying to figure out exactly how the "Jump Rate" and "Beam Delay" settings affect what I am seeing.

Anyone who knows more about electronics here please chime in!

[pbj]

Looks fine to me, vector games were always slightly screwy looking.  Stop being picky and move along.

[bobbyb13]

You are absolutely right of course pbj, but it is fun to see how all this crap works and figure out how to get it to look really good.
There is still some pulsing in the menus and other weird stuff that I will probably never sort out.
What is excellent is that none of the stuff that was really distracting (like the cute little pigtails) ever seem to occur when the games are running.

The more I learn about it the more amazed I am that somebody could figure this ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- out to begin with.
And then the speed at which all this stuff occurs will forever blow my mind.

I'm stoked really.
This thing plays Cosmic Chasm, Tempest, and Tac/Scan well and it looks awesome.

What is nice about this really is that the next vector machine will be considerably less of a pain in the ass!

[Zebidee]

I quite liked how the settings screen looked, before you adjusted the slew rate. That font be crazy man!

Thanks for the pic showing the beam paths - a penny just dropped, somewhere in my brain. Now I know exactly why they are called "vector" monitors.

[bobbyb13]

Vector monitors are quite cool things.
I'm looking forward to building a few more machines that use them now.

Encouraged to see that even with the cabinet rearragnement to accomodate the fan's crazy emf I still have great heat sink temps.



Even with that massive block of aluminum I think the fan is a must to not have to worry about roasting components on the deflection board over time.
So after I moved everything else around to accomodate the audio (I built a little box for the woofer I had for it- just for fun) and moved the shelf I accidentally put in my own way for getting the kick panel off I think I have finally arrived at the final cut.

Time to add a little screen to the bottom vent slot and then pop a hole somwhere in the top (or maybe the backside transom panel?) to finalize the cooling flow route.

At this point it is really fun to play and produces an image that is damn sharp and has no issues during gameplay at least.

Winning!



Next is the bezel and shroud.
Still on the fence about dropping the screen angle back to my best guess at what was original before I get started on that last piece.
Nothing to gain from it for me but it would be cool to be able to reproduce something with dimensions that would be useful to others in the future.

[Zebidee]

Bobby, I think you've already made a lot of people happy, just by posting this stuff.

So angle the screen however you want, make yourself happy

Very damn nice indeed, I am feeling inspired.

[Mike A]

You went through all of this trouble.

Get it right.

I know that you are itching to do that anyways.

I know a guy who has a Cosmic Chasm.

I will reach out and see if he can give me an angle measurement.

[bobbyb13]

That would be outstanding Mike.
I can make a few other people happy too if I'm able to make a 1:1 repro of that thing.

You went through all of this trouble.

Get it right.

I know that you are itching to do that anyways.

I know a guy who has a Cosmic Chasm.

I will reach out and see if he can give me an angle measurement.

[Zebidee]

I can make a few other people happy too if I'm able to make a 1:1 repro of that thing.

This is why I keep coming back here - people helping other people with little things, so the bigger things turn out right.

[Arroyo]

Bobby,

Excellent work all around.  One thing to note is, you may be having some trouble with the yoke and convergence (particularly the further you are from the center of the screen) as you have a 51cm (20 inch) tube.  Not to send you down a rabbit hole but the deflection angle of the ferrite cores would most likely be slightly off compared to a standard 48cm (19inch) tube.  If it were me I’d work with the yoke that came with it as it was designed for that tube size.

[bobbyb13]

Absolutely correct Scott.
After all of my agonizing about using the original yoke the great irony is the one that's on it right now and looks the best is from a different tube, and I don't know exactly which tube even.
It's possible that in the future I may decide that it needs to be perfect but at this point it looks so good that this one may just remain as it is and what I have learned here will just be applied to the next ones.

Of course had I seen your caveat about not messing with the other magnets on the yoke in time to begin with I probably wouldn't even be in this spot!
 

There are still a few details for me to learn about how all this vector hardware works and how it can be adjusted but as a first run of sorting it out I can call this machine a success at least.

This thread may go quiet for a bit while I hope for bezel and shroud details to materialize (thank you again Mike for the offer of a shot at it.)
As this go round has a fairly exhaustive breakdown of getting the Pi and DVG as well as the controls working I may just leave this thread as a reference for that and use the next build for more monitor detail.

It's been a fun journey so far no matter what!

[Mike A]

I put out a request to go see the cab and measure anything you want me to.

[bobbyb13]

I put out a request to go see the cab and measure anything you want me to.

You rock
As usual
 

[bobbyb13]

For the sake of completeness, as I started working with this crazy consumer tube that I was hoping I could turn into a vector monitor, I will continue with details of that here- although this monitor will be going in a horizontal cabinet build.

Because I had never seen a bonded yoke before this thing freaked me out to begin with.
Not just that, but the pin protector/alignment socket glued to the neck was so long that I couldn't get the neckboard to seat all the way onto the pins.
I had been nervous that I was looking at something that also may not have the neck pinout that would match the Amplifone clone parts that Barry is now building.

Thankfully, we have tubular.

https://tubular.atomized.org/

If you are working with CRTs, be they legit arcade monitor tubes or neglected consumer crap you found on the side of the road, this site is awesome.

A gent over on klov built it and it is stunning how many tubes he has cross referenced on this thing.
You literally just type in the identifier from the sticker on your tube and if that one has been cataloged it will return a page with pretty much anything you need to know about what you have- including the original data sheet submitted to E.I.A.
Remarkable.

Even more remarkable is that this particular random tube was actually in there!
After digging though the numerous pages in there I found the pinout for the tube and found that it was correct for my needs.
Whew.

I carefully pried the plastic pin alignment piece off the neck (be careful so you don't crack the thing and let the atmosphere into your tube!) and cut 1/4" off the tip so that I could try to get my neckboard to seat properly- and, success.



I was ready to get the supplies wired up and connect everything and try this out.
Since I am working with a bonded yoke and had only removed the outer ferrites to erwind them here, I figured it prudent to give this setup a trial run before I started gluing/epoxying things back together, so I left the magnet wire as it was sitting and just connected the two clips to hold the ferrites together and keep them loosely in place on the yoke.

This deflection board I have here doesn't have a vga connector like the one in the Cosmic cabinet here does, so I needed to make a harness to go from the vga out on the DVG board to the .156 Molex kk connector on the deflection board.
In case you are doing this and wondered what the pinout was for building a harness, here you go:



Really straightforward, but it is so tight that I need glasses to actually get the thing soldered up.
Satisfying when you get it done though.  I'm nervous about things shorting so I pretty much always use heatshrink.



And then with everything connected and my seperate 24VDC supplies wired up to feed the board + and - power I fired it up and got...



More success.

It is important to note that as long as you have your deflection coil wires paired properly it doesn't matter if you guess properly on which is X and which is Y, because the menu on the DVG allows you to swap axes and flip the image to get what you want to see on the screen.

Of course that was yesterday.
When I tried to fire it up again, I got nothing- or only a little red dot in the middle of the screen and the spotkiller LED on the deflection board on- lit solid.

I saw lights on both HV unit and deflection boards so I wondered what happened- and then it occurred to me that I was missing an LED on the deflection board at the moment and then it hit me.
There isn't any power going to the negative side of the deflection board.
I had a light for the + side but the - side one was out.
And so I checked the fuse.



Whew- again.
Damn cheap ass fuses!

Gave it another whirl and was relieved to see this.



So it looks like this tube is going to work as a vector monitor.

One other fun thing I discovered in the wealth of info in that crazy datasheet from tubular.atomized

This is actually a 110 degree angle tube!

I'm stoked it works.  This is awesome.

Maybe I'll work on finding the correct coin door for a Cosmic Chasm cabinet now.

[pbj]

It’s really cool to see all this vector action around here lately.  I’m not sure what it says about me that I have that VGA pin out previously memorized.  I may still have the old radio shack hand tool you used to plug individual pins into those connectors.

So you’re doing Star Wars next…?

[bobbyb13]

It’s really cool to see all this vector action around here lately.  I’m not sure what it says about me that I have that VGA pin out previously memorized.  I may still have the old radio shack hand tool you used to plug individual pins into those connectors.

So you’re doing Star Wars next…?

Vector stuff is proving to be fun to learn too.
I wasn't aware that there was so much going on with reproducing vector happy hardware.
I can see that the guys doing it don't enjoy the environment on that OTHER sometimes less congenial arcade enthusiast site, but I've been surprised that they aren't promoting their stuff here.

This is the real venue for that sort of stuff, isn't it?!

I'm beginning to understand enough of this silly esoteric crap to actually know a few meaningful things here and there so it is gettingless scary and more fun.
And so what if I blow ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- up here and there occassionally?
 

So you saw this coming pbj?
I was actually working on getting the yoke functional last night.

In the grand scheme of arcade history it's not like it is an amazing game with a ton of depth to it comparatively these days, but Star Wars is a maximum arcade nostalgia one for me so it gets a panel for the horizontal machine to come for sure.

I think that will have two swappable panels to get all the games I want to play going and still not be a hideous mess of controls or something that I never change out.
Those panels will be the same size as the ones for the Missile Command MAME box too so that they can be shared between the two cabinets and therefore better utilized.

Even if I only swap them around once a year I'll feel good about it and it is another fun design challenge to get it to all work.

That cabinet is going to be a less iconic shape than the others I've built so far though, but still appropriate in that it suits a number of the games I want to play on it.

A design concession based on the desire to have the Star Wars yoke panel still work with another that is mostly buttons on the same machine.

Down the rabbit hole-

[Mike A]

Keep this ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- coming.

[bobbyb13]

Open the sewer grate!
 

I should probably start a different thread for the Gravitar/Black Widow/Space Duel/all-the-other-games Atari stuffed into that shape cabinet build for this big now vector hijacked tube.

And clear your schedules and save the $$ for some ZapCon 9 next March y'all.

[Xiaou2]

You should try to make a Motion-Cabinet for Starwars.

 I heard that there was a fully functional prototype of such a cabinet version of the game.  Someone I knew had gotten lucky
enough to play it.. and he couldnt stop talking about how cool it was.

[Zebidee]

Easy way to solder those VGA headers, and many other things, is to stick them and the wires down with some blu-tac or tape. (usually stick them to a small piece of hardwood offcut, rather than the bench). Then you can have both hands free to solder. Trim the wire sheaths by about 3-4mm, no need to tin them first, just line them up and the little buckets make the soldering easy.

If you're having trouble with the smaller stuff, and aren't we all, an articulated desk lamp with a built-in magnifier is really handy. I used mine all the time. You can get them with stands or clamps, and there are USB varieties.

[abispac]

Owwwwwwww crap, i was getting an itch to build a vector monitor based on what i saw on this topic and arroyos topic as well, so i started to look for some info, since i can source cosumer tvs real easy and cheap, as well as real arcade monitors, but then money came to play, 350 dlls for the dsbdvg thingy? wow, and then 150 for the pi4, and what? 250 or more for the newish vector chassis, am i right? so you looking for a minimum of of 750 dlls.... and thats a minimum, i love this hobby to death, but i dont got that kind of money right now so sadly i would still have to keep watching. Good job bobby13

[bobbyb13]

It is NOT a cheap hobby.
Don't tell the wife.

Oh, and pinball is MUCH worse.

I'm grateful that those vga connectors have those little cupped terminals to solder to or I would be doomed.

If I built a motion rig it would be a sit down driver, but since I currently have two Rush 2049s and a mongrel Cruis'n I don't see that ever happening unless I open an arcade business out here.

Of course seeing that rig RandyT built makes me want to do it.

I think I may need to start another build thread while I'm waiting to sort out the bezel on this thing.

The horizontal build itchy is getting pretty scratchy.

And I DO have the monitor working and one of the control panels mostly built now-
 

[Zebidee]

if you discount the cost of the Pi (every cab needs a CPU of some kind), then a cost of up to ~$600 for a decent vector monitor setup isn't that terrible, especially if you are committed to the hobby. Certainly something you don't see every day.

[Arroyo]

This is actually a 110 degree angle tube!

Good stuff Bobby.  If you wanna double check you can look at the tube itself.  There should be an embossment in the glass indicating the size and angle of the tube.  The convention is diagonal length in inches followed by a V and then the degree of the tube.  So for yours if it is indeed a 110degree tube you should find 19V110.  Here is a conversation on the topic: https://forums.arcade-museum.com/threads/90-100-110-degree-how-do-i-know.309041/

Here is an example pulled from that thread:




Pulled from my thread for reference:

And so, my FIRST question would be what fuses have you settled on for power supply feeds?

As for the fuse.  Hard to be sure from you pic but I am going to assume that you have the fuses coming on the output side of your power supplies. I assume you are using these in an attempt to protect the electronics.  You shouldn't need any. 

If you look at the power supply from an Atari vector brick here:



What you'll note is that there is no fuse coming off the transformer to create the 50VAC power that is for the monitor (red arrow).   I'll show the connection to your power supplies in a second.

You'll see that there are fuses for the other power lines highlighted by the green arrows.  Specifically 10.6VDC, 36VAC, 6.1VAC.

If you follow back the 50VAC line (red arrows), you'll see they don't have a fuse (purple arrows).  There is a blue arrow pointing to a main fuse of 7Amps Slow Blow.  This is for the cab overall and for the 120VAC line that attaches for marquee lighting and other misc (fans and such). Highlighted by yellow arrow.

The 50VAC heads directly into the 15 pin Molex connector.  Specifically on pins 13 and 15 (14 is ground):



Follow the red arrows.


Then it comes into the Deflection board via the connector as shown here:



Note the pins 13 and 15 (red arrow) which heads into the deflection board where there is a set of 5amp Slow Blow fuses. The +24V and -24V are separated via the diodes (CR14-CR17) and smoothed with capacitors .  You can see the positive voltage, ground and negative voltage heading off to the High Voltage board through a connector as indicated by the Blue Arrow.

From here it is brought to the High Voltage PCB as indicated in the blue arrows, and you can see your +24V and -24V on the red arrows.



Here is a component view of the deflection board on an Amplifone where you can see the two 5 Amp Slow Blow fuses (highlighted in red arrows):



So the deflection board should have the fuses in place to handle the voltages coming in, hence why I said you don't need them coming off your power supplies. If it would make you more comfortable having something there then you can add redundancy with 5amp slow blows. If you want to really be comfortable than you could contact Shilmover on KLOV.

BTW - all of these schematics can be found online.  And if you don't know about ArcMissions site storing these (you can thank bperkins01 and MikeA), then you can find a lot of great stuff here:

https://arcarc.xmission.com

The above used schematics from Major Havoc for reference: https://arcarc.xmission.com/PDF_Arcade_Atari_Kee/Major_Havoc/Major_Havoc_SP-252_2nd_Printing.pdf

and from the Amplifone manual:   https://www.arcade-museum.com/manuals-monitors/Atari%20Monitor%20TM-239%201st%20Printing%20Amplifone%2019in%20and%2025in%20Color%20XY.pdf

[bobbyb13]

Outstanding info Arroyo, appreciate you taking that time.

I knew very little about electronics when I started on this hobby and learn best through specific examples like this still, so thank you.
 

Fear of blowing things up to begin with (when I knew even less than I do now!) made me want to fuse the power inputs.
Man did I go through a lot of 3 amp fast blow fuses- and continue to think I ruined something.
And that was because the only info I could find about it anywhere was difficult to find to begin with (and on facebook?!) and turned out to be wrong- of course.

It is the primary reason I started this thread actually, to start the conversation here and hopefully catalog some helpful info for others in the future.

Original vector hardware was really finicky and not robust and so many who talk about the stuff speak in hushed grave tones with stories of component meltdowns and unsalvageable monitors.
Turns out they are less complicated than raster monitors.

Appears to me that issues with original ones were mostly inadequate transistor cooling, tired power supplies, and video input signal voltage spikes, so if you bulletproof those you can have a reliable monitor.

When you look at what you and I are putting together these issues have been well addressed so it will be interesting to see what we get for longevity.

These new reproduction parts are better in nearly every important way from what I can see.

I need to check that tube embossing.
It's a big one though, so it is going to be a weird number!

[bobbyb13]

To confirm what I thought I read in the E.I.A. registration document for this TV,  tube embossment shows...

25 V 110

Maybe was a blessing that this thing had a bonded yoke.
Not like anything else I could find was going to work well with this tube anyway.

The upper left hand corner has some convergence weirdness at the very outside corner, really only noticeable in menu borders and test screens.
Still looks really good in gameplay somehow.

It will be interesting to see if playing with magnet strips stuck somewhere on the tube can fix that, since yoke position or ring adjustments are completely out of the question in this instance.

Yet another thing that I have yet to find a well done "How- To" on-
Purity and convergence.

I've read a few things that gave me huge confidence in my ability to tune up an image, and in practice I get little to nothing for results.
Disheartening really, since I would like to get it better than 'good enouugh.'

[Zebidee]

There are plenty of CRT convergence setup guides and videos. Problem is, they sometimes leave you feeling more confused.

For me, I find the best approach is to think of it as three phases to perform & complete in sequence, before moving onto the next: "purity, static convergence, and dynamic convergence". If you don't do the steps sequentially and in order things tend to get messy.

Purity phase means getting colour right/balanced. Input a white signal, or use a screen or solid colour red/green/blue, then move the yoke back/forth and/or the first pair of rings (closest to front, two magnets) to get a solid full-screen of colour/white). After this phase, if you moved the yoke, you can put back your rubber wedges and tighten it up again.

Static Convergence phase is about bringing red & blue together. Input a crosshatch pattern (turn off green if you like). Adjust the second pair of rings (middle, 4 magnets.)

Dynamic Convergence means bringing the green together with the red & blue. Use a crosshatch pattern and adjust the third ring pair (closest to back, 6 magnets).

The term "dynamic convergence" also includes a bunch of other later-stage convergence adjustments, mostly for picture edge, such as tweaking pots for pincushion, linearity, hourglass etc, adjustments in service menus, and so forth. I like to think of this extra pot-fiddling as an additional "tweaking convergence" phase.

To help understand all this, remember that the cathode ray guns are (usually) lined up R-G-B (or is it B-G-R?) such that GREEN is in the middle.

You have a TPG, it is great tool for this.

Unfortunately my experience is all based on raster monitors, not vector & any differences.

[bobbyb13]

There ARE many- and they are all just vague enough to make the whole thing impossible to do well- after even multiple attempts.
 

Vector stuff is different, but mercifully the menu that Chad made for this setup includes a host of great test patterns all with the ability to swap colors throughout.

I wish someone who knows well how to do it would put together something with pics or video, including caveats and explaining what is going on when things aren't going properly.

Merely a list of steps (even a thorough one!) on how to do it is simply inadequate for learning how to do this.

I'm sharper than the average bowling ball and fairly patient, and I still can't get anything to look right!

[Zebidee]

The CRT still uses the same purity/convergence rings right? So you'd just move through the three phases? Guess the next question is, what test patterns can you use?

[bobbyb13]

This is a good question, because with some of the patterns everything appears perfect and then with some images, there is weirdness in the upper left corner of the screen- and then that doesn't appear to show up in any of the games I have run.
Still a mystery.

The CRT still uses the same purity/convergence rings right? So you'd just move through the three phases? Guess the next question is, what test patterns can you use?

Well I got a coin door to use for this thing that didn't cost $250 but it is just a shell and I have no idea what parts it takes.
Is this a CoinCo door anyone?



The other thing is that this does not need to have fully functionaly coin mechs and the rest either, so I would be happy to fabricate something to receive a tasteful coin up button/switch that actually LOOKS like a regular old coin reject button.

Hoping for wisdom and suggestions here anyone!

Still trying to mentally work through building a bezel for this thing.

The original has a rectangular box at the bottom and then the triangular boxes on the sides- and then yet another panel at the back.
I left space to be able to include these as well as the backlit panels that the original uses but this part is a bit intimidating actually.

[bobbyb13]

And so before I even got the first iteration of this done it is off to version 1.1
Or maybe 2.0?

So I learned of what I thought was a very cool project being worked on by two guys a hell of a lot smarter than me and since using their genius was appropriate here (and I could learn a whole bunch of other fun stuff while I was at it) it became time to start acquiring some original machine parts.
Explains where I've been for a bit maybe?

It also gives me a reason to use the pile of monitor parts I have been assembling for a few years now and see if I can get another type of vector tube fired up.

If you know the original game this stuff is for you can probably guess before you see it running.

Harness.


Not complete, but I can build the other parts.

Brick.  Holy crap are these things heavy.



Super crusty but the proper one- so doesn't matter.
The transformers practically never fail and the other crap I will replace anyway.

Power supply.  This one had a runaway +5V issue in its former life so needed a little love before I could get it running what it needed to.
Not to mention it wasn't fully populated for all the voltages I needed either so it took a bit of fun learning to get it functional.



On to the central part of the whole thing.
Now this set I had stumbled onto a while ago and at a glance it looked like the right vintage to be what I wanted for this all along really.
Vintage 1985- straight outta Bloomington.



Disassembly of one this old was really fun.
Crazy what it took to build a regular old TV set back then.
Look at all these individual components!



I felt a bit guilty for gutting the thing but it didn't run and was going to the recycler otherwise and I have a plan for the case- which I am saving for another fun project.

The best part was looking up the details on the tube and discovering that it is a dead ringer for a 19VLUP22 but has a different yoke.
The other monitor parts I have been collecting for quite some time.

I got a 6100 deflection and neck board which happened to have been rebuilt back in 1983- and then sat on a shelf since apparently!

As I am starting from scratch with this particular monitor anyway, getting an original monitor frame and side pieces is pretty much out of the question for me here, and the most problematic part of an original WG 6100 appears to possibly be the chassis bottlecap transistors as it is then it was a no-brainer to get an Alan-1 transistor upgrade kit because it is a one shot solution for me in this instance.

While I was continuing to pile together stuff to pull this whole assembly off miraculously an original unused 6100 high voltage unit comes up for sale.

Done.  I now have all the parts to FrankenWeenie mysellf a WG6100- INCLUDING a small dot pitch tube.
Vector glow nirvana.

I had been agonizing over how to deal with the neckboard bit since the original 6100 is a CR-24 (?!#$) and I had not idea what the hell that was- until I opened this thing up.
The neckboard in this was a surprise.  Newer saw one in mulitple pieces before.



And the cherry on top of the fine dot pitch tube find was this.



Plug n play with the neckboard I had.

I got the brick back together and confirmed I had proper voltages and got the monitor parts all piled on the rolling bench for the scary eventuality of having to actually energize this thing and then discovered that the LM305 regulator on my AR-II was spent and had gone from not even putting out 5V to pumping out 14V in under a minute.

Glad I decided to check ONE last time before I plugged this sexy board I got into the harness.

Back to the waiting game for parts-

[bobbyb13]

Gotta love the USPS in my hood.

So I got a few LM305 voltage regulators because it seemed like that was the crispy element on my AR-II.
Cutting the old one out sucked.
A tenacious little bug looking thing that Atari must have felt needed to be shoved as close to the pcb as possible for soldering.
No big deal when fighting two legs, but when you get to this many it is a real PITA.

While I was waiting for those to arrive I discovered that the main board harness connector was cracking.
Old parts sent to me from a friend in Canada to the rescue!



If I don't go one wire at a time with this kind of crap I'm sure to screw it up royally.
I was still paranoid even doing it like this even.

So after I got through that it seemed like I was ready to do something real and put the whole mess together and power it up to see what explodes first.
50 shades of paranoia.

I have had such drama with ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- smoking or having things not work at all that every time I get to this point it is terrible blend of anticipation and cringing.
I lost track of how many times I checked voltages and every connector.



I figured this freakshow merited having something close to an original spinner now (which I couldn't find anywhere for quite some time) so I kind of built one.
New ball bearing wearing frame from arcadeshop, original dial base, enocder, cap and shaft from Stephen of arcadefixit fame, and repro dial and a whole big pile of $$ later I have what should work for that.

And the moment of truth...
I flipped the switch, heard the fan on the Alan-1 transistor block fire up, watched the spot-killer LED on the deflection board go on- then off! and a few seconds later-



Holy ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- I have a functional 6100.
Well, mostly functional.

No frakkin red.

Of course I'm getting less scared of messing with things at this point since I'm getting comfortable with soldering out and in components that I have blown up through sophmoric decisions, so why not play a little?!
This was a lot less dramatic than that because only trying to adjust the individual color drive pots on the neck board led me to the diagnosis of a cracked trim pot, unsurprisingly on the red drive.



Not used to pots that look like these things but I happened to have a 500 ohm one of a style I could make fit so what the hell.
Why wait for one in the mail?!

A little time huffing solder fumes, reassemble and paranoia check everything again- twice- even though I hadn't touched anything but the neck board- and give it another go.



Hot damn!

Now, I have to say that the first setup I built for this, using what is now Barry S's Amplifone monitor project and just any old 19" tube with a properly rewound yoke, the now difficult/impossible to acquire USB-DVG, and Mario's brilliance with the Raspberry Pi AdvMame version and Chad's vector menu worked and looked great- it is still what happily resides in the horizontal cabinet I still have to finish.

But, this current monstrosity, using a fine dot pitch tube, rewound yoke, Franken6100, and ArcadeJason's multiboard...?

WOW is this image crisp.

Having not played Tempest on an original machine in decades I was MORE than satisfied with what I had put together first for this cabinet, but the current iteration here is next level repro from my seat.

Granted, the software for this board (which Jason's co-conspirator Ralf is developing) is still in beta but holy crap is it something to behold already.

Looking forward to when Ralf has time to work on updates (which hopefully will include Cosmic Chasm and Tac/Scan in their arcade form- maybe even Quantum?!) because this is outstanding.

Time to stuff all this into the cabinet it will reside in.

If nothing else with this project I can say that my eyes have been opened as regards putting together a vector capable machine.
For a good number of years after getting into this hobby I figured proper vector game play was unobtainable for me here.

Buying any original ones out here is pretty much out of the question (I know of ONE original vector machine in the islands) and with all the mystique surrounding "a true vector monitor" I had bought into the ---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow--- that outside of original parts you are TSOL.

Not true.

It is entirely possible to build your own vector monitor with an old consumer tube, a properly rewound yoke, and some occassionally available (but also soon to be more currently available) parts.

If you really do want to build one with new updated tech then keep an eye on the site vectorheadarcade.

The site appears to be getting rebuilt as I'm typing but at some point you can get in line for all the parts you need to build an Amplifone clone (but better!) monitor.
Except the tube of course.
Barry just bought an amazing assortment of machinery to be able to really fire up the production line so hopefully soon he gets time to get started.

In the meantime go find yourself an old consumer tube with as LOW a horizontal resistance/inductance value as you can find.
My experience here tells me that a measurement even up to 2.0 ohms for the inner windings works.

You need to rewind the outer vertical coils anyway so their original values are largely irrelevant, unless you can find one that is already between 0.6 and 1.0 because then you could leave it alone.
If you follow the 100-120 wraps recommendation for rewinding the vertical ferrites you will get there though.

Vector joy is within the grasp.

[Zebidee]

In the meantime go find yourself an old consumer tube with as LOW a horizontal resistance/inductance value as you can find.
My experience here tells me that a measurement even up to 2.0 ohms for the inner windings works.
...

Vector joy is within the grasp.

Man I am impressed, though not sure if/when I can get some "vector joy" into my own grasp.

A quick tip for measuring these low-ohm horizontal yokes - make sure you zero-out the DMM/ohm meter first. Put the leads together until you get a 0.00 reading before measuring the yoke ohms. This can make up to 1-2 ohms difference in your measurements, which is obviously important in this context.

[bobbyb13]

Oh... it has been a while!

I got around to working on another vector project and had another look at this thread to update a few things that had changed since last I was at this.

I updated some info on a few posts in this thread (notably #32 and #36) to address the fact that I had noticed that links I used previously have since gone dead.

The updates keep a clear path to info necessary to make this build thing work still- and I would also add that Mario has posted a new advancemame USB-DVG image to work with a Raspberry Pi 5 !

I have one on order and will be giving it a shot as soon as those clowns at Amazon actually get it to me.

There are things to add to the horizontal build thread too.

And I really should start another thread with Robin's vstcm project (now that I have that well into production.)

Hope to see as many of you as possible at ZapCon in March!!