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Author Topic: Out of the loop about 6+ years on these and have questions about a couple things  (Read 2194 times)

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Customcade

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Current setup is a dynamo 39" display showcase cab running mamewah arcade vga card, win98 32-bit.

I have the aimtrak setup but have not used or updated the software or hardware in probably 6+ years.

It worked so so back then but recently got a extreme sensor bar hoping it is better then the ultimate sensor bar since it's claimed to handle larger screens.

I installed it and so far it's worse but going to try to use it's calibration software instead and see if I have better results but also the spot I had the sensor bar was up tip of the machine and why it may be so goofy now.

How do you guys mount your sensor bar just above your screen, this extreme ir bar bare PCB don't leave me much for any mounting options.

Also was wondering if there any homemade DIY CRT light gun kits or instructions to build a accurate one myself?

Just want a dual light gun setup that will work on my screen size, be accurate and able to cover the entire screen range.

Customcade

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Oh yeah the monitor is the big wells Gardner CRT 15/25Khz but have it set for 15khz as standard.

ZTylerDurden717

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If you want to build the guns from scratch look here for Gun4IR and purchase a $20 license so you can have access to all the instructions:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,161189.0.html

If you want to buy without DIY, check out the sinden light guns:
https://sindenlightgun.com/

If you have Wiimotes lying around want to save a buck and still have a great time, look here:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,167028.0.html

Basically, aimtrak didn't age well with the 2 point sensor bar.  The other solutions above are either 4 point sensors or something else that manages accuracy better.

BadMouth

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While I'm using Lichtknarre because I had Wii guns, only a few of us on BYOAC are using it and I don't think anyone has gone all the way through the process of getting two players working with a front-end and various emulators.  While I like that it is wireless, that also adds the need to pair over bluetooth before playing.

Gun4IR is probably the most plug and play accurate solution at this point.  I haven't used it, but it uses four LEDs, the author has posted video down the gun sights showing that it is line of sight accurate, and it's a standalone device so setup with various emulators is less complicated.
I was going to mention that you can buy guns already put together, but holy crap I didn't realize they were that expensive.  https://rpegelectronics.com/collections/all

I still haven't seen anyone post video showing true line of sight accurate gameplay with the Sinden Gun.

I've been messing with this stuff for over a decade.  Every previous non-CRT solution has failed to meet expectations for accuracy and distance to monitor.
It is nice to finally get some line of sight accurate solutions that feel like a light gun instead of a magic wand that moves a cursor.

Since you have a CRT, I also should have mentioned that the I/O PCB out of an America's Army machine will also work with original Happ arcade guns: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,138723.msg1433282.html#msg1433282
(If you can find one.)
It's questionable whether it will work with newer versions of Windows.  Works fine on XP, JollyWest got it running on 8.1.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2023, 06:59:26 am by BadMouth »

ZTylerDurden717

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I was going to mention that you can buy guns already put together, but holy crap I didn't realize they were that expensive.  https://rpegelectronics.com/collections/all


Yep.  I don't doubt the quality is good, but the price tag is crazy.  For this reason Lichtknarre is awesome imo.


I still haven't seen anyone post video showing true line of sight accurate gameplay with the Sinden Gun.


I've got em.  You can dial it in to true line of sight.  Not sure why it hasn't been posted yet in a video.  Probably cause they're pewing away instead.

« Last Edit: February 02, 2023, 11:19:24 am by ZTylerDurden717 »

RandyT

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While I'm using Lichtknarre because I had Wii guns, only a few of us on BYOAC are using it and I don't think anyone has gone all the way through the process of getting two players working with a front-end and various emulators.  While I like that it is wireless, that also adds the need to pair over bluetooth before playing.

Yeah, at the moment, any application which requires mouse input will not work w/ 2 players and Lichtknarre.  MAME, or anything else which can utilize an analog stick device for absolute cursor positioning should work fine for two players with the vJoy plugin.  The other shortcoming is that even for one player mouse input, certain software which requires RAW input will not currently work with it (but I have not found this to be too limiting, given the number of emulator options available.)  It's still in beta, and the author of the software is actively looking for solutions to these specific situations.  I get the feeling, however, that any solution to this will ultimately require permanently disabling driver signing in the OS, so it may not be a great option in the end for the best 2-player compatibility on a "daily driver" machine.   

If overall better compatibility for 2-players is important, you don't care about wireless and the thought of building your own gun doesn't scare you, you probably won't currently find a better solution than Gun4IR.  The SAMCO solution may be good as well, as it uses the same underlying technology as the other two, but I get the, perhaps unfounded, feeling that it is currently less extensively developed than Gun4IR.   

The short of it is, as BadMouth wrote, thanks to developers of the above, not to mention everyone who has participated in fleshing out the technology before them, there are actually options now which can deliver a near true light-gun experience.

I also don't know an awful lot about the Sinden, but my take on that one is that it's theoretically possible to get closer to the screen, given that the solid screen borders provide an absolute continuous reference.  But this relies on overlays or program modifications to get the borders, and they are visible to both the player and the camera, along with all of the other displayed graphics present on the screen.  For this reason, I don't feel like it's a better option, either for visual aesthetics during gameplay or for accuracy, given the possible difficulties of accurately separating the border from the rest of the screen.  It's also more involved on the software side of things than the other solutions and is pretty pricey.  But if you don't want to have IR LEDs attached to your screen, it's the only decent solution which doesn't require them, and it may scale better to really large screens given what's involved in making the super high-output IR beacons required for the greater distances necessary.

*edit*  Here's a video showing some line of sight gameplay with the Sinden.  Seems like it does pretty well on this individuals setup...
« Last Edit: February 02, 2023, 02:47:37 pm by RandyT »

BadMouth

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I realize that I'm being argumentative, but at no point in that video does it show a view down the sights of the gun. 
He may be playing by line of sight, but the camera is to the side of the monitor so I have no idea if the shot is landing where the sights are pointed.   :hissy

I will take ZTylerDurden717's word for it though, being that he can has used all three and therefore is comparing it to known accurate options.

RandyT

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I realize that I'm being argumentative, but at no point in that video does it show a view down the sights of the gun. 
He may be playing by line of sight, but the camera is to the side of the monitor so I have no idea if the shot is landing where the sights are pointed.   :hissy

If you think about it logically, it would be nearly impossible to play "line of sight" decently, especially with a title like Point Blank, if the shots didn't land in a repeatable fashion consistent with where the gun is pointing.  Anything outside of that would be related to calibration to the physical sights on the gun, so I'm not sure why it would be necessary to specifically see a view from down the sights.  That is, unless you are questioning the ability to calibrate the gun...which is a rudimentary requirement and necessary for any of the devices.

Or am I missing something?  :cheers:

What drives me nuts is the number of videos extolling the accuracy of the different devices....all of which have the crosshairs on  :lol
« Last Edit: February 09, 2023, 11:51:13 am by RandyT »

ZTylerDurden717

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That is, unless you are questioning the ability to calibrate the gun...

Nah, it's simpler than that.  The video plainly doesn't show a view down the sights to prove accuracy.  He said it himself, he's being argumentative.  That's fine, better than doom-scrolling.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2023, 11:50:06 pm by ZTylerDurden717 »

RandyT

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Nah, it's simpler than that.  The video plainly doesn't show a view down the sights to prove accuracy.  He said it himself, he's being argumentative.  That's fine, better than doom-scrolling.

As someone who has had more than their share of guns, while it's nice to see, it's really not necessary.  Any video showing multiple games being played well, with no cross-hairs and clear indicators of where the shots are landing, are at least IMHO, proof enough of line-of-sight accuracy.  As I stated, it's really not possible to shoot well were this not the case, as anyone who has played with a badly calibrated gun (or a real one with a wallowed-out barrel) can testify.  While it is possible to do well with an offset shot pattern if you are good, even a great player will have problems with inconsistent shot placement due to linearity or other reasons.

Of course, it's still possible for good video to be a bit misleading with a system like this, as there are possibilities for interference from environmental or display related issues in certain situations.  But again, as I stated, the system seemed fine in that individual's setup.  I wouldn't hesitate to give the Sinden a go based on it, especially if I was unbothered by the on-screen border and the IR LEDs were a deal-breaker for me. :)

JayBee

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I was going to mention that you can buy guns already put together, but holy crap I didn't realize they were that expensive.  https://rpegelectronics.com/collections/all
I totally understand the feeling about Ray's premodded prices, but it's important to note that none of these are mass produced in china, they are all custom made by hand, with original mint condition guncon shells imported from japan, and many 3d printed and pcb parts designed by me. No hot glue, wild shell cuts or wire mess in here. He also has an impeccable customer service, from all the users feedback I had until now.
All that comes at a cost, that I totally understand isn't for everyone.

That being said the gun4ir is first and foremost a diy system, with an active community behind it, and I will keep supporting that side of things for as long as I can. If you have any questions about it, feel free to ask ;)

For the Sinden, I haven't used it myself, but I have tons of users that play competively and have both systems, and say the accuracy is on point, under proper light condition and at the right distance.
I obviously can only rely on what I've heard and saw in their vids, but if I believe them, I'd say both systems are good and have their own sets of avantages and disadvantages.

Ginsonic

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For the Sinden, I haven't used it myself, but I have tons of users that play competively and have both systems, and say the accuracy is on point, under proper light condition and at the right distance.
I obviously can only rely on what I've heard and saw in their vids, but if I believe them, I'd say both systems are good and have their own sets of avantages and disadvantages.

Regarding the Sinden guns, I own both, some Gun4IR guns and two Sinden guns, and to be honest, I really HATE the Sinden white border in any game!
For me it totally destroys the Arcade feeling, that's why I love Gun4IR so much in spite of the higher efforts to build them and in spite of the IR diodes beside the screen  ;)
Thanks JayBee for giving them to us  :applaud: